What does gender mean to you?

[TrailerHitch]

And why does biological identity matter how someone chooses to present socially?

It only matters when you involve others as in a romantic relationship. Then it is a moral duty to your prospective partner to be 100% honest about who you are.

 

[TheF1x3r]

Fascinating.

Why do you suppose someone would treat some differently based on what genitals they have?

What difference does it make socially unless they are wanting to be intimate or procreate with them?

Evolution I suppose. I don't really know, and I'm not sure anyone does (yet). We still don't even understand what makes a person gay, straight or bi.

If I had to put forward a hypothesis though I'd go with: a survival and procreation function.

 

[TheF1x3r]

I don’t think men have any idea of how different their world is than it is for women. I think most men assume that it’s the same but they are so wrong.

The inability of men and women to understand each other is chronicled throughout time. Likewise women don't understand men all too well either.

Really if I was a woman, I would assume that every man I encounter is a potential rapist.

This is one example I would use - a woman is wise to treat every man she meets with a level of caution, but most women don't know that a man also treats every man he meets with level of caution.

I don't live in the USA so I cannot really comment on the racial tensions there, but over here in the UK in most cities you need to keep your eyes open all the time. Most of us end up getting attacked more than once in our lives, more than once a year if you're in a rough city.

 

[TheF1x3r]

The fact is we do react differently to sexes, based on both culture and for personal reasons ie safety.

I think it's deeper than just culture and personal experience, I think it's baked into us on a lower level. Somewhere between the conscious mind and the physical brain, something like how we react to smell.

Like you smell vanilla you don't think about it before you identify it as a sweet smell

But if you smell gasoline then you know it's a industrial smell before you really think about it

If your perceptions identifies a person as being a man or a woman then, between your eyeballs and your conscious brain, you have already constructed beliefs about the person e.g. risk, attractive, safe or dangerous etc

 

[TheF1x3r]

Most red-necks get their knickers in a stew over the fear of being 'caught out' as queer. What they never consider is that they've already met transgender people and never noticed... maybe that's what keeps them awake at night!?

It's hard to fathom why anyone gets so worked up about it. I mean I could understand someones ego taking a hit if, for some reason, they constructed their entire identity around being a heterosexual...

"Me, my father and my father's father have a tradition of being absolutely straight"

 

[Escierto]

It's hard to fathom why anyone gets so worked up about it. I mean I could understand someones ego taking a hit if, for some reason, they constructed their entire identity around being a heterosexual...

"Me, my father and my father's father have a tradition of being absolutely straight"

It’s amusing to think of someone constructing an identity around being heterosexual. For most people it’s just a given whatever they are that they don’t put much thought into. I don’t find men attractive but I don’t spend any time thinking about it.

 

[TheF1x3r]

It’s amusing to think of someone constructing an identity around being heterosexual. For most people it’s just a given whatever they are that they don’t put much thought into. I don’t find men attractive but I don’t spend any time thinking about it.

haha - the thing is that if you knew the person's entire story then the construct would probably make sense (or at least you'd understand how they got there).

 

[Escierto]

haha - the thing is that if you knew the person's entire story then the construct would probably make sense (or at least you'd understand how they got there).

You make a good point. For some people their sexual orientation might be super significant based on their history. That’s the problem with human beings - we are so locked in our own personal history sometimes it’s hard to understand how someone could be so different from oneself. Of course at the same time that’s what makes other people interesting - their differences.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Because they are unaware of what a different world they live in, I don’t think men do enough to assuage the justified fears women have about men. Really if I was a woman, I would assume that every man I encounter is a potential rapist.

Every man is a potential rapist? Geezus you really are a fucking nut case aren't you? So then you perceive yourself as a potential rapist when you are out among women. Awesome for you. Is your girl friend a potential rapist too since she has a cock?

I am far more in control of myself than you are because the thought of rape has never even entered my head.

 

[BrendaD]

Every man is a potential rapist? Geezus you really are a fucking nut case aren't you? So then you perceive yourself as a potential rapist when you are out among women. Awesome for you. Is your girl friend a potential rapist too since she has a cock?

I am far more in control of myself than you are because the thought of rape has never even entered my head.

I think you misunderstood what was meant - not every man, everywhere. But when you are out in public (woman’s perspective here), every man you see, that you don’t know… they are a potential danger. Not that anyone suspects that they all are, or even that there is a rapist in the vicinity at any given time - but certainly one has to pay attention to those around you when out in public.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I think you misunderstood what was meant - not every man, everywhere. But when you are out in public (woman’s perspective here), every man you see, that you don’t know… they are a potential danger. Not that anyone suspects that they all are, or even that there is a rapist in the vicinity at any given time - but certainly one has to pay attention to those around you when out in public.

Okay, so when you are walking in the city and someone of a different race approaches you do you also see them as a potential attacker, mugger, or murderer? Well, because YOU just don't know do you? And now you don't even know if that "woman" may attack and rape you.

 

[AlexBailey]

Like you smell vanilla you don't think about it before you identify it as a sweet smell

But if you smell gasoline then you know it's a industrial smell before you really think about it

If your perceptions identifies a person as being a man or a woman then, between your eyeballs and your conscious brain, you have already constructed beliefs about the person e.g. risk, attractive, safe or dangerous etc

But is any of that actually based on gender or what genitalia someone has?

A short, small-framed guy with a friendly disposition does not elicit the same reaction as a hulking bodybuilder with prison tattoos. The same is true of a similar spectrum of women.

My foster daughter’s mother is a smallish woman but there is something in her demeanor and the look in her eyes that tells me this is someone dangerous - I saw it the first time I met her before I knew anything about her.


I’d say gender identity is far less important for safety considerations than other characteristics, it just so happens that more men are intimidating and pose a greater physical threat because of their stature - not because of their gender.

 

[AlexBailey]

It only matters when you involve others as in a romantic relationship. Then it is a moral duty to your prospective partner to be 100% honest about who you are.

That’s funny. The first transgender woman I knowingly interacted with was during an interview on a morning chat show in the mid 80’s. When the host asked for questions from the audience I raised my hand and asked the guest if she made it a priority to tell potential lovers about her background.

I don’t remember how she worded her answer except that it was nuanced - something to the effect of how it varied by the person and situation but that everyone she’d been with knew before the clothes came off.

 

[stickygirl]

I think you misunderstood what was meant - not every man, everywhere. But when you are out in public (woman’s perspective here), every man you see, that you don’t know… they are a potential danger. Not that anyone suspects that they all are, or even that there is a rapist in the vicinity at any given time - but certainly one has to pay attention to those around you when out in public.

...and he also misquoted Escierto, because he clearly said "If I was a woman..."

I agree with you. It's a perspective men don't really understand nor get a grasp of the pervading nature of the feeling you carry in public.

 

[TrailerHitch]

...and he also misquoted Escierto, because he clearly said "If I was a woman..."

I agree with you. It's a perspective men just don't really understand nor get a grasp of the pervading nature of the feeling you carry in public.

He should not have said "if I was a woman" he has no right to presume what a woman thinks.

I asked my wife if when she is out and about if she perceives every man she sees as a possible rapist/attacker. She said nope. She said she usually pays them little mind unless they stare or do something weird.

Honestly if you are that terrified, arm yourself, pepper spray may be the best choice. At least you won't accidentally kill someone who dares to ask for directions.

 

[Bigboobbabe]

Gender is the outward expression of sex genes.
AMAB have 2 sex genes. One x and one y.
Those genes express gender as male dominant, female dominant or non-binary.
There are spectrums of expression.

AFAB have 2 sex genes. Two x's. They always express gender as female, but there is a spectrum of female.

Gender expression is based on genetic, environment, and other factors (which are often less than honorable).

I believe that in almost all people, the sex is a genetic given. The expression is what changes giving you Gender.

 

[TrailerHitch]

That’s funny. The first transgender woman I knowingly interacted with was during an interview on a morning chat show in the mid 80’s. When the host asked for questions from the audience I raised my hand and asked the guest if she made it a priority to tell potential lovers about her background.

I don’t remember how she worded her answer except that it was nuanced - something to the effect of how it varied by the person and situation but that everyone she’d been with knew before the clothes came off.

If this person is comfortable with who they are why not be honest when you first meet? Why get involved to the point of emotions being involved to spill you still have a penis even though you look like a woman? I just don't understand why being upfront and honest is such a hang up. Unless you need deception to find a man?

 

[stickygirl]

Gender is the outward expression of sex genes.
AMAB have 2 sex genes. One x and one y.
Those genes express gender as male dominant, female dominant or non-binary.
There are spectrums of expression.

AFAB have 2 sex genes. Two x's. They always express gender as female, but there is a spectrum of female.

Gender expression is based on genetic, environment, and other factors (which are often less than honorable).

I believe that in almost all people, the sex is a genetic given. The expression is what changes giving you Gender.

Except that your shorthand AFAB is assigned female at birth - it doesn't always follow that the person doing the assigning got it right. Genetic testing at birth isn't a regular practise. Sorry - I know that's maybe nit-picking but plenty of intersex folks would take issue.

In most other respects, I agree with what you've said.

 

[CD_Bree]

I think too many people make a big deal out of it! You hear everyone's opinions on morality, feelings, right or wrong, etc at the end of the day, we have bigger things to worry about. If someone feels comfortable with the skin they are in, than let it ride! When I dress I feel feminine, when I don't I feel more masculine. Who cares! If someone wants to transition to the opposite gender, the world should mind it own business. Families are torn apart by it for the stupidest reasons. Be glad the trans family member is healthy, don't condemn them. The only place I see any arguments is in professional sports, and thats their problem!

 

[BrendaD]

But is any of that actually based on gender or what genitalia someone has?

A short, small-framed guy with a friendly disposition does not elicit the same reaction as a hulking bodybuilder with prison tattoos. The same is true of a similar spectrum of women.

My foster daughter’s mother is a smallish woman but there is something in her demeanor and the look in her eyes that tells me this is someone dangerous - I saw it the first time I met her before I knew anything about her.


I’d say gender identity is far less important for safety considerations than other characteristics, it just so happens that more men are intimidating and pose a greater physical threat because of their stature - not because of their gender.

100% agree!

 

[BrendaD]

Okay, so when you are walking in the city and someone of a different race approaches you do you also see them as a potential attacker, mugger, or murderer? Well, because YOU just don't know do you? And now you don't even know if that "woman" may attack and rape you.

What does race have to do with it?

 

[AlexBailey]

If this person is comfortable with who they are why not be honest when you first meet? Why get involved to the point of emotions being involved to spill you still have a penis even though you look like a woman? I just don't understand why being upfront and honest is such a hang up. Unless you need deception to find a man?

Do you always lead an introduction with the status of your genitals? Is that appropriate in the beginning of a conversation?

“Hi, I’m 8” hard or soft, uncut and fertile, the name’s Richard.”

Really though, at what point does it matter?

I once had a girl ask me, “What if we fell in true love, that I was the one you always wanted to be with but you’d never seen me naked. Then when we finally are together you discover I have a penis?” - (paraphrasing because it was over thirty years ago)

I really thought about it and decided no, other things were more important to me - of course that’s me. My answer is going to be different than someone else’s - but that’s my truth.

Your truth will be your own, and like many others you may get stuck on the concept of not being able to fall in love unless you’ve already seen the other person in their birthday suit.

As things turned out I once broke up with a long term lover once she decided she wasn’t interested in having kids. Before having a family that would have been a dealbreaker for me to partner with a trans woman but now that I’ve been there - done that, I would have no problem with someone who is infertile - in fact it would be a plus.

 

[TheF1x3r]

Of course at the same time that’s what makes other people interesting - their differences.

Exactly; that's why it's difficult to watch the whole gender/culture war thing that people are so up in arms about.

The T-man I met at the weekend was cool to talk to, he roasted me real good. He had a leg injury/disability crutch and it fell over and he asked me to pick it up so I bent at knees and grabbed but I was like "oh jeese my f'ing legs" (sports injuries) and then he was like "Oh I'm sorry are YOUR legs sore?"

 

[TrailerHitch]

Do you always lead an introduction with the status of your genitals? Is that appropriate in the beginning of a conversation?

“Hi, I’m 8” hard or soft, uncut and fertile, the name’s Richard.”

Really though, at what point does it matter?

I once had a girl ask me, “What if we fell in true love, that I was the one you always wanted to be with but you’d never seen me naked. Then when we finally are together you discover I have a penis?” - (paraphrasing because it was over thirty years ago)

I really thought about it and decided no, other things were more important to me - of course that’s me. My answer is going to be different than someone else’s - but that’s my truth.

Your truth will be your own, and like many others you may get stuck on the concept of not being able to fall in love unless you’ve already seen the other person in their birthday suit.

As things turned out I once broke up with a long term lover once she decided she wasn’t interested in having kids. Before having a family that would have been a dealbreaker for me to partner with a trans woman but now that I’ve been there - done that, I would have no problem with someone who is infertile - in fact it would be a plus.

No, and you are being ridiculous. It is 100% obvious to any person, male, female, or otherwise that I am a man. Because that is obvious there is no need to say anything about my genitals. I am not a woman portraying myself as a man, I am not a man portraying myself as a woman.

And the problem you and others are having here is you only see it through your perspective. That everyone will be okay with it if you already have an emotional connection. Myself, I would want to know before the relationship got to deep so I could make up my mind based on the truth, not a deception. I know you won't like that concept and that's fine. I'm not at all saying that there would never be a circumstance where I wouldn't continue the relationship if everything else was good. But deception is never good for any relationship.

On top of which let's say you are dating someone, and they have no idea you are a transgender, and weeks into the relationship you tell them. How can you possibly gauge their reaction? It could be anything from acceptance to a violence against you. It seems awfully risky and dangerous, especially if sexual play had already occurred, such as you giving them head. Violence would absolutely not be my reaction, but I could see where it might be for others.

 

[TheF1x3r]

Every man is a potential rapist? Geezus you really are a fucking nut case aren't you? So then you perceive yourself as a potential rapist when you are out among women. Awesome for you. Is your girl friend a potential rapist too since she has a cock?

I am far more in control of myself than you are because the thought of rape has never even entered my head.

It's not a belief that every man is a rapist, it's a fear that every man could be a rapist. It's accurate, most men are physically capable of it.

The vast majority of men aren't rapists... but you only need come across one to ruin your life.

Not all snakes are venomous, but you don't use your hands to check.