Editors, how often do you use them?

[EmilyMiller]

Reading these comment I'm starting to believe it may have been a small miracle that the first and only volunteer editor I contacted responded and actually helped me

Yup. The exception that proves the rule.

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

That being said, I think that it's easy for people to volunteer to edit for me because the story is pretty clean when I send it to them. Not many people have the stomach to edit something that's full of errors.

This is a very important concept, both for you as an author and for the sake of not driving your editors crazy. Do the best you can with the draft before you send it to an editor. Don't do it sloppy and expect the editor to make it clean. That way the editor can focus on changes that will actually help you improve your craft, instead of doing basic remedial work. A few years ago I edited somebody's story, and I could not believe what horrible shape it was in. It was atrocious. And this was someone who had had some very successful stories. I slogged my way through it. I will never do that again.

 

[djrip]

Put me down on the never had an editor camp, though my most recent story was beta read before publishing. First time for everything!

 

[EmilyMiller]

Put me down on the never had an editor camp, though my most recent story was beta read before publishing. First time for everything!

Oh shit, just realized I had neither commented, nor rated . Sorry.

Em

 

[StillStunned]

As a professional editor (in business writing I generally call myself a copy editor and proofreader, but I gather that in fiction publishing it would be called line editing and copy editing), I should perhaps point out why people might be reluctant to volunteer.

It takes time. And it's mentally exhausting.

I typically have all the freedom I want to completely rewrite my clients' English to make it sound as polished and professional as possible. I work for banks, lawyers, pension funds, investment companies, power companies, government bodies up to the level of the EU, and very rarely for private individuals.

I'm good at my job. I've been doing it long enough that I usually have two or three constructions lined up in my head for every sentence I read.

Even so, my speed averages at 1000 words an hour. I have to take regular breaks. Like I said, it's exhausting work.

So even if your English is excellent, remember that you're asking someone for hours, perhaps days of their time and energy. They still have to pore over your text word for word and pick out mistakes and offer suggestions for improvement.

It's like asking a professional painter whether they'd like to paint your house in their spare time. Of course they have the skills, and they might have the time. But personally I write to get away from my day job.

Some people might once have signed up as volunteer editors and discovered just how hard it is. I don't blame them.

So if someone is willing to help, be grateful and appreciative. If no-one answers your call, you've lost nothing, and hopefully now you'll understand the reason for thr crickets and the tumbleweed.

 

[Duleigh]

The beginning of A Good Girl Gone Bad Ch 2 probably illustrates this.

Em

I like that! But I'm not going to enter my text in that window and use HTML code. I'm to old and lazy. I'll stay with my word processor until they figure out how to catch up with me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

As a professional editor (in business writing I generally call myself a copy editor and proofreader, but I gather that in fiction publishing it would be called line editing and copy editing), I should perhaps point out why people might be reluctant to volunteer.

It takes time. And it's mentally exhausting.

I typically have all the freedom I want to completely rewrite my clients' English to make it sound as polished and professional as possible. I work for banks, lawyers, pension funds, investment companies, power companies, government bodies up to the level of the EU, and very rarely for private individuals.

I'm good at my job. I've been doing it long enough that I usually have two or three constructions lined up in my head for every sentence I read.

Even so, my speed averages at 1000 words an hour. I have to take regular breaks. Like I said, it's exhausting work.

So even if your English is excellent, remember that you're asking someone for hours, perhaps days of their time and energy. They still have to pore over your text word for word and pick out mistakes and offer suggestions for improvement.

It's like asking a professional painter whether they'd like to paint your house in their spare time. Of course they have the skills, and they might have the time. But personally I write to get away from my day job.

Some people might once have signed up as volunteer editors and discovered just how hard it is. I don't blame them.

So if someone is willing to help, be grateful and appreciative. If no-one answers your call, you've lost nothing, and hopefully now you'll understand the reason for thr crickets and the tumbleweed.

Couldn’t agree more. I’m not an editor, professional or amateur. But I’m kinda thorough, and have reviewed multiple people’s work here in a capacity beyond what I would understand as a proofreader or alpha / beta reader. I.e. commenting on concepts, tone, characterization and making suggestions beyond grammar and spelling. It takes hours - it’s slower than writing.

I am so grateful for those who have done the same for me.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I like that! But I'm not going to enter my text in that window and use HTML code. I'm to old and lazy. I'll stay with my word processor until they figure out how to catch up with me.

I write in Word on my iPhone. But I don’t trust the Word to Lit conversion. So I do all my formatting by hand in the Word file, the contents of which I copy / paste to the Lit textbox.

Em

 

[Duleigh]

I should perhaps point out why people might be reluctant to volunteer.

Every. Single. Person. that I contacted was a "Volunteer." Only one bothered to answer my request to say she was too busy, but she did try to make a buck off of me. The rest couldn't be bothered to tell me to fuck off. I can see why someone would be reluctant to volunteer but when you do stand up and say "I VOLUNTEER!" but refuse to answer a request for help I have no sympathy or charity for.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I like that! But I'm not going to enter my text in that window and use HTML code. I'm to old and lazy. I'll stay with my word processor until they figure out how to catch up with me.

So this is from the Word file for the same story (please excuse any weird spacing):

—

<center><em><u><a href="https://www.literotica.com/series/se/a-good-girl-gone-bad">A Good Girl Gone Bad</a></u></em></center>

<center><b>CHAPTER TWO - BOUND</b></center>

I’d not pulled the drapes last night and woke early as the sun brightened my bedroom. Beside me, and still in shadow, I saw her dark tresses spread over the adjoining pillow. An alabaster arm and a sculpted shoulder sticking out from under the covers. David and I had an understanding that he’d give me space when Amy stayed over. He got more than enough of my attention most of the time. And, though the three of us had experimented, this had simply served to confirm Amy in her predominantly lesbian paradigm.



I leaned on my elbow and looked at her. Amy’s face was turned away from me, but her gracefully curved neck was peeping from under her hair. That took me back. Back to gazing at her neck while in class. How many years ago was that now? Three and half maybe. Not long to go now.



It was an unhappy thought. Amy had shared her San Fran plans with me. I’d become disconsolate, irritable. When she challenged me on why, I just got more angry, more closed off. Did I feel she was abandoning me? Probably. Then best friends didn’t always outlast college. She’d asked whether I wanted to come with her. But I’d already been doing graduate work as a senior and an M.S. position was mine for the taking; hopefully leading to a PhD. Why did I need to fit in with her, anyway? We just had different plans.



Part of me knew that there was more to it than I could admit to myself. But a bigger part said ‘fuck that!’ Romantic relationships, or my train wreck attempts at them, had caused me nothing but heartache and psychological damage. Some physical damage too. I had no use for that shit. It was for the weak-willed. Those who were too blind to see that sex was just fun. Free and fun. Relationships were about control and ownership and not for me.



Still. Looking at Amy as the sun slowly moved across my bed and her sleeping form…



Enough! I leaned over and kissed her cheek, being greeted by an annoyed grunt. Amy had never been a morning person.



I was considering the best way to wake her up, maybe crawling under the covers from the foot of the bed, when my phone bleeped. Leaving Amy to slumber, I rolled over and picked it up. The message was tagged ‘Ella.’



<kbd>Hi Em. I unexpectedly have a free weekend. What about you? Are you free? Or Amy? Or both?</kbd>



My mood brightened, confused thoughts about one friend replaced by simpler ones about another. We had been seeing quite a bit of Ella, and it had been a lot of fun. I tapped out a reply.



<kbd>Hi, cutie! Where are you? We don’t have big plans. Could always squeeze you in. Or squeeze into you </kbd>



The reply was almost instantaneous.



<kbd>I’m outside the house. I guess I was a bit impulsive . Is that OK</kbd>



I threw on a robe. Passing David’s door, I knocked and opened it without waiting for a reply. What was I going to see that I hadn’t seen before? He was reading in bed.



“Hi, hun. Thanks for giving me and Ames some space. It’s just… just another friend has arrived. They might be a little perturbed by someone else being here…” I left the sentence hanging.



“So you want me to disappear, right?”



“Uh-huh.”



“No problem, you can make it up to me when they’ve gone. OK?” He smiled warmly at me.



“As always, but yeah, a little space would be cool.”



“OK, Em. You’ve got it”



“And… well, just one other thing. Could we maybe use the garage? I promise I’ll clean up. Not… not like that other time.”



David was already getting dressed. “So does the poor guy know what he is letting himself in for? And Amy as well? Fuck!”



“Um… it’s not a guy. And not exactly a girl either. It’s a… woman.”



“OK… now you are making me want to stay.” My face fell. “No. I’m teasing. I’m going to the pancake place and I might visit a few people. Won’t be back until the evening. OK?”



“OK,” I kissed his lips. “Gotta run, she’s outside. Could you…?”



“Let myself out the side door? Sure. Have fun! The poor woman.”



With that, I left him and half ran to the front door.



<center> </center>

 

[djrip]

Oh shit, just realized I had neither commented, nor rated . Sorry.

Em

Bad Em! Assume the position!

 

[8letters]

But isn't the story already published then? And when you ask for beta readers (16 responses out of 24 requests), where do you do that?

I publish a story, someone PM's me and asks that they be a beta-reader for my next story. When the next story is ready to be beta-read, I send an email to me with the story attached, and blind copy all of my beta-readers including anyone who has asked to beta-read since the last time I sent out a story. If someone doesn't respond two times in a row, I drop them from my beta-reader list.

 

[StillStunned]

Every. Single. Person. that I contacted was a "Volunteer." Only one bothered to answer my request to say she was too busy, but she did try to make a buck off of me. The rest couldn't be bothered to tell me to fuck off. I can see why someone would be reluctant to volunteer but when you do stand up and say "I VOLUNTEER!" but refuse to answer a request for help I have no sympathy or charity for.

I'm not excusing that kind of behaviour, just explaining it. Like I mentioned, perhaps they thought it would be fun, discovered just how much time and energy it costs, and never removed their name from the list.

 

[lovecraft68]

Every. Single. Person. that I contacted was a "Volunteer." Only one bothered to answer my request to say she was too busy, but she did try to make a buck off of me. The rest couldn't be bothered to tell me to fuck off. I can see why someone would be reluctant to volunteer but when you do stand up and say "I VOLUNTEER!" but refuse to answer a request for help I have no sympathy or charity for.

There's also the 'editors' who volunteer just to get a look at the story before anyone else. Then they hand it back with very little work done to it.
A warning sign for them is when they reach out to you...."If you need a proof reader or editor I'll be glad to help!"

 

[EmilyMiller]

Bad Em! Assume the position!

Tree pose?

Em

 

[djrip]

Tree pose?

Em

That's the one.

 

[EmilyMiller]

That's the one.

 

[djrip]

There's also the 'editors' who volunteer just to get a look at the story before anyone else. Then they hand it back with very little work done to it.
A warning sign for them is when they reach out to you...."If you need a proof reader or editor I'll be glad to help!"

I've now beta read a couple. I worry I'm not being thorough enough, but I kind of live blog my reactions and questions and impressions and guesses about where it's going as I read, with little snippets of the text to show what part I'm responding to. So if they fake me out, get me thinking it's going one way before a twist takes it another, they can see their dirty trick worked on me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've now beta read a couple. I worry I'm not being thorough enough, but I kind of live blog my reactions and questions and impressions and guesses about where it's going as I read, with little snippets of the text to show what part I'm responding to. So if they fake me out, get me thinking it's going one way before a twist takes it another, they can see their dirty trick worked on me.

I like that part .

Em

 

[Duleigh]

So this is from the Word file for the same story (please excuse any weird spacing):

I like that, but the HTML for me is too much like work, especially setting up the link. I didn't spend all those years in the computer field just to ignore what some other programmer busted his ass just to make easy for me, and I haven't had an issue submitting my work in .doc and .rtf format. I can get all those effects except for the keyboard font using Word. I don't put a lot of emojis in, just an occasional small dog.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I like that, but the HTML for me is too much like work, especially setting up the link. I didn't spend all those years in the computer field just to ignore what some other programmer busted his ass just to make easy for me, and I haven't had an issue submitting my work in .doc and .rtf format. I can get all those effects except for the keyboard font using Word. I don't put a lot of emojis in, just an occasional small dog.

I like the extra work. Gives my brain something else to think about that is very different to writing. It helps keep me sharp. We are all different.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I like that, but the HTML for me is too much like work, especially setting up the link. I didn't spend all those years in the computer field just to ignore what some other programmer busted his ass just to make easy for me, and I haven't had an issue submitting my work in .doc and .rtf format. I can get all those effects except for the keyboard font using Word. I don't put a lot of emojis in, just an occasional small dog.

I know what it’s like for me.

I have to write reports for work. Lengthy and technical ones. They often have Excel embedded in them. It’s nice to shift my brain into number mode from text mode. Then it’s nice to shift back to text mode.

Same with the odd bit of HTML and then checking that it worked. It’s a mini- break.

Em

 

[8letters]

There's also the 'editors' who volunteer just to get a look at the story before anyone else. Then they hand it back with very little work done to it.
A warning sign for them is when they reach out to you...."If you need a proof reader or editor I'll be glad to help!"

And the harm to that is? They get to read the story early, but then they'll have to read it again to experience the finished product.

I have one beta-reader that most of his feedback is a few very negative sentences. I wonder why he wants to beta-read for me when he keeps being disappointed by my stories. But it's not like having him beta-read for me takes up a lot of my time.

 

[Paul_Chance]

...
Even so, my speed averages at 1000 words an hour. I have to take regular breaks. Like I said, it's exhausting work.

So even if your English is excellent, remember that you're asking someone for hours, perhaps days of their time and energy. They still have to pore over your text word for word and pick out mistakes and offer suggestions for improvement.
...

That is exactly it for me. Having done it professionally for years my rate is about the same. It's methodical, painstaking work.

I've edited on Lit for a couple of friends, but I only do short stories, less than ten thousand words. Since it's all in my free time, I promise a two-week turn around to finished product, which is to long for some people.

I think people on both sides of the equation underestimate how long it takes. Authors expect a quick turn-around and volunteer editors often don't know what they're setting themselves up for.

Ego is also a challenge when you're a volunteer editor. In the professional world the workflow is straight forward. The author writes, the editor edits, the publisher publishes. There is minimal back and forth.

Author: "Here's the draft." Editor: "These are the changes I recommend." Author: "Okay, thanks." Publisher: "Great job." Everyone is motivated by the paycheck.

 

[8letters]

I've now beta read a couple. I worry I'm not being thorough enough, but I kind of live blog my reactions and questions and impressions and guesses about where it's going as I read, with little snippets of the text to show what part I'm responding to. So if they fake me out, get me thinking it's going one way before a twist takes it another, they can see their dirty trick worked on me.

"Noooooooooo! It was going so well!"

"I'm getting real close to the end now. We're running out of space for much more action. This going to be a low-key breast play only orgasm finale? I'll have to see. 2 more pages...."