What thinly-veiled hate, epitomized in one quote, looks like

[RoryN]

Oregon bakery refuses to make same-sex wedding cake

GRESHAM, Ore. — The Oregon Department of Justice is looking into a complaint that a Gresham bakery refused to make a wedding cake for a same sex marriage.

It started on Jan. 17 when a mother and daughter showed up at Sweet Cakes by Melissa looking for the perfect wedding cake.

"My first question is what's the wedding date," said owner Aaron Klein. "My next question is bride and groom's name ... the girl giggled a little bit and said it's two brides."

Klein apologized to the women and told them he and his wife do not make cakes for same-sex marriages. Klein said the women were disgusted and walked out.

"I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God," said Klein. "A man should leave his mother and father and cling to his wife ... that to me is the beginning of marriage."

At the advice of their attorney, the women are not speaking to the media, but they have plenty of support. Numerous people have blasted the Klein's on the internet.

What Klein wants to make clear is that he and his wife do not hate homosexuals.

"They can buy my stuff," said Klein. "I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine."

What is not fine, according to Klein, is a marriage between people of the same sex. He will always stand by that conviction.

"I'd rather have my kids see their dad stand up for what he believes in then to see him bow down because one person complained."

ORS 659A.403 is the law in question. In short, it prohibits discrimination in places of public accommodation. Klein and his wife have two weeks to respond to the Oregon Department of Justice's inquiry into what happened.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50679304/ns/us_news-life/

 

[Busybody]

where do you see HATE?

 

[muffguy]

not saying i'm against gays getting married but why is it this shop owner has to bow to a segment of the population with whom he (or she) disagrees ? What happened to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" ? If that segment of the population does not like it don't patronize the business, not call the government to come beat the shop owner down. The government will never,ever be able to make everyone "equal"..... thats a pipe dream.

 

[Busybody]

where do you see HATE?

 

[gardenia19]

where do you see HATE?

Probably in the refusal to provide their service because of their sexual orientation.
eta: and don't forget the "them", as if they're not people like the lovely Kleins.

 

[islandman]

Evidently they can't buy your stuff, Mr. Klein. You don't want to sell it to them.

 

[RoryN]

not saying i'm against gays getting married but why is it this shop owner has to bow to a segment of the population with whom he (or she) disagrees ?

ORS 659A.403 is the law in question. In short, it prohibits discrimination in places of public accommodation.

.....

 

[blulilacgrl]

Sorry but just because you don't like what someone is doing and just because you choose not to support it... that doesn't mean you hate them. Heck I don't agree with half of what most people do but I don't hate them. I just think they are sadly misguided and pity them.

 

[RoryN]

Sorry but just because you don't like what someone is doing and just because you choose not to support it... that doesn't mean you hate them. Heck I don't agree with half of what most people do but I don't hate them. I just think they are sadly misguided and pity them.

It depends on what they're doing.

If someone is poking you in the face with their finger and you don't like it, it isn't hate.

If they're simply trying to exist, and one wants to discriminate against them, it is.

 

[Liar]

not saying i'm against gays getting married but why is it this shop owner has to bow to a segment of the population with whom he (or she) disagrees ? What happened to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" ? If that segment of the population does not like it don't patronize the business, not call the government to come beat the shop owner down. The government will never,ever be able to make everyone "equal"..... thats a pipe dream.

This is why he can't legally refuse service to a gay couple.

However, he could probably get away with insisting that all his wedding cakes have bride-and-groom marzipan figures on top. The law can force him to not discriminate. The law can't force him to sell a cake design he doesn't want to.

He'd still be a douche, but within the legal bounds of non discriminating.

 

[blulilacgrl]

It depends on what they're doing.

If someone is poking you in the face with their finger and you don't like it, it isn't hate.

If they're simply trying to exist, and one wants to discriminate against them, it is.

So should he have to sell a cake to a couple of white supremacists? If they wanted a cake topper of a bride & groom in white sheets, you are saying he should be forced to make the cake?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

So basically, the money of gays and lesbians is all good for Klein to take as long as they don't ask him to craft an edible symbol of marriage.

...but they can order everything else! In fact, they're more than welcome to order everything else!

Wonder what Jesus would think about that extremely convenient technicality in homeboy's worship of money?

 

[RoryN]

So should he have to sell a cake to a couple of white supremacists? If they wanted a cake topper of a bride & groom in white sheets, you are saying he should be forced to make the cake?

Are you saying that this would be equal to depicting a gay couple?

Interesting.

 

[about_average]

However, he could probably get away with insisting that all his wedding cakes have bride-and-groom marzipan figures on top. The law can force him to not discriminate. The law can't force him to sell a cake design he doesn't want to.

He'd still be a douche, but within the legal bounds of non discriminating.[/QUOTE]And she could say it's a double wedding and wants two couples on it, then just remove the two grooms. :D

 

[muffguy]

what i am suggesting is they go find a different bakery. Same way if I don't like certain tv show I change the channel, not make the station put on only the shows or programs I like. If we keep making laws to make others agree with every variation in life soon we won't be able to do anything because it will offend someone,somehow.......

 

[blulilacgrl]

Are you saying that this would be equal to depicting a gay couple?

Interesting.

Really? I mean really? That's what you took from what I said? Where did I say they were the same? Okay for those of you who can't understand an argument... No I am not saying that depicting a group of white supremacists is the same as a gay couple.

I am trying to make the point that as a business owner, you have the right to decide who you will do business with. And you can choose to do this without hating the person. I don't hate anybody, but I certainly disagree with many and think they are misguided and pathetic.

Your point has been that a business owner has to accept any job no matter who is funding it. Or did I misunderstand your point?

 

[RoryN]

what i am suggesting is they go find a different bakery.

I see.

May I request that you go find a different forum, then. Perhaps Stormfront?

I am trying to make the point that as a business owner, you have the right to decide who you will do business with.

I suggest you examine the law that I've already posted twice.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So should he have to sell a cake to a couple of white supremacists? If they wanted a cake topper of a bride & groom in white sheets, you are saying he should be forced to make the cake?

It's the "protected class" argument once again.

You cannot discriminate on people based on factors they have little to no control over (age, sex, race, maritial status) but you can discriminate based on actions (people who choose to be white supremacists, pick their nose in public, vote Republican, or other revolting actions).

Most people nowadays recognize that sexual orientation is not a "choice" and is therefore a protected class. (If you believe it is one, please share with us the decision-process on how you chose to be your orientation).

 

[RobDownSouth]

Really? I mean really? That's what you took from what I said? Where did I say they were the same? Okay for those of you who can't understand an argument... No I am not saying that depicting a group of white supremacists is the same as a gay couple.

I am trying to make the point that as a business owner, you have the right to decide who you will do business with. And you can choose to do this without hating the person. I don't hate anybody, but I certainly disagree with many and think they are misguided and pathetic.

Your point has been that a business owner has to accept any job no matter who is funding it. Or did I misunderstand your point?

Lester Maddox tried to use that argument in the 1960s to deny black people service at his chicken restaurant. He was laughed out of court. That was almost 50 years ago.

 

[blulilacgrl]

I suggest you examine the law that I've already posted twice.

Fine, you should have the right to choose who you do business with. Just remember exactly what that means. It means that even those people who have truly horrendous views and practices... well they are protected too.

And no offense, I believe that you were making the connection that refusal of service meant hate. Is that what you are saying?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[RoryN]

Fine, you should have the right to choose who you do business with. Just remember exactly what that means. It means that even those people who have truly horrendous views and practices... well they are protected too.

See RDS's remarks.

And no offense, I believe that you were making the connection that refusal of service meant hate.

What thinly-veiled hate, epitomized in one quote, looks like

 

[RobDownSouth]

Fine, you should have the right to choose who you do business with. Just remember exactly what that means. It means that even those people who have truly horrendous views and practices... well they are protected too.

And no offense, I believe that you were making the connection that refusal of service meant hate. Is that what you are saying?

Refusing service based on what people are (black/white, single/married, Christian/Jew, gay/straight) is hate, your attempts to rationalize it otherwise notwithstanding.

 

[Liar]

So should he have to sell a cake to a couple of white supremacists?

Yes.

If they wanted a cake topper of a bride & groom in white sheets, you are saying he should be forced to make the cake?

No.

 

[blulilacgrl]

See RDS's remarks.

I am assuming this is the quote you are referring to "They can buy my stuff," said Klein. "I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine."

So explain how that equals hate?

Look I am not saying the guy isn't a douchebag. I'm not saying that the guy isn't wrong. What I am questioning is that assertion that he hates.

Explain how you get that he hates. If is obvious that he has taken a strong stand on a political issue. It is obvious that he is wiling to risk his business for it. But I didn't see anywhere in that statement or the story that he hates homosexuals.

Just that he disagrees with gay marriage. That is not necessarily the same thing.