A question (primarily for male readers) about mentioning the menstrual cycle in a story:

[jsmiam]

But a far bigger question: how in the world did you acquire *four* proof readers when most of us can’t even find one?

 

[FeralSmile]

Menstruation is part of female human life through much of the life-cycle. It's honestly stupid and weird to object to it. I mean, how do you possibly think it's a bad thing to refer to this, without being just over-the-top misogynist?

And, ok, I accept that a lot of our culture is over-the-top misogynist, but still.

Mention it as you feel appropriate. Make it a plot point as you feel appropriate. I honestly think that doing otherwise is avoiding basic biology and living in a weird fantasy world, and not the fun kind where we get to fly or shoot fireballs from our hands.

I'm a hetero man, but to me that means "I think women are fucking awesome and I love them and think they're appealing and attractive". That doesn't mean being drawn to a bizarre sanitized version of them that doesn't correspond to how they actually are.

I don't think you need to or ought to pander to the sketchy misogynists.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

BUT…. let’s also reframe using our oft discussed LW conundrum. Suppose you were instead writing a story about a wife having an affair then getting caught then ultimately the couple works through it. Just suppose.

And suppose your proofreader had said, “some readers might be so offended that the husband reconciled, they will act like idiots, will write hate filled comments, and may even sabotage the scores of other stories of yours,” would you be here criticizing, punishing, and publicly shaming them?

What happened here is, your proofreader pointed out that some readers will be ignoramuses.

Acknowledging that a flawed belief system exists is not the same thing as holding that flawed belief system. Your proofreader’s percentages were certainly incorrect, but I’ll be kind and point out the possibility that he may have also been dramatizing the numbers, for effect. But even if the proofreader is in fact squeamish about period sex, their assessment that *some* readers will be less enlightened and thereby squeamish is not incorrect.

The screenshots by the way, made it more of a public shaming, not less.

So yes, you do owe your proofreader an apology. I would suggest you owe your other proofreaders full disclosure at what you did too, so they can decide whether they want to keep working with you. Someday, a different topic probably, their opinion will differ to yours. Someday they too may have a thread written about them. I know I would be running the other way.

Final double-down disclaimer repeated: I personally have no problem with period sex. My point in this thread, again, is “acknowledging that flawed belief systems exist is not the same as agreeing with those flawed belief systems.” And, my point is, public shaming isn’t a good look.

See, apparently I'm a bitch, but at least it's unintentional.

1) It was not my intention to shame him. I was teasing (a little) and I thought he would be amused. I was mistaken.

2) I asked him before I shared the screenshots. He wanted me to share them so that people could see his legitimate point of view. I think that's fair.

3) I did and still do apologize, because I believe perhaps I hurt his feeling, and that wasn't my intention.

4) He is a talented editor and a good friend, and I never meant to do anything beyond lightly tease him. I knew that he might see this thread, and I was not intending on insulting him, or embarrassing him.

5) Honestly, I don't think (even if he was repulsed by period blood) that it's something to be incredibly ashamed of. Some people have hemophobia, and faint at the sight of blood. Is that shameful? Not in my opinion

6) Where go I get so many proofreaders? I don't know. Any answer I give will likely come across as either snide or boastful, so I guess I'll just say "I'm lucky."

 

[FeralSmile]

I'm not a lesbian, but even if I was, I'l don't think I could bring myself to eat out a bloody pussy.

It's not - remotely - innately disgusting, FWIW. I first did so many years ago and haven't since decided I loathed the idea. Same for period sex. To each their own, of course.

People have a lot of ideas about bodies that aren't susceptible to argument and are simply reflections of preferences or biases that aren't open to consideration. Some people enjoy or tolerate urine or feces in their mouths or on their bodies; is being indifferent to or accepting of menstruation so much more challenging?

 

[Devinter]

Some people enjoy or tolerate urine or feces in their mouths or on their bodies; is being indifferent to or accepting of menstruation so much more challenging?

No - I'd even argue it's less challenging - but if you include urine or faeces in your story, you'd likely tag it accordingly, and maybe even include a serious warning at the opening sentences of your foreword. And having written a number of stories that include watersports and the consumption of urine, I know that it's something that gets a lot of readers to click on the story then instantly 'Nope' out of there - which I think is completely fair, of course. Thus, it will alienate a number of readers. If your goal is to avoid that, I would advice staying far away from these topics.

If it's included purely as an important plot point - like in MediocreAuthor's story - then I agree with the previous posters that it probably shouldn't be described in graphic detail. You won't appeal to fetishists by only briefly glossing over it, but you will alienate some squeamish readers, essentially getting the worst of both worlds. Either go all in or leave as much unsaid as possible, I think.

 

[FeralSmile]

No - I'd even argue it's less challenging - but if you include urine or faeces in your story, you'd likely tag it accordingly, and maybe even include a serious warning at the opening sentences of your foreword. And having written a number of stories that include watersports and the consumption of urine, I know that it's something that gets a lot of readers to click on the story then instantly 'Nope' out of there - which I think is completely fair, of course. Thus, it will alienate a number of readers. If your goal is to avoid that, I would advice staying far away from these topics.

If it's included purely as an important plot point - like in MediocreAuthor's story - then I agree with the previous posters that it probably shouldn't be described in graphic detail. You won't appeal to fetishists by only briefly glossing over it, but you will alienate some squeamish readers, essentially getting the worst of both worlds. Either go all in or leave as much unsaid as possible, I think.

Fair! I think it's far less challenging, too. I was intending a bit of a reductio ad absurdum there.

Your point about tags is reasonable though; if there's detail about menses (i.e. if it's more than a passing reference) then perhaps it's appropriate to tag it so readers can avoid it if they prefer not to read about it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

No way!

Em

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/169isdr

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s34aul

(dude saw the light, too late)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13xguk1

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/j4kr3j

Plenty more where those came from :-/

 

[Djmac1031]

I've written menstruation into my stories a few times, no one has ever complained.

I can understand different sensibilities when it comes to what kind of sexual activities one might partake in...or not ... during that time, but if guys are squeamish at the mere mention of it, they need to grow the fuck up.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Yeah, so, I'm with your editor on this one. Despite the general theme of how we're all able to jerk off to menstrual discharge in this thread, I have to say: Bodily fluids, in general, are icky.

If you pee in my kitchen sink, I'm gonna ask you to leave my house. Yes, we all pee. And, yes, it's a normal bodily function. I still don't need to like getting told about it.
If my girlfriend has a runny nose and leaves her used tissues on the nightstand, I'd appreciate it if she disposed of them in a timely manner instead of leaving them on display for me.
And if I, once again, prove my inability to safely use power tools and produce a bunch of bloody bandages/band-aids, my girlfriend has every right to complain when I leave them on the coffee table after putting on new ones.

Now, I don't know what kind of story you're writing, but I'm gonna assume it's an erotic story if you're posting it on Literotica. And, like many others, if I read a story, I'm not just gonna hear a voice in my head saying the words I read, but instead actually imagine the scenes I read about. And, believe it or not, if you pull me out of an erotic scene to make me imagine an MC taking a shit, or disinfecting wounds, or inspecting their underwear for signs of spotting... that's kinda ruining the mood.

I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

 

[Stimtheone]

I'm not a guy to be weirded out by women's bodily functions. In fact, I know more about their functions than some might want me to know. So, in my opinion... if it serves the story, feel free to mention it in detail, if it's just a side note, give it that one-off mention of them not fucking because the cramps won't let the woman get in the mood (or if she's a masochist that they fuck more because it REALLY gets her in the mood) but otherwise, no reason to exclude it unless there is absolutely no benefit from it.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

As some of you know, PoE is a commissioned story that a customer is having written for his wife.

Upon receiving and reading it, he messaged me and called it "Fantastic" and he said there were no changes that he or his wife wanted (I always offer buyers the option of having me make changes to things they don't like).

I'm making a few alterations for Lit, and then the story will be available for general reading.

If you're curious, you can find out then if you ultimately agree that I made a mistake.

PS: Again, I apologize for making it seem like I was deriding my editor. He's a cool guy, and I have a lot of respect for him. I never meant it that way (although do see how it looked that way).

 

[Bramblethorn]

What happened here is, your proofreader pointed out that some readers will be ignoramuses.

Acknowledging that a flawed belief system exists is not the same thing as holding that flawed belief system. Your proofreader’s percentages were certainly incorrect, but I’ll be kind and point out the possibility that he may have also been dramatizing the numbers, for effect. But even if the proofreader is in fact squeamish about period sex, their assessment that *some* readers will be less enlightened and thereby squeamish is not incorrect.

At the point where they've added that many nines after the decimal point, it seems reasonable to suppose that they're counting themselves in that supposed majority, when they've said nothing to indicate otherwise.

(It doesn't help that waaay too many people use "readers won't like..." as code for "I don't like..." without even understanding that that's what they're doing. Many of us have had feedback from readers who assume their own preferences are universal.)

5) Honestly, I don't think (even if he was repulsed by period blood) that it's something to be incredibly ashamed of. Some people have hemophobia, and faint at the sight of blood. Is that shameful? Not in my opinion

Some do. There's a physiological mechanism to it (vasovagal syncope) where the pulse and blood pressure drop at the sight of blood. It can be seen as an evolutionary adaptation: if you've injured yourself badly, syncope reduces the rate of blood loss and that might make the difference between bleeding out and clotting. If he's genuinely somebody who faints or feels sick at the sight of his own blood, fair.

But for quite a few guys the issue is specifically menstrual blood and it goes far beyond a visual trigger. One of the stories I linked above had a guy who was offended by her girlfriend putting her bloody pads in the same trash bin as all the other trash; even when she put them under other trash so he wouldn't have to see them, he searched them out to get mad about them. Guys who are unwilling even to pick up a pack of unused tampons at the store for their girlfriends. That's not a phobia.

There's also a big difference between owning one's own squicks/phobias ("I have this reaction to the sight of blood, I prefer not to see it - would you mind accommodating that?") and presenting it as a universal imperative where the person who treats her menstrual products the same way as a used tissue/etc. is the weirdo.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Is this an age thing, I wonder?

Em

 

[gtnlynn]

It doesn't bother me at all. I learned a lot about menstrual periods during eight years of dating my wife, beginning in high school.

 

[EmilyMiller]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/169isdr

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s34aul

(dude saw the light, too late)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13xguk1

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/j4kr3j

Plenty more where those came from :-/

Just read one. O-M-F-G!!!!

Em

 

[ronde]

Menstruation is a normal bodily function for women and is something a male partner of that woman confronts at some point in his life. I write it into some of my stories as a way to put the characters into a situation that could be embarrassing, disappointing, or in some cases, the realization of education so far unseen in real life. It's just another way to explain how my characters are without stating it in two paragraphs of text.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest - but if ratings matter to you, then yeah, some men are squeamish about anything which does not represent the female body as purely existing for the sole purpose of giving male sexual pleasure, e.g. periods, lactation, pregnancy, stretch marks, perineal tears, haemorrhoids. I enjoy writing about the female body in all its multi-faceted glory - but I am not too worried about my ratings...

Violet_Vixen writes about period blood, and may have some wisdom on the matter.

Hmm... I might be expecting a decline with my incest story, because pms, and pregnancy is happnin' eventually. Hey... it's their own fault if they don't like it.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Menstruation is part of female human life through much of the life-cycle. It's honestly stupid and weird to object to it. I mean, how do you possibly think it's a bad thing to refer to this, without being just over-the-top misogynist?

And, ok, I accept that a lot of our culture is over-the-top misogynist, but still.

Mention it as you feel appropriate. Make it a plot point as you feel appropriate. I honestly think that doing otherwise is avoiding basic biology and living in a weird fantasy world, and not the fun kind where we get to fly or shoot fireballs from our hands.

I'm a hetero man, but to me that means "I think women are fucking awesome and I love them and think they're appealing and attractive". That doesn't mean being drawn to a bizarre sanitized version of them that doesn't correspond to how they actually are.

I don't think you need to or ought to pander to the sketchy misogynists.

Some people just don't like the ugly natural things-- I have an aversion to farts. IDGAF how natural it is. No need to be a mysoginst for not liking a chick on their period. It's not a turn-on for a number of men. It doesn't stop me... hell... I've got a small collection of red wing badges on my sash.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Is this an age thing, I wonder?

Em

Partly, and a lack of education in schools so parents tell their kids roughly what they were told plus a little extra info.

I recall in college my mate was going shopping (about a 20 minute walk) and asked if I wanted anything. I asked for 2 pints of milk and a pack of tampons. He sensibly asked what tampons, so I gave him part of the empty box.

A female student overheard and was shocked that I'd asked for so much. I agreed that the milk would be heavy and told him one pint would be fine. No, she was referring to expecting a 20-year-old lad to buy tampons in a supermarket...

This was early 90s so at least boys had been taught in school what periods were and key details to pass GCSE Biology, but lots of my male friends didn't realise the bleeding lasts several days, they can be irregular, bleeding can be a sudden gush, etc. It was still expected that one didn't mention periods in front of men, even family.

Actually, even ten years or so ago my young brother-in-law saw a bunch of sanpro openly out in the bathroom and mentioned I should put it away (because he assumed it must be there by accident). We schooled him.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

sanpro

What is this? I wonder if Google is localizing my search results somehow (to the US), because all I get are medical waste disposal companies with "sanpro" in their names. Even "sanpro UK" gets me names of companies.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

At the point where they've added that many nines after the decimal point, it seems reasonable to suppose that they're counting themselves in that supposed majority, when they've said nothing to indicate otherwise.

I think the 99.9999% thing was intended as humorous hyperbole.

I honestly intended this thread to be a playful tease at a friend of mine, and people are (perhaps unintentionally) turning it into a trial to determine if my beta-reader is somehow a misogynist or a some sort of squeamish incel with no experience with women.

Neither of those things are true.

 

[lc69hunter]

In the third chapter of my story "The Price of Embezzlement" I bring up the FMC's period as an important plot point.

In the previous chapters, Ruth is forced to walk around the office without panties. But when her period hits, Brent tells her that she can wear panties with her pad, but she must remove her bra instead. She's in the office bathroom when she realizes that she is no longer spotting, and she hasn't been since her shower that morning. She wipes with a sanitary wipe to be sure, and again there is no blood. So she removes her panties again.

One of my four proof-readers (a man) figured that this might be enough to scare off some male readers.

For the record, there is no blood featured, and this is not going into fetish.

Who here agrees or disagrees?

It is a monthly (close to it) bodily function, a woman flushing out an unfertilized egg, meaning she is safe for the next week or so. Like everything, it can and will be fetishized, and will gross out some men who have never lived with a woman (and some who have).
Some women are miserable (don't fucking touch me), and some women are horny, but ashamed/embarrassed to ask their man for pleasure.

The topic does not bother me

 

[Codoc24]

I think scat is a lot worse than blood if you're talking about being squeamish. I like anal stories but some I've read are kinda gross. I've seen a lot as far as a woman's period goes in my 62 years, so it doesn't bother me if I pull out and there's blood on me or on the sheets. That's just life, no biggie. I've been married or living with a woman for almost 30 of those years, and you just get used to it.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Partly, and a lack of education in schools so parents tell their kids roughly what they were told plus a little extra info.

I recall in college my mate was going shopping (about a 20 minute walk) and asked if I wanted anything. I asked for 2 pints of milk and a pack of tampons. He sensibly asked what tampons, so I gave him part of the empty box.

A female student overheard and was shocked that I'd asked for so much. I agreed that the milk would be heavy and told him one pint would be fine. No, she was referring to expecting a 20-year-old lad to buy tampons in a supermarket...

This was early 90s so at least boys had been taught in school what periods were and key details to pass GCSE Biology, but lots of my male friends didn't realise the bleeding lasts several days, they can be irregular, bleeding can be a sudden gush, etc. It was still expected that one didn't mention periods in front of men, even family.

Actually, even ten years or so ago my young brother-in-law saw a bunch of sanpro openly out in the bathroom and mentioned I should put it away (because he assumed it must be there by accident). We schooled him.

Could be. But also I think the guys that are like that are the same ones afraid to hold their girls purse. It's some kinda gender issue I can't right currently put a name to. The Hank Hills of the world.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

What is this? I wonder if Google is localizing my search results somehow (to the US), because all I get are medical waste disposal companies with "sanpro" in their names. Even "sanpro UK" gets me names of companies.

I think it might be Sanipro. Could be wrong.