If they raise the minimum wage, tip %'s should go down

[julybaby04]

Exactly how many lying ascriptions are you going to make against me? Jesus is disappointed in you.

In reality I have a master's in social work with a focus on children and families. I worked for a few years in group homes, foster care, and as an in-home therapist with the goal of strengthening at-risk familes and keeping them together. And then when I stopped being a social worker I went on to run two family advocacy clinics which basically meant I was still a social worker. Concern for children and parents is of utmost professional as well as personal interest to me, so I'm sorry but you're going to need a new line of bogus attacks against me because you really flubbed this one.



It doesn't matter what's going on in your town because we're talking about the nation as a whole.



Minimum wage has been raised many times on both the state and local level and prices have never spiked in reaction to it, nor has unemploment. So you need to explain why now is any different or admit you have no point at all. Or that you're thinking with your feelings again.



And on a personal level I agree with you. But we're talking about a macro-level and you can't just say that everyone should get a higher education because then low-paying jobs would magically vanish.



Earlier in this post you argued the notion that there are more workers than jobs and then a couple paragraphs later you say the economy is so bad that people should thank their lucky stars they have a job. How do you expect anyone to respond when you're arguing both positions at the same time?

First, thank you for the work you have been doing while being a Social Worker and such! This country truly needs good ones!

The nation as a whole has issues that relate to their own specific city or state, as well as the whole nation. So, it does matter that there are jobs, even minimum wage ones, and people make a choice not to work.

Someone brought up raising min. wage to $20/hour. THAT will affect the prices of things. This was all speaking hypothetically and I was just go with that number as it had been used.

Lower paying jobs will never vanish...and should not vanish. They are there for a specific reason....to help new people get into the work force with little or no job experience......and to supplement someone's income. It was never meant to be a sole source of income to sustain a family.

The economy (as a whole) is bad. Unemployment is high. There are jobs available, as I mentioned (yes, in my little part of the world)...and yes, people would rather get a free check than work for min. wage. I mentioned that people employed should be thankful.......and they should!

 

[RjThoughts]

The federal minimum wage canard is being dregged up again, mainly to force the Republicans to either cave in to the stupidity or allow the media and Republiphobes to characterize them once again as "meanies" who "don't care about the poor or downtrodden" (the Big Lie). Yet, the minimum wage is the biggest crock ever. Who exactly gets minimum wage? Teenagers and others just starting out in their first job, a few people starting over in a new industry getting in at the ground floor, some illegal aliens, and people who actually make a buttload of money from tips such as waitresses.

Raising the minimum wage, while not even helping a statistically significant percentage of the population, does cause prices on many everyday items to increase which particularly hurts those making slightly or somewhat above the minimum wage, the non-minimum wage working poor especially, while the "tip rich" jobs like waitresses get a double benefit (higher base salary and the inflation caused by the increase added to the price of restaurant food causing the overall bill to increase and thus the tip to increase percentage wise).

So, here's the deal, if the min wage is raised yet again, for political reasons, I propose the suggested tip % for restaurants be reduced from the current 15-20% back down to 10% as it was historically. Same with a corresponding reduction in other fields where tips are customary. Seems only fair, doesn't it?

the FEDERAL minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13/hour!! Most states have kept it, and most restaurants, including your 4-stars, have their servers at that rate, and even rarely raise it.

You, "Sir", are clueless.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Werd...except I'm on most iggy list.

And I'll give it to merc...but Rob can, has and will again be just as childish, pig headed and asinine as the RWJC. He's like KB's left wing doppelganger. Usually over the same hot button issues too...borderline hystarical partisan hacks all of them, to them their party is right before the issue is even mentioned, and could NEVER do any wrong and nothing anyone could ever say nor any evidence/proof of wrong doing EVER be sufficient enough to change their minds about it either.

IDK I just figured you would have gone with a slightly more level headed/not so " (D) = GOD, OBEY!" narrow example of a GB lib.

Really he can't. That's the proof that for all your bluster you're actually a righty. LJ is the ONLY person on the left who can even approach the RWCJ. Even at his worst (and he gets bad) Zumi isn't in the same ball park as Jen, Vette or Miles. There just isn't a comparison.

It's just like saying "they both do it" in the media. Even if you count Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow they don't add up to Beck, Rush, Brietbart, Hannity, or that blonde chick. Not in number of hours on the air, not in outrageous comments, nothing.

Also the fact that you think the Left around here think the Dems can do no wrong just shows you either don't pay attention or don't ever ask questions. Probably both. I don't know anybody who isn't dissapointed with Obama on a number of issues. The problem is that on a scale of 1-10 (just to keep it simple) most of the Dems seem to want something between 2 and 3 and Obama is a solid 5 and REpublicans are offering between a 6 and an 11 (with Romney as a 5.5). Why the hell would someone who wants Gitmo shut down vote for someone who openly supports GITMO and wants to go to war with Iran vs someone who at least claims to want to shut it down and seems reluctant to go to Iran? At worst we end up in Iran.

 

[mercury14]

First, thank you for the work you have been doing while being a Social Worker and such! This country truly needs good ones!

The nation as a whole has issues that relate to their own specific city or state, as well as the whole nation. So, it does matter that there are jobs, even minimum wage ones, and people make a choice not to work.

Someone brought up raising min. wage to $20/hour. THAT will affect the prices of things. This was all speaking hypothetically and I was just go with that number as it had been used.

Lower paying jobs will never vanish...and should not vanish. They are there for a specific reason....to help new people get into the work force with little or no job experience......and to supplement someone's income. It was never meant to be a sole source of income to sustain a family.

The economy (as a whole) is bad. Unemployment is high. There are jobs available, as I mentioned (yes, in my little part of the world)...and yes, people would rather get a free check than work for min. wage. I mentioned that people employed should be thankful.......and they should!

People who take low paying jobs still need to survive though. As the char on page 1 tells us, the vast majority of people working in them are adults. What we have is a situation where a person working on a low paying job actually qualifies for welfare even though they work. And this has the impact of lowering wages further. Walmart knows that it can pay its workers next to nothing with minimal benefits because the government will help pick up the tab. And they know if one of their workers' families needs medical care there's a good chance they'll be poor enough to qualify for Medicaid.

And you need to pick a position and keep it. Are there not enough jobs or are there plenty of jobs and people who are looking for jobs just aren't applying for them?

 

[mercury14]

LJ is the ONLY person on the left who can even approach the RWCJ.

For some reason Botany isn't distinguish between the folks with a political ethos and folks who are whack-a-doodle. It's always kind of puzzled me.

 

[Sean Renaud]

And personal feeling aside LJ isn't nearly is much closer to Ish or Garbagecan than he is Jen, Miles or Busybody.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Werd...except I'm on most iggy list.

And I'll give it to merc...but Rob can, has and will again be just as childish, pig headed and asinine as the RWJC. He's like KB's left wing doppelganger. Usually over the same hot button issues too...borderline hystarical partisan hacks all of them, to them their party is right before the issue is even mentioned, and could NEVER do any wrong and nothing anyone could ever say nor any evidence/proof of wrong doing EVER be sufficient enough to change their minds about it either.

IDK I just figured you would have gone with a slightly more level headed/not so " (D) = GOD, OBEY!" narrow example of a GB lib.

Awwww, somebody is still butthurt months after I pointed out the hypocrisy of his preaching the Gospel of Bootstrappiness while receiving a government check each month.

 

[julybaby04]

People who take low paying jobs still need to survive though. As the char on page 1 tells us, the vast majority of people working in them are adults. What we have is a situation where a person working on a low paying job actually qualifies for welfare even though they work. And this has the impact of lowering wages further. Walmart knows that it can pay its workers next to nothing with minimal benefits because the government will help pick up the tab. And they know if one of their workers' families needs medical care there's a good chance they'll be poor enough to qualify for Medicaid.

And you need to pick a position and keep it. Are there not enough jobs or are there plenty of jobs and people who are looking for jobs just aren't applying for them?

I said there were jobs here.....at local fast food places....the signs are in the windows.

Yet, the unemployment rate for the country is very high.....so you tell me......why won't people take jobs available?....even if not getting the money they use to?

I will say this, I understand that adults work in the minimum wage jobs. I work with those people. But I also know that, from my personal experience, that is not their only job. Most have at least two.

As far as Walmart, in the example you use, I do not recall anyone forcing a person to apply and work there. If they are not happy with the wage, either find another job or increase their skill level.

Let me go back to my own experience for a second. I work at a place for one specific reason. I have expenses related to my son's Senior year in high school, which this job is paying for. It is a minimum wage job. However, I have worked there for only about 5 months and they have asked me (twice) to become a manager which would result in a pay of $10/hour. Now, if I were looking for full time employment there, I would take that. But, it is a second income source, for a particular purpose, and I will be finished there in May.

My point of bringing that up is, the place where I work knows I am honest, reliable, and a hard worker. It did not take long to be offered more money and more responsibility. If people do not like the money they make, then they need to do something about it. Being a good worker goes a long way in moving up that ladder, so to speak.

I think you can go into any fast food place, and find many workers who could care less that they are there. Some will be complaining, some will look like that have not washed their uniform in a few days, etc. Work ethics come from within. People need to understand that to do better requires self determination and being responsible for their own selves.

You will also notice that those who work hard, often are not there long as they have moved to other jobs.

 

[RjThoughts]

I said there were jobs here.....at local fast food places....the signs are in the windows.

Yet, the unemployment rate for the country is very high.....so you tell me......why won't people take jobs available?....even if not getting the money they use to?

I will say this, I understand that adults work in the minimum wage jobs. I work with those people. But I also know that, from my personal experience, that is not their only job. Most have at least two.

As far as Walmart, in the example you use, I do not recall anyone forcing a person to apply and work there. If they are not happy with the wage, either find another job or increase their skill level.

Let me go back to my own experience for a second. I work at a place for one specific reason. I have expenses related to my son's Senior year in high school, which this job is paying for. It is a minimum wage job. However, I have worked there for only about 5 months and they have asked me (twice) to become a manager which would result in a pay of $10/hour. Now, if I were looking for full time employment there, I would take that. But, it is a second income source, for a particular purpose, and I will be finished there in May.

My point of bringing that up is, the place where I work knows I am honest, reliable, and a hard worker. It did not take long to be offered more money and more responsibility. If people do not like the money they make, then they need to do something about it. Being a good worker goes a long way in moving up that ladder, so to speak.

I think you can go into any fast food place, and find many workers who could care less that they are there. Some will be complaining, some will look like that have not washed their uniform in a few days, etc. Work ethics come from within. People need to understand that to do better requires self determination and being responsible for their own selves.

You will also notice that those who work hard, often are not there long as they have moved to other jobs.

Minimum wage fast food jobs pay SQUAT! Not enough to live on IF you're unmarried and with no kids. You seem to be out of touch with low paying jobs.

Get another job? So work two jobs, say for $8/hr, for 60 hours a week, that's $480/week BEFORE taxes. That's not enough to live on.

 

[julybaby04]

Minimum wage fast food jobs pay SQUAT! Not enough to live on IF you're unmarried and with no kids. You seem to be out of touch with low paying jobs.

Get another job? So work two jobs, say for $8/hr, for 60 hours a week, that's $480/week BEFORE taxes. That's not enough to live on.

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to "live" on. It is meant to be a place to start.

....and I have a minimum wage job, so I know exactly how much I get. I have another job that pays more......because it would not be enough to raise a family!

 

[Sean Renaud]

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to "live" on. It is meant to be a place to start.

....and I have a minimum wage job, so I know exactly how much I get. I have another job that pays more......because it would not be enough to raise a family!

Yes it is, that's why it's called the minimum wage. It's meant to be the minimum amount you can live on. It's not supposed to be a starting point, it's supposed to be sustainable.

 

[RjThoughts]

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to "live" on. It is meant to be a place to start.

....and I have a minimum wage job, so I know exactly how much I get. I have another job that pays more......because it would not be enough to raise a family!

There are people that can NOT get anything other than minimum wage jobs. That's it!

 

[RobDownSouth]

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to "live" on. It is meant to be a place to start.

Unless you have links or facts to document your claim, I'll presume you are lying.

 

[mercury14]

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to "live" on.

So you're saying people in minimum wage jobs shouldn't be able to live, nor should they take the shameful step of receiving government assistance. Your vision for America is truly fucked up. Why do you hate George Washington and Jesus?

 

[mercury14]

I said there were jobs here.....at local fast food places....the signs are in the windows.

Yet, the unemployment rate for the country is very high.....so you tell me......why won't people take jobs available?....even if not getting the money they use to?

I will say this, I understand that adults work in the minimum wage jobs. I work with those people. But I also know that, from my personal experience, that is not their only job. Most have at least two.

As far as Walmart, in the example you use, I do not recall anyone forcing a person to apply and work there. If they are not happy with the wage, either find another job or increase their skill level.

Let me go back to my own experience for a second. I work at a place for one specific reason. I have expenses related to my son's Senior year in high school, which this job is paying for. It is a minimum wage job. However, I have worked there for only about 5 months and they have asked me (twice) to become a manager which would result in a pay of $10/hour. Now, if I were looking for full time employment there, I would take that. But, it is a second income source, for a particular purpose, and I will be finished there in May.

My point of bringing that up is, the place where I work knows I am honest, reliable, and a hard worker. It did not take long to be offered more money and more responsibility. If people do not like the money they make, then they need to do something about it. Being a good worker goes a long way in moving up that ladder, so to speak.

I think you can go into any fast food place, and find many workers who could care less that they are there. Some will be complaining, some will look like that have not washed their uniform in a few days, etc. Work ethics come from within. People need to understand that to do better requires self determination and being responsible for their own selves.

You will also notice that those who work hard, often are not there long as they have moved to other jobs.

You're still confused. Individuals finding themselves better jobs is great for them. But it doesn't alter the composition of available jobs in any way.

I understand that you have a second job to help your family but the fact is you're taking up two jobs while others struggle to find even one. When people have to do what you're doing in large numbers it creates a significant economic problem during times when unemployment is high.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

So you're saying people in minimum wage jobs shouldn't be able to live on their income, nor should they take the shameful step of receiving government assistance? Your vision for America is truly fucked up. Why do you hate George Washington and Jesus?

I am not sure that minimum wage should be equated with a living wage.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Awwww, somebody is still butthurt months after I pointed out the hypocrisy of his preaching the Gospel of Bootstrappiness while receiving a government check each month.

I never preached the Gospel of Bootstrappiness...I preached against blatantly wasteful spending on bullshit we don't need and simply cannot afford. I preach against a power hungry government working in league with greed driven corporations to fuck everyone as hard as they can within the bounds of the law (our HC system and the MIC come to the front of most minds but there are fine examples all around) I preach against million dollar vegas parties....

YOU took it upon yourself to think that b/c I don't think we should be paying big pharma 10,000 fuckin' dollars for a 30 dollar inhaler that we should just let the sick die in the streets. YOU took it upon your self to assume that when I call bullshit a 35 million dollar HS with a food ball stadium like that of a state university says their kids are illiterate b/c they don't have enough funding that I'm anti education. etc etc etc....oh what was the bill that nutty bitch pelosi wanted? 10,500 dollars a year to every woman in america for pay equality??HAHAHA I call bullshit on that and it was either you or Irezumi that deemed me a sexist hater on the spot.... Was it you? I think it was.....right...like I said...your as fucking nuts as the RWJC who call me a flaming liberal when I call bullshit on their bullshit too. So at least you aren't alone...you're in good company!!

That is NOT preaching bootstrappiness no matter how bad you want it to be rob....I'm sorry. There is a difference....the fact you can't tell the difference between the two only proves the point of my previous statement, you're a bat shit hack.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I never preached the Gospel of Bootstrappiness...I preached against blatantly wasteful spending on bullshit we don't need and simply cannot afford. I preach against a power hungry government working in league with greed driven corporations to fuck everyone as hard as they can within the bounds of the law (our HC system and the MIC come to the front of most minds but there are fine examples all around) I preach against million dollar vegas parties....

YOU took it upon yourself to think that b/c I don't think we should be paying big pharma 10,000 fuckin' dollars for a 30 dollar inhaler that we should just let the sick die in the streets. YOU took it upon your self to assume that when I call bullshit a 35 million dollar HS with a food ball stadium like that of a state university says their kids are illiterate b/c they don't have enough funding that I'm anti education. etc etc etc....oh what was the bill that nutty bitch pelosi wanted? 10,500 dollars a year to every woman in america for pay equality??HAHAHA I call bullshit on that and it was either you or Irezumi that deemed me a sexist hater on the spot.... Was it you? I think it was.....right...like I said...your as fucking nuts as the RWJC who call me a flaming liberal when I call bullshit on their bullshit too. So at least you aren't alone...you're in good company!!

That is NOT preaching bootstrappiness no matter how bad you want it to be rob....I'm sorry. There is a difference....the fact you can't tell the difference between the two only proves the point of my previous statement, you're a bat shit hack.

You were preaching the Gospel of Bootstrappiness every single day here until it was pointed out that you were nothing more than a Government Mooch.

Now you're re-writing history to es-plain what you "really" meant.

Peddle your nostrums elsewhere, Moochito, the peoples here aren't buying.

 

[mercury14]

I am not sure that minimum wage should be equated with a living wage.

According to the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) it is. The FLSA created a mandatory federal minimum wage of 25 cents an hour in order to maintain a "minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency and general well-being".

 

[RjThoughts]

According to the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) it is. The FLSA created a mandatory federal minimum wage of 25 cents an hour in order to maintain a "minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency and general well-being".

Don't be bringing in facts in here!!!!

 

[mercury14]

Don't be bringing in facts in here!!!!

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to "live" on.

My guess is that July will move the goal posts in a hurry.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You were preaching the Gospel of Bootstrappiness every single day here until it was pointed out that you were nothing more than a Government Mooch.

You just keep telling yourself that, and calling me a mooch even though I clearly handed you your fuckin' ass in that argument (your extreme butthurt being the obvious reason you still call me moochie) but it simply doesn't make it true derpina...you can say it a million times....still bullshit.

Now you're re-writing history to es-plain what you "really" meant.

Peddle your nostrums elsewhere, Moochito, the peoples here aren't buying.

More crazy fantasy land constructed in your head...."He's not a bleeding heart lib to the extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem!!! NOT LOCK STEP WITH MSN???MUST BE TEA PARTY!" you're a fucking nut rob.....You're the one who re-wrote history....I have been rather liberal since day 1, pro UHC, education, choice, equal rights.....

But just because I support those things does not mean I will defend any half ass'ed, corrupt as all fuck piece of shit legislation that gives me crumbs for billions to the end of time just b/c it's left wing and "At least it's a step in the right direction." like your dumb lemming ass will. But that obviously makes me a Right Wing crazy doesn't it?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Yeah - but that was 1938.

A living wage in Montgomery, Alabama for a single person with one child is around $18/hr in Middlesex County in Mass it is around $25. I am not sure people working at a sub shop should be making $18-$25 an hour. That would be $37K up to $52K/yr. How could any small retailer stay in business?

Here is the calculator I found. Pretty interesting. I say leave the min wage for the Feds where it is and let the States determine on their own if it should be higher.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/

 

[mercury14]

Yeah - but that was 1938.

A living wage in Montgomery, Alabama for a single person with one child is around $18/hr in Middlesex County in Mass it is around $25. I am not sure people working at a sub shop should be making $18-$25 an hour. That would be $37K up to $52K/yr. How could any small retailer stay in business?

Here is the calculator I found. Pretty interesting. I say leave the min wage for the Feds where it is and let the States determine on their own if it should be higher.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/

The purpose of the law is to create a livable wage policy, that hasn't changed since 1938. If you leave it where it is then before long inflation means it's not a livable wage. What the states choose to do or not do is irrelevant.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

The purpose of the law is to create a livable wage policy, that hasn't changed since 1938. If you leave it where it is then before long inflation means it's not a livable wage. What the states choose to do or not do is irrelevant.

I understand what you are saying. And it does have a certain logic. But today an $18-$25 minimum wage is bad public policy.

President Clinton signed the law that lets the states set their own minimum wage, so yet things have changed since 1938, and what the states choose to do is relevant. Have a look at the regional swing in cost of living and calculated living wage by state and county. It would be impossible to set the minimum wage at the federal level in the interest of setting it at a living wage because the gap is so large by region. It can only be effectively managed at the state level.