Do you "Steal" computer software?

[RawHumor]

lets talk about companies that steal from the public- Enron, Microsoft, Tyco, etc. Can you justify what they do?

How did Microsoft steal from the public?

 

[The Heretic]

So I guess the guys making paint brushes are smarter for getting into that business rather than technology right? I mean, if the over head is lower they must be making a killing.

I didn't say the overhead was lower on either side - I said the overhead costs were different. Managed properly software products can make more profit than hardware products, sometimes immensely so, but they aren't free and they have their own set of ongoing costs. The fact that I can get Win XP for $180 is astounding! It used to be that if I wanted such a complex and comparatively high quality OS I would have had to pay thousands of dollars. I don't mind that because MS can distribute their costs over millions of customers they make a lot of profit. That profit doesn't come from charging too much for their product but because they have done a very efficient job of marketing and therefore have acheived a very high market share. I may not like how they accomplished that task, but I am not going to compromise my ethics and steal from them, then rationalize such an unethical action with flawed logic that I know is false.

 

[Guest]

Actually, that is not theft; I paid for that content already, and by law if I record it for later viewing or listening then I have that right. The difference is that software is not broadcast by the software vendor.

actually, yes it is. Look up copyright laws.
Tung, thats an option but what fun is that?

 

[Angel]

actually, yes it is. Look up copyright laws.
Tung, thats an option but what fun is that?

Generally you can record and play back things off of the Television for personal use - you can not resell, charge others for viewing it or otherwise profit from your personal recording of it.

 

[The Heretic]

lets talk about companies that steal from the public- Enron, Microsoft, Tyco, etc. Can you justify what they do?

Let's:

Enron basically no longer exists and a number of people lost their jobs and/or are probably going to jail.

Microsoft hasn't stolen anything that I know of, but they have violated the law and are now paying over a billion dollars in fines.

Tyco I am not that familiar with, but I imagine appropriate penalties will be enforced.

Moreover, I don't justify unethical behavior on my part by pointing to other people's unethical behavior.

 

[sterlingclay]

I didn't say the overhead was lower on either side - I said the overhead costs were different. Managed properly software products can make more profit than hardware products, sometimes immensely so, but they aren't free and they have their own set of ongoing costs. The fact that I can get Win XP for $180 is astounding! It used to be that if I wanted such a complex and comparatively high quality OS I would have had to pay thousands of dollars. I don't mind that because MS can distribute their costs over millions of customers they make a lot of profit. That profit doesn't come from charging too much for their product but because they have done a very efficient job of marketing and therefore have acheived a very high market share. I may not like how they accomplished that task, but I am not going to compromise my ethics and steal from them, then rationalize such an unethical action with flawed logic that I know is false.

Holy crap! $180? It's almost $700 here after tax. The upgrade pack is about half that. (good thing I got a freeby from school)

I know overhead costs are different. I was taking about the ratio aspect. R&D probably takes the biggest chunk of cost, where marketing research is included. I just used the paint brush as an example. I could have just as easily pointed to the music industry and CD's. 2cent CD with 15 songs would run me in $20. I likely wouldn't even like half the tunes on it.

 

[The Heretic]

actually, yes it is. Look up copyright laws.

Actually, as a software developer and content provider, I am very familiar with copyright law - I suggest you do the looking up as your understanding is at best flawed.

 

[sterlingclay]

Generally you can record and play back things off of the Television for personal use - you can not resell, charge others for viewing it or otherwise profit from your personal recording of it.

Yep. I look at software the same way.

 

[Tungwagger]

actually, yes it is. Look up copyright laws.
Tung, thats an option but what fun is that?

Okay, now I'm lost....

You justify stealing because your perception is that because companies make a profit (in your mind, insanely huge profits), that they can afford it.

But then you turn around and claim to do it for the thrill of getting away with it?

We all know that companies who have to protect their products will do so, if theft becomes a major issue. But by your advocating stealing, don't you realize that it just adds to the cost of the product? No matter how much this country or individuals try to screw a company with theft, ultimately it's the consumers who don't steal that wind up paying more for it..

 

[Tungwagger]

Holy crap! $180? It's almost $700 here after tax. The upgrade pack is about half that. (good thing I got a freeby from school)

I know overhead costs are different. I was taking about the ratio aspect. R&D probably takes the biggest chunk of cost, where marketing research is included. I just used the paint brush as an example. I could have just as easily pointed to the music industry and CD's. 2cent CD with 15 songs would run me in $20. I likely wouldn't even like half the tunes on it.

I could be wrong, but aren't there websites where you can pay for the service of downloading only the songs you want? For the same $20, I'm betting you can get 15 songs you do like, and then some.

 

[Angel]

Yep. I look at software the same way.

Most software companies don't give you permission to do so the way programs, movies and others do. That is the difference.

There are quite a few software companies out there that will give freebies or very, VERY cheap programs out to students or non-profit orgs and other people/groups, and they are the same (Full, not evaluation) versions as they sell for hundreds of dollars.

I know Adobe has done it in the past, it's how I got my very first copy of Photoshop. I don't know about Jasc.

 

[Guest]

Okay, now I'm lost....

You justify stealing because your perception is that because companies make a profit (in your mind, insanely huge profits), that they can afford it.

But then you turn around and claim to do it for the thrill of getting away with it?

no, I said if I have to steal something I will.
BTW, Heretic, I am well aware of copyright laws being as my sister-in-law is a CR lawyer who tells me about the gray areas of the law.
Do you like the taste of crow?

 

[The Heretic]

So what's the problem? Adobe has marked its product for profit and markets it to pros. Why care if someone touches up their own photos? It's like you don't want people to be able to take care of themselves. I bet you make a great babysitter.

I don't care if you use Photoshop to touch up home photos - but it is like buying a Cray supercomputer so you can do email, but I do expect you not to steal either one.

 

[lobito]

I'm glad I stopped with my first response in this thread. I just knew it would be a bunch of bullshit spewing to justify stealing.

I've got much more important things to argue at lit about, like with HKBJ. I can hardly wait till he logs on again...

(looks at watch, taps fingers on the desk)

 

[Guest]

I'm glad I stopped with my first response in this thread. I just knew it would be a bunch of bullshit spewing to justify stealing.

more often than not its companies stealing from the public.

 

[sterlingclay]

I could be wrong, but aren't there websites where you can pay for the service of downloading only the songs you want? For the same $20, I'm betting you can get 15 songs you do like, and then some.

In my sick diluted world, music is and should always be free. I'd pay to see concerts, I'd pay for clubs, but there's an added alure there and equipment and facilty costs to look out for. Live shows don't last forever so the promoter only has one shot of making cash back and feeding the band. I don't see a problem with paying five bucks for a new disk but 20? That's just crazy talk. If I ever pay for music, it's at a second hand store. It's unfortunate that bit of cash does not return to the artists, but paying more than that is unreasonable, speaking as a consumer and not a thief.


I don't like the money driven society we live in, even though it's the best option we have at this point. If I had a business you can be sure everything would be payed for legit. But as a consumer, my best deal is a download. All I spend is time.

 

[The Heretic]

BTW, Heretic, I am well aware of copyright laws being as my sister-in-law is a CR lawyer who tells me about the gray areas of the law.
Do you like the taste of crow?

I wouldn't know what the taste of crow is like - I haven't eaten any yet; in the US it is well recognized that we have the legal right to videotape television shows for later viewing. We also have the legal right to make archival copies of other content for later viewing. If you have case law to dispute that assertion then post it.

 

[The Heretic]

Holy crap! $180? It's almost $700 here after tax. The upgrade pack is about half that. (good thing I got a freeby from school)

You can get Win XP for $180 (USD) or less anywhere in the US. For about $700 you can get a pretty good computer with monitor thrown in.

 

[Guest]

I wouldn't know what the taste of crow is like - I haven't eaten any yet; in the US it is well recognized that we have the legal right to videotape television shows for later viewing. We also have the legal right to make archival copies of other content for later viewing. If you have case law to dispute that assertion then post it.

so why is dl'ing music considered stealing? Lets not have double standards.
BTW, I am not a lawyer so lets not get into details.

 

[Angel]

misposted

oops.

 

[Lancecastor]

Stealing computer software is like stealing a car.

Easier, but it's still theft. I'm against it.

That being said, for those of you who steal from Microsoft, you can google warez group postings of registration codes if your copy doesn't have one.

Lance

 

[sterlingclay]

You can get Win XP for $180 (USD) or less anywhere in the US. For about $700 you can get a pretty good computer with monitor thrown in.

Damn this city blows. Is that a fresh copy of XP or an upgrade? Cause that's about $290 (CAN) plus 14% tax in my neck of the woods.

$700 USD... I could keep what I have now "under the hood" but trade in my monitor for an LCD display. Not bad, but seems on par here. Then again, I know how to build and where to shop.

edited to add: this doesn't include an OS but throw in Linux to feel honest

(getting lazy with the piracy. I'm too laid back to care past this point. I do what I do. Pay where I can, take what's readily available)

 

[sterlingclay]

Stealing computer software is like stealing a car.

Easier, but it's still theft. I'm against it.

That being said, for those of you who steal from Microsoft, you can google warez group postings of registration codes if your copy doesn't have one.

Lance

How's that go again? LOL? yeah, lol.
That was funny.

 

[Spinaroonie]

The only time I feel that it's justified is vaporware. When there ISN'T a company that you can give money to.

 

[KillerMuffin]

"leased" the right to listen to. HA!

Sorry KM, but isn't that a crock of shit? Any up and coming artist is just thrilled to have someone listen to their new song. They practically beg for an audience. Cash and overpopulation make Earth less fun than it could be.

You're not too up on copyright law, are you?

I don't own the song. I own the CD and I own the right to listen to those songs. I do not own the song and I cannot do anything I want to with it.

I own the "right" to listen to to the song, so basically I've "leased" the music. I do not own the song itself.

It's interesting to see you keep trying to justify your way out of being nothing more than a thief. Your lack of morals and ethics and the way you keep trying to blame software giants for your lack of morals and ethics is really indicative of the general lack of personal accountability prevelant in today's society.

Rationalize away. You're still a thief when you break copyright law.