Harem Stories

[HordHolm]

I never told anyone what authors "should" do.

And yet...

However, since Literotica does not, then authors should

And...

I am asking for structure which is not there but should be there. If Literotica is not going to do it, then the authors themselves should agree to a level of structure.

Am I misunderstanding what you have previously posted?

I'd also like to add that maybe you might want to think about this a little more deeply...

Because I stand where I think is right/correct on all issues, even if people are screaming that I am wrong. To quote, Alfred Korzybski, "There are two ways to slide easily through life; to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways save us from thinking."

Where 'think' and 'believe' are, of course, synonymous.

 

[allenknott3]

Am I misunderstanding what you have previously posted?

I'd also like to add that maybe you might want to think about this a little more deeply...

Where 'think' and 'believe' are, of course, synonymous.

Yeah, let me try to clarify. You said, "You tell us what authors 'should' do" meaning me telling them directly, like an order. No, what I am saying, is if Literotica does not define the tags, then the authors should get together and common together define the tags together. One is an order and the other is trying to rally people together. You can use should differently. A quick Google search for the definition of should come up with multiple definitions.

Now, I have a grammar-learning disability and probably should have used a different word, and for that, I apologize.

As for the quote, thinking is the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about something. Believe: having a particular opinion, belief, or idea about someone or something. So while "think" and "believe" are synonymous, "thinking" and "believe" are not. because adding the -ing to a word changes it. Also in the context of the quote, they are not. So maybe YOU should think about this a little bit more deeply. Unless you are smarter than the guy who gave the quote? Or maybe you saying I misunderstood the quote?

To explain the quote more: he is saying you can believe everything you are told or doubt everything you are told, both saving you from actually thinking or considering what you are told.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, let me try to clarify. You said, "You tell us what authors 'should' do" meaning me telling them directly, like an order. No, what I am saying, is if Literotica does not define the tags, then the authors should get together and common together define the tags together. One is an order and the other is trying to rally people together.

Which is precisely what has happened in the Category tag pages. Tens of thousands of authors, over twenty or so years, have said, these are the tags we use most. The notion of then expanding that out into definitions is absurd. Use a dictionary.

I'm not sure how that is so hard to understand, yet you still want something else - so how would you do it?

 

[intim8]

I think a key element of the harem story is the power dynamic and the harem's single-minded devotion to the central character. While this would not allow for any members of the harem to freelance, it could allow for some of the members of the harem to be offered to others as some kind of reward, trade, or enticement. It can also allow for the members of the harem to engage with other members, with or without the central character present.

That said, like others above, I'm not all that hung up on whether the story fits the definition or not. If it's not quite strictly a harem, so long as the story stays consistent to whatever dynamic is established, it's fine with me.

 

[allenknott3]

That said, like others above, I'm not all that hung up on whether the story fits the definition or not. If it's not quite strictly a harem, so long as the story stays consistent to whatever dynamic is established, it's fine with me.

Then what is the point of having the tag? What is the point of any of the tags?

 

[intim8]

Then what is the point of having the tag? What is the point of any of the tags?

It may be harem-ish, may appeal to people who like harem stories.

I skipped most of the debate on tags above, mostly because I don't really care. For me, they rarely provide much information about whether or not I will like the story. There's categories I never read, but tags, I don't know. If there's a tag for something I do like in a category I don't, I still won't read it. If there's a tag for something I don't like in a category I do, it may not be a deal-breaker for me.

I tag my submissions based on the elements of the story on the assumption that some people search for those. I'd also tag for warnings, except I almost never write anything that anybody would likely need to be warned against.

if what you're getting at is that tags are like a contract that has to be honored by the story, I think you're fighting the wrong battle.

 

[allenknott3]

It may be harem-ish, may appeal to people who like harem stories.

I skipped most of the debate on tags above, mostly because I don't really care. For me, they rarely provide much information about whether or not I will like the story. There's categories I never read, but tags, I don't know. If there's a tag for something I do like in a category I don't, I still won't read it. If there's a tag for something I don't like in a category I do, it may not be a deal-breaker for me.

I tag my submissions based on the elements of the story on the assumption that some people search for those. I'd also tag for warnings, except I almost never write anything that anybody would likely need to be warned against.

if what you're getting at is that tags are like a contract that has to be honored by the story, I think you're fighting the wrong battle.

I like harem stories, that why I posted my OP. I am saying that tags should be like contracts. But they should have definitions that everyone uses/agrees upon. For me, I do not want to read a story where the main guy is sharing his women with other men (which IMO is not a harem) because it is not my personal tastes or one that has gay sex or pegging, etc. That is the point of the tags to help determine of those things are part of the stories before reading it.

 

[intim8]

because it is not my personal tastes

It turns out that on Literotica, if you want a story that precisely fits your very specific tastes, you have to write it yourself. If you want a site that lets you precisely match stories to the exact specifics of your tastes, you'll have to learn to code.

 

[allenknott3]

It turns out that on Literotica, if you want a story that precisely fits your very specific tastes, you have to write it yourself. If you want a site that lets you precisely match stories to the exact specifics of your tastes, you'll have to learn to code.

I had tried writing them myself. But that also gets boring after a while. Plus, it is a struggle for me.

 

[RejectReality]

Personally I think there should be a set of curated tags that are more prominently featured in the places where stories are selected, but I also wouldn't take away the ability of authors to tag their stories as they see fit. Most would eventually gravitate toward those curated tags, because they would inevitably result in higher returns from search, but I don't think authors should be locked into them. No matter how carefully considered they are, the curated tags will be insufficient for some stories.

I seriously doubt a curated harem tag would exclude the types of stories the OP believes shouldn't carry it either. That's a very narrow definition, and when your tastes are that specific, it's up to you to filter to your own tastes. That level of granularity does not lend itself to a functional tag system.

 

[allenknott3]

Personally I think there should be a set of curated tags that are more prominently featured in the places where stories are selected, but I also wouldn't take away the ability of authors to tag their stories as they see fit. Most would eventually gravitate toward those curated tags, because they would inevitably result in higher returns from search, but I don't think authors should be locked into them. No matter how carefully considered they are, the curated tags will be insufficient for some stories.

I seriously doubt a curated harem tag would exclude the types of stories the OP believes shouldn't carry it either. That's a very narrow definition, and when your tastes are that specific, it's up to you to filter to your own tastes. That level of granularity does not lend itself to a functional tag system.

First, what do you mean by curated tags? Curated is the word that is screwing me up.

Second, my definition is not very narrow. It is the actual definition if you look at other things, like Hentia, Manga, etc.

Third, I would be find to filter my own tastes, but the filter system is not that accurate. So any story tagged with harem comes up, and then I have to look through the story tags. To the best of my knowledge, there is no tag for single-male/sole-male story

 

[RejectReality]

First, what do you mean by curated tags? Curated is the word that is screwing me up.

Second, my definition is not very narrow. It is the actual definition if you look at other things, like Hentia, Manga, etc.

Third, I would be find to filter my own tastes, but the filter system is not that accurate. So any story tagged with harem comes up, and then I have to look through the story tags. To the best of my knowledge, there is no tag for single-male/sole-male story

By "Curated" I mean a set of site generated tags that have defined definitions, and are available as selection options while filling out the tags.

Just because something is the dictionary definition doesn't mean that's how the average person views it. For the most part, the word "taboo" means incest to the average person. That's one thing that could be taboo, but it's come to dominate the word's meaning in common parlance, and on erotica sites.

A harem is one person with a group of other people who are subservient to the master. The sex of any of them doesn't matter. Whether the master chooses to share or even loan out his harem doesn't matter. It's still a harem. While in the wider world, the terms harem and reverse harem have a narrower meaning closer to the original one, in a setting such as an erotica site, that goes out the window. I could see a three part level of granularity perhaps. Harem, Reverse Harem, Harem(NT) -meaning non-traditional.

Most people are going to interpret that NT as meaning bisexual or homosexual rather than any other level of granularity, though. Someone who's writing a male with a female harem is still going to tag it harem even if they're sharing with others. You're not going to herd those cats, and dividing it up any more than that is going way too far out into the weeds for a functional tagging system.

 

[allenknott3]

By "Curated" I mean a set of site generated tags that have defined definitions, and are available as selection options while filling out the tags.

Just because something is the dictionary definition doesn't mean that's how the average person views it. For the most part, the word "taboo" means incest to the average person. That's one thing that could be taboo, but it's come to dominate the word's meaning in common parlance, and on erotica sites.

A harem is one person with a group of other people who are subservient to the master. The sex of any of them doesn't matter. Whether the master chooses to share or even loan out his harem doesn't matter. It's still a harem. While in the wider world, the terms harem and reverse harem have a narrower meaning closer to the original one, in a setting such as an erotica site, that goes out the window. I could see a three part level of granularity perhaps. Harem, Reverse Harem, Harem(NT) -meaning non-traditional.

Most people are going to interpret that NT as meaning bisexual or homosexual rather than any other level of granularity, though. Someone who's writing a male with a female harem is still going to tag it harem even if they're sharing with others. You're not going to herd those cats, and dividing it up any more than that is going way too far out into the weeds for a functional tagging system.

Interesting on the "curated" idea.



"Just because something is the dictionary definition doesn't mean that's how the average person views it." that is exactly the problem. We have lost the ability to correctly define terms. Because everyone wants to use their own definition.



However, you are wrong on some parts. Taboo is a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing. So, it is not just incest. I do not know where you are getting taboo equal incest. At one time gay sex was taboo.



Harem the genre is one male, not a person. Yeah, the sex/gender of the person matters. Because sex and gender matter. Harem originally referred to a Muslim household, hint the subservient to the master who was male, hint sex and gender matters, who by the way did not share the women of the harem. He has other women for that, known as several terms.

The genre of harem comes from anime/manga and is one male and several women. Not being shared with other males, keeping with the original concept. A female harem is also known as a reverse harem. As I originally posted, you can have a gay harem, a lesbian harem, etc. As for the wider world, most do not even know what the term harem is, and those who do are overwhemly going to say it one male many females.


Basically, according to you and several others, the tags do not matter. Then what is even the point of the tags? Everyone can define the tags, however, they want they are meaningless.

 

[RejectReality]

Interesting on the "curated" idea.



"Just because something is the dictionary definition doesn't mean that's how the average person views it." that is exactly the problem. We have lost the ability to correctly define terms. Because everyone wants to use their own definition.



However, you are wrong on some parts. Taboo is a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing. So, it is not just incest. I do not know where you are getting taboo equal incest. At one time gay sex was taboo.



Harem the genre is one male, not a person. Yeah, the sex/gender of the person matters. Because sex and gender matter. Harem originally referred to a Muslim household, hint the subservient to the master who was male, hint sex and gender matters, who by the way did not share the women of the harem. He has other women for that, known as several terms.

The genre of harem comes from anime/manga and is one male and several women. Not being shared with other males, keeping with the original concept. A female harem is also known as a reverse harem. As I originally posted, you can have a gay harem, a lesbian harem, etc. As for the wider world, most do not even know what the term harem is, and those who do are overwhemly going to say it one male many females.


Basically, according to you and several others, the tags do not matter. Then what is even the point of the tags? Everyone can define the tags, however, they want they are meaningless.

Do a search for taboo porn. Look at what comes up. It's incest/pseudo incest. Written, video, audio, cartoon... it's all the same. People equate the two. If anything, taboo = pseudo incest ( step, in-law ) and incest is blood relative.

You can argue all you want for your specific, narrow definition. Authors are not going to follow it, and I don't see the site enforcing it. Go ahead and report all the stories with "fake" harems that use the tag. That mechanism is already available, and I'm sure that if Laurel sees a blatantly incorrect tag, she'll be happy to remove or alter it.

Dime to a donut not a single one that has a harem where sharing or loaning out the harem happens will see that tag removed. Your definition is unnecessarily restrictive, and Laurel is not going to remove a tag that will help the majority of readers locate a story they like.

 

[allenknott3]

Do a search for taboo porn. Look at what comes up. It's incest/pseudo incest. Written, video, audio, cartoon... it's all the same. People equate the two. If anything, taboo = pseudo incest ( step, in-law ) and incest is blood relative.

You can argue all you want for your specific, narrow definition. Authors are not going to follow it, and I don't see the site enforcing it. Go ahead and report all the stories with "fake" harems that use the tag. That mechanism is already available, and I'm sure that if Laurel sees a blatantly incorrect tag, she'll be happy to remove or alter it.

Dime to a donut not a single one that has a harem where sharing or loaning out the harem happens will see that tag removed. Your definition is unnecessarily restrictive, and Laurel is not going to remove a tag that will help the majority of readers locate a story they like.

Now, you are changing your argument. Previously you said, "While in the wider world, the terms..." So are we using the porn definition of not?

Also, yeah, overwhelming taboo in porn means incest because they could not use the term incest, but not all taboo porn. However, if you look at porn, overwhelming harem porn is a single male with many females. Just Google harem, most of the images, are single males with many women.

It is not a narrow definition. It's just a definition you dislike. There is no mechanism for tags, Literortica lets authors tag anything how they want with no definition of the tags, unlike some other sites.

Who the hell is Lauren?

I am not arguing for a "narrow" definition. I am arguing for the correct definition and for tags to be used correctly. As someone else points how, the definition of incest differs depending on where you are. So, I am not even arguing for a wider internet. Just for Literotica to define the terms.

Honest, however, I do not really care what you have to say. I am over this topic and comments from people like you.

 

[allenknott3]

Also, using your own logic, I would point out that overwhelmingly interracial porn is White/Black either WM or WF with a BF or BM. However, that is not how Liteortica used that term. This is my entire point, of Literotica needing to define its tags.

 

[RejectReality]

I have never once seen this complaint other than from you. If there's even the slightest sentiment in the direction of something, there will always be at least a vocal minority beating that drum in the comment section, and it ain't there.

With zero support, you have zero chance of affecting change. Hell, there's overwhelming support for things like a Bisexual category, and that still isn't happening.

I think the site needs defined tags, but they also need to be reasonable tags. IMO, your demands are unreasonable and burdensome on multiple fronts.

 

[HordHolm]

Honest, however, I do not really care what you have to say. I am over this topic and comments from people like you.

Someone who is 'over' this topic would simply let the thread die, but you keep coming back to it. My advice? The status quo will remain and there's nothing you can say to change it without overwhelming support of the sort that would mean readers deserting the site in droves. That is the only thing that will force change, but it isn't happening. So, simply, let it go. Don't respond to this and the thread will disappear in a day or two. All gone.

 

[allenknott3]

I have never once seen this complaint other than from you. If there's even the slightest sentiment in the direction of something, there will always be at least a vocal minority beating that drum in the comment section, and it ain't there.

With zero support, you have zero chance of affecting change. Hell, there's overwhelming support for things like a Bisexual category, and that still isn't happening.

I think the site needs defined tags, but they also need to be reasonable tags. IMO, your demands are unreasonable and burdensome on multiple fronts.

First, only a small number of readers are on the forum. Second, unless you have read all of the comments section for each and every topic, story, etc. you cannot say that. Third, if you review the discussion, you will see that there are people who agree with me.

Not demanding anything. it is not an unreasonable request. Burdensome, because it would take time for authors to adjust or because you said so?

I am just giving my opinion, and I standby my opinion. That is why I hit ignore on your response, because I do not care about anything you had to say.

 

[allenknott3]

Someone who is 'over' this topic would simply let the thread die, but you keep coming back to it. My advice? The status quo will remain and there's nothing you can say to change it without overwhelming support of the sort that would mean readers deserting the site in droves. That is the only thing that will force change, but it isn't happening. So, simply, let it go. Don't respond to this and the thread will disappear in a day or two. All gone.

When I said "over" it, I meant I was looking for a way to close the thread. But my personality I am not going to let SOME comments go. I do not mind the debate, but it is not a discussion or even a debate. Some individuals scream at me, always like, that I am wrong because they said I am wrong.

But I agree with you otherwise and thank you for your advice.

However, if you noticed the last series of comments was from Feb 4, and then nothing until yesterday, Feb 11 which is an entire week.

 

[M_K_Babalon]