BTB/LW Nuance Is Real

[madelinemasoch]

Don't take this as a pure defense or attack. Refer to the title upon the aforementioned urge: this post is to point out nuance in BTB stories and the LW category in general.

I found a Gambinluck story which has a lot of comments. It's LW and BTB subgenre, called Cuckolds Anonymous. Some of you won't believe what I found in the comments. It's a non-violent BTB story; the cheating wife doesn't get abused or r*ped or murdered or anything like that, not even a slap in the face. I found this refreshing compared to BTB's reputation on the forums. It has about 87 comments as of this posting. The first thing I'll point out is that certain vocal readers actually liked the fact that it was nonviolent.

nixroxabout 1 year ago
5 stars - HAHAHA - this is a good one.

I am a mechanic and I know how much work would be involved - especially if you did not want anyone to see it being done. PLUS this story had NO VIOLENCE heaped upon anyone - just well executed revenge.

Keep them coming if the rest of your stories are like this one.

What's even more surprising than that is the fact that I actually found comments condemning BTB as a subgenre altogether.

Qwer12about 1 year ago
Your Are A Much Better Writer Then This
I have enjoyed your stories and think you are a great storyteller and your slave series are some of the very BEST on this site. HOWEVER, to write a BTB story to pander to the anti-cuck and anti-free adult choice group is a sad day. I have never given any of your stories less the five stars that run ended today. So disappointing that you felt the need to write a BTB, but your are the writer and control the stories you want to write so get to make those free choices as well. Just think you are better then this. Cheers

iammweaselabout 1 year ago
Started good, but I knew it would go over the top (and it did in a big way and some of it was hard to read and figure out who was saying what and to whom) when she literally had a phone call that laid everything out like a bad Bond Villian always did. June already knew of it, so instead of putting some effort into making it a believable admittance of guilt, we got the "Gee June, you already know all this but let me repeat it to you like your 5".

Didnt make it far down page 2 when it became clear this was just another pat BTB story aimed for the easily impressed.

This proves that for certain members of the LW readership, BTB is getting old. It's considered a lower art form by some: "you're above that" and all that. I know these posts are a year old, but has that much changed in a year? Cuck stories still get posted on LW, there was probably one posted today, for all I know.

It just cannot be that the entire category is infested with vicious BTB trolls. I think more than anything the smartest people who read the category just want to read something new.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Actually a few readers did not like the way my MC discovered his wife's cheating. It was 'too much a trope.' A strange car, coming home late etc are similar tropes. I did not want to waste too much time and distract from the story.
BTB is not 'beating the bastards' it is burn.. Exacting revenge of some sort. At the very least getting rid of the cheater in a a way she does not enjoy. Many readers who love BTB, do not like the violent endings. But they expect consequences.
I hope you read the story as well as the comments.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Actually a few readers did not like the way my MC discovered his wife's cheating. It was 'too much a trope.' A strange car, coming home late etc are similar tropes. I did not want to waste too much time and distract from the story.
BTB is not 'beating the bastards' it is burn.. Exacting revenge of some sort. At the very least getting rid of the cheater in a a way she does not enjoy. Many readers who love BTB, do not like the violent endings. But they expect consequences.
I hope you read the story as well as the comments.

Yeah I read the whole story first. I saw those comments as well, but they're completely ulterior to my point in this thread.

 

[lovecraft68]

Don't take this as a pure defense or attack. Refer to the title upon the aforementioned urge: this post is to point out nuance in BTB stories and the LW category in general.

I found a Gambinluck story which has a lot of comments. It's LW and BTB subgenre, called Cuckolds Anonymous. Some of you won't believe what I found in the comments. It's a non-violent BTB story; the cheating wife doesn't get abused or r*ped or murdered or anything like that, not even a slap in the face. I found this refreshing compared to BTB's reputation on the forums. It has about 87 comments as of this posting. The first thing I'll point out is that certain vocal readers actually liked the fact that it was nonviolent.

What's even more surprising than that is the fact that I actually found comments condemning BTB as a subgenre altogether.


This proves that for certain members of the LW readership, BTB is getting old. It's considered a lower art form by some: "you're above that" and all that. I know these posts are a year old, but has that much changed in a year? Cuck stories still get posted on LW, there was probably one posted today, for all I know.

It just cannot be that the entire category is infested with vicious BTB trolls. I think more than anything the smartest people who read the category just want to read something new.

There will always be some folks that will call out stories that don't belong on an erotica site, and some that can enjoy a non over the top representation of the genre. But they're few and far between. Find an outright BTB story and see all the jackals reveling in it, and you get a better picture of the genre. The author you found didn't write what the purists there would call a BTB story. I'm sure some people there think he's a wimp

And I disagree, its not getting old-again to a decent reader possibly-its on the rise, the category has gotten far worse than better when it comes to the Incel and BTB crowd. They're found their safe haven and they're not giving it up.

What you found was a glitch in the matrix.

 

[madelinemasoch]

There will always be some folks that will call out stories that don't belong on an erotica site, and some that can enjoy a non over the top representation of the genre. But they're few and far between. Find an outright BTB story and see all the jackals reveling in it, and you get a better picture of the genre. The author you found didn't write what the purists there would call a BTB story. I'm sure some people there think he's a wimp

And I disagree, its not getting old-again to a decent reader possibly-its on the rise, the category has gotten far worse than better when it comes to the Incel and BTB crowd. They're found their safe haven and they're not giving it up.

What you found was a glitch in the matrix.

I mean, BTB just means revenge against a cheating wife. It doesn't have to be a violent revenge, physically.

I have seen the jackals revel elsewhere, and I did see at least one comment saying that the vengeance seemed "lame" in comparison to the "extent of the cheating."

I was just really excited to see BTB get criticized in the LW category

 

[Gamblnluck]

t just cannot be that the entire category is infested with vicious BTB trolls. I think more than anything the smartest people who read the category just want to read something new.

Yes they do. They want something different than the old tropes. How the cheating is discovered, the excuses the cheaters make, and especially the revenge exacted. NEW is better.

 

[lovecraft68]

I mean, BTB just means revenge against a cheating wife. It doesn't have to be a violent revenge, physically.

I have seen the jackals revel elsewhere, and I did see at least one comment saying that the vengeance seemed "lame" in comparison to the "extent of the cheating."

I was just really excited to see BTB get criticized in the LW category

Ironically that story probably didn't have a lot to critique for a normal reader. But to the worst faction they do look for it to be violent and nasty they see this the way an incest reader would see sex with a step mom, its not real.

But yeah, the jackals are expanding, but the site loves them so they're not going anywhere.

 

[lc69hunter]

There will always be some folks that will call out stories that don't belong on an erotica site, and some that can enjoy a non over the top representation of the genre. But they're few and far between. Find an outright BTB story and see all the jackals reveling in it, and you get a better picture of the genre. The author you found didn't write what the purists there would call a BTB story. I'm sure some people there think he's a wimp

And I disagree, its not getting old-again to a decent reader possibly-its on the rise, the category has gotten far worse than better when it comes to the Incel and BTB crowd. They're found their safe haven and they're not giving it up.

What you found was a glitch in the matrix.

I tend to agree with you on this one

 

[Gamblnluck]

There will always be some folks that will call out stories that don't belong on an erotica site, and some that can enjoy a non over the top representation of the genre. But they're few and far between. Find an outright BTB story and see all the jackals reveling in it, and you get a better picture of the genre. The author you found didn't write what the purists there would call a BTB story. I'm sure some people there think he's a wimp

GLITCH? Funny, out of my 11 stories on LW (some were multi chapter so I call that a single story) EVERY one is a BTB story. Every one but 1 has a current rating above 4. That one was a sequel to a BTB story and I got ripped a new one in both comments and scoring.
Of course a few called me a wimp, a mental midget and many other things. I don;t think you could submit your name and quote out of the bible and not get called names.

 

[lovecraft68]

GLITCH? Funny, out of my 11 stories on LW (some were multi chapter so I call that a single story) EVERY one is a BTB story. Every one but 1 has a current rating above 4. That one was a sequel to a BTB story and I got ripped a new one in both comments and scoring.
Of course a few called me a wimp, a mental midget and many other things. I don;t think you could submit your name and quote out of the bible and not get called names.

But what you have now is a base. You're getting readers who know your name, what you write and have decided they like it so they're keeping you afloat. the others are the ones that are just going around hammering people, and maybe you personally for not delivering what they really want.

Its apples and oranges because what you're writing is not what BTB is now referred to, in the same like the word taboo doesn't necessarily mean incest...but on this site its become pretty much the only meaning.

Just because someone in NC writes 'light reluctance' doesn't mean the category isn't riddled with rape stories. Same here, you're not the norm, you're the exception. We'll see how it all looks in another year-as a whole, not so much your work-it will be even uglier than it is now.

 

[madelinemasoch]

But what you have now is a base. You're getting readers who know your name, what you write and have decided they like it so they're keeping you afloat. the others are the ones that are just going around hammering people, and maybe you personally for not delivering what they really want.

Its apples and oranges because what you're writing is not what BTB is now referred to, in the same like the word taboo doesn't necessarily mean incest...but on this site its become pretty much the only meaning.

Just because someone in NC writes 'light reluctance' doesn't mean the category isn't riddled with rape stories. Same here, you're not the norm, you're the exception. We'll see how it all looks in another year-as a whole, not so much your work-it will be even uglier than it is now.

Why do you think this problem is getting worse? Is it the comments sections on newer stories?

 

[Gamblnluck]

I kinda see where Lovecraft gets some of his ideas from. He wrote a torture story 11 years ago that got a 4.5 rating. Today it might not get 4 for several reasons. First he did not finish it.
It was well written. The characterizations are well done. All three characters are pieces of shit in their own way. It switched the reader's sympathy back and forth between husband and wife. She was horny but was upset her husband was not paying enough attention to her. She flirts with the young lawn boy and when the husband gets angry, he is considered abusive.
Turns out the husband is also cheating, which the lawn boy videos. So the wife ties the husband up and tortures him with a shock collar. And proceeds to screw the boy in revenge while periodically continuing the husband's torture. There the story ends.
I read some of the recent comments. They pointed out plot holes like the wife and boy toy would be arrested at the very least for the assault and torture not to mention tying him up. Those kind of things are what gets a story in LW low ratings nowadays. 11 years ago, not so much.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I mean, BTB just means revenge against a cheating wife. It doesn't have to be a violent revenge, physically.

I have seen the jackals revel elsewhere, and I did see at least one comment saying that the vengeance seemed "lame" in comparison to the "extent of the cheating."

I was just really excited to see BTB get criticized in the LW category

It gets criticized all the time. Everything gets criticized in there. It's baked into the category. Unless a story is explicitly labeled, either in its title, its description, or its tags, people go in not knowing what the story will be about, get invested, and then (sometimes) get angry when it didn't end exactly the way it was supposed to.

Here's a selection from "Philanthropic," a take on Indecent Proposal where the wife--who is more plot device than anything else--gets away relatively clean (divorced, "won" in the settlement, still has a job, etc.), but the MMC shoots the deranged billionaire to death after disseminating as much of his wealth as possible to charity:

Still need the bitch to pay

Really liked this! The allegory was subtle, but clear and maybe didn’t need quite so much exposition? But a truly excellent spin on a pretty tired “lit-trope”.
The only thing is the wife, paper thin, a cypher. For these stories to be truly great the women need a voice… Just my tuppence

This was the best of the Island Rich guy steals a wife stories. Wish it would have been a little longer and the wife/coworker/friends get destroyed.

Not your best. Tired trope, and the whole "cheated husband goes paramilitary" thing is silly. Not your best work, but I look forward to the next one. Thanks for sharing, have a great weekend. - gb

This is not one of your better ones -- too cold, in my opinion.

Man, you had me in the first half, not gonna lie. Glad I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that you aren't the type to do a cliche, cookie-cutter POS. I love that someone out there is willing to face the fact that, even cheaters are people. Motivations and history matter. That regret actually can lead to redemption (even if not in the particular case of Erin, which reflects the other side of the coin).
This deserves a 4.5 easy for originality and nuance alone, but the BTB man-children will probably drag it to something like 3.8, which is a shame.

I’m sure the BTB crowd will be jizzing all over themselves with this one. Not one of NTH’s best though, especially since he is clearly a top 5 writer on this site.

It amazes me just how so many people read an ordinary story and salivate about it simply because the outcome is filled with violence and bloodshed. It speaks a lot about the typical readership of loving wives.
Basically a copy of other, more original stories, but with a typical burn the bitch, violent ending.
No originality, nothing new, boring characters and predictable actions. There is nothing clever about copying a story and filling the end with clichés and bloodshed. Instead it shows a lack of imagination and creativity just to reap praise from even less intelligent amoebas.

Look at those last three, especially. People can't even agree on what a BTB is, much less whether it is/is not warranted.

These are from "In Health," where the husband takes care of his wife for 15 years through a degenerative disease that was supposed to be fatal. He does everything he can for her, including getting her into an experimental treatment program that provides a miraculous recovery. A couple years after that she abandons him, only saying goodbye through a Dear John letter, because she decides she wants a life of excitement, while he finally wants to rest. Literally the only "burn" in the story is that, at the end of her life 15 years later, he lies to her and raises his voice a couple of times when she's on her deathbed, after she begs him to visit her so she can apologize.

The lie this sick puppy was happy will come back to haunt him the acids of hate will shorten his life and all around him will leave as this hate bubbles to the surface. He will be found frozen to death on a cold winter day in the park
unmourned and forgotten.

A rather unpleasant tale about two very unpleasant people. The source material of this story lends itself to a more uplifting direction. It's a shame you didn't take it.

Congratulation. Very good story. What originality.
We are not all the same.
If some can forgive easily, others need this anger, this hatred to be able to stand up and move forward.
It's really good that you opted for this option, which is rare in this site where the majority of authors see themselves as White Knights or Holy Men.

Now that’s what I call a story! Justice! Personally I’m prepared to wait for retribution, so that it comes like lightening from a cloudless sky!

Chloe's only crime was to fall out of love. On the other hand, Nate is an evil, vicious man who will make life miserable for everyone he touches. I've said it before, but some of you authors don't seem to understand what your stories reveal about yourselves.

Damn. I don't hate my first husband enough to do that and he put me in the hospital.

As it happens, I was listening to Don Henley's song directly before I read this. This is the single most devastating BTB story I can recall.

I can’t figure out whether to love this or hate it. I really liked the MC until the deathbed scene, so in the end they were both assholes. I hate the outcome so much that the 5 stars I planned just aren’t happening. But the story was far too compelling to give it the 1 star I feel it deserves after that awful scene. My choice is to abstain from giving a rating, and yet still thank you for taking the time to write it.

A good well written story
the story was outstanding as it made me feel the hatred Nate had inside him
that hatred did scared me a little because it was almost realistic
felt sorry for Nate for having a difficulty in moving on as that hate and anger stalled him
I am just saddened that he had to be very vicious with Chloe

Note: that last one was from one of the biggest BTB boosters on the site, which surprised the hell out of me.

No violence against literally anyone, and it was still too much for a lot of people, including several names that absolutely flabbergasted me. A few said that he needed to get more (should have had kids of his own with his second wife, etc.), but very few people said Chloe got burned too hard. Instead, most looked for more mercy even though, again, the only thing the MMC directly did to her was be mean to her while she was on her deathbed.

 

[NoTalentHack]

In Fathers, Brothers, and Sons, the wife had a one-time fling that resulted in the couple's only son, which she hid from him for 16 years. They reconcile eventually, but the husband is angry and sometimes cruel throughout until he manages to get past his bitterness and her betrayal.

Good story. 5 stars for the writing....almost gave it 4 stars for the reconciliation but, that one was many layered. At what point do we believe that someone has paid/atoned for the wrong they have done?

What a vicious bastard. Why in the world would she want to stay married to a man like that?

Can only give this 3, 1st because it is to long, but 2nd most importantly he was a ass. As a 46 year old man, he is not reacting like a mature adult man, but like a hurt little boy. He needed a friend to kick his ass and tell him to grow up and forgive her for a one time mistake. His inability to understand and forgive her at the start shows to me that he doesn't her or his children.

But beyond that, ignoring the comments (which are a small, small percentage of the voters and an even smaller percentage of the readers), the ratings on my stories tell the, uh, story. In order from highest to lowest, the endings are:

Unwanted Memories - Difficult to classify, but easiest to call "moving on" - 4.7
After the Future is Gone - Moving on, nothing bad happens to the wife or affair partner - 4.67
At the End of the Tour - violence towards the AP, only a tonguelashing for the wife - 4.58
No Place to Go - man chooses to forgive deceased wife, if only for his own peace of mind - 4.58
Reassessing My Life - moving on, no burn for the wife or AP - 4.55
In Health - See above - 4.54
When the Shooting Stops - Divorce, then reconciliation with the husband admitting his own role in the divorce - 4.53
Also-Ran - Reconciliation, affair partner goes to prison - 4.49
Arbitrary - Reconciliation - 4.48
I Know My Wife - Non-violent burn/consequences only - 4.45
The Voice of Experience - Wife chooses not to cheat after hearing another woman's (who never got caught) story - 4.45
Honesty Above All - Divorce, but no real burn - 4.44
Fathers, Brothers, and Sons - Reconciliation after she hid her son's true parentage for 15 years - 4.44
Incompatible Needs - Polyamorous throuple successfully navigates struggles - 4.44
Grave Cruelties - Burn, but not against wife, who is deceased when the story begins; husband still loves her and talks fondly about her - 4.42
Her Master's Voice - Violent BTB against AP, mental trauma for wife - 4.41
Spoken in Anger - Can't classify this one easily - 4.41
Shouldering the Burden - Husband recommits to taking care of his wife through her twilight years - 4.4
Philanthropic - See above - 4.4
Why She Cheated - Couple that cheat together stay together - 4.39
Funeral Dirge for a Fairytale - Sequel to At the End of the Tour that ends with a reconciliation and long, loving marriage - 4.37
February Sucks: Sessions - Moving on - 4.36
Waiting in Limbo - Man walks away when wife's child is visibly not his, no other consequences - 4.32
You Could Have Stayed - Reconciliation after divorce - 4.24
Secrets After Midnight - Burn, but sort of for her own good? - 4.23
Indulgences - Reconciliation - 4.15
The Last Snowfall - MMC commits suicide - 3.99
Kayfabe - Cuckold/Hotwife couple find their happy ending - 3.88


My takeaway is that reconciliation doesn't necessarily do great, but it also doesn't do poorly, as long as it feels earned. Burns mostly do roughly as well as reconciliations. Moving on seems to do best.

However, burns can get away with being poorly written, because they're usually very simple stories. In some ways, they do better that way; when you inflict vengeance on a well-developed character (unless they're just absolutely monstrous), people don't like it.

 

[madelinemasoch]

In Fathers, Brothers, and Sons, the wife had a one-time fling that resulted in the couple's only son, which she hid from him for 16 years. They reconcile eventually, but the husband is angry and sometimes cruel throughout until he manages to get past his bitterness and her betrayal.









But beyond that, ignoring the comments (which are a small, small percentage of the voters and an even smaller percentage of the readers), the ratings on my stories tell the, uh, story. In order from highest to lowest, the endings are:

Unwanted Memories - Difficult to classify, but easiest to call "moving on" - 4.7
After the Future is Gone - Moving on, nothing bad happens to the wife or affair partner - 4.67
At the End of the Tour - violence towards the AP, only a tonguelashing for the wife - 4.58
No Place to Go - man chooses to forgive deceased wife, if only for his own peace of mind - 4.58
Reassessing My Life - moving on, no burn for the wife or AP - 4.55
In Health - See above - 4.54
When the Shooting Stops - Divorce, then reconciliation with the husband admitting his own role in the divorce - 4.53
Also-Ran - Reconciliation, affair partner goes to prison - 4.49
Arbitrary - Reconciliation - 4.48
I Know My Wife - Non-violent burn/consequences only - 4.45
The Voice of Experience - Wife chooses not to cheat after hearing another woman's (who never got caught) story - 4.45
Honesty Above All - Divorce, but no real burn - 4.44
Fathers, Brothers, and Sons - Reconciliation after she hid her son's true parentage for 15 years - 4.44
Incompatible Needs - Polyamorous throuple successfully navigates struggles - 4.44
Grave Cruelties - Burn, but not against wife, who is deceased when the story begins; husband still loves her and talks fondly about her - 4.42
Her Master's Voice - Violent BTB against AP, mental trauma for wife - 4.41
Spoken in Anger - Can't classify this one easily - 4.41
Shouldering the Burden - Husband recommits to taking care of his wife through her twilight years - 4.4
Philanthropic - See above - 4.4
Why She Cheated - Couple that cheat together stay together - 4.39
Funeral Dirge for a Fairytale - Sequel to At the End of the Tour that ends with a reconciliation and long, loving marriage - 4.37
February Sucks: Sessions - Moving on - 4.36
Waiting in Limbo - Man walks away when wife's child is visibly not his, no other consequences - 4.32
You Could Have Stayed - Reconciliation after divorce - 4.24
Secrets After Midnight - Burn, but sort of for her own good? - 4.23
Indulgences - Reconciliation - 4.15
The Last Snowfall - MMC commits suicide - 3.99
Kayfabe - Cuckold/Hotwife couple find their happy ending - 3.88


My takeaway is that reconciliation doesn't necessarily do great, but it also doesn't do poorly, as long as it feels earned. Burns mostly do roughly as well as reconciliations. Moving on seems to do best.

However, burns can get away with being poorly written, because they're usually very simple stories. In some ways, they do better that way; when you inflict vengeance on a well-developed character (unless they're just absolutely monstrous), people don't like it.

Thanks for your strenuous insights.

Is BTB not as big a subgenre as I assume? The idea that vengeance on well-developed characters isn't enjoyed in LW suggests that BTB is actually a very small contingent of the readers, and probably even of the stories that are posted there. This is fascinating because of the category's bad reputation. How much of that reputation would you say is unearned?

 

[NoTalentHack]

Thanks for your strenuous insights.

Is BTB not as big a subgenre as I assume? The idea that vengeance on well-developed characters isn't enjoyed in LW suggests that BTB is actually a very small contingent of the readers, and probably even of the stories that are posted there. This is fascinating because of the category's bad reputation. How much of that reputation would you say is unearned?

It used to be huge, for about five years, but even back then it wasn't usually violent towards the wives. It still exists, but violence (outside of an asskicking for the AP) is pretty rare. I'm trying to think of the last one I saw that had any real violence, and, honestly, my noir story is the only one that readily comes to mind, and that was months ago.

As I've said before, I think the category's reputation comes from three main sources: (mostly) anonymous commenters that get really out there in terms of violent fantasies; a relatively brief period when BTBs (especially violent ones) were plentiful; and a generally different vibe between LW and most of the rest of the site that makes it hard to score well there, which is interpreted as BTB-focused incels, as opposed to a difference in taste between core Lit readers and LW ones.

That last one is slippery, but what I generally mean is that the things that are valued elsewhere: hot sex scenes, catering to particular kinks, and especially repetition of story elements are things that do well in most categories and poorly in LW over time. Sharing/swapping/swinging was hot early on; it's not now. Cucking (of the more limited, hotwifery type) was hot, and now it's now. BTB was hot, and now it's not. As to what is hot now? Well, I think everyone's trying to figure that out or, alternately, doing like me and not worrying about it.

It's funny, but what it most reminds me of is the country/western music genre in the late 80s and early 90s. The industry was in a tailspin; the old guard from the 50s and 60s waves were dying or retiring, the newer "young country" artists couldn't find a niche that guaranteed success after the late 80s, and the entire radio market for it was collapsing. In that environment, artists and labels were trying literally anything they could; you had an out lesbian (k.d. lang), a crooner (Lyle Lovett), and a comedy rockabilly guy (Mojo Nixon) sometimes all on the same station back to back, mixed in with throwbacks, proto-"dirt trucks and tight blue jeans" types, flailing young country guys, etc.

That's kind of like LW now. In order on the new list, you have:
Open marriage/hotwife
Poly throuple
Non-violent BTB
The first chapter of what will probably be a swinging or hotwife story
Swapping
Hotwife, I think? It's like the ninth chapter
Temptation and pseudo-cheating
Hotwife
Some kind of character study that is getting the guy raked over the coals for stealing someone else's character
Consequences
Cheating and divorce with a happy ending for all
February Sucks moving on continuation
Sharing
Hotwife prostitution
Fantasy
Hell if I know; it's like 60K words
First half of a story that could be cheating or fantasy/roleplay
Cheating into swapping into more cheating into consequences
Hotwife
Nonviolent burn
Willing cuckold/voyeurism with a wife that thinks she's getting away with cheating
A midorigreengrasses story, which means your guess is as good as mine
Slow burn netorare/NTR story
Hotwife prostitution

None of these have a 4.5 or higher rating. Hell, none of them have a 4.3 rating. Only five stories in the last 30 days have a 4.5+ rating, all of them either consequences/light burn or roleplay fantasy stories, and all of them that write pretty well from a technical/plotting/characterization stance.

The category is ripe for reinvention.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Is BTB not as big a subgenre as I assume? The idea that vengeance on well-developed characters isn't enjoyed in LW suggests that BTB is actually a very small contingent of the readers, and probably even of the stories that are posted there. This is fascinating because of the category's bad reputation. How much of that reputation would you say is unearned?

It is a big subgenre but BTB is not exactly what you think it is or what is commonly the opinion here on the forum. BTB in general is that justice is served at the end of the story. Yes. Half way through a well written story the reader finds his bloodpressure rising thinking how he'd love to take a baseball bat to his cheating wife's lover knees. Or some such emotion. At the end, if reconciliation is deserved and the author shows that, then all is well. If the wife is a hateful soul crushing bitch, she deserves what fate befalls her.
The goal of a BTB story is to evoke an emotional response, not just titillate a sexual one.

 

[Britva415]

It just cannot be that the entire category is infested with vicious BTB trolls

I'm talking right out my ass because I don't read or write in the category, all my exposure is based on what people say in the Author's Hangout. But my impression wasn't that the entire category was infested with vicious BTB trolls, my impression was that those trolls are the loudest voices even while they might be a minority.

Did I misunderstand "entire category is infested" to mean "it's all LW authors write about," when really what was meant was "every story posted there gets vicious comments from these trolls?"

 

[madelinemasoch]

I'm talking right out my ass because I don't read or write in the category, all my exposure is based on what people say in the Author's Hangout. But my impression wasn't that the entire category was infested with vicious BTB trolls, my impression was that those trolls are the loudest voices even while they might be a minority.

Did I misunderstand "entire category is infested" to mean "it's all LW authors write about," when really what was meant was "every story posted there gets vicious comments from these trolls?"

Yeah, what I really meant was the latter.

EVERY reader that comments is a vocal minority, because most don't comment at all.