Thoughts on NoTalentHack's essay "Loving Loving Wives"

[madelinemasoch]

So, what's your issue?

I've written stories expecting 1-bombs. When I get them, it's like: SCORE!

No, I know what you mean. My frustration is with that entire social ecosystem where you'd even have to be expecting a 1-bomb at all. And I guess my mindset is so far removed from those of my haters that it came as a shock when I got all those hate comments. Like, from my point of view, it came out of nowhere. People can have takes on my work that I find completely baffling.

The main issue to me isn't that some people are so vociferous in their hatred, but that some other people just don't understand what I'm doing. Example:

by Whackdoodle  on 08/03/2023

Why would any woman want to marry a guy they had no respect for? A guy that they didn’t want to have sex with? A guy that they don’t even like?

I get this is fantasy but there has to be some semblance of reality. Who wants to spend their life, waking up to someone that they hold contempt for?
Why wouldn’t these women marry the man they love waking up to? The man who they want to have sex with? The man they want to be around?

Why shackle themselves to a broken and pathetic guy who is nothing to them?

In the very same chapter this comment is posted to, there's this (it's not even a complete sentence but it answers the question):

"feeling the power of the pain she had inflicted and knowing she would never lose a drop of value in her faithful little slave's eyes"

So the answer is
1. She finds it empowering to live this way
2. She knows how the world works. Most people view a woman who has a lot of sex as "ran through" or "damaged goods", as someone who's diminished their own value as a woman. The benefit of cuckoldry is she can have all the sex she wants while never losing any value to this particular individual she's dating/married to.

It's really not that hard to understand, but even when I lay it out bare for them, they can't dig in and fathom it. That's the most frustrating part. If there's a problem I've run into on this site, it's that dynamic.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

wholesome porn

Oxymoron much? Heh.

 

[inka2222]

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
Remember the Pineapple on Pizza analogy?

Imagine a place on the internet dedicated to Pineapple on Pizza.

Not for it. Not against it. Then imagine the ensuing rage. Lmao

Sorry, poor analogy. Pineapple on pizza is a personal choice that affects LITERALLY nobody and has ZERO moral and ethical depth. Aside from personal-preference "ick" factor, there's literally zero meaningful place or reason for conflict. If I (as a proper, mentally OK individual) see a post extolling that pizza with pineapple is great, I just roll my eyes at how weird people's tastes are, ignore said post happily (because downvoting it or arguing would waste my precious time) and continue on. If the combined place was well designed and allowed to filter pro- vs. con- pineapple posts, i'd literally just filter out pro-pineapple. BTW, it's similar with erotica and purely personal preferences too.

In case of LW and cheating (and especially cuckolding), the main reason for the conflict in the comments isn't simply "different personal preferences", but because the topic has a very important moral, ethical and societal dimensions; and because those "personal preferences" dramatically - and negatively - impact actual people. So, for many of us, reading a pro-cuckolding or pro-cheating story, is literally equivalent to reading pro-murder story, and we react the same way.

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

 

[madelinemasoch]

In case of LW and cheating (and especially cuckolding), the main reason for the conflict in the comments isn't simply "different personal preferences", but because the topic has a very important moral, ethical and societal dimensions; and because those "personal preferences" dramatically - and negatively - impact actual people. So, for many of us, reading a pro-cuckolding or pro-cheating story, is literally equivalent to reading pro-murder story, and we react the same way.

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

...then your priorities are all off. Cheating is not equivalent to murder.

 

[AchtungNight]

...then your priorities are all off. Cheating is not equivalent to murder.

I agree. I have twice dealt with women who cheated on me behind my back, left them on both occasions, with their full cooperation, but I have never equated it to murder or any other serious crime. The cheating in my LW story was sanctioned by both marriages involved. An open swinging marriage and one about to end where they were just waiting on the divorce paperwork… the story made this clear. Reviewers condemned my work in comments, one bombed it, acted like it was personally offensive to them that I did not share their kinks. I had to turn off voting on all my stories just to stop further angst over low scores without explanation or reviews I just did not appreciate. This site was not like this when I first started posting here. I do not appreciate categorization Nazis, people who give a low rating for a single spelling mistake and have apparently never heard of being polite, or toxic expectations of any kind. It is almost enough to make me stop posting here when coupled with other issues with which I’m dealing.

IRL, if the cheating in my past relationships had happened with open communication, I might have understood and condoned it. Especially if given a chance to work out the issues that prompted it. This was not the case. If that’s the cheating you’ve experienced, I sympathize with you but I still do not think you should be condemning open marriages in fiction and trying to force your opinions on others. Honestly, why are you moralizing on a porn site? It’s furthering the same sort of social stigma that makes people reluctant to write this stuff in the first place. And with a writer who already knows and recognizes the issues involved… we are all adults here. We do not need morality lessons with our erotica. We already know most of the relationships depicted on Lit are impossible in real life. We do not need self appointed judges condemning us. We’re here to enjoy our fantasies, not feel ashamed of them. You should be too.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

Dead wrong. Dead dead wrong. The author has no obligation to morals. Your argument is entirely based not only on morals, but on the totally arrogant assumption that your morals are the only ones that matter so therefore everyone should live and think just like you.

It's a story. It's a fiction. Art imitates life. If an artist wishes to express a moral doctrine he is free to do so - or not. If you don't like it, you are certainly free to criticize as loudly and downvote as you wish, but to claim that the quality of the work is poor simply because you morally disagree with it is on you and you alone. Don't blame the author for your vote.

Goodfellas is one of very few movies that realistically portrays day to day mafia life. It is full of murder, extortion, random assault and corruption. Many people heavily criticize this movie for 'glorifying' these 'morally repugnant' themes, but the movie is really showing us an accurate portrayal of mafia crime and corruption. If we were forced to have a tamed down version then we would be fed a lie of mafia life. So you have a choice, condemn a fiction on moral grounds, or put your morals away for a couple of hours and learn something.

Similarly, Trainspotting is a vivid ugly picture of heroin addiction. This movie was also criticized heavily for 'glorifying' heroin use, but if it were tamed down we would have been told a lie about the lifestyle. If you want to learn about life through art, watch movies and read stories like this. Or stick your head in the sand and bitch that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily bend to your morals - just as you don't necessarily bend to theirs - but whatever you do, don't blame the author for your morals. If you do you're just fooling yourself. Stand behind your words and take responsibility for your opinions.

You want a trigger warning, you say. Bullshit. If you go to the restaurant and order your fave dish but it comes too spicy or too dry or overcooked, do you throw the plate on the floor and have a tantrum? You want an LW story. You know that sometimes the stories there come overcooked or too spicy for your tastes. Reader beware.

But all you want is someone to agree with you and when you find out that they don't, you throw your toys out of the pram. Boohoo.

When I read a story, I don't want to know the ending. I'm disappointed when the plot is predictable. If you want a certain moralistic ending write it yourself. But no, you want someone to write your own morals for you. You want the world to kneel and slip that ring on your finger. Well keep waiting.

 

[djrip]

Sorry, poor analogy. Pineapple on pizza is a personal choice that affects LITERALLY nobody and has ZERO moral and ethical depth. Aside from personal-preference "ick" factor, there's literally zero meaningful place or reason for conflict. If I (as a proper, mentally OK individual) see a post extolling that pizza with pineapple is great, I just roll my eyes at how weird people's tastes are, ignore said post happily (because downvoting it or arguing would waste my precious time) and continue on. If the combined place was well designed and allowed to filter pro- vs. con- pineapple posts, i'd literally just filter out pro-pineapple. BTW, it's similar with erotica and purely personal preferences too.

In case of LW and cheating (and especially cuckolding), the main reason for the conflict in the comments isn't simply "different personal preferences", but because the topic has a very important moral, ethical and societal dimensions; and because those "personal preferences" dramatically - and negatively - impact actual people. So, for many of us, reading a pro-cuckolding or pro-cheating story, is literally equivalent to reading pro-murder story, and we react the same way.

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

Like pineapple on pizza, fictional stories about any topic affect no one. Stories about cheating and cuckoldry are fiction. They didn't really happen. Thus it remains a matter of taste and personal preference, not morality. Just like the pizza, if you don't like these stories you can role your eyes at them and ignore them happily.

 

[AchtungNight]

Character statement of my FMC Lisa Coleman, the main Loving Wife and sexual therapist of my fictional universe- “She adores having sexual relations. She knows that they don’t always go well, but when they do, they are worthwhile. She is not ashamed of seeking constant good erotic experiences with varied partners. She openly communicates that she wishes to be a slut and conducts her lifestyle with responsibility and ethics. She is not always brazen about it but neither is she hiding it. And she knows how and when to prioritize her other life issues over any sexual needs. The varied mostly positive sex life she enjoys is a source of empowerment for her, not the opposite. And she is confident she can continue to make it work.”

I like when the female characters I read about in erotica are like the above. The males too. It’s the kind of person I think we need more in the real world. And fiction, when presented and recognized as such, does not hurt anyone. I will gladly close the book, change the channel, or walk out of the movie if I’m not into the subject matter. Moral rants are not necessary for me. Especially not on a site that is already outlaw fringe and whose editors have already reviewed and approved my work.

 

[alohadave]

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

News articles about real life events are in no way equivalent to fictional stories.

If you can't make that distinction, then it's you that has the problem, not us. Because every author can tell the difference.

Propoganda. You and the denizens of LW need to get a life and touch grass. Maybe talk to a counselor about your unresolved feelings.

 

[AchtungNight]

News articles about real life events are in no way equivalent to fictional stories.

If you can't make that distinction, then it's you that has the problem, not us. Because every author can tell the difference.

Propoganda. You and the denizens of LW need to get a life and touch grass. Maybe talk to a counselor about your unresolved feelings.

The counselor in my ficverse already has a full client list. But she recommends the firm of Kyton, Fairfax, and Asmodeus. She says they are experienced with the sort of attitude LW trolls seem to prefer.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

There are plenty of stories just on this site where people get murdered, without the author including any kind of "murder is bad, mkay" disclaimer. They don't draw the same kind of hate that cheating/cuckold content does here - indeed, I've seen several LW stories which presented murder as a justifiable response to cheating, and got quite an enthusiastic response.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

This is such a childish and simple-minded way of looking at art, and at journalism.

First of all, as to news stories, the purpose of a news story is just to state the news, and not to moralize about it. A good journalist doesn't feel it necessary to end a story about a murder with "And remember, children, murder is bad!" A good journalist describes the facts, and lets the reader decide what to do in response to the facts.

Second, with art, whether it's fiction or something else, it is not the artist's necessary responsibility to condemn bad actions. An author can write a story about murder in which the murderer gets away with it, or in which the murder is described in a neutral way, leaving the reader the ability to make up his or her mind about the morality of the character's actions. In Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal Lecter gets away in the end. This doesn't mean, obviously, that the author condones murder. That would be an idiotic interpretation. The movie won the Oscar for Best Picture.

Anyone who believes that indulging in a fantasy in the context of an erotic story is necessarily condoning or glamourizing the subject of the fantasy, in my opinion, has no perspective on art or on human psychology. It's a ridiculous point of view that is flatly contradicted by the evidence we have about the complexity of people's fantasies.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Anyone who believes that indulging in a fantasy in the context of an erotic story is necessarily condoning or glamourizing the subject of the fantasy, in my opinion, has no perspective on art or on human psychology. It's a ridiculous point of view that is flatly contradicted by the evidence we have about the complexity of people's fantasies.

I'll go one further and state that any 'glorifying' of a story or movie (or any other art) is purely in the eye of the reader/viewer.

If anyone is familiar with the poem "In Flanders Fields" that is recited every year often by rote on November 11th, this poem was written by a soldier named John McCrae who wrote it as a call to arms. He actually intended it to glorify the war dead and inspire people to die for their king and country. He also is on record making radical racist statements against French Canadians who opposed conscription. The author was unapologeticly 100% pro war.

Yet his poem is heralded for over a century as a desperate plea for peace and a statement of the senseless waste of life that is war. The poem's interpretation has been entirely determined by public opinion and the author was powerless to stop it.

So for someone to claim that his own bad review (on moralistic grounds or otherwise) of a story is the author's own fault is bollocks. Only a fool would blame someone else for his own opinions.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Propoganda. You and the denizens of LW need to get a life and touch grass. Maybe talk to a counselor about your unresolved feelings.

If one wants to know just how childish the BtB crowd mentality is, I'll give an analogy.

Your favorite food is pad thai. Every restaurant makes pad thai a little differently. Some you like more than others and you have your favorite places, but every now and then you hear about a new place and drop in to have the pad thai. Sometimes it's just the way you like it and you rate it 5 stars. Sometimes they don't use enough peanut. Sometimes it's too oily. Sometimes they overcook the noodles to mush. When this happens you can pay the bill, leave and just not return since you know other places that make pad thai just how you like it. If you really want you can yell at the staff, tell them how awful it is, walk out without paying, then go home and smear them on yelp and instagram. That is your valid choice. You do you. What you're not going to do is return to the same restaurant. However, whenever a new place opens up you always run that risk of having a bad pad thai. You know this going in.

Your favorite type of story is a BtB. Every author writes an LW story differently. Some authors you like (because they give you your BtB ending) and others you do not like because they don't. You have your favorite authors that you can rely on to give you BtB. When you see a new author or a new story you give it a read to see if you can get your BtB fix. Sometimes you get it and sometimes you don't but you know that with a new author there will always be that risk. When you don't get your BtB fix you can close the tab and add that author to your 'no' list - or if you really want you can score the piece a 1 and leave a nasty comment about just how 'wrong' the author is. That is your valid choice. You do you. But then what you next is mindbending stupidity - you add the author to you 'hit' list and you go smear all of his other stories with 1s and spiteful comments.

Why the fuck does the BtB crowd do this? Why do they keep going back to the same restaurant that they hate? The servers have nice tits or something? I'll tell you why. It's because they're stupid children having tantrums, that's why.

And inka wants a trigger disclaimer at the top of the story? No. inka wants a spoiler at the top of the story that tells him that the story will end the way that he wants it or not - a spoiler that ruins it for anyone who actually wants to ... you know ... read? If he only cares about the ending then why does he even bother fucking reading? The answer to that is, he's not reading. He's just looking for other people to agree with his morals and doesn't give a fuck whether that spoils anyone else's experience, so he's being selfish too. All the hallmarks of immaturity.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

This is why you (or any author) who does not clearly indicate VIA THE STORY that they hate cheaters and cuckolding, gets hate in comments and 1 stars. Because you have literally just made the world at least a little bit worse, posting pro-cheating propaganda. We would give the same hate to a news article gleefully extolling a criminal who escaped justice as to a LW story with the cheater escaping punishment. We see a cuck story on LW the same way we see a news article about domestic abuse which doesn't explicitly condemn the abuse or the abuser and instead tries to present it as a nice life choice.

I have to ask, do you have the same level of vitriol for movies which glorify murder, like Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street? In that same vein, do you also down-vote stories which revel in the murder of unfaithful spouses?

If so, the at least you are consistent, but it leaves me wondering why you would frequent an erotica site, and why in particular, you would frequent a category dedicated to:

"Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more"

I dislike infidelity both in real life and in fiction, but that's the reason why I basically never read LW stories. I honestly can't understand why you do.

 

[inka2222]

I have to ask, do you have the same level of vitriol for movies which glorify murder, like Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street? In that same vein, do you also down-vote stories which revel in the murder of unfaithful spouses?

If so, the at least you are consistent, but it leaves me wondering why you would frequent an erotica site, and why in particular, you would frequent a category dedicated to:

"Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more"

I dislike infidelity both in real life and in fiction, but that's the reason why I basically never read LW stories. I honestly can't understand why you do.

1. To address this specific quoted comment (honestly, the only one worth answering since it's actually civil and not an ad hominem attack, AND doesn't just make up and assume things about me):

* Yes, indeed, I absolutely hate horror movies, in large part because they are immoral (as you said, glorify murder of innocents). Heck, I hate modern Halloween for the same ethical reason - it's a holiday where people glorify evil things, if you think about it on a level deeper than "trick or treat candy".

* I have never seen a story about a murder of a cheating spouse (but will downvote if I ever saw one). Justified killing, I saw. Murder is unjustified killing if you look at both dictionary definition in English, as well as the specific meaning of Hebrew word in 10 commandments, which people nearly always mis-translate. Yes, 10 commandments do NOT prohibit "killing" in general. They prohibit unjustified killing of an innocent - murder.

And yes, I would downvote stories which revel in unjustified murder of an innocent person 100%. Specifically, I would definitely downvote a story where an "accidental" cheater is killed in revenge (e.g. someone who didn't deliberately set out to cheat and is clearly repentant immediately after) if I ever saw a story like that - but I never saw one. In that case I would agree it's murder and downvote accordingly. To give even less space to ad hominem attacks, I will state that even in BTB stories, I would 100% ALWAYS prefer the punishment for general cheating (not involving egregious circumstances) to be a divorce where the cheater receives no financial benefit or custody, e.g. due to harsh pre-nup; and NOT extreme violent BTBs. NOT every cheating situation morally justifies ending a human life - only a small egregious minority, largely where cheating is accompanied by other severe moral offenses.

* Matter of fact, I'm consistent for ALL the stuff I dislike on moral grounds. I would downvote a LW story where there is rape of an innocent person portrayed as a good thing. Thankfully, almost every story like that is firewalled behind NonConsent instead of LW. And guess what, if pro-cheating and pro-cuck content was firewalled behind a dedicated easy to ignore branch of the site, I'd happily ignore it the same way I ignore 100% of NC stories. And before all'y'all yell about "women hating" like your type tend to, I also downvote pro-cheating-male stories, with the same consistency as pro-cheating-female.

* Which brings us back to the last point/question you made. I frequent erotica website because I used to like to read erotica. DUH. (as I aged, I got bored with pr0n and started reading for the plots and the human drama, which is in part why I like LW stories, and started skipping the actual "erotica" parts a lot, the way I skipped "Peace" parts in "War and Peace" when I first read it as a teen .

* More specifically, I read LW category stories because the stories I like (cheating victims SUCCESSFULLY handling cheating, either via revenge or via living well) were placed in the overall LW swamp by site owners. I don't have the option of ONLY reading them separate from everything else. This is because by the time I discovered the category, it was NOT about "swinging/sharing" but about that AND cheating drama - the main fault here lies with site owners, who BOTH mis-named the category misleadingly; AND decided to lump together 3 COMPLETELELY UNRELATED sets of stories (swinging/sharing; cheating drama; and cuckoldry). To repeat my last bullet point, if the 3 were separated, I'd happily 100% ignore any stories from cuckoldry area the way I ignore NC stories; and only read swinging/sharing ones that are exceptional - swinging doesn't offend me morally if the kink is 100% voluntary and not coerced, they just don't interest me as a kink; and I never downvote them in LW now. Swinging etc... are my LW equivalent of NonHuman stories - not my circus, not my monkeys... except they don't have their separate category I can ignore unlike NonHuman ones do).

2. Wow, the amount of butthurt and vitriol **aimed at a comment trying to genuinely explain things and answer a question "why do people dislike" is incredibly ironic and amusing. So, it's OK to react with butthurt and vitriol to a comment on a forum, but NOT OK to criticize a story, eh?

3. If you don't want to hear the answer to "why", don't ask that question. Unless of course the only disingenuous point of asking it was to commiserate with people who 100% agree with you that the answer is "no reason, ever".

 

[madelinemasoch]

...in conclusion, we have the first ever BTB author to blame for the state of LW. I don't know who they are, but they started the fire.

 

[Red_Herring4]

Specifically, I would definitely downvote a story where an "accidental" cheater is killed in revenge

Wait. Does that mean you might be okay with a story in which an "intentional" cheater is killed in revenge? Surely not?

NOT every cheating situation morally justifies ending a human life - only a small egregious minority, largely where cheating is accompanied by other severe moral offenses

Never mind. Yikes.

 

[inka2222]

Wait. Does that mean you might be okay with a story in which an "intentional" cheater is killed in revenge? Surely not?

If you bothered reading my reply, the threshold where I would consider violence to be an appropriate resolution is not determined by cheating itself, but by other severe moral offenses which accompany the cheating. And I mean severe. Simply having a 2 year affair isn't rising to that level in my view despite being "intentional" - it definitely warrants a "divorce and leave her penniless" type BTB, but not violence.

I'm sure you can find a marginally small but extremely loud minority who would cheerfully murder anyone who cheated for any reason and in any circumstance, but I'm not one of those. And if they were (like in all'yall's imagination) anything EXCEPT a tiny minority, every single LW story that involved cheating but didn't end in cheater's death, would get at best 3, or likely 2 average star ratings, which you know perfectly well isn't the case even for RAACs, never mind non-RAACs that at least typically get ~4 stars

 

[Lifestyle66]

If you bothered reading my reply, the threshold where I would consider violence to be an appropriate resolution is not determined by cheating itself, but by other severe moral offenses which accompany the cheating. And I mean severe. Simply having a 2 year affair isn't rising to that level in my view despite being "intentional" - it definitely warrants a "divorce and leave her penniless" type BTB, but not violence. I'm sure you can find a marginally small but extremely loud minority who would cheerfully murder anyone who cheated for any reason and in any circumstance, but I'm not one of those.

But your caveats and nuisances suggest you WOULD murder a cheater for something which YOU consider a severe moral offense.

That's disturbing.

 

[Red_Herring4]

If you bothered reading my reply, the threshold where I would consider violence to be an appropriate resolution is not determined by cheating itself, but by other severe moral offenses which accompany the cheating. And I mean severe. Simply having a 2 year affair isn't rising to that level in my view despite being "intentional" - it definitely warrants a "divorce and leave her penniless" type BTB, but not violence. I'm sure you can find a marginally small but extremely loud minority who would cheerfully murder anyone who cheated for any reason and in any circumstance, but I'm not one of those.

I did read your reply. You said that some percentage of cheating situations justify murdering the cheater.

Maybe you can enlighten those of us who don't have your clear-eyed morals: under what circumstances is it okay to murder your cheating spouse?

 

[inka2222]

...in conclusion, we have the first ever BTB author to blame for the state of LW. I don't know who they are, but they started the fire.

That's victim blaming. The blame is squarely on LE owners or whoever it is that decides on categories available. So "Anal" gets a separate category that it honestly doesn't need AT ALL in 2023 (seriously, who'd mind if 100% of anal stories were in Romance or EC categories?); but LW was first named misleadingly (it should have been named "Swinging" or "Alternate marriages" or similar); Second mistake was to not allocate a separate category for a morally questionable and clearly-not-for-everyone "cuckolding" category the way non-consensual stories have their own area; and then to top those 2 mistakes off, they decided to bunk it with "cheating drama" category. The three buckets have literally nothing in common (especially #3 with the first 2); and the fact that they garner opposite audiences was just an inescapable outcome of these poor decisions..

 

[SimonDoom]

That's victim blaming. The blame is squarely on LE owners or whoever it is that decides on categories available. So "Anal" gets a separate category that it honestly doesn't need AT ALL in 2023 (seriously, who'd mind if 100% of anal stories were in Romance or EC categories?); but LW was first named misleadingly (it should have been named "Swinging" or "Alternate marriages" or similar); Second mistake was to not allocate a separate category for a morally questionable and clearly-not-for-everyone "cuckolding" category the way non-consensual stories have their own area; and then to top those 2 mistakes off, they decided to bunk it with "cheating drama" category. The three buckets have literally nothing in common (especially #3 with the first 2); and the fact that they garner opposite audiences was just an inescapable outcome of these poor decisions..

To be fair to the site owners, I doubt they could have anticipated how this category would have evolved, and they probably were completely unaware of the audience for "cheating drama" stories. The category started off simply enough as a grab bag for readers who enjoy stories where the wife has sex outside marriage, of whatever type. I don't think they could have predicted the animosity that would arise between the factions. I agree the "Loving Wives" label wasn't the best choice, but it wouldn't have seemed so bad way back when they started things and had no idea how things would go.

I just don't understand why those who share your story preferences--which are fine with me, by the way--don't simply ignore the other types of stories you don't like. It's pretty easy to do. It's usually very obvious early on, especially if you look at the tagline and tags, to tell what kind of story it is and steer clear of it if it's not your cup of tea. I don't get the "pooping on other people's fun" attitude that so many have toward the cuckold and hot wife stories.

 

[inka2222]

But your caveats and nuisances suggest you WOULD murder a cheater for something which YOU consider a severe moral offense.
That's disturbing.

Funny, I would consider it disturbing that you wouldn't justifiably kill someone who for example uses the machinery of gun-armed state to steal children from their father just so the cheater is happier. That shows a level of both misandry AND indifference to child's well being (as well as societal at larger level) that is unparalleled in its cruelty and lack of empathy. Yes, some things deserve capital punishment. Not a lot of them. But not an empty list.

 

[madelinemasoch]

That's victim blaming.

victim of what?! What was the first BTB author a victim of?

but LW was first named misleadingly (it should have been named "Swinging" or "Alternate marriages" or similar);

I think they thought the description does the job. They were partially right (some people got the joke) and partially wrong (others didn't). Sounds comparable to the response to any story posted there, imo.

Second mistake was to not allocate a separate category for a morally questionable and clearly-not-for-everyone "cuckolding" category the way non-consensual stories have their own area

That fell under the original LW umbrella. "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more"

they decided to bunk it with "cheating drama" category

There wasn't a "cheating drama" category until the first time a story like that was written and published there. Hence why I said we have the first BTB author to blame.

LW evolved into what it is today because authors made certain decisions and then readers did the same.