Harem Stories

[allenknott3]

I understand your point but I agree with @Bamagan. The site's control of tagging is lax, and that's the way it should be. It's up to you as a reader to scan the title, description, and tag information to satisfy yourself that the story will be your cup of tea. I admit I have NEVER had the problem of being completely surprised by a story. In 95% of cases it's clear to me where the story is going after about 7 paragraphs. So I've always had very little sympathy for those who complain that they were "surprised" by the story's content. I also think surprise is part of what's fun about reading.

Here is where I disagree with you, besides how lax Literotica is. That author might not tagged things on purpose (and I have seen that before) or that the tags are misleading.

I tried very hard to scan titles, descriptions, and tags before ever starting any stories. There are stories where I skip over chapters because the individual chapters have tags I do not like.

But there have been stories that include things that are not tags, for example, a gangbang.

So, the alternative is not reading stories. You may want to be surprised but that is you, not all people read to be surprised.

 

[allenknott3]

There are thousands of authors on lit, and maybe a couple dozen who show up in the forum. Even if everyone here said, that's great, we will use only this definition of harem going forward, that would be less than 1% of lit authors.

That is why Literotica should be more strict on tags, they already do not allow some tags, unlike underage for example.

 

[AchtungNight]

I am completely and totally okay with everything you posted. You are entitled to your stories and enjoy your tastes. Good for you.

It is not a harem, and that is fine. Not every story needs to be a harem story. I am just saying for me is that they are not to my personal liking or taste. So, I have never been into swinging and I am assuming your orgies including multiple males.

If you read any of the stories, they are all single-male stories with a single main character who is shared by several women.

Well, the same male main character over and over does get boring for me. No reason not to let other guys get lucky on occasion, too.

 

[allenknott3]

Well, the same male main character over and over does get boring for me. No reason not to let other guys get lucky on occasion, too.

And for me several male characters get boring and I lose interest. It is just different in taste. Other guys, IMO, can get lucky off-screen.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Why do members of a harem need to be exclusive lovers? It's hardly fair.

There might be an element of ownership going on, in a harem.

 

[AlinaX]

Well, yes, but there's also compersion.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have two "harem" story projects in the early stages, and I think they both meet the OP's definition. One is about an ordinary suburban dad who, at his wife's encouragement, acquires a harem of sorts of women in the neighborhood who are dissatisfied with their husbands.

#57

The other is about a woman who is "enslaved" by the sultan of an island country to be part of his harem, and her adventures that follow.

#58

Gonna need a bigger spreadsheet .

 

[allenknott3]

There might be an element of ownership going on, in a harem.

I would not use that term, ownership but I think your general idea is correct. I would also argue that BDSM, cuckold, etc. are themselves just if not more problematic but it is fictional, and that is fine.

 

[AG31]

So how come I didn't get alerted to this thread? I WATCH AH. I've got alerts from yesterday showing on the first page. Has this happened to other people?

 

[allenknott3]

So how come I didn't get alerted to this thread? I WATCH AH. I've got alerts from yesterday showing on the first page. Has this happened to other people?

It was not originally posted in AH but was moved because I posted it in the wrong forum.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Tags could be used better by writers, I think that's an established and agreed-upon conclusion. And as this site is run by just two very overworked owners, I'm just thrilled with the functionality that we do have.
I wish you luck in getting folks to do things your way.

 

[allenknott3]

Tags could be used better by writers, I think that's an established and agreed-upon conclusion. And as this site is run by just two very overworked owners, I'm just thrilled with the functionality that we do have.
I wish you luck in getting folks to do things your way.

View attachment 2313016

Two? Just two overworked owners are all that handle Literotica? Seriously? I did not know that.

I love the image, those!

 

[ElectricBlue]

Here is where I disagree with you, besides how lax Literotica is. That author might not tagged things on purpose (and I have seen that before) or that the tags are misleading.

I tried very hard to scan titles, descriptions, and tags before ever starting any stories. There are stories where I skip over chapters because the individual chapters have tags I do not like.

But there have been stories that include things that are not tags, for example, a gangbang.

So, the alternative is not reading stories. You may want to be surprised but that is you, not all people read to be surprised.

I can't work out whether this thread opened with a genuine query about the meaning of an erotica trope, harems; or whether its another case where someone wants us writers to mind-read every squick a reader might have, and to use tags, not to promote our stories, but to serve as warnings.

I think it's the latter, and all I have to say to that is: if you need your mother to hold your hand when reading erotica, you might not be old enough to be on an adult erotica site. It's not my responsibility as a writer to "warn" you what's in my story. It's your's, as a reader, to back click as soon as you see content you don't like.

This notion that writers "trick" people into reading stories they might not like, by using tags the way we do, is rubbish. We only have ten tags, and we use them to sell our story, not to warn you.

If the discussion is about an erotica trope and what goes on within it, that's fine, but I'm inclined to think it's more an, "I don't like that" post.

As a writer I cater to readers who like my content, and I assume readers are adult enough to cope with things they don't like, by themselves. It's not my job to provide warnings.

 

[allenknott3]

I can't work out whether this thread opened with a genuine query about the meaning of an erotica trope, harems; or whether its another case where someone wants us writers to mind-read every squick a reader might have, and to use tags, not to promote our stories, but to serve as warnings.

I think it's the latter, and all I have to say to that is: if you need your mother to hold your hand when reading erotica, you might not be old enough to be on an adult erotica site. It's not my responsibility as a writer to "warn" you what's in my story. It's your's, as a reader, to back click as soon as you see content you don't like.

This notion that writers "trick" people into reading stories they might not like, by using tags the way we do, is rubbish. We only have ten tags, and we use them to sell our story, not to warn you.

If the discussion is about an erotica trope and what goes on within it, that's fine, but I'm inclined to think it's more an, "I don't like that" post.

As a writer I cater to readers who like my content, and I assume readers are adult enough to cope with things they don't like, by themselves. It's not my job to provide warnings.

First, it is a genuine query about the meaning of an erotica trope: i.e. harmes.

Second, I never said "trick." I simply said writers do not use tags for various reasons.

Third, alright it is not your responsibility to "warn" readers, even those I would not call it a warner, per se. Then writers should get mad when they get negative reviews and remove their negative reviews.

Fourth, as a writer, it is rubbish that you cater to your readers, but let's say for the sake of argument that is true then you are a terrible writer. Because what readers are you talking about? If you start catering to your readers then you never stop.

Fifth, as for my mother, she abandoned me when I was born. My stepmother abandoned me when I was still little around four years old. So, no one has ever held my hands.

Sixth, where I disable, it is about respect, then I post a story, and someone does not like that it is a harem story where one man is being shared by many women and are submission to him, I respect that. All I am asking for is the same respect back.

Ten tags, and most stories I see do not have ten tags, they have between 4 and 7.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I have to say, for all that it's pointless trying to enforce definitions on the Lit or even AH communities, I kind of agree with the OP.

To my mind, a harem story would be one where a man 'collects' multiple women. He's not just sleeping around, there's a strong element of ownership - either the ladies are just so into him that they don't mind sharing (in which case they're not thinking of other men) or else their autonomy is removed and they have to stay in the harem (maybe call this a 'cruel harem' story). The fantasy surely is that whenever the man is feeling horny, not only does he have ready access to sex, but he has a wide range of choices about who.

Generally, I'd say that precludes the women from sleeping with other men. The only exception is if the sultan has guests and he offers the women's services to them. For some this would ruin the fantasy of complete exclusivity. For others it would demonstrate that the MC has so much sexual 'resource' that he can be generous with it. In any case the sultan retains full control.

Yes it's a sexist fantasy, but fantasies don't need to be politically correct.

I'd call stories where the MC is a player and has ready access to mutliple women based on his general attractiveness and sexual prowess but there's no hint of exclusivity something else - 'Black book fantasies' maybe.

 

[ElectricBlue]

First, it is a genuine query about the meaning of an erotica trope: i.e. harmes.

Okay, good.

Second, I never said "trick." I simply said writers do not use tags for various reasons.

You did say this:

Here is where I disagree with you, besides how lax Literotica is. That author might not tagged things on purpose (and I have seen that before) or that the tags are misleading

which is tantamount to the same thing - "tricked" is a word many others have used.

Third, alright it is not your responsibility to "warn" readers, even those I would not call it a warner, per se. Then writers should get mad when they get negative reviews and remove their negative reviews.

Fourth, as a writer, it is rubbish that you cater to your readers, but let's say for the sake of argument that is true then you are a terrible writer. Because what readers are you talking about? If you start catering to your readers then you never stop.

By cater, I mean I'm using tags to lure readers to my story, by using tags for the kinks therein, which are my kinks. I don't kowtow to readers, if that's what you mean, nor do I care that some want tags used as warnings - this comes up frequently in the AH

Fifth, as for my mother, she abandoned me when I was born. My stepmother abandoned me when I was still little around four years old. So, no one has ever held my hands.

I apologise for careless hyperbole.

Sixth, where I disable, it is about respect, then I post a story, and someone does not like that it is a harem story where one man is being shared by many women and are submission to him, I respect that. All I am asking for is the same respect back.

You're asking us to cater for your dislikes, that's nothing to do with respect for your feelings. When I publish the story, the last thing on my mind is the unknown feelings of some unknown potential reader.

Ten tags, and most stories I see do not have ten tags, they have between 4 and 7.

So?

 

[AchtungNight]

I'd call stories where the MC is a player and has ready access to mutliple women based on his general attractiveness and sexual prowess but there's no hint of exclusivity something else - 'Black book fantasies' maybe.

“Casanova” fantasies also works, or “Don Juan” or “Playboy”. “Charmer” is the TV trope page describing such fantasies that sounds most respectable to me.

 

[AG31]

It was not originally posted in AH but was moved because I posted it in the wrong forum.

Thank you!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Now, what I mean by self-understood is a term like incest which seems that most everyone accepts the definition of that term. I think you want to argue more than actually reaching a good point.

People don't agree on the definition of "incest". Every so often we get posts from people who've discovered that their preferred "incest" relationship isn't incesty enough for some readers in I/T.

 

[allenknott3]

You did say this: which is tantamount to the same thing - "tricked" is a word many others have used.

That is not a trick. Not tagging could be because of trying to avoid things. For example, I once read a story where the main character ended up in a threesome but threesome was not tagged. Why? Because the author wants the reader to think the main character was going to have to pick one of the other, only for the twist ending to be ending up with both, hint no threesome tagged.

What I mean by misleading, is that some tagged are less popular than others, so authors avoid those because if some readers see them, they skip the stories. Again, I would not call that a trick.

By cater, I mean I'm using tags to lure readers to my story, by using tags for the kinks therein, which are my kinks. I don't kowtow to readers, if that's what you mean, nor do I care that some want tags used as warnings - this comes up frequently in the AH

You're asking us to cater for your dislikes, that's nothing to do with respect for your feelings. When I publish the story, the last thing on my mind is the unknown feelings of some unknown potential reader.

Okay, then I misunderstood your cater comment. I apologized.

Here is where I disagree, if I was asking for all stories with a tag to be banned, that would be catering. I am not. I just asking for clear tagged, so I can avoid reading things that I dislike. In one of my non-literotica stories, I put a rape scene but I tagged rape because I did not want anyone who dislikes reading about rape and there are a lot of people (especially women) who avoid that tag. So, yeah, it is about respect. Nobody should read anything that avoids their personal tastes, likes, dislikes, etc. If those things are clearly tagged beforehand, then it is better for both sides. Trying to avoid traumatized readers. I am going to give you another example, I read the first several chapters of a story once, in one of the chapters the main character's girlfriend was date raped. I stopped reading the story entirely. If that had been the correct tag, I would have skipped over that chapter. It is just like skipping over part of films or series for whatever reason.

Now, let me ask you: is there a middle ground we can reach?

 

[allenknott3]

People don't agree on the definition of "incest". Every so often we get posts from people who've discovered that their preferred "incest" relationship isn't incesty enough for some readers in I/T.

I have never met anyone who disagrees with the definition of incest. Incest is easy: it is sex between family members or close relatives.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have never met anyone who disagrees with the definition of incest. Incest is easy: it is sex between family members or close relatives.

And what precisely counts as a "family member"? Or a "close relative"?

(For that matter, what counts as "sex"?)

 

[allenknott3]

And what precisely counts as a "family member"? Or a "close relative"?

(For that matter, what counts as "sex"?)

Parents, Siblings, and Children are family members. Spouse's siblings, aunt, uncles, nephews, nieces, and cousins are close relatives. Historically speaking the number of distances to be counted as incest vary over time and degrees of consanguinity but they are examples of first and second cousins not being considered incest. Hint cousins are incest, but not first cousins.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Now, let me ask you: is there a middle ground we can reach?

We have ten tags, which is not many. I going to use those to promote the kinks or subjects in my story by saying, these are the ten main things this story contains.

I might also have ten other story elements which are of less importance to me, and they might well be your top ten squicks, but so what? They're not in my top ten. It's not up to me to mind-read what you don't like, and no, I'm not going to list every sexual element in the story.

So in that sense, no, there's no middle ground.

 

[allenknott3]

We have ten tags, which is not many. I going to use those to promote the kinks or subjects in my story by saying, these are the ten main things this story contains.

I might also have ten other story elements which are of less importance to me, and they might well be your top ten squicks, but so what? They're not in my top ten. It's not up to me to mind-read what you don't like, and no, I'm not going to list every sexual element in the story.

So in that sense, no, there's no middle ground.

Thanks for proving my point. If ten tags are not enough, when most stories seem not to use ten tags that is a problem, a you problem. I am not asking for you to be a mind-read, your dismissive attitude toward my POV is problematic at least. So, if there is no middle ground then there is no point in continuing to discuss the topic.

However, lucky for me none of your stories seem interesting or even good to me, like bad B-movies, so you will never have to worry about being a 'mind-reader' and I will never have to waste my time. You enjoy your stories and writing and have a good rest of your day.