Daddy Doms and the girls who love them

Netzach said:

Daddy/girl doesn't do it for me, Daddy/boy does, when I was bottoming I was the boy.

This has nothing to do with the plumbing of the participants, it's the dynamic of the relationship.

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It's funny you should mention that. For me, the Daddy/boy dynamic is exactly the same as Daddy/girl, except the sub identifies as femme within the context of the relationship. That's why I'm so appreciative of the girl movement in the leather community: it feels like boys have had their respected place for a long time, and it's about time that girls get in on it too. I don't think I could ever identify as a boy, and yet I feel like my relationship is the same as a lot of the Daddy/boy relationships I see. So being a girl gives me a place that others can recognize as "real" and valid. Again, it's the same thing as being a boy, for me...I just identify as femme.

shy slave said:

I read the articles that Etoile posted and however much I try I can't move past the word 'daddy.'

I am aware that in some parts of the States the word Daddy is used my his children for their whole life.

In the UK it is a word used by very young children only. Once they are about 7 years old it falls by the wayside and is replaced by 'Dad.'

I can't help but wonder if that is why it has such an ick factor for me, and the articles posted by Etoile did not resonant with me either.
In my culture the word 'Daddy' has associations with young children only.
Add in to that my dislike of role play and Daddy/girl play and Daddy/girl scenes start to merge. Whether they do in anyone else's head is not the issue.

As we have all said ad nauseam, labels are only what you make them. But if I had read a profile about Daddy Doms, I would have moved on depite his definition.
Its the actual word 'Daddy' thats the problem.

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You are not alone in your confusion. I try to understand, and I can see and understand the appeal for the very reason some have mentioned, the dynamics of nurturing, encouraging growth etc....these things I associate with a good real life father or mother, and the connection in that the lifestyle role attracts the label of Daddy or Mummy speaks to me of mimicking a relationship between parent and child. Changing the submissive or child role label to girl/boy/little girl etc., still does not change it for me as my own parents called me their little girl when I was small, and referred to us as 'their girls', so in that context it was still just another term for daughter.

Perhaps I just am missing something vital. I am prepared to accept people want this type relationship with the labels and dynamics and advocate their right to do so as it is not incest just as consensual SM is not abuse, play rape is not rape. For all the talk it has nothing to do with a real life parent child relationship I am not convinced except there are no blood ties. What about the ones who live in a relationship with a Daddy and Mummy? And this is not mirroring a real parent/child/family dynamic but including sex? If that is what people want, why try and portray it as not remotely resembling the RL situation or having any connection, and yet voicing the very same qualities, emotions, dynamics and roles? I admit, I am confused.

Catalina

It is fascinating how we react to labels and language. When I first started playing with the Daddy label I had to translate the word from my historical context of the word to a new definition for a new time and place. The term slave is still a problem for me, when I see it used I must take a moment to translate from my definition to a new meaning closer to what the people using it might mean.

I never would put "Daddy" next to my av, but "Panty Daddy" is fun and playful to me. I will continue to be "Daddy" at certain times and places for some and see what happens here at Lit. This thread is a great discussion and is helping me see how the word impacts others. I have struggled with what label fits me, as many of us have here. "Daddy" might be the closest yet. I know I would not want a 24/7 RL relationship based on it, but I am not a 24/7 roll sorta guy - nor do I think I would want it used in a public setting like a shopping mall.

More pondering and coffee is called for.

I guess I see the Daddy Dom "title" as simple a way to help sub-catagorize how someone views things... similar to how there are Bottoms/Submissives/Slaves.

There are some aspects of that dynamic I don't understand... there is a point at which reading a "Daddy Dom" profile (as Daddy or girl) causes a raised eyebrow, although I've not successfully put that point into words, yet.

catalina_francisco said:

And this is not mirroring a real parent/child/family dynamic but including sex? If that is what people want, why try and portray it as not remotely resembling the RL situation or having any connection, and yet voicing the very same qualities, emotions, dynamics and roles? I admit, I am confused.

Catalina

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Hi Cat -I do not want to pick apart your statement. I have highlighted two words only so I can reference them.

First I will say that in many marriage and family therapy practices working on unresolved mother/father issues that find there way into a husband/wife relationship is an early step in couples therapy. Many people are not completely “clean” of old stuff from childhood and bring it into other relationships. So much for my psych 101 class (smile)

I would get uneasy in a Daddy/girl relationship that is “resembling” a RL adult/child relationship – that model is too concrete for me. Being in a Daddy/girl (or boy) relationship that has a “connection” to that energy is different. There is some roll defining already set up by past experience, both actual and wished for, and room for creativity and spontaneity.

I believe we often bring some of our unfulfilled history to whatever we call this playground, and to our RL relationships. Most of the posting I do to my Sneak-a-peek thread are unfulfilled fem, class-clown and exhibitionist energy. I live alone because I have not been good at selecting partners that appreciate those attributes, so far. But I digress (and whine just a little)

Some in the classic BDSM Master/slave relationships are “voicing the very same qualities, emotions, dynamics and roles” of RL master and slaves, but I suspect are not fully based on what that reality is all about. I least I hope and pray it isn’t. And yet there are, IMHO, unhealthy Master/slave relationships, just as there are unhealthy Daddy/girl relationships.

I hope this continues the discussion.

Etoile said:

I think you mean the articles KC posted, yes?

I was not aware of the different usage of Daddy in the UK, that's very interesting. I don't know for sure if that's the reason this is squicking you so much, or if it's just the suggestion of incest in general. All I can do is repeat the description CutieMouse gave - it really has nothing to do with incest, but more about there being a teaching and nurturing component to the D/s relationship. Again, it's not Daddy/daughter...it's Daddy/girl.

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I am sorry, yes I meant KC.

When I was writing it I was still pondering my thoughts about you and your Daddy, which has always come across as 'normal' (yes, I know..what is normal..) to me.

Its never a good idea to think about one aspect whilst writing about another aspect of the same thing.

But I am interested in my own thought process which see your Daddy relationship in a different light to how I see the word Daddy.

I really have no idea why that is.

But if you, or anyone else, can figure it out I would love to know your thoughts

Etoile said:

It's funny you should mention that. For me, the Daddy/boy dynamic is exactly the same as Daddy/girl, except the sub identifies as femme within the context of the relationship. That's why I'm so appreciative of the girl movement in the leather community: it feels like boys have had their respected place for a long time, and it's about time that girls get in on it too. I don't think I could ever identify as a boy, and yet I feel like my relationship is the same as a lot of the Daddy/boy relationships I see. So being a girl gives me a place that others can recognize as "real" and valid. Again, it's the same thing as being a boy, for me...I just identify as femme.

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That's really interesting. I've found that a lot of Daddy/girl rels. replicate hetero Daddy/girl play more - so I found more of an emphasis on fragility and faux innocence than I'm really into and more service expectation and roughhousing with boys. That's just been the observations I've had in my own circles.

You know had I found a top who would have reacted to me as a femme without a litany of assumptions around that, had I found a top who was "over" my girl parts and had more interesting things to manipulate on me, I'd have so been there.

Actually my switch stud was like that, I'd bottom femme for him because it's not such a BFD. However, there's way too much TFTB involved in getting him to do it. It's too bad, he's so good at it, which is probably why he has to all the time in the external world.

shy slave said:

I read the articles that Etoile posted and however much I try I can't move past the word 'daddy.'

I am aware that in some parts of the States the word Daddy is used my his children for their whole life.

In the UK it is a word used by very young children only. Once they are about 7 years old it falls by the wayside and is replaced by 'Dad.'

I can't help but wonder if that is why it has such an ick factor for me, and the articles posted by Etoile did not resonant with me either.
In my culture the word 'Daddy' has associations with young children only.
Add in to that my dislike of role play and Daddy/girl play and Daddy/girl scenes start to merge. Whether they do in anyone else's head is not the issue.

As we have all said ad nauseam, labels are only what you make them. But if I had read a profile about Daddy Doms, I would have moved on depite his definition.
Its the actual word 'Daddy' thats the problem.

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I can see your problem, actually. I am the only person I know, my age, who refers to their dad as daddy. Both me and my sister, do. My brother and sister (who grew up with him) don't. But I could GO for a daddy dom, as long as he didn't expect me to call him daddy. (Of course it's moot point, K isn't a daddy dom.) *shrugs*

Beyond that, as much as the people in this thread aren't in relationships that resemble incestuous relationships, some people looking for Daddy dom's need that kind of play. I remember talking to a guy friend who was kinda talking to an interested sub. He ended up not taking her on, because she insisted on dressing up like a five year old girl and having her 'daddy' molest her. She was molested at five, and needed that kind of play. It seriously squicked my friend.

As His little girl - i can say i do enjoy Daddy and His role, but we limit play to being mildly sexual (though if it were real life and i were actually a young age would completely be illegal and disgust me) and anything rough i'm just His slut. There was no lack of a father in my life - I love my father, he's a great friend and we are close. I was no absued (sorry i'm saying all this because i get asked it more often than not)...

But seeing that my Master is older than me and how we came to be - Daddy and His little girl just works for us... He even reads me bedtime stories when i ask nicely...

I always understood the term 'daddy dom' like many here described, of nurturing, teaching, educating, loving dominant. And it's a concept that might be for me. I love being taken care of. At times I just need someone to hold and cuddle me and protect me from the world.
I have the advantage that the word 'daddy' doesn't squick me, because obviously I don't call my father 'daddy'. If I substitute 'daddy' for my German word it's a major ick. So it's pretty much the opposite from Shy's understanding of the word.

Dominance comes in many many forms, as a good many of us here know. Far too many take the view that belittling, bondage and beatings equate to dominance. The version of Dom known as Daddy is often one that is more catered to an emotional fulfillment then the harder core in my own humble personal expierence.

I do enjoy D/s and Daddy fantasy, this has no connection to my own true family as I have no sexual ideas on my father. But there is something in being seen as a sexual creature by a nurturing adult male authority figure that appeals to me. Granted I also have a thing for clergy...but I am admittedly twisted.

For me Daddy is a title, one which I have never, even as a child, called my own father. He's always been Dad or Father to me, he is also over protective and unwilling to see me as an adult woman. That may be another part of the Daddy Dom which appeals to me. Being seen as and appreciated as a matured female rather then held forever in a childlike state.

Age play can be instereting for an occasional kink to me but it is never an ongoing thing as I prefer to maintain some sense of self. I can understand where for some it is a way to act out fantasies, complete otherwise unatainable desires or simply feed a fetish..I think we all have those needs wants and desires.

Bottom line (no pun intended) is that we all view things in our own subjective scope. As we have lived and expierenced so do we view. I can not begin to imagine how you see some situations I myself might find agonizingly erotic, while I might well be baffled by your own likes.

Daddy, Dom, Master..chosen titles with a heart of one similar being to me. The one which cares for and has taken a vested interest in my happiness and saftey. Again, just my views but every bit helps I always say.

I am still researching the various applications of this 'lifestyle' across a range of sources including testimony of people that actively participate and there is a huge variance from people whom do profess a link with incest play (ie between two consenting adults) through the spectrum of those who describe their relationships as I would classify a Mentor with 'benefits'. Really isn't that surprising considering the variations in any other chosen of embraced/applied lifestyle.

One thing I wish to add to the ongoing conversation on this Thread currently is the following.

Dominant/submissive relationships also encompass nurturing, teaching, educating, comforting and loving within the parameters of each individual partnerships expression . Part of the dynamic I am struggling with understanding is where these attributes and balances are in place in D/s why are they are constant descriptive as the feature of D/g or D/b relationships .

Yes there is more and I will get to it eventually

@}-}rebecca---- said:

I am still researching the various applications of this 'lifestyle' across a range of sources including testimony of people that actively participate and there is a huge variance from people whom do profess a link with incest play (ie between two consenting adults) through the spectrum of those who describe their relationships as I would classify a Mentor with 'benefits'. Really isn't that surprising considering the variations in any other chosen of embraced/applied lifestyle.

One thing I wish to add to the ongoing conversation on this Thread currently is the following.

Dominant/submissive relationships also encompass nurturing, teaching, educating, comforting and loving within the parameters of each individual partnerships expression . Part of the dynamic I am struggling with understanding is where these attributes and balances are in place in D/s why are they are constant descriptive as the feature of D/g or D/b relationships .

Yes there is more and I will get to it eventually

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Dear Dr. Rebecca (I ain't gona call you Sister Rebecca here right now )

Speaking only for myself, I do not call this Daddy/girl-boy thing as my “lifestyle”. It is one of a few rolls I will take upon myself, but I must say Daddy is by far the best fit of any other I have taken the past. But then I am not a 24/7 sort of guy as I have stated before.

Why do I like Daddy more then, say, Master/Owner/Top/Sir/Dom/pick-a-word? The “nurturing, teaching, educating, comforting and loving within the parameters of each individual partnerships expression” are less implied then in, oh say, “Master”, but that is just how I translate the words. Daddy also suggests rather directly to me the older male / much younger “ward”. Besides, it is more fun to say “daddy” then “dirty old man” and does not connote “lecher”. If I am someone’s Daddy I have responsibilities of behavior I more closely identify that the responsibilities I ascribe to “Sir”. I stay rather fluid and can take on the roll of several Top and bottom titles, but keep coming back to Daddy as the most comfortable.

Real age difference is not important to me at all, nor is body shape. (finding a size 18 school skirt to fit a 55 year old “boy” can be a real bitch) I can Daddy someone, male or female, older than myself, and have done so.

I do find legal aged young adults attractive, male and female (what is the female word for “twink”?). And there is some fantasy play in my mind in some of my Daddy stuff. But I am clear on how I deal with it. This aspect of an older man being attracted to a much younger person is part of the yuk factor for some, I’m sure. I would rather be a good daddy than an old lecher, but that might just be splitting hairs for some.

Am I addressing any of your questions?

Shankara20 said:

Dear Dr. Rebecca (I ain't gona call you Sister Rebecca here right now )

Speaking only for myself, I do not call this Daddy/girl-boy thing as my “lifestyle”. It is one of a few rolls I will take upon myself, but I must say Daddy is by far the best fit of any other I have taken the past. But then I am not a 24/7 sort of guy as I have stated before.

Why do I like Daddy more then, say, Master/Owner/Top/Sir/Dom/pick-a-word? The “nurturing, teaching, educating, comforting and loving within the parameters of each individual partnerships expression” are less implied then in, oh say, “Master”, but that is just how I translate the words. Daddy also suggests rather directly to me the older male / much younger “ward”. Besides, it is more fun to say “daddy” then “dirty old man” and does not connote “lecher”. If I am someone’s Daddy I have responsibilities of behavior I more closely identify that the responsibilities I ascribe to “Sir”. I stay rather fluid and can take on the roll of several Top and bottom titles, but keep coming back to Daddy as the most comfortable.

Real age difference is not important to me at all, nor is body shape. (finding a size 18 school skirt to fit a 55 year old “boy” can be a real bitch) I can Daddy someone, male or female, older than myself, and have done so.

I do find legal aged young adults attractive, male and female (what is the female word for “twink”?). And there is some fantasy play in my mind in some of my Daddy stuff. But I am clear on how I deal with it. This aspect of an older man being attracted to a much younger person is part of the yuk factor for some, I’m sure. I would rather be a good daddy than an old lecher, but that might just be splitting hairs for some.

Am I addressing any of your questions?

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Yes you have Sir Shank and thank you. I need a time out at this point to back track and will return to your post

@}-}rebecca---- said:

Dominant/submissive relationships also encompass nurturing, teaching, educating, comforting and loving within the parameters of each individual partnerships expression . Part of the dynamic I am struggling with understanding is where these attributes and balances are in place in D/s why are they are constant descriptive as the feature of D/g or D/b relationships .

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Speaking for myself (and my very limited experience *smiles*)...

I can't wrap my head around calling a Lover "Master" (or he calling me "Mistress"- Lordy it's was a struggle some days to hear "M'am"... anyway) and continue to place the words nurturing, comforting, and loving alongside their image in my head. Maybe it's similar to the mental hiccup you have with "Daddy"?

It reminds me of a very well known, very well educated, highly respected couple who did some presentations at a Leatherfest weekend I attended a few years ago. Their house consisted of a Master and slaves, and there was a strong military protocol- right down to the wearing of daily uniforms. (If I remember correctly- black pants, black polo shirt w/ a family crest, and Doc Martin style shoes... one slave was an attorney- she was allowed to wear black outside the home, but was in uniform at home.)

I could see that it worked for them. I could see that the slaves felt well attended to, and they were a strong "family"; however, the rigidity of that dynamic left me chilled inside.

I do believe all the attributes you listed are a part of every D/s relationshipat least on some level; I suspect the softer ones may be more blatantly obvious in a Daddy Dom/girl [boy] relationship- hence the consistant use of the description.

catalina_francisco said:

I am prepared to accept people want this type relationship with the labels and dynamics and advocate their right to do so as it is not incest just as consensual SM is not abuse, play rape is not rape.

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Thank you for understanding this much. That's what really matters. You are absolutely correct that it parallels the fact that consensual SM is not abuse...of course some people will insist that it will, but we know it's not. Similarly, some people will insist that D/g relationships are incest...but it's really not.

catalina_francisco said:

And this is not mirroring a real parent/child/family dynamic but including sex? If that is what people want, why try and portray it as not remotely resembling the RL situation or having any connection, and yet voicing the very same qualities, emotions, dynamics and roles? I admit, I am confused.

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I guess I don't really have a general answer for this. Personally, I did not grow up with a father figure, my mom was a single parent for most of my childhood. So maybe that's why there's a distinction between the two, for me. I'm not sure how others feel about it. Perhaps it would make more sense to use the term "mentor" to describe the dominant role? To me, that has a lot of the same qualities and dynamics, but I don't think it has any of the familial connotations. I'm not sure that "mentor" has the same loving emotions, though...

Shankara20 said:

I know I would not want a 24/7 RL relationship based on it, but I am not a 24/7 roll sorta guy - nor do I think I would want it used in a public setting like a shopping mall.

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I'm really liking your posts on this matter, Shanks. I'm curious - how do you think a 24/7 Daddy/girl relationship would be played out in a public vanilla setting? How would it be different from any other 24/7 relationship in a public vanilla setting? My dominant and I don't do a whole lot of public displays of affection as it is, but when we do, it has nothing to do with being 24/7 or not, being D/s or not, being Daddy/girl or not. I guess it might seem a little odd to others that I defer frequently to eir decisions, but it's not anything more unusual than other "non-girl" subs.

Shankara20 said:

Being in a Daddy/girl (or boy) relationship that has a “connection” to that energy is different. There is some roll defining already set up by past experience, both actual and wished for, and room for creativity and spontaneity.

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Yes! It's more about energy than playing out something realistic. It's about two adults, their interactions, and how they relate to each other more than "real" parent/child relationships. There is some of the power differential that is seen in "real" parental interactions, but that's by consensual choice of the sub, which it is not in the case of "real" parent/child relationships.

Etoile said:

It also sounds like you're assuming that the girl is willful. I think that's more a bratty sub thing. I don't think the definition of "girl" includes willful. In fact, for many girls, it is about serving Daddy. D/g can very much be a service-oriented relationship.

It really does sound like you're thinking of bratty subs, not little girls. That's the only situation I know of where there is an ongoing battle of wills. I'm not offended by your rant, I think it's just born of a lack of understanding and perhaps assigning characteristics of one group (brats/SAMs) to another group (Daddy/girl relationships).

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Etoile I meant to add last night that you are entirely correct those behaviours above are best ascribed to brats/SAMs at times. I have been wondering in the last 24hours how I came to attribute those characterisations to D/g when I have a minimal amount of experience. At this stage I believe its the 'submissives' that have attended the Boards here professing to look for a Daddy Dom and then gone into lists of what I personally consider trivial yet simultaneously outlandish demands from a successful partnership followed by contributing 'actual' examples in the 'Things Never to Say to your Dom Thread' here. If the stories are true it was a major miss haughty eye brow raise from me........smiles. Sheesh I am only human !!!! Yet another avenue I need to re examine now.

Thanks again Etoile

shy slave said:

pondering my thoughts about you and your Daddy, which has always come across as 'normal' (yes, I know..what is normal..) to me.

I am interested in my own thought process which see your Daddy relationship in a different light to how I see the word Daddy.

I really have no idea why that is.

But if you, or anyone else, can figure it out I would love to know your thoughts

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That is fascinating. The first explanation that comes to mind is a "love the sinner, hate the sin" perspective. For example, someone might be against homosexuality, but still have friends who are gay people, and they overlook that aspect of the person or just accept it as part of them. But in that case, one isn't having it brought up again and again, whereas I mention my Daddy frequently. I'm so touched that you have thought of my relationship that way, thank you.

...........

@}-}rebecca---- said:

At this stage I believe its the 'submissives' that have attended the Boards here professing to look for a Daddy Dom and then gone into lists of what I personally consider trivial yet simultaneously outlandish demands from a successful partnership followed by contributing 'actual' examples in the 'Things Never to Say to your Dom Thread' here. If the stories are true it was a major miss haughty eye brow raise from me........smiles. Sheesh I am only human !!!! Yet another avenue I need to re examine now.

Thanks again Etoile

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Quietly nodding along... I've raised an eyebrow (or two) reading some threads in the Personals section looking for Daddys, as well.

...........

Netzach said:

That's really interesting. I've found that a lot of Daddy/girl rels. replicate hetero Daddy/girl play more - so I found more of an emphasis on fragility and faux innocence than I'm really into and more service expectation and roughhousing with boys. That's just been the observations I've had in my own circles.

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Maybe it's because most of the people I know in D/g relationships are queer? In fact, pretty much all of the people I know in Daddy-type relationships are queer, regardless of gender or whether they are top or bottom. But pretty much all the girls I know are queer; some of them have male-bodied Daddies and some have female-bodied Daddies. They pretty much all identify as service-oriented and while some might pretend to be innocent sometimes, I don't see any of them as fragile!

i have seen this before

This was emailed to me by a young lady that i was considering starting a relationship with.