Do you "Steal" computer software?

[P. B. Walker]

You're not too up on copyright law, are you?

I don't own the song. I own the CD and I own the right to listen to those songs. I do not own the song and I cannot do anything I want to with it.

I own the "right" to listen to to the song, so basically I've "leased" the music. I do not own the song itself.

It's interesting to see you keep trying to justify your way out of being nothing more than a thief. Your lack of morals and ethics and the way you keep trying to blame software giants for your lack of morals and ethics is really indicative of the general lack of personal accountability prevelant in today's society.

Rationalize away. You're still a thief when you break copyright law.

This is also one of the guys that thinks Bush is the modern Hilter.



PBW

 

[Spinaroonie]

hay guys

I warzed the UPS Package tracker

Now I can track your packages.

Be afraid


P.S. KillerMuffin, your bicycle pump is currently in topeka, KS. and will arrive on Wed.

 

[P. B. Walker]

hay guys

I warzed the UPS Package tracker

Now I can track your packages.

Be afraid


P.S. KillerMuffin, your bicycle pump is currently in topeka, KS. and will arrive on Wed.

What about my Zappa CD? I've been waiting for that fucker for a week and a half.

 

[estevie]

Nope, never stolen any software. I've never even dowloaded music. I buy all my stuff.

There was this one time in jr high that I was with friends at the mall, they were stealing stuff left and right. I caved to the peer pressure and stole some lipstick. It was horrid, I was panicked and felt sick to my stomach. We didn't even get home before I threw it out the window.

I can't steal. *shrugs*

 

[Lancecastor]

You're not too up on copyright law, are you?

I don't own the song. I own the CD and I own the right to listen to those songs. I do not own the song and I cannot do anything I want to with it.

I own the "right" to listen to to the song, so basically I've "leased" the music. I do not own the song itself.

It's interesting to see you keep trying to justify your way out of being nothing more than a thief. Your lack of morals and ethics and the way you keep trying to blame software giants for your lack of morals and ethics is really indicative of the general lack of personal accountability prevelant in today's society.

Rationalize away. You're still a thief when you break copyright law.

The Internet enabled an entire generation of people to rationalize that information and music and software...anything that could be digitized...wanted to be "free".

The word "free" is always the Big Lie.

The only reason air is still free is because nobody's figured out how to get a meter inside our noses for billing purposes...yet.

Lance

 

[Ishmael]

Theft is theft. Music, software, whatever. It cannot be morally justified by any means.

The fact that you have judged the price to be to steep is not an excuse to steal.

There are ways that you can come by the software or music at significantly lower prices. Just takes a little knowlege of the law and a little shopping around.

But to determine by some arbitrary rationalization that you have the right to deprive others of their livelihood because you feel that you are being cheated is the lowest of excuses.

Why not just get a production CD burner and start selling copies on your own? You are doing exactly the same thing on a lesser scale when you steal copyrighted material.

Ishmael

 

[sterlingclay]

I'm not trying to justify a damn thing. I do what society allows. I found a grey border and I stay within. Did I say I liked it? No. You want to label me, go right ahead.

 

[KillerMuffin]

You actually aren't legally allowed to videotape a movie off of HBO or when you get pay-per-view. However, there is simply no way to legally redress the issue so they never do anything. They can't prove you did it and it's not worth the effort to check to see if you've got a bootlegged copy of Driving Miss Daisy.

It's like fanfic you see all over the place. Those Buffy and Star Trek smut stories that people write all over the web. Those are totally illegal, derivative works can only be written with permission from the copyright holder.

You are permitted to purchase video tapes, books, and music and make copies for your own personal use. You are not legally allowed to make copies for your friends--even if you derive no profit from it.

The facts are very simple.

When you break copyright you are stealing. When you say that you're entitled to break that law because software giants make so much money, you are still stealing. When you say that because software giants are thievs themselves and that justifies your actions, you are still stealing.

Theft is theft. There is simply no way to justify copyright piracy or theft in a way that gets you ethically "off the hook." When you pirate or steal software/music/video/print/whatever, you are stealing. When you blame someone else for your actions, you're being childish thief.

You're thieves, guys. You can either be a man about it, which you aren't, and be honest or you can be a child. There is no grey area whatsoever.

 

[The Heretic]

so why is dl'ing music considered stealing? Lets not have double standards.

The reasoning is that when you download the music you are not paying for it. If I listen to music on the TV or on radio (which I often do because I have satellite TV and I pay for a number of digital music channels) I either pay for it via my subscriber fees or via the fees that the broadcasters are paying to the content providers - one way or another the content is paid for whether I listen to it live or later on playback.

When I download music it isn't paid for - it is taken without payment to or permission of the owner. That is the definition of stealing.

BTW, I am not a lawyer so lets not get into details.

Then don't try to tell me what the law is if you don't want to get into details.

 

[The Heretic]

Damn this city blows. Is that a fresh copy of XP or an upgrade? Cause that's about $290 (CAN) plus 14% tax in my neck of the woods.

That is a "fresh" copy.

 

[KillerMuffin]

The Internet enabled an entire generation of people to rationalize that information and music and software...anything that could be digitized...wanted to be "free".

The word "free" is always the Big Lie.

The only reason air is still free is because nobody's figured out how to get a meter inside our noses for billing purposes...yet.

Lance

I'm going to go have to hang myself now. No, wait. I'll shoot you instead. I'm agreeing with you. The world is ending isn't it? Someone dropped a bomb and nuclear winter with Milquetoast the Cockroach shortly to be crowned emperor of the only surviving species is a few pretty mushroom clouds away. Right?

Gack.

Ethics. Agree with Lance. Ethics. Agree with Lance. Ethics. Agree with Lance. There is just so nothing like a crappy dilemma.

 

[Lancecastor]

I'm going to go have to hang myself now. No, wait. I'll shoot you instead. I'm agreeing with you. The world is ending isn't it? Someone dropped a bomb and nuclear winter with Milquetoast the Cockroach shortly to be crowned emperor of the only surviving species is a few pretty mushroom clouds away. Right?

Gack.

Ethics. Agree with Lance. Ethics. Agree with Lance. Ethics. Agree with Lance. There is just so nothing like a crappy dilemma.

Oh stop it. We agree about stuff all the time, Sue Ellen.

JR

 

[Guest]

one way or another the content is paid for whether I listen to it live or later on playback.
NO IT ISNT


When I download music it isn't paid for - it is taken without payment to or permission of the owner. That is the definition of stealing.
WRONG AGAIN

Then don't try to tell me what the law is if you don't want to get into details.

and you're not a lawyer either so dont be so fucking condescending. You cant justify companies ripping off the public.
Look at my sig.

 

[sterlingclay]

I'm going to go have to hang myself now. No, wait. I'll shoot you instead. I'm agreeing with you. The world is ending isn't it? Someone dropped a bomb and nuclear winter with Milquetoast the Cockroach shortly to be crowned emperor of the only surviving species is a few pretty mushroom clouds away. Right?

Gack.

Ethics. Agree with Lance. Ethics. Agree with Lance. Ethics. Agree with Lance. There is just so nothing like a crappy dilemma.

Yep. Weird. KM and Lance ganging up on little ol me.
Well, I'm pretty sure I've sided with each of you individually on other occasions so I'll let this pass without upping my dosage. I guess individuality really does exist. And I was about to write off this planet.

 

[Ishmael]

There is a way that copyrighted material can be shared. It's an idea that Jerry Pournelle, the author and computer geek, had back in the 70's. No one has tried to implement it yet.

If I buy a book it becomes my property. Not the intellectual content, but the physical representation thereof. Now, I can loan you the book to read without violation of any law. But I can't copy the book and give you the copy. The difference is subtle, but still there.

So, let's say that I can send you a piece of software to use. In doing so, it disappears from my machine. When you are done, I get the software back. It works much like your local library.

A good idea that no one has quite figured out the implementation as far as software goes.

Ishmael

 

[sterlingclay]

That is a "fresh" copy.

Amazing what some people will pay. Like I said, this copy's legit from the school, service packed and all. Don't I feel lucky.

 

[The Heretic]

You actually aren't legally allowed to videotape a movie off of HBO or when you get pay-per-view.

Actually you are - it is called "Fair Use" and "time shifting". There is no defferentiation with regards to PPV or HBO - in fact, since you actually pay for these services it can be argued that simple "time shifting" is even applicable to these services.

A simple explanation:

"Copyright Law provides for what is known as "fair use" of copyrighted material. This is the clause which allows for you to make photocopies of some materials, make quotations, etc. For video programs, this means you are allowed to tape programs from television for your own private use and archival. This does not provide for the archival of such programs for professional use, which includes classroom instruction.

"Fair use," however, does provide for a 45 day period of time subsequent to the airing and taping of a program for its use in the classroom. After this time this program may not be archived for instructional use and may no longer be used for classroom instruction without written permission from the producer of that program."

A slightly longer explanation:

Time shifting

A much longer explanation:

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/C/htmlC/copyrightlaw/copyrightlaw.htm

The law with an explanation at the bottom:

http://www.pc.cc.ca.us/graphics/Copyright_Law.html

 

[patient1]

Actually, it seems to me that Hollywood & ASCAP worked out some kind of a deal & got it codified into law that raised the price of blank tapes& gave the money to them to be distributed proportionately.

So it isn't clearly illegal to tape of the tv or radio anymore.

 

[The Heretic]

There is a way that copyrighted material can be shared. It's an idea that Jerry Pournelle, the author and computer geek, had back in the 70's. No one has tried to implement it yet.

Actually they have implemented it - with license agreements. Borland had a license agreement that basically said "treat this software like you would a book". IIRC, copyright law basically says that you can do just that; if you are using an instance of Word at work, you can go home and install the same instance on your computer at home, as long as you don't use both instances at the same time.

 

[The Heretic]

Actually, it seems to me that Hollywood & ASCAP worked out some kind of a deal & got it codified into law that raised the price of blank tapes& gave the money to them to be distributed proportionately.

So it isn't clearly illegal to tape of the tv or radio anymore.

Not just blank tapes, but also the VCRs themselves too (IIRC).

 

[Phoenyx]

Actually, it seems to me that Hollywood & ASCAP worked out some kind of a deal & got it codified into law that raised the price of blank tapes& gave the money to them to be distributed proportionately.

So it isn't clearly illegal to tape of the tv or radio anymore.

So if they add a tax to blanks CD's and tapes to compensate artists for losses then how can they claim stealing when they have received compensation allready?

 

[Guest]

copyright laws are a big grey area and I doubt you have experience in the matter.

 

[Angel]

copyright laws are a big grey area and I doubt you have experience in the matter.

Quite a few of us who's livings depend on copyright laws and the protection they give us have plenty of different experiences in the matter, thank you.

 

[Guest]

Quite a few of us who's livings depend on copyright laws and the protection they give us have plenty of different experiences in the matter, thank you.

but if I want to burn a copy of something how does that effect your job? IT DOESNT!!!!!!!!

 

[Angel]

but if I want to burn a copy of something how does that effect your job? IT DOESNT!!!!!!!!

This has nothing to do with the statement that you made above that I responded to.