Harem Stories

[allenknott3]

You are asking for structure which is not there, nor should it be.

I am asking for structure which is not there but should be there. If Literotica is not going to do it, then the authors themselves should agree to a level of structure.

 

[HordHolm]

the authors themselves should agree to a level of structure.

Have you ever tried herding cats...?

 

[MrPixel]

...the authors themselves should agree...

You've been on LitE for seven years. You should know better. Getting consensus on anything? I suggest not.

 

[allenknott3]

Have you ever tried herding cats...?

No. I am not a cat or pet personal in general. Are you saying the authors would be like trying to herd cats?

 

[HordHolm]

No. I am not a cat or pet personal in general. Are you saying the authors would be like trying to herd cats?

 

[allenknott3]

You've been on LitE for seven years. You should know better. Getting consensus on anything? I suggest not.

I had an account for seven years, but been on Literotica longer, I just did not create an account until 2016. I did not realize getting a consensus would be that difficult. As you have seen I do not post in the forum much.

 

[Bamagan]

I had an account for seven years, but been on Literotica longer, I just did not create an account until 2016. I did not realize getting a consensus would be that difficult. As you have seen I do not post in the forum much.

But you've been on Earth the entire time, right?

 

[AchtungNight]

I know of a story called “The Harem” that features a lot of lesbian couplings. Guess it’s not a harem story by the OP’s definition.

Personally I believe polygamy without polyamory is destined for disaster, but if people want to try and prove me wrong they have the right.

 

[allenknott3]

But you've been on Earth the entire time, right?

Yeah, sadly I have been on Earth for my entire life. But we get consensus all of the time it just depends more on the forum or situation. I figure it would not that hard to agree on definitions for each tag since they are basically should be self-understood. Most tags are seemly used correctly. It should some tags are not for some reason.

 

[allenknott3]

I know of a story called “The Harem” that features a lot of lesbian couplings. Guess it’s not a harem story by the OP’s definition.

Personally I believe polygamy without polyamory is destined for disaster, but if people want to try and prove me wrong they have the right.

That would be a lesbian harem. See how easy that was. Never read that story. But you are right it is not a harem story by the correct definition of the term.

The problem with "polygamy without polyamory is destined for disaster" is that can be argued for any situation and it depends on the individuals involved to make it work and be consensus among everyone. It means wife-swapping and swinging are more of a disaster than polygamy, as shown by numerous studies. You are also confusing the term. Polygamy is multiple spouses. Polyamory is each person having multiple relationships, romantic maybe but not marriage. So for example, a husband and wife, who both have lovers on the side, themselves also having lovers would be a polyamory relationship but not a polygamy relationship.

That leads to the problem of the division of time and love.

 

[Bamagan]

Yeah, sadly I have been on Earth for my entire life. But we get consensus all of the time it just depends more on the forum or situation. I figure it would not that hard to agree on definitions for each tag since they are basically should be self-understood. Most tags are seemly used correctly. It should some tags are not for some reason.

No word is self-understood, since that would mean you could understand it without being aware of where it fits in a linguistic or historical context. For instance, the word you're worrying about, harem, also applied to the part of the house that a Muslim's wives, concubines, and female servants lived in. So it would be perfectly legitimate to write and tag a story about a man building a harem and make it all about his conversations with the architect as they remodel his palace. It still won't be what you're apparently looking for, but words are slippery little buggers.

 

[allenknott3]

No word is self-understood, since that would mean you could understand it without being aware of where it fits in a linguistic or historical context. For instance, the word you're worrying about, harem, also applied to the part of the house that a Muslim's wives, concubines, and female servants lived in. So it would be perfectly legitimate to write and tag a story about a man building a harem and make it all about his conversations with the architect as they remodel his palace. It still won't be what you're apparently looking for, but words are slippery little buggers.

Uh, the conversations with the architect? Seriously? Is that the best argument you have? You are right, about where the term harem comes from, minus you forgot about the eunuchs guards and the pre-pubescent male children. Eunuch guards are males who have been castrated.

Now, what I mean by self-understood is a term like incest which seems that most everyone accepts the definition of that term. I think you want to argue more than actually reaching a good point.

 

[Vitriolhack]

I agree with you on the well-written story. It is just for me, I do not want to read something where they might be something that does not reflect my personal tastes. It is just with Netflix or Amazon, everyone watches what they like or what they think they are going to writing.

All I am asking for is things to be clear from the start. So, if a story includes a tag that the reader does not like they can skip that story.

I agree the tag should reflect the expected story.

Rare are the stories that only comply by one tag though.

 

[Bamagan]

Uh, the conversations with the architect? Seriously? Is that the best argument you have? You are right, about where the term harem comes from, minus you forgot about the eunuchs guards and the pre-pubescent male children. Eunuch guards are males who have been castrated.

Now, what I mean by self-understood is a term like incest which seems that most everyone accepts the definition of that term. I think you want to argue more than actually reaching a good point.

Just pointing out that the same word means different things to different people. And if you don't like my point, that's too bad, but I've run out of time for the automatic gainsaying of what the other person said, and you haven't paid for the full course. Good day.

 

[allenknott3]

I agree the tag should reflect the expected story.

Rare are the stories that only comply by one tag though.

I do not mind if stories have one tag or numerous tags, as long as they reflect the story.

But I feel like some writers intentionally do not tag correctly to get people to read, for example, there was a story once that included water sports but not where was that tagged or mentioned before the scene.

Do not even tag it, just mention it in the open text, of things the stories include.

 

[allenknott3]

Just pointing out that the same word means different things to different people. And if you don't like my point, that's too bad, but I've run out of time for the automatic gainsaying of what the other person said, and you haven't paid for the full course. Good day.

You are right, the same word means different things to different people. Hint the need for definitions of tags. My point is that MOST people seem to understand the meaning of the majority of tags.

As for "automatic gainsaying" huh? What? I have no idea what you mean by that sentence. Paid for the full course? What are you even talking about?

 

[MrPixel]

I have noticed that several 'harem' stories seem to have different definitions of what is a harem story. Most are just a single main character (normally male) having sex with a bunch of other characters (normally female) and while that is part of it, several of the stories include the main character sharing and engaging in sexual behaviors with the other female characters that including for example sharing the women with another man, but then that is no longer a harem story in my opinion.

... I am wrong on this? Do others agree or disagree? Just curious about what everyone thinks.

Disagree, strongly. I have to wonder if you're the anonymous commenter who busted my chops over my use of "harem" in the polyamory context of a benevolent male surrounded by devoted women who are otherwise independent. I called it "a modern harem", and will continue to do so, and will also continue using a "harem" tag.

It is my opinion that your strict definition as dictated by a single culture during a specific era is excruciatingly pedantic. We write about other cultures and other social value systems where the one-to-several relationships fit the general idea of a "harem" and have no other language equivalent. "Polyamory" as a tag is way too sweeping and does not convey the structure. Not at all.

And you are not "just curious about what everyone thinks", you are, as others suggested, just here to argue and shove your POV down our throats.

Good day.

 

[allenknott3]

Disagree, strongly. I have to wonder if you're the anonymous commenter who busted my chops over my use of "harem" in the polyamory context of a benevolent male surrounded by devoted women who are otherwise independent. I called it "a modern harem", and will continue to do so, and will also continue using a "harem" tag.

It is my opinion that your strict definition as dictated by a single culture during a specific era is excruciatingly pedantic. We write about other cultures and other social value systems where the one-to-several relationships fit the general idea of a "harem" and have no other language equivalent. "Polyamory" as a tag is way too sweeping and does not convey the structure. Not at all.

And you are not "just curious about what everyone thinks", you are, as others suggested, just here to argue and shove your POV down our throats.

Good day.

I have never read any of your stories. And I do not post anonymous comments.

I am generally curious about what everyone or most think, does not mean I have to agree. Now, since I never read your story, it sounds like a harem story to me but I cannot be sure without reading it. What is the name of the story?

However, I would point out you are doing the same thing with your view on "polyamory" and maybe should Google where the term harem comes from.

Also, readers are allowed to leave negative reviewers. There is no required for only positive reviews but I know several authors who only want positive reviews and delete anonymous and negative reviews.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I can assure you that there's little agreement on loads of other tags, too!

If you're wanting harem stories restricted to that particular social structure, does that mean you'd happily see women comforting each other, having sex with the eunuchs, being prevented from escape, etc?

Basically the word harem has expanded its meaning on being adopted by English, as well as changing the pronunciation. Words change when ending up in different languages.

 

[allenknott3]

I can assure you that there's little agreement on loads of other tags, too!

If you're wanting harem stories restricted to that particular social structure, does that mean you'd happily see women comforting each other, having sex with the eunuchs, being prevented from escape, etc?

Basically the word harem has expanded its meaning on being adopted by English, as well as changing the pronunciation. Words change when ending up in different languages.

Right, words change over time. The current normally accepted definition of the word harem is a single male with several females. Again, you can have a female harem also known as a reverse harem. A Lesbian harem what a single female character and several other females. You could have a gay harem, a single male, and several male lovers. All of them are fine, just tagged them right. So, just because the meaning has changed, does not mean we do not need a definition of words since that could be for any words.

 

[AchtungNight]

The polyamory I usually enjoy, and which features in my stories, is between characters who are free to play around with any interested party. They may have primary partners who might even be spouses with veto power, but if they can arrange it, they are free to enjoy themselves with orgies, swinging, and booty calls when their primary is indisposed or interested in a group engagement. Just as long as there's open communication and they remain devoted to their primary partner. This doesn't sound like a harem to me. It does sound like friends with benefits and fun, though.

 

[SimonDoom]

I get that but I strongly disagree with that. Just like I disagree with Literotica policies over some things that they prohibit. It also means, for me anyway I have read stories that if correctly tagged, I would not have, which results in me not reading authors' stories because I am always worried I might read something I dislike.

I understand your point but I agree with @Bamagan. The site's control of tagging is lax, and that's the way it should be. It's up to you as a reader to scan the title, description, and tag information to satisfy yourself that the story will be your cup of tea. I admit I have NEVER had the problem of being completely surprised by a story. In 95% of cases it's clear to me where the story is going after about 7 paragraphs. So I've always had very little sympathy for those who complain that they were "surprised" by the story's content. I also think surprise is part of what's fun about reading.

 

[SimonDoom]

Have you ever tried herding cats...?

Not just that . . . wordy, perverted cats.

 

[allenknott3]

The polyamory I usually enjoy, and which features in my stories, is between characters who are free to play around with any interested party. They may have primary partners who might even be spouses with veto power, but if they can arrange it, they are free to enjoy themselves with orgies, swinging, and booty calls when their primary is indisposed or interested in a group engagement. Just as long as there's open communication and they remain devoted to their primary partner. This doesn't sound like a harem to me. It does sound like friends with benefits and fun, though.

I am completely and totally okay with everything you posted. You are entitled to your stories and enjoy your tastes. Good for you.

It is not a harem, and that is fine. Not every story needs to be a harem story. I am just saying for me is that they are not to my personal liking or taste. So, I have never been into swinging and I am assuming your orgies including multiple males.

If you read any of the stories, they are all single-male stories with a single main character who is shared by several women.

 

[djrip]

I had an account for seven years, but been on Literotica longer, I just did not create an account until 2016. I did not realize getting a consensus would be that difficult. As you have seen I do not post in the forum much.

There are thousands of authors on lit, and maybe a couple dozen who show up in the forum. Even if everyone here said, that's great, we will use only this definition of harem going forward, that would be less than 1% of lit authors.