Divorce and Separation

[Arden]

I am glad that you can laugh, I have learned that I better agree and go along with whatever he says at times like that. He is bigger than me and he has physically attacked me before. The only safety I feel is to be able to lock myself in our bedroom and wait for him to cool down. And of course I push him to do that. I have a Ph.D. in psychology and I know these are classic signs and yet here I am in the middle of it. But if I leave him now, I have no doubt that he will have a breakdown.

Psyche,

This really bothers me.

I know that you want to be supportive, but may I offer a suggestion for your own safety? Put together a small suitcase with necessities for survival if you ever need to flee from violence. Clothes, car keys, a duplicate phone book, legal papers, banking and credit information... Keep it at a friends home, just in case you need to leave quickly.

Your safety is far more important than anything else in this world, friend.

 

[psyche]

psyche

I try to be positive when I drop my two cents worth here, but I try to be realistic too. You have admitted your weaknesses... but if he doesn't realize that part of his baggage is his temper, and if he won't match the effort you put into saving your marriage... you may have insurmountable barriers.

"If I make him so fucking angry and miserable why the fuck can't he just let me go?"

Maybe he loves you, maybe he is afraid of being alone. But if he can't start helping you to be happy, and if he doesn't show the love he is professing, how can he ever win your love back?

Do something today for you... you deserve it.

I know it is bad when I get kind words from someone and I can do nothing but cry.....He needs so much from me that it has been a long time since he has treated me with any kindness or love.

 

[psyche]

Psyche,

This really bothers me.

I know that you want to be supportive, but may I offer a suggestion for your own safety? Put together a small suitcase with necessities for survival if you ever need to flee from violence. Clothes, car keys, a duplicate phone book, legal papers, banking and credit information... Keep it at a friends home, just in case you need to leave quickly.

Your safety is far more important than anything else in this world, friend.

Arden,
I have thought of doing that many times, but then I am admitting to myself that I am staying in a situation that I shouldn't be in. I will do it though and thank you.

 

[psyche]

Belle, darlin',

Have you been reading my journal again?
Somehow, you always seem to say something that strikes a chord with me , whether it is here or way over there.
hugs to you

Yes, it took me five years to actually leave. I was afraid of what he would do if I left. I was also afraid of living with the guilt of failing if I didn't try everything I could. Six months before I left, I finally told him, "the shit is going to change or things are going to change. If you can't possibly change, I am leaving." The conversation was with regard to his angry outbursts, temper tantrums and threats.

I felt liberated after having said that. It was as if I had finally woke. Until that point, I struggled wiht trying to get through the next day and the thought of fourty more years in that situation. But in those words I found the reality which was, I could do what I needed to do and I really was the one in control.

Six months later, no change. I did an anger management plan with him, begged him to go to his doctor, did everything I could at home to give him NO reason to be angry and always failed and never left him alone with the children. Ever.

His last outburst was very out of control and he wanted to hit me. He never did. That sealed it. It was a matter of when, not if. HIs feeling is and was, "That is how men handle their anger."

February 20th was the date I left. ON Valentine's day the week before, he bought me a dozen long stemmed roses. He then ranted until I gave him half of the money for the flowers. That was it. That was when.

I was afraid, but arranged to leave when he was working. I left him a note. The first month was the most difficult because he couldn't handle himself. He made serious threats to my life when discussing money and stalked me, indirectly. (He paged me a dozen times a day to see where I was.) I threatened him with an Order of Protection and his behavior stopped. Then, he realized it was over and moved on.

So yes, I know fear.
I will tell you this. Since the divorce I have faced many challenges and crisis. Never, have I wished myself back with him.
Never.
Even when the crisis were financial.

Now, that is a bit about me.

Are you sorry you asked?

When he is out of control, I think about packing eveything I need while he is at work and driving away. I could never leave while he was here. I don't know when my point will come. We need to hear your story and know that we are not the only ones who have faced this, you had the courage to do it and I may have it someday too.

 

[wordsmithe]

For psyche

Promise to stick around only until his counseling is in full swing... then the depression should go away, and the suicidal tendencies. Then give him his chance to be himself... but if the man who emerges doesn’t treat you any better, then you can part without guilt.

And remember, guilt is a horrid gift from someone else... you need not keep it if it doesn’t fit.

Be careful, too.

ANd maybe you should try to focus on things that make you happy today... perhaps leave this thread for a bit, and look for some laughs outside... or here

 

[psyche]

Re: For psyche

Promise to stick around only until his counseling is in full swing... then the depression should go away, and the suicidal tendencies. Then give him his chance to be himself... but if the man who emerges doesn’t treat you any better, then you can part without guilt.

And remember, guilt is a horrid gift from someone else... you need not keep it if it doesn’t fit.

Be careful, too.

ANd maybe you should try to focus on things that make you happy today... perhaps leave this thread for a bit, and look for some laughs outside... or at <a href="http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103902"> this silly thread</a>

wordsmithe, you are like a lifeboat in a stormy sea....

 

[wordsmithe]

Re: Re: For psyche

wordsmithe, you are like a lifeboat in a stormy sea....

Dear one, my boat is full of holes, but today I can bail faster than it seeps in!

 

[Arden]

When I started looking around this house and hating it and hating to come home from work, I pretty much knew then that I was tired of the conflict. When I started thinking about what it would be like to live alone and that I could do it, I knew. When I really looked at him and realized that the love I had was no longer there, I knew. I still don't have the courage to leave. He is suicidal at times, and I could not leave him now. But it takes a lot out of me to be here, and to go on day to day.

If he has suicidal tendencies, and little or no control over his anger, he could get to the point where he decides to do something about it and take you down with him.

As with alcoholism, you often have to allow the problematic person to hit rock bottom before they will even admit to a problem. Even then, they will resist assistance because of years of warped thinking patterns.

As much as it hurts you, you may ultimately have to leave him and allow him to hit rock bottom. He may need some type of treatment program to allow him to function as a whole being again.

Are you enabling him to not have to change by being so supportive? Be very careful how you percieve the situation. You have a longstanding emotional investment in the marriage, and want to help, but are you putting yourself in harms way by trying to help?

Again, your personal safety comes first. You can live alone... and be happy on your own, so long as you keep friends within your life that will be supportive of you.

 

[psyche]

Re: Re: Re: For psyche

Dear one, my boat is full of holes, but today I can bail faster than it seeps in!

LOL! Well, honey, mine sank a while back!

 

[psyche]

If he has suicidal tendencies, and little or no control over his anger, he could get to the point where he decides to do something about it and take you down with him.

As with alcoholism, you often have to allow the problematic person to hit rock bottom before they will even admit to a problem. Even then, they will resist assistance because of years of warped thinking patterns.

As much as it hurts you, you may ultimately have to leave him and allow him to hit rock bottom. He may need some type of treatment program to allow him to function as a whole being again.

Are you enabling him to not have to change by being so supportive? Be very careful how you percieve the situation. You have a longstanding emotional investment in the marriage, and want to help, but are you putting yourself in harms way by trying to help?

Again, your personal safety comes first. You can live alone... and be happy on your own, so long as you keep friends within your life that will be supportive of you.

When I told him I don't love him any more it was a turning point and he has seen our doctor and he is just starting to take Prozac, but it will be a while before it will help and then you hope it is the right medication for him. He has also admitted to having a problem. He has an appointment with a psychologist. I will plan a way to get out if things get out of control, and I will leave. But I do feel that if I walk out now he would do something drastic, and I could not live with that.

 

[mbb308]

Psuche, Dear, I'm so sad for you that the reunion had to include a visit from Mr. Hyde. You really didn't need that.

See if you can cozy up to this and make it yours - intellectually and at a gut level, too - real acceptance. You did nothing to cause his tantrum - not a single thing. If an adult male - some days the term seems oxymoronic - forgets his jacket which he needs for the function he is attending, it is 100% his fault. When I went out to dinner last night, I was the one responsible for being sure I had put on my shoes and my wallet in my pocket - not the neighbors, or my mother, or my exes - no one but me. When he throws a tantrum like that, he feels bad about himself, but he is also pulling your chain, and he knows it. I watched my father do that same crap to my mother for 15-20 years. They finally split up 18 years ago - she got over it and he didn't, and he is alone today, with damned little life.

Dad always made Mom responsible for everything. When he got canned from one of his last jobs, he blamed her for making him leave one 15 years before. Objection! Relevance? Sustained!!! Just one example of what she put up with for 29 years, starting on their honeymoon.

If you choose to leave, you are also not responsible for anything he says or does. You are in charge of you, and he runs his life. If it comes to that, clear your conscience - I think you have enough evidence to make a sound choice, and you can feel good about yourself for having made it.

I didn't know he was hostile and violent. I have nearly inserted myself into a situation such as that - he didn't hit her, either. He needs help, and maybe a deadline for improvement, with the caveat that if he lays a finger on you, all bets are off, and then you move out, or throw him out.

Arden's advice to keep an emergency flight case was wonderful. Do it immediately, if not sooner. It's so too late if he hurts you (that pisses me off, too!).

Don't justify anything about him - he is a big boy and supposedly in control of himself. You live your life the best you can. Don't believe that peanut butter is shoe polish, either.

And I was just passing through....

Bless you - and be good to yourself, please.

 

[Playtimes fun]

Pondering the last two days of comments......

 

[psyche]

Psuche, Dear, I'm so sad for you that the reunion had to include a visit from Mr. Hyde. You really didn't need that.

See if you can cozy up to this and make it yours - intellectually and at a gut level, too - real acceptance. You did nothing to cause his tantrum - not a single thing. If an adult male - some days the term seems oxymoronic - forgets his jacket which he needs for the function he is attending, it is 100% his fault. When I went out to dinner last night, I was the one responsible for being sure I had put on my shoes and my wallet in my pocket - not the neighbors, or my mother, or my exes - no one but me. When he throws a tantrum like that, he feels bad about himself, but he is also pulling your chain, and he knows it. I watched my father do that same crap to my mother for 15-20 years. They finally split up 18 years ago - she got over it and he didn't, and he is alone today, with damned little life.

Dad always made Mom responsible for everything. When he got canned from one of his last jobs, he blamed her for making him leave one 15 years before. Objection! Relevance? Sustained!!! Just one example of what she put up with for 29 years, starting on their honeymoon.

If you choose to leave, you are also not responsible for anything he says or does. You are in charge of you, and he runs his life. If it comes to that, clear your conscience - I think you have enough evidence to make a sound choice, and you can feel good about yourself for having made it.

I didn't know he was hostile and violent. I have nearly inserted myself into a situation such as that - he didn't hit her, either. He needs help, and maybe a deadline for improvement, with the caveat that if he lays a finger on you, all bets are off, and then you move out, or throw him out.

Arden's advice to keep an emergency flight case was wonderful. Do it immediately, if not sooner. It's so too late if he hurts you (that pisses me off, too!).

Don't justify anything about him - he is a big boy and supposedly in control of himself. You live your life the best you can. Don't believe that peanut butter is shoe polish, either.

And I was just passing through....

Bless you - and be good to yourself, please.

God, there are times when I feel that I am so fucked up. You are right and yet I do feel it is me who forgets the jacket - because he tells me I forgot it, I can't find something, I did this or that... He has told me for years if only _______ then I would be happy.....and of course it has yet to happen. I worked part-time for years because an academic position when you are tied to an area is very hard to find, he holds that over my head like a weight. His mantra then was If you only had a full time job........and I told him and told him that when I do find that job that he would not be happy because things would not be perfect around the house, like I was able to keep them when I was working part time. Well, now I have that full time job, and now I spend too much time on my job and not enough on our relationship, and the house of course is not perfect. I love my job and he is jealous of that, so he picks at me and makes me feel like shit so I can be unhappy too.

 

[KnightWing]

To all....

I'm sorry to hear of everyones problems and troubles. I wish there was more that I could do, but for now, know that I care about each and every one of you.
I am having problems myself, but compared to most of yours, mine is nothing.

If I can ever give any help other than what I have read here, I will post it. Just know that I am here reading and hoping for each of you, that you have the strength to do what you want.

Many of you have said, "You have to make yourself happy" or "Go have a good laugh"
My trouble is that for the past 12 years that happiness has included my wife. And the laugh...well I miss that.
I just have to find me again...and start over.

(Now what did I do with that guy......)

 

[MissTaken]

Re: To all....

I'm sorry to hear of everyones problems and troubles. I wish there was more that I could do, but for now, know that I care about each and every one of you.
I am having problems myself, but compared to most of yours, mine is nothing.

If I can ever give any help other than what I have read here, I will post it. Just know that I am here reading and hoping for each of you, that you have the strength to do what you want.

Many of you have said, "You have to make yourself happy" or "Go have a good laugh"
My trouble is that for the past 12 years that happiness has included my wife. And the laugh...well I miss that.
I just have to find me again...and start over.

(Now what did I do with that guy......)

You may found that the "you" you find is a completely different person than you thought it was.

I am sorry to hear that you, also, are facing these challenges.

Take care and hugs

from someone who thinks YOU are pretty special.

Miss T

 

[Imi]

His arguement and justification for his behavior is that if only he could depend on me to do things, he wouldn't have to get so angry at me.

Okay, that line really pisses me off. No one can make you angry unless you allow them to. It's obvious that he doesn't take responsibility for his own actions.

I think Arden has the right of it. You are enabling him by staying. And you are only perpetuating the myth that a person is responsible for someone else (minor children notwithstanding) by saying that you can do something about him if you stay.

*hugs* and wishes that you find the courage to treat yourself with the respect you deserve. And that you pack that survival bag for the moment you hit the wall.

 

[psyche]

Re: To all....

I'm sorry to hear of everyones problems and troubles. I wish there was more that I could do, but for now, know that I care about each and every one of you.
I am having problems myself, but compared to most of yours, mine is nothing.

If I can ever give any help other than what I have read here, I will post it. Just know that I am here reading and hoping for each of you, that you have the strength to do what you want.

Many of you have said, "You have to make yourself happy" or "Go have a good laugh"
My trouble is that for the past 12 years that happiness has included my wife. And the laugh...well I miss that.
I just have to find me again...and start over.

(Now what did I do with that guy......)

Baby, I am betting that you will find someone. And that guy that your looking for is a very nice man and a very good friend.

 

[mbb308]

God, there are times when I feel that I am so fucked up. You are right and yet I do feel it is me who forgets the jacket - because he tells me I forgot it, I can't find something, I did this or that... He has told me for years if only _______ then I would be happy.....and of course it has yet to happen. I worked part-time for years because an academic position when you are tied to an area is very hard to find, he holds that over my head like a weight. His mantra then was If you only had a full time job........and I told him and told him that when I do find that job that he would not be happy because things would not be perfect around the house, like I was able to keep them when I was working part time. Well, now I have that full time job, and now I spend too much time on my job and not enough on our relationship, and the house of course is not perfect. I love my job and he is jealous of that, so he picks at me and makes me feel like shit so I can be unhappy too.

Dearest Psyche, if nobody has told you today that they love you, I do, human to human.

I can name you some of the Classic Fights from my parents' marraige, like the Great Boat Trailer License Plate Fight of 1968. The sad thing about that one was that I was the one who got the flogging for that. I was 10 and didn't cause a thing. That's when I also learned how bullying the "Sh*t rolls Downhill" theory was/is. Sad thing was, I was right, and I learned then that being right doesn't win you anything either.

This sounds similar. When Mom went back to work, and loved her job, Dad got resentful because he didn't like his, nor it him. She came to work more, and he worked less, until she got stuck with the whole thing. Dad's contribution? He did the grocery shopping - that was it. I can remember playiing out the scenario (projecting in my head) after I dropped out of college and went to work, that if anything ever happened to my mother, I would be stuck picking up her burden - and I was going to dictate new rules for the game and use the purse strings as leverage. I was 20, then, and had a younger brother still in school. Talked to Mom this morning, and she's fine.

Just because you foresaw that he was going to forget his jacket doesn't mean that you did it. What if you had forgotten your mink stole - who's fault (if it mattered) would that be? If the jacket is part of his ensemble, it is in his sphere of responsibility. I think that is open and shut. I learned that lesson at 10/11, at the unhappy hands of my mother - it was 100% my fault I left it at school, and she was 100% martyr for having to take me back to rescue it. Had I been my father, it would have been on her.

If-then statements are forever changing in the mouths of manipulators. , the then being that they'll finally be happy. My ex #2 played that one, and the if was forever changing. There is forever a new if. I decided to stop dancing, and told her I wasn't responsible for her happiness, She looked at me with shock and said, "you're NOT???" I knew I was out of luck dealing with her.

If he had hit and hurt someone on his adolescent wild ride back from your house to the reunion, the police wouldn't have had a minute's trouble figuring out whom to charge - and it wouldn't have been you. It wasn't your foot on the accelerater, Dear.

The Mother Hen in me wantsa to set you on my knee, hug you, and tell you that it'll all be okay. That isn't happening, but I can share me this way, and hope you see the parallels.

If I had a magic wand to wave so you wouldn't hurt, I surely would.

 

[psyche]

Okay, that line really pisses me off. No one can make you angry unless you allow them to. It's obvious that he doesn't take responsibility for his own actions.

I think Arden has the right of it. You are enabling him by staying. And you are only perpetuating the myth that a person is responsible for someone else (minor children notwithstanding) by saying that you can do something about him if you stay.

*hugs* and wishes that you find the courage to treat yourself with the respect you deserve. And that you pack that survival bag for the moment you hit the wall.

Imi,
Thank you. I know what you say is true, but can you imagine if I packed up and left, and he went deeper into his depression and killed himself, how I would feel. I can't leave now. I am going to wait this out and hope that the meds get him back on his feet. If there is any threat to me I will leave no matter what, and no matter what his state of mind is.

 

[MissTaken]

Psyche?

Now, I am going to brutally intrusive, or completely ingnorant if you have already posted this.

What meds is he on?

When did he start them?

How long did the doc say it would take for him to feel an effect?


I am concerned, but it may simply be my own baggage talking.

hugs

 

[psyche]

Dearest Psyche, if nobody has told you today that they love you, I do, human to human.

I can name you some of the Classic Fights from my parents' marraige, like the Great Boat Trailer License Plate Fight of 1968. The sad thing about that one was that I was the one who got the flogging for that. I was 10 and didn't cause a thing. That's when I also learned how bullying the "Sh*t rolls Downhill" theory was/is. Sad thing was, I was right, and I learned then that being right doesn't win you anything either.

This sounds similar. When Mom went back to work, and loved her job, Dad got resentful because he didn't like his, nor it him. She came to work more, and he worked less, until she got stuck with the whole thing. Dad's contribution? He did the grocery shopping - that was it. I can remember playiing out the scenario (projecting in my head) after I dropped out of college and went to work, that if anything ever happened to my mother, I would be stuck picking up her burden - and I was going to dictate new rules for the game and use the purse strings as leverage. I was 20, then, and had a younger brother still in school. Talked to Mom this morning, and she's fine.

Just because you foresaw that he was going to forget his jacket doesn't mean that you did it. What if you had forgotten your mink stole - who's fault (if it mattered) would that be? If the jacket is part of his ensemble, it is in his sphere of responsibility. I think that is open and shut. I learned that lesson at 10/11, at the unhappy hands of my mother - it was 100% my fault I left it at school, and she was 100% martyr for having to take me back to rescue it. Had I been my father, it would have been on her.

If-then statements are forever changing in the mouths of manipulators. , the then being that they'll finally be happy. My ex #2 played that one, and the if was forever changing. There is forever a new if. I decided to stop dancing, and told her I wasn't responsible for her happiness, She looked at me with shock and said, "you're NOT???" I knew I was out of luck dealing with her.

If he had hit and hurt someone on his adolescent wild ride back from your house to the reunion, the police wouldn't have had a minute's trouble figuring out whom to charge - and it wouldn't have been you. It wasn't your foot on the accelerater, Dear.

The Mother Hen in me wantsa to set you on my knee, hug you, and tell you that it'll all be okay. That isn't happening, but I can share me this way, and hope you see the parallels.

If I had a magic wand to wave so you wouldn't hurt, I surely would.

You are the sweetest mbb, today has been very painful for me in terms of looking at my situation. Your feedback has helped to give me a new perspective on my responsibility. When you are told for so long that you are the one making someone crazy I guess you eventually start believing it. You have always been supportive of me and a very good friend, and I love you too. And your sharing and stories and insights absolutely qualify you as a top notch 'mother hen'!

 

[psyche]

Psyche?

Now, I am going to brutally intrusive, or completely ingnorant if you have already posted this.

What meds is he on?

When did he start them?

How long did the doc say it would take for him to feel an effect?


I am concerned, but it may simply be my own baggage talking.

hugs

MissTaken,
I don't mind your questions since I have chosen to bare my soul on this thread to help me get through this. He is on Prozac and he just started, he hasn't even been on for a week yet. It should take about a month, and also keep in mind that all people do not respond to Prozac, so it might not even work for him.

 

[mbb308]

You are the sweetest mbb, today has been very painful for me in terms of looking at my situation. Your feedback has helped to give me a new perspective on my responsibility. When you are told for so long that you are the one making someone crazy I guess you eventually start believing it. You have always been supportive of me and a very good friend, and I love you too. And your sharing and stories and insights absolutely qualify you as a top notch 'mother hen'!

Thank you very much, Dear. I can't do your pain for you, but I canhelp you go through yours, so you don't have to do it alone - you have lots of good help right here. Read up on Dr. Goebbels' theories of promoting the Big Lie . . . it's all in the repetition. I shall continue to support you, and I will tell you my truth. It does me no good to sit on this if someone can use it to see their situation more clearly.

Mother hen? - hmmmm - cluck, cluck!!!

 

[mbb308]

Remembering dates?????

Today is the fifth anniversary of my last significant other's walking out on me.

I'm treating me to a chocolate milkshake tonight....

 

[MissTaken]

MissTaken,
I don't mind your questions since I have chosen to bare my soul on this thread to help me get through this. He is on Prozac and he just started, he hasn't even been on for a week yet. It should take about a month, and also keep in mind that all people do not respond to Prozac, so it might not even work for him.

That is what I was wondering, if he had been on meds long enough to see any results or or not.

Thanks hon.

It could be a long month for you. I respect your willingness to stick it out as well as his willingness to try.

Is there some way you to could talk about a code word or something that means he needs to take a walk or do whatever helps him calm down?

Working out a plan that empowers him to deal with his behaviors as well as recognize those things that sets him off may be a bit of help.