Do you "Steal" computer software?

[Killswitch]

It's been brought to my attention that I am a thief for downloading music, and software programs onto my hard drive that I would otherwise have to pay money for.

I agree ....I am.

How many of you do this, and whats your feeling on the subject?


Heres a quote from me in another thread

And you know what.....I used to feel the same way you both do....but each time I go fill up my car and see that the oil companies are ripping me for another fifty cents per gallon just because its a holiday, and the Michigan State Government raises the cigarette tax another 75 cents just because they cant manage a budget any better than my 11 year old......I say screw it....Im gonna get whats mine too.

If the politicians and large companies quit ripping me off....I'll quit ripping them off....Deal?

Moral, Imoral, or could you care less?

 

[RawHumor]

They're not ripping you off by charging a higher price than they have to. You have the option of taking the bus. You have the option to not buy cigarrettes.

There's a reason why copy-protection is the business that it is and that some programs require a "key" in order to run.

That being said, I've done it and might do it again in the future, but I don't kid myself that it's my right.

 

[His_kitty]

I rationalize it.


Getting software I don't do and wouldn't do... but I do d/l songs.

Don't ask why, I know it doesn't make sense! lol

 

[DarkAngel]

Never.. That is wrong..

One should never steal software..

Now try out for a period of time.. that is a different story!

 

[lobito]

Tough call, but in the other thread, you & others are going against the Lit rules, and promoting warez sites that post warez in them. (I think it is against Lit rules)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. People who "steal" software, are the reason the rest of us who get ours legaly, have to pay such high prices.

Take Photoshop for instance. I have to pay hundreds of dollars for upgrades (if I choose to upgrade), while others get the program(s) for free. Those others, probably don't know what they are doing using Photoshop, when they can use cheap programs to do what they really want. Photoshop isn't for everyone, it takes a long time to learn, and time equals money in my business. Granted if I do the right project, I can pay for a years worth of upgrades with the one job, but the point is, it costs me, where those stealing, it doesn't cost them a damned thing.

Yeah Gas & Software & CD's are way over priced, but it's business, and as long as people are stealing, the price isn't going to go down. It'll only continue to go up.

 

[Killswitch]

They're not ripping you off by charging a higher price than they have to. That being said, I've done it and might do it again in the future, but I don't kid myself that it's my right.

First of all I never said it was my right.......and I never said it WAS right......but its pretty coooool!

And the obvious question is....why do gas proces go up during peak travel times like the holidays.....is it because they Have to....or Want to.......

If I am a greedy bastard....then I learned that somewhere......I wonder were I could have learned that?

 

[RawHumor]

And the obvious question is....why do gas proces go up during peak travel times like the holidays.....is it because they Have to....or Want to.......

It's supply and demand, mixed with greed, of course. They know that people will be traveling more so they know that people will be WILLING to pay more.

 

[Killswitch]

It's supply and demand, mixed with greed, of course. They know that people will be traveling more so they know that people will be WILLING to pay more.

WILLING to pay more......what choice do you have when it comes to fuel prices?

It's highway robbery......Thievery, Greed, and it teaches me baaaaaad lessons.

Im a good student though.

 

[Guest]

I see nothing wrong in downloading software or music. This is the technology age and there are many loopholes, take advantage of them.
Big biz can take the hit so screw 'em.

 

[RawHumor]

Big biz can take the hit so screw 'em.

So it's okay if I steal merchendise from Walmart?

 

[Guest]

So it's okay if I steal merchendise from Walmart?

sure, just dont get caught.

 

[RawHumor]

sure, just dont get caught.

So what's the cut-off line between a company that you can morally steal from and one which you cannot?

 

[Killswitch]

So it's okay if I steal merchendise from Walmart?

Quit making so much sens RH....Damn I knew someone would say that....DOH



And like I said in a diff thread I believe there is technology that these companies could use to make it impossible to upload this music, and transfer the software proggies.....that is until some 12 year old hacker figures out how to bust it up.

 

[Guest]

So what's the cut-off line between a company that you can morally steal from and one which you cannot?

I have/would steal from big companies-Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc. I wont steal from mom n' pop stores because they can barely afford the rent and loss of merchandise.

 

[sterlingclay]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. People who "steal" software, are the reason the rest of us who get ours legaly, have to pay such high prices.

No, not entirely true. You back me up in the next paragraph.

Originally posted by lobito
Take Photoshop for instance. I have to pay hundreds of dollars for upgrades (if I choose to upgrade), while others get the program(s) for free. Those others, probably don't know what they are doing using Photoshop, when they can use cheap programs to do what they really want. Photoshop isn't for everyone, it takes a long time to learn, and time equals money in my business. Granted if I do the right project, I can pay for a years worth of upgrades with the one job, but the point is, it costs me, where those stealing, it doesn't cost them a damned thing.

The high prices are for businesses intending to make money off of said programs. Folks like me don't make anything off of these programs. I use them recreationally. It's like buying a paint brush for $50. It does not cost that much to make and distribute, but the manufacturer expects its customers to turn around and make a profit of that brush. It's justifacation from their side of the table.

 

[Killswitch]

So what's the cut-off line between a company that you can morally steal from and one which you cannot?

The difference is I think....that wal mart actually protects their goods......the software companies do not.....I think its a marketing strategy actually....although I could be wrong........but why dont they use technologies and whatever to make it impossible to upload a program like photoshop for example.

Note....I have a cd by a band called The Deftones....I cant get five feet from my disc drive with that cd and my computer bugs out....they have something encoded on the cd that makes it impossible to even play let alone upload on my computer........

 

[RawHumor]

I'm not trying to be the downer here, but it's similar to when people say that rich people should pay whatever tax that we want them to pay just because they're rich.

Stealing is stealing. Everyone has to put dinner on the table.

I've written software that we marketed and sold. We used one of those keys just because it would make copying the software a pretty big pain in the ass. We had to include the cost of the key in the software, so the customers who paid for it had to pay for their own copy protection.

 

[RawHumor]

I have/would steal from big companies-Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc. I wont steal from mom n' pop stores because they can barely afford the rent and loss of merchandise.

Wow. How noble of you.

 

[sterlingclay]

So what's the cut-off line between a company that you can morally steal from and one which you cannot?

When you intend to cash in on the goods. Keep in mind, not everyone knows how to do this cracking thing.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I've downloaded music off of Napster. I didn't even question the ethics of it, I just thought it was great. And then the recording artists started the legal processes against it. I got all pissy about losing my source of free music for a while. Blathering about how the artists "sold out" and all that rationalization fun. I was mostly pissy because they are right.

So, I went out and bought the CDs to all of the songs I wished to keep and deleted the rest. I quit downloading anything but marked freeware.

I will swap a song here and there with good friends, mostly because it's difficult to share music over distances when I can't pop my CD into their stereo.

It's not ethical to do it and it is stealing and wrong. It's no different than any other petty larceny. I don't have the right to do it anymore than I have the right to walk into someone's home and take whatever I want. No matter how much I can't stand recording industry giants or software giants or how badly they gouge/rip off the consumer, I simply cannot see where stealing from them makes me a better person. Two wrongs do not make it right. It just makes me wrong, too.

I do rip all my CDs to my computer simply because it's easier to listen to it that way than to swap CDs out all of the time or to put up with long periods of silence while the 100 disc CD changer hops from song to song and disc to disc.

 

[The Heretic]

The high prices are for businesses intending to make money off of said programs. Folks like me don't make anything off of these programs. I use them recreationally. It's like buying a paint brush for $50. It does not cost that much to make and distribute, but the manufacturer expects its customers to turn around and make a profit of that brush. It's justifacation from their side of the table.

Umm, a paintbrush doesn't cost millions of dollars to develop. The last company I worked for had a little over 100 employees so it wasn't a "large" company - and the project I worked on cost well over a million to develop. There are a lot of other costs beyond distribution of software; there is R&D (a major cost), the cost of advertising, the cost of documentation, the cost of support (a major and ongoing cost). These costs don't stop at the release and distribution; almost all software has continuing costs of R&D (for the next version, for bug fixes), and for support. There are also all the infrastructure costs (brick and mortar); the costs of having a phone line or website where someone can go to get support, the offices to house the people who provide ongoing R&D, service and support.

Software is not free, and neither is content (music, etc.). When you steal either one you are stealing something that someone else owns, and all of the rationalization posted in this thread and that I have heard elsewhere is just as false as if it were applied to a car, a boat, or someone's household goods.

Moreover, who do you think owns those "big companies"? The little people who put their retirement savings or their children's educational funds into the stock market. You are stealing from those people, not some nameless corporation.

 

[sterlingclay]

Great way to kill a thread KM. But the rationalization argument - for or against - is only an opinion in the free world.

I still say music is free. It beats within.

 

[RawHumor]

Moreover, who do you think owns those "big companies"? The little people who put their retirement savings or their children's educational funds into the stock market. You are stealing from those people, not some nameless corporation.

That's sigline worthy.

I wish more people understood that.

 

[The Heretic]

The difference is I think....that wal mart actually protects their goods......the software companies do not..

So if I don't lock the door on my house well enough this justifies you coming and stealing my stereo? I somehow deserve it?

...I think its a marketing strategy actually....although I could be wrong........but why dont they use technologies and whatever to make it impossible to upload a program like photoshop for example.

I explained why such technology is not desireable from either the vendor's or user's point of view, beyond that explanation, such protection actually makes the software more expensive; the hardware key or software schemes used to protect software add raw cost and hidden costs (more testing and more support costs).

 

[Guest]

Wow. How noble of you.

at least I am not a company that jacks up prices to screw customers. Yeah, how noble of them to overprice their products.