Authenticity Revisited

AG31

Literotica Guru
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A few weeks ago I launched a thread in Authors' Hangout about authenticity. The responses helped refine my thinking. Here are my thoughts as they stand now. I had wanted to post this as an essay over on the story side, but it's not long enough. :-(

Note: This essay is about a quality that I have labeled authenticity. I'm perfectly aware that there are many other legitimate definitions for authenticity (e.g., verisimilitude, true to life). I'm just using it to talk about a quality in writing that I find interesting.

For the purposes of this essay, authenticity is a quality in a story such that it seems as if the author were writing from within, from the heart or from the viscera. It sounds like a story the writer had to tell. For that reason, it can be compelling even if it is far away from the reader's preferred erotic categories. Perhaps this characteristic is associated with a pouring out of the story. Some stories, like Pleasure and Pain and some sections of @madelinemasoch's writing tumble forth like water over rocks. Some, like Oz Beach Boy & Allesandra Rampolla, by @MyBareTorso, stream forth steadily. Others, like much of @ElectricBlue's writing, flow gracefully.

I'm open to the idea that stories without that pouring forth quality can be authentic, but the two stories that I've liked the best, The Story of O, by Pauline Reage, and Enslaving Eli, by Billierosie, don't pour forth. They are more static, formal, as my own writing has been characterized. Of course an author probably can't identify authenticity in their own work, but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have it, even though I know for an absolute fact that every sentence, with a few notable exceptions, has come from my viscera. They are all directed toward arousal, my own.

There are a number of things that authenticity is not:

It is not a quality of the relationship between the author and the work. It's a quality of what that relationship seems like to the reader. I expect a talented writer could generate that quality while remaining completely detached. Here I have to include a quote posted by @SyleusSnow: "The most important thing is authenticity. Once you can fake that, you’ve got it made."

It is not a quality required for "good" writing. In my experience most good books don't have it. Although I think it is more commonly found in first books.

Not all stories that sound authentic are "good" stories. Most of the writing is otherwise unremarkable, and some is just plain bad.

Authenticity has nothing to do with verisimilitude. It can be found in the wildest Sci Fi or whatever.

It has nothing to do with believable characters. It can be found in the simplest of simple erotica, with no attention at all to plot and character.
 
I have to ask for some clarification, seeing myself mentioned here. Are you saying you found a quality of authenticity in my writing? Are you simply talking about the flow and speed of the prose?
 
I have to ask for some clarification, seeing myself mentioned here. Are you saying you found a quality of authenticity in my writing? Are you simply talking about the flow and speed of the prose?
I'm starting to think I'm stupid, I'm still not grasping what she's going on about.
 
You are misunderstanding the concept to verisimilitude. It does not mean true to REAL life. Its literal meaning is "similar to the truth." A work of fantasy or science fiction that creates a plausible world without internal contradictions can have as much verisimilitude as a naturalistic novel.
 
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For the purposes of this essay, authenticity is a quality in a story such that it seems as if the author were writing from within, from the heart or from the viscera. It sounds like a story the writer had to tell. For that reason, it can be compelling even if it is far away from the reader's preferred erotic categories. Perhaps this characteristic is associated with a pouring out of the story. Some stories, like Pleasure and Pain and some sections of @madelinemasoch's writing tumble forth like water over rocks. Some, like Oz Beach Boy & Allesandra Rampolla, by @MyBareTorso, stream forth steadily. Others, like much of @ElectricBlue's writing, flow gracefully.

I'm open to the idea that stories without that pouring forth quality can be authentic, but the two stories that I've liked the best, The Story of O, by Pauline Reage, and Enslaving Eli, by Billierosie, don't pour forth. They are more static, formal, as my own writing has been characterized. Of course an author probably can't identify authenticity in their own work, but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have it, even though I know for an absolute fact that every sentence, with a few notable exceptions, has come from my viscera. They are all directed toward arousal, my own.
This makes me think it's about understanding the rhythm of language, and using it.
 
As an amateur scribbler, the stories that have made me feel privileged to read, better than any signed book, or handshake are the ones where I felt their pulse and looked into their eyes. Woo... I'm getting carried away.

I'm probably talking twaddle.
You're not. I think that's exactly what AG31 means - where you can see the passion and heartbeat coming through in the writing, regardless of the competence of that writing).

Your writing is authentic because you believe in it. I don't think you could ever write in a category that did nothing for you, "Just to see if you could."
 
OK, I'll start with my usual statement. I'm not an expert, not an experienced trained writer. I am the very essence of an amateur scribbler.
Anything I say, should be treated as such...

Authenticity:
For me it's not about reality, or the concept of. It's the nature of the story being told.
Developed characters have personalities, and throughout the story, those traits stay true to the assigned character.
Characters can and do grow, change their opinions on certain things. That is growth, allowed learning.

For the story to feel real, authentic, then the characters have to fallow their paths. Their actions must resonate from their personalities.
Who and what they become must have a plausible trail, a history that lead them to that particular place.
Your characters must make mistakes, err in judgement, discover, or uncover things new to them.
For me, that is the essence of authenticity...

Cagivagurl
 
I'm starting to think I'm stupid, I'm still not grasping what she's going on about.

You're not stupid. I'm confused, too. But I don't think that's necessarily AG31's fault. This is a complicated subject and authors and readers have diametrically opposed viewpoints about it.

I think verisimilitude, which MelissaBaby describes very well above, is what matters, not realism or authenticity. I don't really care whether the story is an authentic expression of the author's true feelings or experiences. I just want a good story. A good story can be unrealistic or fantastic so long as it doesn't ask the reader to suspend TOO MUCH disbelief and adheres to certain basic standards of internal consistency.
 
Careful darling - people will talk!
When EB and I co-authored a story, there was more going on than similar styles. We both had a clear idea of our characters - we believed in them.

I won't disagree - you raise some valid points: the characters have to remain consistent. But how much easier that task becomes when they are in your head, full fleshed out, with all their weaknesses, dislikes, humour. All the author then has to do is ask them to step into the storyline you've conjured. Better still, when the characters spring surprises on the writer and steer things for themselves. Mine often make jokes that can only come in the moment, but when Vicki brushes the leaves from the gravel path and came out with those words, I was like 'Fuck me, where did that come from?'

Sometimes details draw you in... like a finger stroking fabric! I listened to a podcast today where it was mentioned that when you have caught the scent of person on the red carpet, you've enjoyed an intimacy that only comes from being in the same space. If I can be intimate with the reader my job is done.

But I could still be out on a limb. The view's nice though. :)
The stories that grab me, and they come from different categories. They are the ones who have characters who I can imagine... Picture in my mind, hear their voices.
The reason is, they have been so beautifully crafted and created. Their actions sit well with how I imagine they would tackle the situation they find themselves in.
I love to become one with the depicted characters, take on their personality.
Where I get thrown out of a story is when the action doesn't fit character.
That's where the authenticity becomes important. The characters must remain true to themselves...
They can walk down different paths, learn something that makes a new reality possible, but it has to seem plausible.
I have been criticized for locals to be wrong. That road isn't SH75. keep it authentic...
Changing a local doesn't reduce authenticity. Unless you're drawing street mapps. Perhaps it spoiled the story for them because they were familiar with the local. For the other 99% of readers they would never know.
The authenticity comes from always taking SH75 when travelling in that direction in the story. It becomes an integral part of the plot.

Cagivagurl
 
They are more static, formal, as my own writing has been characterized.
It seems a little over the top to footnote or quote a single word, but I've decided thanks are in order. Thanks to @ElectricBlue for actually characterizing my writing as "static," (I took it in a good way). And to @RainyDayPen for using the word "formal" to characterize her own writing. I recognized it and adopted it. So I'm the one that characterized my writing as formal. :)
 
The stories that grab me, and they come from different categories. They are the ones who have characters who I can imagine... Picture in my mind, hear their voices.
The reason is, they have been so beautifully crafted and created. Their actions sit well with how I imagine they would tackle the situation they find themselves in.
I love to become one with the depicted characters, take on their personality.
Where I get thrown out of a story is when the action doesn't fit character.
That's where the authenticity becomes important. The characters must remain true to themselves...
They can walk down different paths, learn something that makes a new reality possible, but it has to seem plausible.
I have been criticized for locals to be wrong. That road isn't SH75. keep it authentic...
Changing a local doesn't reduce authenticity. Unless you're drawing street mapps. Perhaps it spoiled the story for them because they were familiar with the local. For the other 99% of readers they would never know.
The authenticity comes from always taking SH75 when travelling in that direction in the story. It becomes an integral part of the plot.

Cagivagurl
I like the word "plausible" rather than "authentic" because the definition of "authentic" centers around words like "real", "actual", and true to some known facts. As for "passion" in the writing, I believe any successful author can simulate that by their choice of words, and if so, who would be able to tell if it was real or just good writing?

For me, what makes a story plausible is exactly what you state about characters and their actions. I can't finish a story where the shy girl turns in to a sex starved woman in the space of a few heartbeats. "Real" people almost never do that, and unless the author has given her character the background to make that rapid change at least possible, it comes off as just the way the author got to the sex scene rather than something that could possibly happen. If the reader can't draw the picture in their mind, it's not plausible and not an example of good writing.
 
I like the word "plausible" rather than "authentic" because the definition of "authentic" centers around words like "real", "actual", and true to some known facts. As for "passion" in the writing, I believe any successful author can simulate that by their choice of words, and if so, who would be able to tell if it was real or just good writing?

For me, what makes a story plausible is exactly what you state about characters and their actions. I can't finish a story where the shy girl turns in to a sex starved woman in the space of a few heartbeats. "Real" people almost never do that, and unless the author has given her character the background to make that rapid change at least possible, it comes off as just the way the author got to the sex scene rather than something that could possibly happen. If the reader can't draw the picture in their mind, it's not plausible and not an example of good writing.
I feel differently about the word "Authentic."
This is only my opinion.
Authenticity can come from descriptions of people or locations. Some inhabitants of specific areas have dialects, and idiosyncrasies. If the story is searching for authenticity, those characteristics must exist in the characters...,
We have areas of NZ, where dialects are recognisable. So the characters must have those.

For a characters actions within a work of fiction to be authentic. They have to be real for the characters persona....
It doesn't have to depict real events, just real to the character...Well written stories contain well developed characters, heros, villains, side people. The actions assigned to them must feel real.... That they are capable of said actions...
The story then has plausibility, and authenticity....
If the story portrays those things, then for me it feels real. If I can imagine the dialogue as possible, then it's got me hooked.'

Cagivagurl
 
I have to ask for some clarification, seeing myself mentioned here. Are you saying you found a quality of authenticity in my writing? Are you simply talking about the flow and speed of the prose?
I found a quality of authenticity in parts of your writing.
 
From your outline it sounds elusive and by its nature difficult to define.
Indeed. That's why I've cycled around to try again.
Does 'honesty' have bearing, both in terms of both portrayal and style?
Only emotional honesty. And even then it is a perceived quality. It doesn't have to be a true reflection of the author's state of mind.
As an amateur scribbler, the stories that have made me feel privileged to read, better than any signed book, or handshake are the ones where I felt their pulse and looked into their eyes.
I'm guessing if I had that reaction to a story I'd label it "authentic." Not quite sure, though. I'll keep watch.
 
You are misunderstanding the concept to verisimilitude. It does not mean true to REAL life. Its literal meaning is "similar to the truth." A work of fantasy or science fiction that creates a plausible world without internal contradictions can have as much verisimilitude as a naturalistic novel.
Well, however you define it, it's different than the quality I'm calling authenticity.
 
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