Do you "Steal" computer software?

[RawHumor]

at least I am not a company that jacks up prices to screw customers. Yeah, how noble of them to overprice their products.

Have you ever taken an economics class? There's supply and demand curves. Companies charge the price that will maximize their overall profit (taking into account the number of items sold multiplied by the price of that item and accounting for cost of production).

If they "jack up" the prices, then they'd sell less of the product.

 

[Lasher]

at least I am not a company that jacks up prices to screw customers.

That's an awfully naive thing to say.

 

[The Heretic]

I do rip all my CDs to my computer simply because it's easier to listen to it that way than to swap CDs out all of the time or to put up with long periods of silence while the 100 disc CD changer hops from song to song and disc to disc.

Unless the law has changed drastically, I believe you are allowed to make "Archival copies" as long as you use them in that manner. I.E., if I buy a music CD I am not breaking the law or being unethical if I rip it to MP3 so I can listen to it on an MP3 player, as long as I don't give those MP3 files to someone else and as long as I am not listening to that music on two separate devices at the same time.

I do rip MP3s from time to time from CDs I buy; I want to be able to listen to them at work or when I am away from home without having to lug around a bunch of space consuming CDs.

 

[Guest]

Have you ever taken an economics class?

I dont see how thats relevent.
Companies jack up prices therefore making people steal their products. I support Napster and any other dl program.

 

[Guest]

That's an awfully naive thing to say.

but yet its true.

 

[RawHumor]

I dont see how thats relevent.
Companies jack up prices therefore making people steal their products.

Wow. That might just be the dumbest thing I've read on Lit in months.

 

[Guest]

Wow. That might just be the dumbest thing I've read on Lit in months.

and your posts reek of ignorance and greed. GFY

 

[RawHumor]

and your posts reek of ignorance and greed. GFY

Read the rest of my post asking if you've ever had an economics class. Companies can't charge whatever they want to. They charge a price that is carefully calculated to maximize their profits.

 

[The Heretic]

Have you ever taken an economics class? There's supply and demand curves. Companies charge the price that will maximize their overall profit (taking into account the number of items sold multiplied by the price of that item and accounting for cost of production).

If they "jack up" the prices, then they'd sell less of the product.

Exactly! I once worked for a company that charged at least twice what they should have and it was too much for the market to bear. I was the head of R&D there and I begged the principals to lower the cost significantly but they didn't understand this basic principle. If they had lowered the price they would have sold about ten times as much product and actually made a profit. Now, 5 years after I left that company they have raised the price even more, and have yet to make one cent of profit.

Successful companies (like Adobe) charge somewhere between what the market will bear and where they can make a little profit. Photoshop is a large complex image manipulation software application that is used by professionals. It has a huge and ongoing R&D cost, not to mention the support costs. It is not meant for people who just need to brighten up their home photos (there are free products that will do that just fine).

 

[Guest]

Read the rest of my post asking if you've ever had an economics class. Companies can't charge whatever they want to. They charge a price that is carefully calculated to maximize their profits.

translation: you'll pay whatever a company charges because you cant live without the product.

 

[sterlingclay]

Stocks?

I don't know too many people with stocks. That's reserved for a "higher class" citizen.

The paint brush thing. I think the overhead ratio is close enough to make the comparison.

 

[RawHumor]

translation: you'll pay whatever a company charges because you cant live without the product.

Ummmm... What kind of product can you not live without? I'm not talking about your natural gas or electric companies here. They (more or less) have a monopoly and don't really apply.

You don't NEED software, CDs, a football, or anything else. There's competition involved for your business.

 

[The Heretic]

I dont see how thats relevent.
Companies jack up prices therefore making people steal their products.

So, why aren't you out there stealing a Porsche or a diamond ring? These are high cost items too.

I would suppose the reason you don't is because such things are not as easy to steal as software or music. Face it, there is no rationalization that really makes sense - you are just a thief.

 

[sterlingclay]

Photoshop is a large complex image manipulation software application that is used by professionals. It has a huge and ongoing R&D cost, not to mention the support costs. It is not meant for people who just need to brighten up their home photos (there are free products that will do that just fine).

So what's the problem? Adobe has marked its product for profit and markets it to pros. Why care if someone touches up their own photos? It's like you don't want people to be able to take care of themselves. I bet you make a great babysitter.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Unless the law has changed drastically, I believe you are allowed to make "Archival copies" as long as you use them in that manner. I.E., if I buy a music CD I am not breaking the law or being unethical if I rip it to MP3 so I can listen to it on an MP3 player, as long as I don't give those MP3 files to someone else and as long as I am not listening to that music on two separate devices at the same time.

I do rip MP3s from time to time from CDs I buy; I want to be able to listen to them at work or when I am away from home without having to lug around a bunch of space consuming CDs.

You're right about that. I can do whatever I like with the songs that I have "leased" the right to listen to so long as I do not sell or distribute them.

Software is a bit different because sometimes I can distribute it among my own network and sometimes I have to buy a copy of it for each machine.

The unethical part is when I say, "Here, buddy, give this a listen." and pass the song on to him. Of course, I rationalize it that sometimes he wants to go out and buy the CD or that sharing a song or two across time zones is like lending a local friend the CD. But it's still wrong. I'll probably still do it, but I'm good at patting myself on the back and pretending that because I don't share with the world in general, it's okay.

 

[Guest]

So, why aren't you out there stealing a Porsche or a diamond ring? These are high cost items too.

I would suppose the reason you don't is because such things are not as easy to steal as software or music. Face it, there is no rationalization that really makes sense - you are just a thief.

who is to say I havent? Theft isnt always wrong. Yes, I can rationalize theft, just like companies can find a reason to increase prices for their products. I have more respect for a robber than Microsoft because the robber doesnt try to hide his intentions of stealing from you.

 

[The Heretic]

Stocks?

I don't know too many people with stocks. That's reserved for a "higher class" citizen.

Almost everybody who has any kind of retirement fund through their workplace, whether they be a garbage man, someone flipping a burger or a CEO, whether the fund is an IRA, 401K or wahtever, probably owns stock to one extent or another. I am an unemployed schmuck who currently lives below the poverty line - yet I own a significant amount of stock in a variety of companies. LC, who was a line assembler for an aircraft company owned stock. My kids who are just starting out own stock. My little brother who is a lowly civil servant owns stock.

The paint brush thing. I think the overhead ratio is close enough to make the comparison.

Then you haven't got a clue - I have developed, marketed and sold both hardware and software from nuts and bolts to software. The overheads are quite different with regards to where the costs lay, how many people buy the product and so on.

 

[RawHumor]

who is to say I havent? Theft isnt always wrong. Yes, I can rationalize theft, just like companies can find a reason to increase prices for their products. I have more respect for a robber than Microsoft because the robber doesnt try to hide his intentions of stealing from you.

You REALLY need to take an economics class.

If you are starving and you steal an apple form someone's yard, I can understand your justification.

If you want to create a resume' and you steal MS Office, that's not quite the same thing.

 

[sterlingclay]

"leased" the right to listen to. HA!

Sorry KM, but isn't that a crock of shit? Any up and coming artist is just thrilled to have someone listen to their new song. They practically beg for an audience. Cash and overpopulation make Earth less fun than it could be.

 

[Guest]

have you ever recorded something off the radio or TV? If you have, then you have stolen something.
I'll keep saying it, theft isnt always wrong.

 

[sterlingclay]

Almost everybody who has any kind of retirement fund through their workplace, whether they be a garbage man, someone flipping a burger or a CEO, whether the fund is an IRA, 401K or wahtever, probably owns stock to one extent or another. I am an unemployed schmuck who currently lives below the poverty line - yet I own a significant amount of stock in a variety of companies. LC, who was a line assembler for an aircraft company owned stock. My kids who are just starting out own stock. My little brother who is a lowly civil servant owns stock.

Then you haven't got a clue - I have developed, marketed and sold both hardware and software from nuts and bolts to software. The overheads are quite different with regards to where the costs lay, how many people buy the product and so on.

Ok, I forgot about good ol' CPP. Every tax paying Canadian has it. I plan on stocking up on stocks in the next five years. As a stock holder, I'll pay attention to which companies have a clue and ditch those that don't. That much I can handle, but I still don't like this whole cash issue. Rather irratating evolution of survival of the fittest.

So I guess the guys making paint brushes are smarter for getting into that business rather than technology right? I mean, if the over head is lower they must be making a killing.

 

[The Heretic]

who is to say I havent? Theft isnt always wrong. Yes, I can rationalize theft, just like companies can find a reason to increase prices for their products. I have more respect for a robber than Microsoft because the robber doesnt try to hide his intentions of stealing from you.

I have absolutely no respect for thieves - for one thing I have no choice about whether a thief steals from me, whereas if I don't want to deal with a company due to their high product prices or some other aspect of their service, I can go elsewhere. There is not one single product that MS makes that you can't find some roughly equivalent and competitive product out there from someone else - often for less or even free. Don't want Windows? Go with MacOS or Linux. Don't want Word/Office? Go with Star Office or something equivalent.

Nobody is forcing you or me to steal software or content from microsoft or any other software company, on the other hand I and other software developers, vendors/providers don't have the same choices when someone steals from us; we can't say "no, we choose not to have you steal from me" because we don't have the option of not dealing with you. If we want to make a living at what we enjoy we have to make our products appealing and usable to our customers - that makes us vulnerable to people like you who don't have the moral fortitude to resist stealing from us.

 

[The Heretic]

have you ever recorded something off the radio or TV? If you have, then you have stolen something.

Actually, that is not theft; I paid for that content already, and by law if I record it for later viewing or listening then I have that right. The difference is that software is not broadcast by the software vendor.

I'll keep saying it, theft isnt always wrong.

You can keep saying it all you want - but repetition of a falsehood isn't going to make it true.

 

[Guest]

that makes us vulnerable to people like you who don't have the moral fortitude to resist stealing from us.

lets talk about companies that steal from the public- Enron, Microsoft, Tyco, etc. Can you justify what they do?

 

[Tungwagger]

at least I am not a company that jacks up prices to screw customers. Yeah, how noble of them to overprice their products.

You could always practice the freedom of choice aspect..don't buy it!