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Distance Domination-Support Thread

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lil_slave_rose said:
i don't know maybe i'm taking it wrong and you're talking to those 'online couples' who will ONLY be an online couple forever, but i know for Master and i, that is not the case, and we have met, spent a week together, watching each other interact with those around us.
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Rose, my goal is absolutely *not* to question the commitment, devotion, or love inherent in your relationship. Yes, you are "taking it wrong". I'll try again to explain. :)

I am talking about an hypothetical woman who is involved with an online Dom whom she has never met. She desperately wants for the relationship to thrive, to be his one and only, to meet in the physical world, etc., but none of these things have happened yet.

Maybe he sent her a picture. How does she know it is really him?

Maybe she saw him on webcam. How does she know whether he only turns on the webcam when his wife is asleep or at PTA meetings?

He says he has a steady job at XYZ Corporation. How does she know if this is true?

These are the types of questions that I am asking. This is why I asked you, ChromeCollar, Wench, and others for suggestions on smelling out rats in the virtual world.

At the beginning of a relationship, there is a *huge* difference in the opportunities for gathering information in the online vs. physical world, long before anybody has their heart set on romantic visions of life with anybody else.

If you have spoken to his sister, mother, step father, and brothers, and spent a week with him in the physical world, then you are absolutely *not* the type of woman to whom I am referring with this hypothetical.

I am talking about an hypothetical woman who devotes herself, heart and soul, to a person she has never met or possibly never even seen.
 
JMohegan said:
Rose, my goal is absolutely *not* to question the commitment, devotion, or love inherent in your relationship. Yes, you are "taking it wrong". I'll try again to explain. :)

I am talking about an hypothetical woman who is involved with an online Dom whom she has never met. She desperately wants for the relationship to thrive, to be his one and only, to meet in the physical world, etc., but none of these things have happened yet.

Maybe he sent her a picture. How does she know it is really him?

Maybe she saw him on webcam. How does she know whether he only turns on the webcam when his wife is asleep or at PTA meetings?

He says he has a steady job at XYZ Corporation. How does she know if this is true?

These are the types of questions that I am asking. This is why I asked you, ChromeCollar, Wench, and others for suggestions on smelling out rats in the virtual world.

At the beginning of a relationship, there is a *huge* difference in the opportunities for gathering information in the online vs. physical world, long before anybody has their heart set on romantic visions of life with anybody else.

If you have spoken to his sister, mother, step father, and brothers, and spent a week with him in the physical world, then you are absolutely *not* the type of woman to whom I am referring with this hypothetical.

I am talking about an hypothetical woman who devotes herself, heart and soul, to a person she has never met or possibly never even seen.
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ah, sorry for being dense *grins* i don't know how to answer that, other than to say there are ALWAYS signs if something is not right and this hypothetical woman needs to keep her eyes open for them and not give fully of herself until she is sure He is real, not married, not lying, etc.... there is no true way of knowing if you're being lied to online, but if your eyes are open and you don't 'fall in love' with the first two words He types,then you should be able to see when something doesn't seem right, as i mentioned before the red flags being, He is not able to talk to you at certain times of the day, you're not allowed (or given his phone number) to call Him at certain times of the day, He signs off in the middle of conversations (often). again if her eyes are open she will see these red flags, whether she chooses to do anything about them or not is another story, i've seen it many times that she sees the signs but continues on and then winds up hurt and crying to everyone in the manner that you posted in an earlier post. if however, hypothetical Dom/sub is serious about the relationship going anywhere, they will interact with said Dom/sub's physical world 'friends' 'family' and so on, and will find out if what they say is about themselves is true. if said Dom will not allow that there again is another red flag, if you are speaking of ones who never intend to go real time, i'm can't answer those questions because i can't understand not wanting the physical along with the emotional. i guess that's what i was trying to say i do hope this is more on the lines of what you were asking then my previous posts, i sometimes have a hard time expressing what i'm trying to say, lucky for me, Master knows me well enough to usually know what i'm saying without much confusion, unfortunately no one else does :)
 
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It was obvious I was telling the truth, because working as a wage slave at Target is NOT a glamour job... OK, I was working in a gorcery store when we first met...
 
FurryFury said:
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. My husband is fine with what I do online or off, I make the decisions about what I need to do and he supports them. He is quite aware of what I am doing.

Likewise my online Master is aware of my husband as well.

I'm not just content. I'm not less myself. I'm simply not willing to walk out on a wonderful man who I love and treasure because he doesn't fit desires I am suddenly aware of. I don't think I could live with myself if I did.

I can live with myself this way. He is happy. I am happy. My online Master is happy. My kids are happy. This I can be thrilled with and I am.

Meanwhile if I suddenly feel I can play in public or with others, that too is open to me because of the amazingly unselfish love of my husband. I can assure you if he weren't okay with all this, I wouldn't be here, be at my local scene or have an online Master. When I love someone I do it with all of my being and a great deal of loyalty.

As EG said, you can love more than one.

Fury :rose:[/QUOTE
I have been reading this post with interest, I would just like to say Fury I understand entirely what you are saying, I to am in the same situation as you, I have a Wonderful understanding Husband and a Wonderful Understanding Master. I think i have the best of both worlds, and I'm a very Lucky woman. I thank them both everyday.
I also know this situation would not work for everybody, But i have been honest from the start, and will not hide anything from either of them. And I too Love them both very much. :kiss:
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gosh...

The posts are flying away here... So many good and valid points. I was the poster rose referred to about being "content" in my marriage but not happy. My Mr. knows that I love my husband and children and will suppress my own desires for a d/s relationship with him or anyone else before I will jeapordize that.

It IS a hard way to love, dont get me wrong. I dont discuss this type of realtionship with my husband (hell, haven't had to since i haven't had a master in almost 3 years), but he is willing to share me physically with other men and has done so. I know that he is simply incapable of being a master and "topping from below" is terribly difficult for me.

Mr. and I discussed this yesterday and he knows that I feel in my heart that my husband is a sub who is unable to explore this part of himself and thats why he cant be the master that I long for. I know how hard of a road this can be to travel and I will never push him farther into it unless he asks me to. I would love if he could find the happiness that I have in d/s (and now especially with my Mr.) and would encourage him to meet those needs, whether irl or online.

It's so far beyond his comprehension right now that what I want is far more involved than just a spanking. But I am lucky enough that he will do that for me sometimes in the "heat of the moment."

And that lack of actual physical contact is what makes an online master such a challenge for me. I've never had this type of relationship where we weren't seeing each other irl first. But my Mr. has just as much control over me (in a good and very healthy way) as if I were with him in person.

As I said before, he respects me, encourages my learning more about this through lit or in talking to friends. He gives me no reason to think he isn't being completely honest with me and knows that I am telling him the truth as well.

Maybe this doesn't work for everyone, but he is fast becoming my friend as well as a deliciously strict master. And has given me permission to address him by his first name if a friend is what I need him to be for a moment or however.

Having been one who had a master that didnt respect my need for a safe out and forcibly took advantage, I am so greatful to my Mr. for understanding this. He would never punish me with actual physical harm and although he will cetainly keep me in line, admits that is the part of being a dom that he enjoys the least. He would hate to see me so unhappy.

Ok, enough rambling for this morning. And Mr., I know you're following this thread with great interest to see how I'm doing. Your little pet so appreciates your support.

DontThankJustSpank
Mr's little pet
 
Your relationship sounds just like mine DontThankJust Spank, so i can understand what you are saying. My husband also could never be a Master to me, and he is happy for me to seek this elsewhere. I know i'm very lucky.
My Master has also become my friend, hes there to listen to me as well as guide me. We are like soulmates.
I love them both very much. :)
 
subfem1963 said:
Your relationship sounds just like mine DontThankJust Spank, so i can understand what you are saying. My husband also could never be a Master to me, and he is happy for me to seek this elsewhere. I know i'm very lucky.
My Master has also become my friend, hes there to listen to me as well as guide me. We are like soulmates.
I love them both very much. :)
Click to expand...


Oh, subfem, please DON'T say the "L" word! Heehee, I think my Mr. might just run away forever if I said that to him right now. We are so very new into this and I can't think about that yet. Yet my very heart fluttered...

I wish my husband could truly understand. Alas...

Mr.'s little pet
 
Shy Slave, I think everyone in the thread was a little shocked by Luciden's command to insert a hot battery inside. That was the response I saw, anyhow. What shocked me more, to be honest, was her complete oblivion to her own safety and disregard for how that might effect her for the rest of her life. I had to step away from the thread for a couple days, and I spoke with not only my Master but by Mentor about how it disturbed me so. They gave me the talking to that I needed and that was that. What another person does with their life is their choice.

I also think the line in this thread between submissive and slave is seriously blurred. There seems to be no definition.

JM, I have to say that I like the questions you pose. I like that they are not directed at anyone, but instead make everything think and get the brain juices flowing on what seems to be a variety of topics. Once again, I hope to hear more of you.

For those of you that are involved with both an online Master and a real time husband, and the situation is all out in the open regarding all parties, I give you kudos. It must take a strong, confident and love filled bond to be able to share so selflessly and I cant say enough how much I admire that. It might not be for all of us, but I think it is amazing that you have found that path to walk on and be happy.
 
DontThankJustSpank said:
Oh, subfem, please DON'T say the "L" word! Heehee, I think my Mr. might just run away forever if I said that to him right now. We are so very new into this and I can't think about that yet. Yet my very heart fluttered...

I wish my husband could truly understand. Alas...

Mr.'s little pet
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Just out of curiosity, was the relationship with your spouse as whirlwind as the relationship you are indulging with your online Master?
 
JMohegan said:
There are lying Doms and honest Doms.

A Dom is a guy who gets off on controlling someone's behavior in a personal relationship. Who gives him this power, title, or role? One person and one person only. The woman who yields to his will, whether online or off.

My question was not getting at the issue of who is real or fake anything. I'm talking about deception, plain and simple.

Post 354:

Would you have said the same thing, Rose, before you met your partner? That you don't even care what gender the person really is?

How do you (general "you") know even the most basic information about the person with whom you are communicating when you can't even see his/her face or hear his/her voice?

If you move to webcam, then you may confirm gender and guess at age. But will you meet his friends? Family? Co-workers at the office picnic? Will you see him interact with waiters, or the guy next to him in line at the movies, or the guy who cuts him off in traffic?

You can gain an incredible amount of information about a guy from watching him interact with someone other than yourself. The isolation of one-on-one Internet time may be exquisitely intimate, but in many ways it just simply can *not* duplicate real life. And I am not speaking here about skin to skin contact, but rather about the multitude of experiences, situations, dilemmas, and challenges of interacting with more than a single human being at once.
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*sigh* so very true.

You know what I really dream and fantisize about the most? Just doing stupid things with my Love like going to the movies, going sight seeing, buying groceries, *giggles* and anoying him as I take my time looking for fabric to bring home with me. A lot of nights I sit curled up on my love seat and just imagine what it would be like to watch a show with him.

Hopefully that'll all be mended in due time.

But I know that's not what this was about so please forgive my dopey ramblings and drifting. :eek:
 
JMohegan said:
Rose, my goal is absolutely *not* to question the commitment, devotion, or love inherent in your relationship. Yes, you are "taking it wrong". I'll try again to explain. :)

I am talking about an hypothetical woman who is involved with an online Dom whom she has never met. She desperately wants for the relationship to thrive, to be his one and only, to meet in the physical world, etc., but none of these things have happened yet.

Maybe he sent her a picture. How does she know it is really him?

Maybe she saw him on webcam. How does she know whether he only turns on the webcam when his wife is asleep or at PTA meetings?

He says he has a steady job at XYZ Corporation. How does she know if this is true?

These are the types of questions that I am asking. This is why I asked you, ChromeCollar, Wench, and others for suggestions on smelling out rats in the virtual world.

At the beginning of a relationship, there is a *huge* difference in the opportunities for gathering information in the online vs. physical world, long before anybody has their heart set on romantic visions of life with anybody else.

If you have spoken to his sister, mother, step father, and brothers, and spent a week with him in the physical world, then you are absolutely *not* the type of woman to whom I am referring with this hypothetical.

I am talking about an hypothetical woman who devotes herself, heart and soul, to a person she has never met or possibly never even seen.
Click to expand...

Some one closer to me. ;)
 
the captians wench said:
Some one closer to me. ;)
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Yes, Wench. Someone in a relationship similar to yours. :rose:

Your trust is much greater than the trust of a woman who does not care if her online partner lies or tells the truth.

Your sacrifice is much greater than the sacrifice of a woman who has a loving husband to turn to if her online partner signs off permanently.

No relationship is risk-free, and absolutely nothing is perfect. But I gotta tell you something, Wench. I really did grin when you spoke about sending packages and letters to his Mom. That really made me smile.
 
JMohegan said:
I am talking about an hypothetical woman who devotes herself, heart and soul, to a person she has never met or possibly never even seen.
Click to expand...


Then this woman should also keep in mind that the object of her affections is as like to dissapear, or not be who he seems, than make all her dreams come true. I would also add act accordingly, but I can only say that about myself because I've been there, done that. Never again. You can caution someone all you want, but in the end, it is their own experience that open the eyes.
 
Chrome collar I do hope our concerns have not put Luciden off coming or posting here.
That would be a shame, one incident does not make a complete picture.
I have made many stupid errors and posted about them. Thankfully the early ones are somewhere hidden in very old threads.
 
JMohegan said:
Yes, Wench. Someone in a relationship similar to yours. :rose:

Your trust is much greater than the trust of a woman who does not care if her online partner lies or tells the truth.

Your sacrifice is much greater than the sacrifice of a woman who has a loving husband to turn to if her online partner signs off permanently.

No relationship is risk-free, and absolutely nothing is perfect. But I gotta tell you something, Wench. I really did grin when you spoke about sending packages and letters to his Mom. That really made me smile.
Click to expand...

It really made my heart jump when he told me she loved the pillows I sent. *giggles* And to be honest, I really took a leap when I did it. I'm really not sure how much his family knows about me. Well other than I'm some silly american chick that sends him stuff and rings him every saturday. That's probably the hardest part, well one of the, about this kind of relationship. When I do make it over there, I have no clue as to who he will, or if he will, introduce me to, and how much they will know about me. To be honest, I have had my little bouts of parinoia and fear that perhaps things aren't what they seem, but faith isn't much good if it's a sure thing. ;)
 
the captians wench said:
When I do make it over there, I have no clue as to who he will, or if he will, introduce me to, and how much they will know about me.
Click to expand...

This seems like a really good topic for discussion, no?
 
the captians wench said:
That being granted, I have another question, and forgive me if this sounds upity but I'm really being sensier. . . If that's the case, then what's the point in the rest?
Click to expand...

That's why I forgo the rest. I don't see the sense in it.
 
shy slave said:
Raven Thank you for writing this.

What a brave thing to do. It could have backfired on you, but it does show that honesty is better than cheating :rose:
___________________________________________________

In general this thread bothers me when I read it.

I am concerned by the levels that people go to in an online situation.
I am not anti online. Not at all.
But I worry about how safe people are and how far they would go for someone they have never met.

The post about putting a hot battery inside themselves, shocked me. This has the potential of danger beyond what could be considered safe or sane.

I have heard of online Doms telling a sub they cannot post online. I have heard about online Doms wanting control outside of a sexual situation for example a submissives work, finances, child care arrangements.
A good Dom should not be cutting a submissive off from those around her but encouraging her to ask questions and find out more about herself, knowing yourself improves submission; it does not suffocate it.

Different people are excited by different things and that in itself is not a problem.
It is a problem if a submissive is new or so willing to please that rational safety is not taken into account.
Sadly some men do see BDSM as a way to control a women in a way they would not normally be able to. I don't see these men as wannabes, but as bullies who enjoy exerting control over a submissive to the detriment of their lives.

IMO BDSM should be fun, it should also be about allowing each other to reach their full potential in every area of their lives. This is regardless of whether it is online or not.

A Dom who wants to control every aspect of a submissive's life before they can see a situation first hand and before they have shown they have the skills to deal with any fallout from what they are asking is not looking after a submissive, they are looking for their own self gratification from controlling a woman.

Recently on Lit it seems there are fewer and fewer rational voices and more and more people who advocate a setting aside of a submissives brain.
That makes me sad. It also makes me aware that it opens up an opportunity for bullying Doms who contact new submissives offline and try to control them without allowing them support from others.

When I first came to Lit, I did some stupid things and when I wrote about them was duly blasted for my stupidity from people like AA and ADR.
Thank God they did, I may have ended up in a very different situation if they had not.

For what it is worth people should re-read many of Furry Furrys post, Serijules and Captains Wench about online relationships. They seem to have the balance right and are not being taken advantage of by their PYL's. I know EG, Catalina and JM post good information as well but they are not in online situations; they do talk alot of sense when it comes to SSC.

One day I feel there will be a thread about a submissive who jumped off a cliff because her online Dom told her too.
Click to expand...


This is well put. I'm totally floored by a lot of the things you are floored by. The sad part, is that people IRL have the same kinds of issues and do the same kinds of things. I'm seeing the need for more and more education to be done about boundaries, healthy M/s relationships, how to do TPE in ways that are not abuse even when those things may *look* awfully close from the outside.

Everything we do carries risk. I do certain kinds of play that can result in death (suspension) You will see me tie a fast hip harness and suspend MYSELF off a point before I put another girl up on it sometimes, swinging around a bit for good measure. Unless Master wants to test the hot battery on his masterly ass, what on God's EARTH would make you believe you can put your trust, faith, and life in this person's hands - if he clearly believes you are worth the risk of expenditure alone, without supervision, without his help should things go fucked?

I'm not shy and I'll be critical, this is not a grey area.

Do I play with Harvey online?

Sure! He has lots of assignments and some of them quite hard.

I save the dangerous edgeplay for when we're together. Breathplay done solo is a perfect example of something really bad just waiting to happen.
 
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Netzach said:
This seems like a really good topic for discussion, no?
Click to expand...

We have talked about it, but very breifly. Seeing as my trip there is not even close to being a solid deal, I don't see much point in pressing the issue. He has told me that his family knows very little about me because he doesn't feel like they would understand. Which I can relate to because with the exception of my mom, my family doesn't understand either. He has made hints that it would be very likely I would be introduced to some people he at the very least knows, but wouldn't be a proper setting for more bdsm type style. (telling me things like I should probably bring something a little more modest with me) I'm not really worried too much at this point because like I said I'm not even sure when I'm going to be there. It's more something I'm just curious about really.
 
Wow!

You step away for a day and the posts take off like wildfire in here. I have really enjoyed reading what's been discussed from last night and today. There are some great opinions being voiced.

I'll touch on the point of taking a PYL/pyl at face value immediately. Yes, I'm with a Master, but we chatted every day as friends for over a month before we embraced our D/s positions. I did not call him "Sir" from the moment we met just because he said he was a Dom. So what if he was a Dom? ... at that moment, he wasn't MY Dom, he was simply a man I was befriending. I met him as an equal adult and our roles defined themselves naturally. I learned to respect him as a person before submitting to him as my Master.

Of course, the reason we were chatting was because of our common interest in BDSM. We knew each other's PYL/pyl desires, but we didn't immediately say "If we're talking that makes us a couple". To me that's as insane as saying "If I talk to a guy in the grocery store and he's single, then we're dating now".

I think every successful relationship, be it vanilla or BDSM, is best developed slowly. Trust doesn't come overnight. Respect isn't given immediately. What I share with Raven has developed over time, and it will continue to grow and evolve each day.

He and I are making an emotional investment in each other , not the lifestyle . We see ourselves as committed to this for a long time to come.
 
the captians wench said:
We have talked about it, but very breifly. Seeing as my trip there is not even close to being a solid deal, I don't see much point in pressing the issue. He has told me that his family knows very little about me because he doesn't feel like they would understand. Which I can relate to because with the exception of my mom, my family doesn't understand either. He has made hints that it would be very likely I would be introduced to some people he at the very least knows, but wouldn't be a proper setting for more bdsm type style. (telling me things like I should probably bring something a little more modest with me) I'm not really worried too much at this point because like I said I'm not even sure when I'm going to be there. It's more something I'm just curious about really.
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Oh, ok, for a first visit or first few visits this makes a lot of sense. I have multiple stories about the same people for multiple contexts and not everyone needs to know everything - I agree! But it is an interesting thing to talk about, if you are intending to take your relationship to a certain level in RT, to know when you can expect those introductions and to know what you can expect from those people in the way of reaction - it seems an important part to think about in charting an M/s relationship. There may be certain people who still just assume you are the girlfriend 15 years into an ownership contract because it's all they will ever be able to handle.
 
Netzach said:
Oh, ok, for a first visit or first few visits this makes a lot of sense. I have multiple stories about the same people for multiple contexts and not everyone needs to know everything - I agree! But it is an interesting thing to talk about, if you are intending to take your relationship to a certain level in RT, to know when you can expect those introductions and to know what you can expect from those people in the way of reaction - it seems an important part to think about in charting an M/s relationship. There may be certain people who still just assume you are the girlfriend 15 years into an ownership contract because it's all they will ever be able to handle.
Click to expand...

Just from what he's told me about past relationships and such, I have a feeling most of the people I would meet would keep me in the girlfriend cat.

And I do agree it is a conversation to persue in the future...but now just isn't the time. :)
 
the captians wench said:
Just from what he's told me about past relationships and such, I have a feeling most of the people I would meet would keep me in the girlfriend cat.

And I do agree it is a conversation to persue in the future...but now just isn't the time. :)
Click to expand...
The first time I met Raven, I traveled to him and stayed in his home for 5 nights with he and his wife. I was not hidden in the house, no way. I was taken places, introduced to people and had a great time. But we had to have a cover story ... not too many people would have understood, and personally, it's none of their business to know the details.

We devised our stories this way ... if I was meeting a friend of His, then I was a friend of his wife's, and we met out of town. If I met a friend of his wife's, then I was a friend of his and we met at a professional conference. *Raven and I share similar professions*. If I met a friend of both to them, then we stuck with the professional conference story.

I met quite a few people my first visit, and my second visit a couple of months later I revisted with the ones I'd already befriended and met even more people. To those who know me now, I'm simply a good friend of Raven and Mrs. Raven, and they can expect to see me again ;)
 
Thought about this all day...

ChromeCollar said:
Just out of curiosity, was the relationship with your spouse as whirlwind as the relationship you are indulging with your online Master?
Click to expand...

Valid question. In one sense I suppose, but not truly. He and I had known each other for five years before we had really starting dating and were friends, hung out with the same people, etc. But then once we started dating we were engaged after a short time, but then again weren't married until over a year later.

I have had several masters since then, none that were at all like I am feeling now. I must put out some sort of "kiss me, i'm a sub" signal because even when i was trying to deny to myself that a d/s relationship was what I wanted, the men I found were almost always doms. Or at least very willing to learn.

And HE pursued ME. Which I suppose is also the case with my Mr. as he pm'd me after I'd only been at Lit a short time.

This is very unlike what irl is like for me. I don't give my heart very easily, and even less so in a d/s situation, due to circumstances early in my time as a sub where I was forced (not play forced, truly forced) and hurt my a man who claimed he was a dom but was really a manipulative bully who was a sadist at heart.

I can't say that I know where things with my Mr. will lead. I hope that someday we will meet in person and I quiver just thinking about him, but believe me when I say that my eyes are WIDE open.

I can't explain any better than that.

Mr's little pet
 
Sprinkles22 said:
The first time I met Raven, I traveled to him and stayed in his home for 5 nights with he and his wife. I was not hidden in the house, no way. I was taken places, introduced to people and had a great time. But we had to have a cover story ... not too many people would have understood, and personally, it's none of their business to know the details.

We devised our stories this way ... if I was meeting a friend of His, then I was a friend of his wife's, and we met out of town. If I met a friend of his wife's, then I was a friend of his and we met at a professional conference. *Raven and I share similar professions*. If I met a friend of both to them, then we stuck with the professional conference story.

I met quite a few people my first visit, and my second visit a couple of months later I revisted with the ones I'd already befriended and met even more people. To those who know me now, I'm simply a good friend of Raven and Mrs. Raven, and they can expect to see me again ;)
Click to expand...

It's kind of fun in my mind to imagine the story he would come up with and how he would introduce me. If say he introduced me as the american chick he's been chatting with, then a question bound to come up is how we met in the first place, and some how I don't see him telling them that he met me on an erotica chat forum while he was glancing at the amiture pic section. ;) But maybe I'm just a tad twisted that way.

None the less, I just can't wait to spend some time with him. Who he does or doesn't introduce me to is not a priority. Not the first trip anyway. ;)
 
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