If they raise the minimum wage, tip %'s should go down

[Joeybagadonuts]

The federal minimum wage canard is being dregged up again, mainly to force the Republicans to either cave in to the stupidity or allow the media and Republiphobes to characterize them once again as "meanies" who "don't care about the poor or downtrodden" (the Big Lie). Yet, the minimum wage is the biggest crock ever. Who exactly gets minimum wage? Teenagers and others just starting out in their first job, a few people starting over in a new industry getting in at the ground floor, some illegal aliens, and people who actually make a buttload of money from tips such as waitresses.

Raising the minimum wage, while not even helping a statistically significant percentage of the population, does cause prices on many everyday items to increase which particularly hurts those making slightly or somewhat above the minimum wage, the non-minimum wage working poor especially, while the "tip rich" jobs like waitresses get a double benefit (higher base salary and the inflation caused by the increase added to the price of restaurant food causing the overall bill to increase and thus the tip to increase percentage wise).

So, here's the deal, if the min wage is raised yet again, for political reasons, I propose the suggested tip % for restaurants be reduced from the current 15-20% back down to 10% as it was historically. Same with a corresponding reduction in other fields where tips are customary. Seems only fair, doesn't it?

stfu renard

 

[mercury14]

I understand what you are saying. And it does have a certain logic. But today an $18-$25 minimum wage is bad public policy.

President Clinton signed the law that lets the states set their own minimum wage, so yet things have changed since 1938, and what the states choose to do is relevant. Have a look at the regional swing in cost of living and calculated living wage by state and county. It would be impossible to set the minimum wage at the federal level in the interest of setting it at a living wage because the gap is so large by region. It can only be effectively managed at the state level.

That's an unworkable idea because it would create a race to the bottom, with some states' labor laws starting jobs at $0 per hour. Other states would have to choose between making their minimum wage also unlivable or face a significant economic advantage.

 

[MatthewVett]

The federal minimum wage canard is being dregged up again, mainly to force the Republicans to either cave in to the stupidity or allow the media and Republiphobes to characterize them once again as "meanies" who "don't care about the poor or downtrodden" (the Big Lie). Yet, the minimum wage is the biggest crock ever. Who exactly gets minimum wage? Teenagers and others just starting out in their first job, a few people starting over in a new industry getting in at the ground floor, some illegal aliens, and people who actually make a buttload of money from tips such as waitresses.

Raising the minimum wage, while not even helping a statistically significant percentage of the population, does cause prices on many everyday items to increase which particularly hurts those making slightly or somewhat above the minimum wage, the non-minimum wage working poor especially, while the "tip rich" jobs like waitresses get a double benefit (higher base salary and the inflation caused by the increase added to the price of restaurant food causing the overall bill to increase and thus the tip to increase percentage wise).

So, here's the deal, if the min wage is raised yet again, for political reasons, I propose the suggested tip % for restaurants be reduced from the current 15-20% back down to 10% as it was historically. Same with a corresponding reduction in other fields where tips are customary. Seems only fair, doesn't it?

No one makes you tip. You can tip whatever you want, and face the consequences of your actions.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Tipping may not be legally required but it's sure as fuck socially demanded. The only people I rarely tip are delivery boys and even that depends on my mood. It's just ironic that the more annoyed I am the more likely I am to tip just to get the person to go away.

 

[renard_ruse]

Doc, why do you keep trying to preach sense to these people? Just out of curiosity?

Yeah, if we want propaganda we can turn on the mainstream news or read Huff Post or whatever.

 

[renard_ruse]

I was listening to Hannity on the way home from work the other day about this. His point was that minimum wage is for inexperienced workers so it's okay that they're paid next to nothing. Then a caller asked him if new workers need to survive and feed their families and Hannity was unable to acknowledge the question, much less answer it.

And when Hannity can't address a question neither can Lit's conservatives. Whenever I tune in to that show all of the day's talking points are immediately posted on Lit. But the conservatives swear that they don't listen to Hannity. It's just a coincidence.

The minimum wage is already not next to nothing. Its very high.

Its funny, I used to consider myself a social conservative, economic liberal back in the day. I supported minimum wage when laissez-faire types said it should be abolished. I still support it but its just way too high for what its supposed to do. Somehow, I've become an economic conservative without changing my views. Its interesting.

 

[mercury14]

Yeah, if we want propaganda we can turn on the mainstream news or read Huff Post or whatever.

You were destroyed on page one. Unless you have some kind of response even vaguely involving facts then you're best off staying out of this thread.

 

[mercury14]

The minimum wage is already not next to nothing. Its very high.

Its funny, I used to consider myself a social conservative, economic liberal back in the day. I supported minimum wage when laissez-faire types said it should be abolished. I still support it but its just way too high for what its supposed to do. Somehow, I've become an economic conservative without changing my views. Its interesting.

It's supposed to be a livable wage and it's way too low for that.

You haven't become an economic conservative, you just started thinking stupid things that aren't real. Which I guess is mostly the same thing as being an economic conservative.

 

[renard_ruse]

Haha, you guys are posting in a Renard thread.

FWIW, waiters and bartenders do not usually earn minimum wage. They earn a lower rate, based on the expectation that they will be earning tips. IRS taxes those tips at the rate they expect people to make. (No idea what it is now, but when I was bartending back in the stone age, I think it was 9%. IIRC, it went up to 13% or 15% just after I left. But I'm sure Lit has at least one waiter or bartender who can chime in.)

F***, now I posted in a Renard thread.

I went full Renard.

Dude, the thread is not talking about taxes, its about minimum wage.

I know a waitress that makes minimum wage. Do you have any stats on what percentage do or do not?

 

[renard_ruse]

A minimum wage increase would reduce or eliminate a lot of need for SNAP, WIC, HUD, and Medicaid resources. And for the record I don't think we should keep upping it every few years, I think we need to set it at something minimally livable and then tie it to inflation or cost of living and be done with it.

Yet, we're told in Rob's post that even waitresses don't make minimum wage. So why is it such a big deal, other than to score emotional political points against the hated Republicans?

As I said, its those making just above minimum wage who get screwed the most. I know, I lived that reality in the 90s.

 

[renard_ruse]

It's supposed to be a livable wage and it's way too low for that.

You haven't become an economic conservative, you just started thinking stupid things that aren't real. Which I guess is mostly the same thing as being an economic conservative.

No, its supposed to get people's foot in the door. Most normal, competent employees get raises within a reasonable period of time or they look elsewhere.

 

[renard_ruse]

You were destroyed on page one. Unless you have some kind of response even vaguely involving facts then you're best off staying out of this thread.

Um, no, the thread was won in the original post.

 

[mercury14]

No, its supposed to get people's foot in the door. Most normal, competent employees get raises within a reasonable period of time or they look elsewhere.

No, you're making things up. You're acting like made-up things you pull out of your ass are as good as facts, bro. Since I already posted this and you ignored it let me use giant font this time.

Roosevelt passed the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) in 1938 with an initial minimum wage set at 25 cents an hour, declaring that a minimum wage must me established to create a "minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency and general well-being."

There's nothing in the law about it being a foot in the door wage, nor is there any evidence did Roosevelt intend it as such. The entire purpose of the FLSA was to have jobs become sufficient for well- being and if you heard otherwise then you were simply lied to.

 

[renard_ruse]

No, you're making things up. You're acting like made-up things you pull out of your ass are as good as facts, bro. Since I already posted this and you ignored it let me use giant font this time.

There's nothing in the law about it being a foot in the door wage, nor is there any evidence did Roosevelt intend it as such. The entire purpose of the FLSA was to have jobs become sufficient for well- being and if you heard otherwise then you were simply lied to.

So, now we're stuck with the original intent of a law from the 1930s? Nothing like living in the past. Good grief.

 

[mercury14]

Um, no, the thread was won in the original post.

Your OP was disproved by facts. Then you slithered back and tried to salvage it and ended up getting it even further disproved.

 

[mercury14]

So, now we're stuck with the original intent of a law from the 1930s? Nothing like living in the past. Good grief.

Yes the intent of the law then is the same exact intent as today: to establish a minimum wage necessary for basic necessities and wellbeing. Although it's much too low for that, so low that people on minimum wage or even over it often fall below the federal poverty line. And the poverty line is an absurdly low benchmark for poverty.

Social security, overtime regs, basic workplace safety, and child labor bans are part of the same generation of laws. I take it you think we're "livin' in the past" because 9 year olds still can't work in steel mills.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So, now we're stuck with the original intent of a law from the 1930s? Nothing like living in the past. Good grief.

Laws have expiration dates? Who knew?

When does the 2nd amendment expire? Enquirin' minds want to know!

 

[julybaby04]

You're still confused. Individuals finding themselves better jobs is great for them. But it doesn't alter the composition of available jobs in any way.

I understand that you have a second job to help your family but the fact is you're taking up two jobs while others struggle to find even one. When people have to do what you're doing in large numbers it creates a significant economic problem during times when unemployment is high.

Not confused....just doing what I have to do for my family.

I understand that jobs are not plentiful everywhere, but I know they exist here....and yet people choose to not work.

Also, I do what I do so I do not have to be on welfare. That is the choice I make.

 

[Ishmael]

If a minimum wage increase affects only a tiny insignificant percentage of workers then its impact on consumer prices will also be insignificant.



And you'll all ignore this but here's who makes minimum wage:


http://cnnmoneytalkback.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/chart-minimum-wage-be43a51.jpg?w=614&h=798

Another round of meaningless stats. While they appear to have relevance, they truly don't.

How many of those 'adult women' are supplementing family income? How many are single mothers with no education to speak of? How many of those graduates took useless courses? No actuarial worthy of the name would place any particular value on any of the information you provided.

Re. Vette's comment about raising the min. to $20/hr. Back in the early 2000's one of, if not the, last of the Clinton era min. wage increases kicked in. I was running around firing up a new biz. and I used to hit 7-11 once in a while to get their 2 hot dogs for 99 cent special. The day the increase kicked in the price was $1.19 for 2. I asked the clerk how she liked her raise? Of course, she was quite happy, and then I pointed at the price sign. Prices had gone up all over town at the labor intensive concerns virtually wiping out the small, taxable, raise the beneficiaries of the law realized.

And he's right about the bracket creep as well. The ignorant get hosed while the truly wealthy laugh all the way to the bank. Truly amazing to watch.

Ishmael

 

[RobDownSouth]

See Ish Spin. Spin, Ish, Spin!

Another round of meaningless stats. While they appear to have relevance, they truly don't.

That's right, sweetie, any pesky facts and stats that don't support your argument are "meaningless".

They're MEANINGLESS, DAMMIT!

 

[renard_ruse]

Your OP was disproved by facts. Then you slithered back and tried to salvage it and ended up getting it even further disproved.

Disproven by facts?

How do you figure that?

 

[renard_ruse]

Laws have expiration dates? Who knew?

When does the 2nd amendment expire? Enquirin' minds want to know!

Is minimum wage in the Bill of Rights? You want it in there, pass an amendment.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Is minimum wage in the Bill of Rights? You want it in there, pass an amendment.

So laws have expiration dates unless they're Constitutional amendments? Is that what you're saying now?

 

[renard_ruse]

So laws have expiration dates unless they're Constitutional amendments? Is that what you're saying now?

Pretty much.

 

[Sean Renaud]

When do the laws against murder expire? I figure I'll have a very narrow window to work with.