Is it stealing, or is it my own story?

[Socock98]

Hello!

Today I have some questions regarding the debate Inspiration vs Plagiarism (or copying, stealing, etc. someone's work).
First off, I'd like to say that I am a rather new and unexperienced writer, I will only write one story at a time because it's the best I can do. But, while I am writing my story I will get ideas for new stories, new characters, plots and everything. And those ideas will "turn me on", which will lead me to search for stories on Literotica regarding the same topic(s). And unexpectedly, since I am not a genius writer with crazy new ideas, there will be at least one story which is similar to the one I thought of.
That's where my initial question comes into play, since as I am reading these stories I will notice most of my ideas are similar to the other authors, and I will also get new ideas from reading their stories. And although those new ideas won't be exactly the same as what is presented in their story, it will share similarities. And even when I go on my day-to-day life, suddenly a new idea will pop up in my head but I will question it, thinking "Is it really my idea, or just a slightly different idea from what I've already read?"

This is getting me all confused, and that is why I am turning to you for some guidance!
First, do you think that writing a story that is similar (but still a bit different) to story(ies) already existing is stealing/copying other people's work? Or since it is still the fruit of my imagination, it is my own story?
Even if it is my own story, do you think it is worth writing? Even though there are similar stories which are much better written.

I know a lot of authors (even famous authors) get their inspirations from reading other stories, but I believe they still make the story their own by adding new elements and intrigues. But what if I don't have anything new to add to my story? It stays the same slice of life story than the rest, with similar hardships, obstacles and rewards.

I'm really questioning the ethics behind this, and I don't want to be told something like 'This is just xxx's story, but worse.", nor do I want to steal or copy anybody's work! I want to create my own stories, with my own characters, but sometimes I feel like I got all my ideas from reading other people's work and I am not creating anything new.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you can help me!

 

[EmilyMiller]

It’s a somewhat complicated area. Lifting someone else’s work, premise, plot, characters is clearly plagiarism, even if you make some superficial changes.

But no one owns the themes in their stories. You can write a story about short mythical beings living in an unspoiled rural idyl and then going on a quest in which they encounter other species and the wider world. Maybe avoid rings of power.

Ideas aren’t owned by anyone. The execution of them is covered by copyright. Inspiration is fine, slavish copying isn’t.

Emily

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Even if it is my own story, do you think it is worth writing? Even though there are similar stories which are much better written.

Yes, absolutely. There would be a lot less literature in the world if every author had to be better than what came before. How many crappy vampire romances did people write after Twilight got popular?

First, do you think that writing a story that is similar (but still a bit different) to story(ies) already existing is stealing/copying other people's work? Or since it is still the fruit of my imagination, it is my own story?

The test I use is to describe the similarities between my story and its inspiration and then ask how many other stories match that description.

E.g., "Femdom shoe fetish sex including CFNM, shoe worship, cum eating, and cunnilingus"? That's my Her First Foot Boy but it's also Dance by defiant_1 and Nothing More Gratifying by MarthaD and Nylon Femdom by blkNYLONS and any number of other stories. So that's fine.

I'll also point out that plagiarism is a matter of citation. So where the resemblance is particularly explicit, I include an afterword explaining what inspired me and what I changed and why I did that. See A 7 Train Stiletto Show (750 Words) for an example.

 

[12oclocktales]

I’m going to write a murder mystery.
The murder weapon is a gun. Oh, wait, must be a million stories with that.
It will take place in a dark alley at night. There’s another million stories.
A guy will shoot dead his wife’s illicit lover. Jeez, must be two million stories with that.

Point being: the same stories are told over and over and over, and only if my story has the exact same gun, the exact same alley and time, the exact same incident given in the exact same way in detail as one of those other stories, only then might stealing be considered. At least that’s my opinion.

 

[AlinaX]

I was accused recently of stealing someone's idea, which was quite funny because I'd deliberately chosen a bunch of tropes I must have seen dozens of times by different authors. I didn't consciously copy any one of them, but it's almost funny that someone thinks I did.

 

[intim8]

I don't think there is a bright line that marks where inspiration ends and plagiarism starts. One one end of the spectrum, a basic idea, like two people have sex, ils clearly not ownable. On the other end, cutting and pasting someone else's story whole into the submission box clearly is plagiarism.

Take a more specific idea, like a couple has sex in a car going through a car wash. There's probably that story on here somewhere, but maybe only one (yeah, right). If you do it, just using that one idea (feel free to "steal" it from me), I would not consider that plagiarism. But embellish it more, if the original story had them in the car going through the wash as a dare, or because they somehow got trapped in it, and you copy that, you're getting closer.

Add details of who the people are, their personality quirks and how they build up to doing the deed, then if you copy those you're getting a lot closer. When do you cross over? I think it can only be a gut judgement.

A specific example I have right now. My favorite story ever here is about a young couple who haven't had sex yet, but are getting close. They stumble upon a small pond in the woods and dip their toes in it. Then an older couple comes along, strip completely, and wade in.

This couple tells them about the "nymph" of the pond, and how she thrives on people loving each other in the water. She demands that all swimming in the pond is fully nude, that everyone respect everyone else and the trees and animals in the woods around the pond. The older couple tells the younger ones that they knew their parents, both sets of them, and that back in the day, the parents were quite performative about making their offerings of love to the nymph.

The young couple decide to go with it and have their first time on a flat topped rock jutting out of the water. The whole story was about this pond and the spirit in it and of it, as well as these two people being inspired to initimacy by it.

I want to use this idea of the pond and the spirit of it in one of my stories as a minor part of a much larger series. I found the idea really inspiring. I don't want to base a whole story on it, just use it as a plot device, as a background and catalyst for a few parts of what happens in the story.

I could surely "get away with" just using it. But it doesn't feel right. So I sent the author a PM asking for his blessing to use it. If he says no, I won't. If he doesn't respond, I will probably use it, but if I use it, I will credit him as inspiration in an author's note. I probably have no obligation to do so, but it is courtesy at least. Just the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, this author abruptly stopped all activity on the site a few years ago. I hope he just decided to stop writing here, and that nothing happend to him (or her, I don't really know). And I've gotten no response after a few days.

 

[lustychimera]

Don't worry about it even a little bit. Ideas are completely worthless.

On different forums, I'll see new writers coveting their ideas like a dragon guarding is treasure. "Without giving too much away, here's my premise for..."

And the older crowd is just tossing all theirs out like they're throwing parade candy.

It's all about the execution of that idea. The idea is worthless until you develop it into a creation, and then *those( specific characters and environments that you create--as in the proper nouns--are what's protected under copyright. There's a bit more to it, but that's the gist.

Every idea is totally up for grabs, free and clear. Two people can start with the exact same premise, write it in their own ways, and when they're done, they'll be completely different stories.

And even specific creations can fall into these very gray Fair Use laws which allow use as long as it's "transformative," which is vague af but essentially means that you add something of value to their work, and that content also needs to be "noncommercial."

But that Fair Use stuff is like HarryXDraco buttbaby fanfic, not lifting a rough outline like what you're taking about, which is totally free and clear. If you really want to just be nice, you can give a shoutout to the author who you lifted the premise from.

Also, I don't think there is a such thing as a novel idea. I think we're all just mixing and matching the pieces of other people's collages into our own "original" collage. If you write the story in your own way, it'll be different. If it isn't, it's your writing skills that are lacking, not your ideas.

 

[Socock98]

Thank you everyone! I found your answers to be very helpful.

I am obviously not going to take any characters, or places, or anything from anyone else's story. I was more afraid of stealing the 'general idea' of the story, or the different plot points. I probably should have given an example in my first message, but here it is now :

Lately, I have been attracted to the story between student and teacher, where the student pursue the teacher, but the teacher tries to refuse, eventually failing to do so because of the student's persistance and their own attraction to them. I was starting to think about the different elements that would come up during their love affair, and I of course thought of the basics : risk of getting caught, actually getting caught and dealing with, what happens when student graduates, ...
All the stories I read on this theme talked about at least one, if not all, of these elements and I was scared that including them in my own story would be considered 'copying' their works. I especially found one on this topic recently that I really enjoyed, and I found it to be very well-written, which made me think my own story might be unnecessary because it won't ever be as good as this one.

Now, in my story I was already thinking of breaching these topics in a different way than the other authors, the way they start their relationship, and how they handle it would be all me (even if there could be some similarity at some points without copy/pasting anything, for example the reason the teacher refuses the student would be 'We can't, you're my student', it isn't new, it's been said in other stories but it is the main reason so I can't exactly go around it). Even the story I really enjoyed, there are some elements I disliked and I thought 'my characters wouldn't do that, or say that'.

In the end, given all your answers, I do not think I am stealing nor copying anyone. I am just using a similar trope, while making it my own.

 

[Britva415]

I believe they still make the story their own by adding new elements and intrigues. But what if I don't have anything new to add to my story? It stays the same slice of life story than the rest, with similar hardships, obstacles and rewards.

If you copied their words, it's plagiarism. If you didn't change the names, settings, specific plotting and pacing of the scenes, it's almost certainly plagiarism.

If you're inspired by a plot and write something similar in your own words, it's probably fine. Unless there's something so unique to the story that your version clearly wouldn't have been written if it hadn't been for exposure to the original one. For example, someone can't rewrite the plot of, say, The Da Vinci Code in their own words. That particular plot is that unique.

When you read the original story which inspired you, was there something completely novel about it which you've never seen anywhere else ever? Something which was clearly that author's original idea? Don't copy it.

But most stories can be repurposed or reimagined, because they're already riffs on a theme. The saying is that there are something like only seven stories humanity has ever produced.

You're going to have to use your own judgement, and tune in to the conscience in your head and really listen to whether it's telling you rationalizations.

when I go on my day-to-day life, suddenly a new idea will pop up in my head but I will question it, thinking "Is it really my idea, or just a slightly different idea from what I've already read?"

As a new, naïve writer, you're probably just not very likely to come up with something completely original, so, I think you can probably lighten up. And it's fine. Even professional published commercial writers are selling unoriginal stuff all the time and not getting sued, you know?

 

[CockSparrow]

Many, many years ago, I attended a two-day symposium on the short story. The prof who chaired the event began Day One with the observation that there are only seven different story plots. And he rattled them off. All other stories are variations on those seven. 'But don't fret,' he said. 'It's not the story that matters. It's how you tell it.' (Just think how many times 'Romeo and Juliet' has been told. And retold.)

Now... stop wasting time at the AH, and go and work on your story-telling skills.

Good luck.

 

[samhasstories]

Now... stop wasting time at the AH, and go and work on your story-telling skills.

Should put a post-it to this effect right in the center of my laptop screen.

 

[Not2Pervy]

I think most of us don’t worry about unintentionally copying others too much because our memories for the details of a story we’ve read aren’t that good. I couldn’t copy someone else’s story unless I have it open beside me while I write.

 

[StillStunned]

If James Cameron could make Avatar without being sued by Disney, I wouldn't worry too much about accusations of plagiarism.

 

[NightPorter]

Rebel Moon is a blatant rip off of not only Star Wars and Seven Samurai. While it might be a lazy script standing in the shadow of much better movies, it still doesn't cross the line into plagiarism. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Hello!

Today I have some questions regarding the debate Inspiration vs Plagiarism (or copying, stealing, etc. someone's work).
First off, I'd like to say that I am a rather new and unexperienced writer, I will only write one story at a time because it's the best I can do. But, while I am writing my story I will get ideas for new stories, new characters, plots and everything. And those ideas will "turn me on", which will lead me to search for stories on Literotica regarding the same topic(s). And unexpectedly, since I am not a genius writer with crazy new ideas, there will be at least one story which is similar to the one I thought of.
That's where my initial question comes into play, since as I am reading these stories I will notice most of my ideas are similar to the other authors, and I will also get new ideas from reading their stories. And although those new ideas won't be exactly the same as what is presented in their story, it will share similarities. And even when I go on my day-to-day life, suddenly a new idea will pop up in my head but I will question it, thinking "Is it really my idea, or just a slightly different idea from what I've already read?"

This is getting me all confused, and that is why I am turning to you for some guidance!
First, do you think that writing a story that is similar (but still a bit different) to story(ies) already existing is stealing/copying other people's work? Or since it is still the fruit of my imagination, it is my own story?
Even if it is my own story, do you think it is worth writing? Even though there are similar stories which are much better written.

I know a lot of authors (even famous authors) get their inspirations from reading other stories, but I believe they still make the story their own by adding new elements and intrigues. But what if I don't have anything new to add to my story? It stays the same slice of life story than the rest, with similar hardships, obstacles and rewards.

I'm really questioning the ethics behind this, and I don't want to be told something like 'This is just xxx's story, but worse.", nor do I want to steal or copy anybody's work! I want to create my own stories, with my own characters, but sometimes I feel like I got all my ideas from reading other people's work and I am not creating anything new.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you can help me!

Why, I just wrote a whole essay on plagiarism! What timing. https://literotica.com/s/we-need-to-talk-about-plagiarism

My take is that you don’t need to necessarily add anything new, as long as what you write is yours. Very few things are truly new; at best, they’re novel. But there’s nothing wrong with that, either. A well-executed standard is still well executed. And on an amateur site? That's rarer than you might think. Do your best, and that will be good enough.

 

[ElectricBlue]

In the end, given all your answers, I do not think I am stealing nor copying anyone. I am just using a similar trope, while making it my own.

Yes, that's exactly what you're doing, and writing in your own words. You've been inspired by those stories, just like the rest of us. It's plagiarism if you lift someone else's words and copy them, word for word. You can't plagiarise a general story idea.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Don't worry about it even a little bit. Ideas are completely worthless.

On different forums, I'll see new writers coveting their ideas like a dragon guarding is treasure. "Without giving too much away, here's my premise for..."

And the older crowd is just tossing all theirs out like they're throwing parade candy.

There have been a couple of times when somebody's written a story idea that I'd had in my head for years, and my first reaction has been something like "oh thank fuck now I don't need to write that one!"

It's all about the execution of that idea. The idea is worthless until you develop it into a creation, and then *those( specific characters and environments that you create--as in the proper nouns--are what's protected under copyright. There's a bit more to it, but that's the gist.

And even there, "stock scenes"/"stock characters" aren't protected: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scènes_à_faire

(Of course none of this will prevent some dude on the internet from yelling at one because he thinks he owns the concept of blonde women with big tits. Dudes on the internet gonna dude on the internet. But they can be ignored.)

 

[Britva415]

If James Cameron could make Avatar without being sued by Disney, I wouldn't worry too much about accusations of plagiarism.

Not familiar with the issue here. Did Avatar (appear to) infringe on a Disney production?

 

[SimonDoom]

Hello!

Today I have some questions regarding the debate Inspiration vs Plagiarism (or copying, stealing, etc. someone's work).
First off, I'd like to say that I am a rather new and unexperienced writer, I will only write one story at a time because it's the best I can do. But, while I am writing my story I will get ideas for new stories, new characters, plots and everything. And those ideas will "turn me on", which will lead me to search for stories on Literotica regarding the same topic(s). And unexpectedly, since I am not a genius writer with crazy new ideas, there will be at least one story which is similar to the one I thought of.

First of all, I commend you for asking this question in an open-minded, and not defensive way. It's a valid question and it's a confusing subject for many.

Copyright law is the primary guide for this issue. A crucial concept in copyright law is the difference between ideas and expression. Ideas are not copyrightable, but the unique creative expression of an idea is copyrightable.

What that means is that you are perfectly free, without concern about the law or ethics, to take the broad, basic ideas of another fiction story, and to incorporate those ideas in your story, without being concerned that you are infringing another's copyright or plagiarizing. Plagiarism is a concept that applies more accurately in the field of academic writing than in fiction. You are NOT free to copy another author's EXPRESSION of his or her ideas.

So what does this mean, practically?

Avoid this: Don't copy specific words, sentences, or groups of words from another author; don't use the same characters, or their names; avoid exactly similar settings (e.g., don't write a story in Middle-earth unless it's a parody); avoid copying the specific important plot points of another story; don't copy dialogue.

But this is OK: It's fine to take the same basic idea and write your own story. For example, I've written a story based on the "mailgirl" idea, which somebody came up with before me. There are many mailgirl stories. It's not a proprietary concept; nobody owns it and nobody can exclude others from writing their own mailgirl stories. But I don't use the same names, setting, words, or characters as other mailgirl stories.

Another example: mom and son on a seat together. It's a well-worn idea that's been tried many times. Nobody owns the idea. If you want to do it, go ahead without guilt. But come up with your own characters, words, plot points, and setting.

 

[lustychimera]

(Of course none of this will prevent some dude on the internet from yelling at one because he thinks he owns the concept of blonde women with big tits. Dudes on the internet gonna dude on the internet. But they can be ignored.)

Dibs on redheads. The thick freckly ones. They're my idea now.

 

[MyBareTorso]

Even if ideas, themes, concepts and very basic storylines are out there, don't let that stop you... it's all about the spin you put on it. I only write and read CFNM, and if you're into this kink, you'll know that there are literally hundreds of stories on Literotica about guys who end up as nude art class models being sketched by female participants. The stories have the same concept, but the details (character, feelings about the situation, what happens during the class) are all very, very different...and that is a-okay.

 

[ronde]

First, do you think that writing a story that is similar (but still a bit different) to story(ies) already existing is stealing/copying other people's work? Or since it is still the fruit of my imagination, it is my own story?
Even if it is my own story, do you think it is worth writing? Even though there are similar stories which are much better written.

I know a lot of authors (even famous authors) get their inspirations from reading other stories, but I believe they still make the story their own by adding new elements and intrigues. But what if I don't have anything new to add to my story? It stays the same slice of life story than the rest, with similar hardships, obstacles and rewards.

I'm really questioning the ethics behind this, and I don't want to be told something like 'This is just xxx's story, but worse.", nor do I want to steal or copy anybody's work! I want to create my own stories, with my own characters, but sometimes I feel like I got all my ideas from reading other people's work and I am not creating anything new.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you can help me!

it would do you well to check out "plot" on Wikipedia or some other source. What you'll realize is that depending upon the writer, there are from 5 up to who knows how many different plots. Using the same plot as something you've read isn't plagiarism. If it were, there would be thousands of ongoing lawsuits.

Think of just this one plot - Female character in trouble, male character to the rescue, female character rescued, they live happily ever after.

This is the basic plot of nearly every western movie ever made, the basic plot of "Star Wars", the plot of "Tarzan", and so many other books and movies. Most of the time, the characters are basically the same but altered to fit the era, location, situation, etc. It's not using the same plot or the same type of characters that results in a charge of plagiarism. It's verbatim or nearly verbatim copying of another's work without citing the original work. As long as you're writing in your original words, you can safely write about anything.

 

[GlennJenko]

I feel you.

The story I'm currently working on was inspired by one I read about two years. The reason I initially started brainstorming it was precisely because I liked that idea, so I worry my work is too similar. I'd forgotten about it until I saw this post, so now my story is essentially done I went back and looked at it. And while I can definitely still see where the ideas came from, there are definite differences too in how the characters interact with each other, what the minutiae of the inciting incident is and how things develop after a specific point.

The setting is the same, however (set in a hotel with two adjacent rooms) but I think that's a generic enough idea to not feel too bad about it.

This is all to say that I think there's some very good advice here, and I think that if once you start writing your own story and do not look at what the inspiration for it was or think too much about it once your idea develops, it's almost impossible to truly plagiarise. As I said, over time I'd completely forgotten that the original idea was even based on something else.

 

[THBGato]

First, do you think that writing a story that is similar (but still a bit different) to story(ies) already existing is stealing/copying other people's work? Or since it is still the fruit of my imagination, it is my own story?

Do you know how many of Shakespeare's plot lines were his own?

One - The Tempest (though even that has elements of Ulysses to it). Everything else he adapted from other writers. But I don't think anyone would argue that they aren't his works.

There are 7 plot lines in fiction. Nothing is original.

Dibs on redheads. The thick freckly ones. They're my idea now.

Aw, shit! Now I've got to change one of my protagonists! ;-)

 

[StillStunned]

Not familiar with the issue here. Did Avatar (appear to) infringe on a Disney production?

There was the whole "Avatar is Pocahontas in space" thing, and then "No, it's actually Atlantis."