The Official Author's Hangout 2014 Earth Day Contest Support Thread

[lovecraft68]

I think this is running into you doth protest to loudly Dark.

If I am so off base and you have nothing to worry about then why do you need to keep digging up numbers(7 years ago, really?) and trying to prove me wrong.

If you have no worries then don't worry.

 

[RejectReality]

Yes, I know how this ploy works. Say nothing, it's an admission of guilt. Say anything, and it's an admission of guilt.

The truth is that absolutely nothing I'm saying has changed -- ever. That thread is two years before I ever won anything.

Having won a contest hasn't changed my perspective in the slightest.

I encourage everyone to click those links and read through that thread. That is what the support threads looked like before people obsessed with winning turned them into what they are today.

People supported their fellow writers with offers to first-read and edit. People supported fellow contestants by reading, voting, and commenting on their stories.

( Insert pause for inevitable "back-scratching" comment )

People supported their fellow authors when they were being trolled. People supported their fellow authors when they were struggling to finish. People offered ideas on the theme. People played around, flirted, joked, and generally enjoyed themselves throughout the contest.

When it was over, everyone congratulated the winners. Everyone enjoyed participating in the Last Place contest. And then, everyone went on to the next contest to do it all over again.

Allow me to link it again, for convenience.

Valentine's Day 2007 Support Thread

 

[squirrelzo]

Nevermind.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I simply don't see what you're attempting to accomplish.

Hm, what I am accomplishing by stating a truth you believe in and then try to spin, too?

Such a wonderful little question, isn't it?

Does citing how it's not a new revelation somehow lessen it's importance? Or, perhaps it's a service to people who haven't been around since. . . um, . . . well, there's RejectReality who first appeared in 2009. There's Darkniciad who dates back to 2005 . . . Care to go back farther back in time? Are newbies required to read every forum post ever made to fully "understand" the site?

I'm still scratching my head why repeating a fact, unadorned by explanations, cheapens it's value.

By the way, thanks again for another attempt at mis-characterizing me. For whomever may be interested, here's a link to my 07-21-2013 post which begins with the following statement: "First off, genuine, heartfelt congratulations to the winners! Winning a Lit.com contest is challenge that's worthy of recognition and praise." In same post, I go on to say, "Additionally, I refuse to suggest that my story . . . is . . . of greater merit than the work performed by the other authors." Those were two sentiments I repeated over and over again in the discussion that resulted as I tried to wrap my head around the value of scoring during a contest. Repeated as both RR and Dark was the charge that I was a sore loser.

Here's another little fun fact: the first time I raised questions about the value of seeing the scores, I had a story that scored exceptionally well. This time, I have a story that's probably going to finish in last place. Can I still qualify as a sore loser? Or, maybe we can stop the name calling, gently remind newer members not to get too wrapped up in the scores and stop misleading people?

 

[RejectReality]

So, which is it? Are you informing the newbies that the scores seen during the contest don't matter, or are you questioning them?

If you're informing, then why do you feel the need to scream it in bold letters? People have always, and will always tell newcomers not to put much stock in the scores they see during the contest duration. The purpose of providing the link is to show that it has been going on as long as I've been here. It's not a secret or a mystery.

And, from your own link, no matter how you try to spin it, you made one of the winners feel like shit.

That's because your momentary accolade was followed by a rant that questioned the validity of the same winners you'd just "congratulated".

Congratulations on your promotion! *turns to the rest of the room* You know, this company is filled with blatant nepotism and trading sexual favors for advancement.

 

[xelliebabex]

Gee wizz guys, this is a privately owned site, not the government lottery bound by on over arching set of rules.

Laurel is nice enough to run the competitions, and give us cash out of her own pocket.

Laurel's site, Laurel's rules. It that simple.

Its not a democracy. You don't get to decide how she judges the winner or even bitch about it, because its not your site. If you don't like it, don't compete, if you don't want to post here don't, its all your choice to accept the site rules as they are or walk away.

I've been one of those winners who copped a lot of flack over a story i was actually quite proud of and had it not been for survivor i wouldn't have entered again, last year.

I have long since got over it, the score didn't drop immediately afterwards as predicted and it has enough fav's that I think it speaks for itself. I hold no grudges to the people who felt it was their right to trash both me and my story both here in the forum and by email. (No I am not talking about Bucky btw before people point more fingers, his gripe was never personal unlike other people)

The only rights you have here is whether you compete or not. The rest you just have to suck up and stop worrying about how things happen behind the scenes. Its not anything to do with you, that's Laurels right to decide as the site owner.

Personally I like RR's stats I am geeky enough to think their fun. Are they deadly accurate, I dunno, but from my view of the world who cares, they're fun and take a snapshot of a moment in time.

I can also see LC and Bucky's point of view, but is it worth bitching about? NO.

Because from where I stand, its the bitching and moaning that will end the contests not the way they are run.

Good Luck everyone in this contest I truly wish you all the best

Ogg I hope you have that last place trophy handy I think I might actually have it in my grasp this time!

 

[lovecraft68]

I know your game too Dark-sorry if I call you that I don't argue with alts- and the thing is whether you believe it or not so do many others.

Unfortunately not everyone likes to post how they feel for fear of trolling, harassment or retaliation so it leaves me and a couple of others alone to say what we see.

I got 5 "is he kidding" pm's about your "gee my stories in two days before the deadline why isn't it posting" then it shows up last day. Again maybe you're telling the truth, strange things happen these days and I'm not being sarcastic. But like the boy who cried wolf if you set a pattern you're held to it.

Funny your "throwaway" stories the ones you put in certain categories and state "its not a contender" post early enough. Only your winners and near winners seem to somehow be late entries.

Again where is the one you've been working on since Feb? The one you claim you've been trying for over 2 years now? No one else has this problem beating the buzzer all the time and everyone here has a real life to deal with.

So keep tossing your numbers and telling me I'm wrong. I'm not the only one by a long shot that sees what I see. Believe me or delude yourself that's your prerogative.

Only the guilty continue to argue about things they have nothing to worry about. And as I said before I don't even call it cheating.

Its manipulating the site to the best of your advantage and you prove time and again no one here knows how well this site runs better than you. Another coincidence for you I suppose.
.

 

[TxRad]

LC, if it's not cheating then what is the problem other than your way of knocking the contests? If it is such a great strategy, why aren't you using it?

I've won a few contests in the far past. Did I think I had a chance of winning when I did? No. Every win was a surprise to me. I entered for the fun of it and didn't worry about winning. It's a free site after all.

I have probably 25 stories in my contests folders. Why aren't they finished? Not enough time to work on them. Other projects that are paying or possible paying. Real life. Time is always a problem for writing.

These contests used to be fun with the same rules and problems we have now. Everyone knows/knew the problems but that didn't stop anything. Now the same few people try and suck the fun out of everything. Keep up the good work.

 

[patientlee]

Don't cheat. Don't lie. Don't steal.

I spend a lot of my time at school trying to keep people from cheating. Here's what I tell them:

If you feel the need to say "I was just..." when I look at you, you're probably cheating.

If you feel the need to say "I'll just tell her..." when I ask you a question, you're probably lying.

If you feel the need to say "I was just borrowing..." when I ask to see what's in your hand, you're probably stealing.

Cheating is shitty. Don't do it.

 

[oggbashan]

If there is a demand, I could run the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Contest again, but it ceased because of lack of interest.

When it was running, many stories struggled to get the minimum 25 votes, hence the shameless begging in the 2007 Support Thread. A high rating with few votes could still win the Last Place (tm) Contest, but most contest entries now get far more than 25 votes in a very short time.

Earth Day has always been the least popular theme among authors and readers, so it might be appropriate to revive the Last Place (tm) Contest for it.

The essential idea of the the Last Place (tm) Contest was that authors had to claim it IF THEY WANTED TO by posting their rating and votes at the time the main contest winners were announced. A story could do very badly but the author didn't have to expose themselves to the fame of Last Place if they wanted to crawl into a corner and sob quietly.

But in recent years the statistics of all entries have been posted in the Support Threads. That makes the position of every story very clear, and it is obvious which one was rated lowest. I thought it could be cruel to announce the winner of the Last Place (tm) Contest when the author was already feeling hurt.

The Last Place (tm) Contest was an attempt to highlight stories that could be well-written, competent, but unpopular.

Popularity is probably the only criterion that decides the Literotica themed contests. But is it the popularity of the story, or the author? The popularity of the category? The number of trolls for that category?

The previous winners of Last Place (tm) Contests, the stories and the authors, are not examples of bad or incompetent writing but of unpopularity. The authors have gone on to write more stories that could have been much better received.

All the Last Place (tm) Contests were designed to achieve was some light-hearted banter and to get the stories that were less well received at the time some more exposure - but only if the author wanted that. The statistics, although very informative, made entering the Last Place (tm) Contest no longer optional. That turned it from humour to cruelty.

 

[xelliebabex]

If there is a demand, I could run the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Contest again, but it ceased because of lack of interest.

When it was running, many stories struggled to get the minimum 25 votes, hence the shameless begging in the 2007 Support Thread. A high rating with few votes could still win the Last Place (tm) Contest, but most contest entries now get far more than 25 votes in a very short time.

Earth Day has always been the least popular theme among authors and readers, so it might be appropriate to revive the Last Place (tm) Contest for it.

The essential idea of the the Last Place (tm) Contest was that authors had to claim it IF THEY WANTED TO by posting their rating and votes at the time the main contest winners were announced. A story could do very badly but the author didn't have to expose themselves to the fame of Last Place if they wanted to crawl into a corner and sob quietly.

But in recent years the statistics of all entries have been posted in the Support Threads. That makes the position of every story very clear, and it is obvious which one was rated lowest. I thought it could be cruel to announce the winner of the Last Place (tm) Contest when the author was already feeling hurt.

The Last Place (tm) Contest was an attempt to highlight stories that could be well-written, competent, but unpopular.

Popularity is probably the only criterion that decides the Literotica themed contests. But is it the popularity of the story, or the author? The popularity of the category? The number of trolls for that category?

The previous winners of Last Place (tm) Contests, the stories and the authors, are not examples of bad or incompetent writing but of unpopularity. The authors have gone on to write more stories that could have been much better received.

All the Last Place (tm) Contests were designed to achieve was some light-hearted banter and to get the stories that were less well received at the time some more exposure - but only if the author wanted that. The statistics, although very informative, made entering the Last Place (tm) Contest no longer optional. That turned it from humour to cruelty.

I have always looked at it with light heartedness, Ogg, I would not intentionally want to be cruel to anyone... my only mention of my being in the running was that i was struggling for the 25 votes required, lol, but since my last post some lovely reader gave me the extra one voted needed to make me 25 should a sweep happen though I could find myself as one of those in the unfortunate event of 2007

 

[RejectReality]

What this boils down to is that LC now considers himself the arbitrator of the contests.

Post your story too late in the submission period? You're going to be attacked.

Post a story with a title he considers "nothing more than keywords"? You're going to be attacked.

Post a story in a low vote category? You're going to be attacked.

Fail to insult Laurel and the site? You're a "suck-up" and you're going to be attacked.

Unless, of course, you join him in his hate campaign. That should get you a free pass. So I'd advise everyone to send him a PM saying that the contests are fixed, so you can stay in his good graces.

You can't depend on what he's ranted about in the past to keep you safe, because he adds a new one every few months. Take "nothing more than keywords", for example. That one's brand spanking new!

The only sure way is to jump on the bandwagon.

I'm sure a few have already figured that out and taken steps.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

So, which is it? Are you informing the newbies that the scores seen during the contest don't matter, or are you questioning them?

If you're informing, then why do you feel the need to scream it in bold letters?

Lovely bit of spin RR/Dark. I haven't questioned the scores, only provided caution in a single, easy to read format and in bold letters because it's sort of fun watching what happens.

How about this, I'll drop the bold and qualify my statement:

Caution: Unofficial contest scores prior to final sweeps have been shown by RR/Dark to be accurate within 39%, 12-15%, or a couple percentage points of final scores.

Is that better? (Maybe the red is too much?)

You know, I had spent nearly two years posting stories, participating in contests and following along in support threads before taking a stab at wrapping my head around the point system. I struggled wrapping my head around things. I didn't understand the fake contest thread. (Don't know that I still do, except as a parody and in that light, it's absolutely brilliant fun!) What's funny is how it took getting beat up by yourself and others that eventually brought me to my conclusion. Ironically, you seem to agree with my conclusion and still want to spin things. I don't get that.

 

[JagFarlane]

I have always looked at it with light heartedness, Ogg, I would not intentionally want to be cruel to anyone... my only mention of my being in the running was that i was struggling for the 25 votes required, lol, but since my last post some lovely reader gave me the extra one voted needed to make me 25 should a sweep happen though I could find myself as one of those in the unfortunate event of 2007

I dunno Ellie, my essay might give yours a run for it's money in the Last Place contest

 

[RejectReality]

I read that last post wrong. My brain skimmed right over "seeing the scores". Chalk it up to after midnight. My reply was in response to that out-of-context reading, and thus in left field.

Wouldn't matter to me if the scores were invisible.

From a contestant standpoint, I think it's exchanging anxiety over watching your score bob up and down for anxiety over having no clue how your story is doing, though. ( If such anxiety exists in the person at all )

It would make things more difficult for those trying to manipulate the contests, since they wouldn't know how well they were doing in their mission. That could cause them to err on the side of caution and drop an extra bomb or three. That in turn could possibly make them more obvious, and thus easier to eliminate.

So from the standpoint of mitigating strategic voting, the possible positives tip the scale.

From the standpoint of someone who wants to believe the contests are fixed, it wouldn't accomplish jack.

I can see it being a nightmare to accomplish, because there are so many pages on the site that display score. Every single one of them would have to have a trap to stop the score from displaying. Toplists ( at least those that function properly ), author page, new story list, half a dozen individual sections of the category hubs, etc.

Without knowing how contest stories are identified within the database, there's no way of knowing how difficult that would be. But it's not going to be a quick and easy change simply because of the volume of pages to be edited.

One site where I post hides the score, vote totals, and views on contest stories from everyone -- including the author -- and the stats are only used to establish a minimum vote total to qualify. The rest of the hidden stats are irrelevant. The outcome of the contest is decided by a panel of judges.

Another site hides the author, all stats, and disqualifies anyone who can be proved to have identified their story to anyone. Only registered members are allowed to vote.

In both places, theme is enforced a lot more strongly than here. Often, there are word count restrictions, category restrictions, restrictions against the story being posted anywhere else, etc.

People still say the contests are fixed at both places.

Lovely bit of spin RR/Dark. I haven't questioned the scores, only provided caution in a single, easy to read format and in bold letters because it's sort of fun watching what happens.

 

[sr71plt]

most contest entries now get far more than 25 votes in a very short time.

That's been my observation too. Anyone having trouble reaching 25 votes in this contest thus far?

 

[TimothyM]

That's been my observation too. Anyone having trouble reaching 25 votes in this contest thus far?

Nope - for me that already happened the day after stories posted. (went to bed on the 29th with 15 votes and woke up on the 30th with 32 votes - and remember I'm about 6 hours ahead of US East Coast time).

 

[xelliebabex]

That's been my observation too. Anyone having trouble reaching 25 votes in this contest thus far?

I think just JagFarlane and I with our essays. Though I am sitting on 25 votes as of last night

Good Luck Jag race you for Ogg's trophy

Should the sweeps touch me, then I will have issues

 

[lovecraft68]

I guess Laurel held the stories over the weekend(think she did it in V-day as well)

Saw 4 new ones up today.

 

[sr71plt]

I think just JagFarlane and I with our essays. Though I am sitting on 25 votes as of last night

Good Luck Jag race you for Ogg's trophy

Should the sweeps touch me, then I will have issues

I can see essays having a problem with votes. And some inevitably will be erased in the sweeps. But it's early yet. You may make the cut. If not, you'll get all of the heightened attention from a contest anyway.

 

[TimothyM]

I can see essays having a problem with votes. And some inevitably will be erased in the sweeps. But it's early yet. You may make the cut. If not, you'll get all of the heightened attention from a contest anyway.

I promise I'll read them and vote before the end of the contest. Haven't had time yet.

 

[oggbashan]

I can see essays having a problem with votes. And some inevitably will be erased in the sweeps. But it's early yet. You may make the cut. If not, you'll get all of the heightened attention from a contest anyway.

Two of my Ws are for Essays, and a third for a How-To.

 

[sr71plt]

Two of my Ws are for Essays, and a third for a How-To.

Which doesn't mean they didn't cut close to the minimum votes required. (In fact, having a low number of votes can help in the ratings.)

 

[patientlee]

Here we go again.

 

[jonthechaosman]

From a contestant standpoint, I think it's exchanging anxiety over watching your score bob up and down for anxiety over having no clue how your story is doing, though. ( If such anxiety exists in the person at all )

Or you could be me and log on every day to see your score drop. lol

I think I would be ok with invisible scores, less stress for me, but really...who cares. I cannot fathom why people are arguing and getting worked up over this. If you want to dictate how a contest will be run...start your own website and have whatever kind of contests you want. If you don't want to feel that you will be unfairly treated in a contest, don't enter.

I entered with the vague hope that maybe someday a W would be next to one of my stories. Looks extremely unlikely at this point, my own wife didn't like my story and thank God she didn't vote on it, the last thing I need is another 1 vote.

But seriously, who cares how the contests are run. The site owner could just pick the one she personally liked best for all I care.