Loving Wives vs Incest/Non-conscent

[EmilyMiller]

LOL. I'm wondering what your definition of "is" is.

I was directed to hentaied dot com by people on AH. I replicated many of the tropes, but made it consensual.

SPOILERS



Emily

 

[lustychimera]

As a fantasy kink, NC still isn't my thing, but I get the kink, and what complicates things here is the site's double talk of 'we don't allow rape stories, but hey, see our non consent section?" so, some of this on their sketchy 'rules' and maybe that's where the "this doesn't belong here" comes from?

I'm with you on that. Granted I've only written a handful of stories on here from time to time, but in the forums, I've seen how people discuss that non-con stories need some shred of consent or pleasure--which, yeah, is a complete double standard.

Rape is rape. "Your honor, I'd like to make one quick point: She whimpered in ecstasy a bit there at the end, so...you know."

That being said, I can totally understand how pure rape would turn a lot readers off and attract a really undesireable crowd. So maybe the site's decision is more about catering to the customer than drawing any kind of moral line in the sand? I can empathize with that. Without that nuance, there'd be some real nasty stuff on here--though I know I'm in a glass house for that last point. I have that same arbitrary line in the sand.

 

[Lifestyle66]

... but I do find LW hilarious .... I just love some of the comments ...best writing on lit.

I agree. That's part of my motivation for posting sharing stories to LW: It gives them a reason to write more than a shopping list for their next trip to a liquor store!

 

[SimonDoom]

I was directed to hentaied dot com by people on AH. I replicated many of the tropes, but made it consensual.

SPOILERS



Emily

I'm just saying that in this case "is" doesn't mean "is" in the real-world sense; it's just what a group of self-appointed experts on the subject say what "is" is in a purely fictional world. In the real world there is no tentacle sex, or if there is, I imagine it's unpleasant and risky for both humans and cephalopods.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm just saying that in this case "is" doesn't mean "is" in the real-world sense; it's just what a group of self-appointed experts on the subject say what "is" is in a purely fictional world. In the real world there is no tentacle sex, or if there is, I imagine it's unpleasant and risky for both humans and cephalopods.

I wasn’t referring to tentacle sex, but to tentacle porn. I’m entirely clear what tentacle porn is, it’s pretty unambiguous. They often have a human enforcer who prevents the women from leaving as the monster approaches.

This is getting a bit Clintonian.

FWIW, I wrote my tentacle sex based on consensual BDSM depth training / insertions.

Emily

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

You have ONE story in LW, "Thank You, Darling" "A pregnant wife has a special surprise for her dear husband," which you posted in November.

I read that (and included the link for others to enjoy), and we've had these exchanges over it in other forum threads.

That title and description was "trolling". There is no way that story of BDSM, humiliation, subservience, interracial breeding should be called "hardcore" cuckolding. That was sadistic torment, and I'm surprised that it has a rating of 2.43. The wife taking GREAT pleasure in forever abusing her husband? Anyone who enjoyed that story must have fun pulling the wings off flies, kicking dogs, or torturing crippled kids.

Given that you have plenty of stories posted to NC/R, you knew what you were doing posting that one to LW.

I don't want to relitigate this, but what the actual fuck are you talking about? You make it sound like I wrote a snuff story.

Thank You, Darling is a cuckolding story with a strong dose of femdom content. There's no where else to post such stories other than Fetish which is too broadly defined for my liking, and that's why it went into Loving Wives (although I suppose given the interracial aspect, it probably could have gone into IR originally). No, I did not post it in LW to troll the LW crowd, since I only had a passing knowledge of LW before then. As you noted yourself, I explained all of this in another thread.

Also, there's no BDSM in that story (unless you're talking about the chastity cage, and I'm not sure that's used in BDSM). But secondly, I'm curious why you think it isn't "hardcore" since that's the part you emphasized. How can it be overly extreme by your reckoning but also not make the grade to be described as "hardcore"? What would you consider to be "hardcore cuckolding"?

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

Are you serious ? You wrote it as a troll story .... you got exactly what you deserved.

For the hundredth time, I did NOT write that as a troll story. But I guess there's no way to convince some people.

Also, I wasn't offended or upset by the negative reactions I got. With hindsight (provided by NoTalentHack's essay on LW), your claim that I "got exactly what I deserved" is perhaps technically true, but since I'm not hurt by the reactions, the claim is meaningless.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I don't want to relitigate this, but what the actual fuck are you talking about? You make it sound like I wrote a snuff story.

Thank You, Darling is a cuckolding story with a strong dose of femdom content. There's no where else to post such stories other than Fetish which is too broadly defined for my liking, and that's why it went into Loving Wives (although I suppose given the interracial aspect, it probably could have gone into IR originally). No, I did not post it in LW to troll the LW crowd, since I only had a passing knowledge of LW before then. As you noted yourself, I explained all of this in another thread.

Also, there's no BDSM in that story (unless you're talking about the chastity cage, and I'm not sure that's used in BDSM). But secondly, I'm curious why you think it isn't "hardcore" since that's the part you emphasized. How can it be overly extreme by your reckoning but also not make the grade to be described as "hardcore"? What would you consider to be "hardcore cuckolding"?

With your logic, you must think a woman is not really raped in an NC/R story if she has an orgasm! Maybe you should write your next such story and title it "Her Fun Times in a Back Alley" with the description "She found her next husband among her ten suitors." Then post that to Romance and see the reaction.

Your title and description was INTENDED to draw in the unsuspecting and slap them with it.

EDIT: Are you now posting other stories as "White_Slave_Boy"? There's a new story posted yesterday in LW suspiciously similar to yours. It's "Pool Party" "His wife invites seven lovers to a pool party." It includes the cock cage, humiliation, etc.

 

[lovecraft68]

I suspect some of the most violent BTB stories posted there might be written by alt accounts of those decrying them. Just like that one in discussion as "hardcore" cuckolding? REALLY?

Without the sickest of shit posted there, how could they continue to claim the LW readers are a bunch of misogynists?

You're really out of touch with reality. You think people who say they hate certain types of stories-or a category in general are the ones writing them? In other words, this category and its readers are innocent victims of alt writers looking to make them look bad?

Wow, here's some tin foil.

 

[Lifestyle66]

You're really out of touch with reality. You think people who say they hate certain types of stories-or a category in general are the ones writing them? In other words, this category and its readers are innocent victims of alt writers looking to make them look bad?

Wow, here's some tin foil.

Several authors have admitted to using alt IDs to post stories they KNOW will troll the 1-bombers! They do that to protect their favored Red-H stories. So, save your indignation. You're probably one of them.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

With your logic, you must think a woman is not really raped in an NC/R story if she has an orgasm! Maybe you should write your next such story and title it "Her Fun Times in a Back Alley" with the description "She found her next husband among her ten suitors." Then post that to Romance and see the reaction.

Your title and description was INTENDED to draw in the unsuspecting and slap them with it.

EDIT: Are you now posting other stories as "White_Slave_Boy"? There's a new story posted yesterday in LW suspiciously similar to yours. It's "Pool Party" "His wife invites seven lovers to a pool party." It includes the cock cage, humiliation, etc.

You completely ignored my questions and points and continued with an unhinged rant about my LW story as if you were one of those aggrieved LW readers.

And no, I do NOT have a second account on Literotica, which means that I cannot be the one who posted "Pool Party". Although given the tone and content of your previous posts about my LW story, I fully expect you to lie to everyone about me being the one behind the "White_Slave_Boy" account - or any other cuckolding stories with similar themes.

Do not contact me again.

P.S. Anyone who's read my IR stories knows that I prefer White boys who take control.

 

[Lifestyle66]

You completely ignored my questions and points and continued with an unhinged rant about my LW story as if you were one of those aggrieved LW readers.

And no, I do NOT have a second account on Literotica, which means that I cannot be the one who posted "Pool Party". Although given the tone and content of your previous posts about my LW story, I fully expect you to lie to everyone about me being the one behind that other account - or any other cuckolding stories with similar themes.

Do not contact me again.

Then DO NOT bring up your "Oh, innocent me" act with any mention of the LW 1-bombers being unduly offended by your shit!

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I am genuinely tempted to take a dip into this category, as a reader at least, as I have never seen people being so entrenched and fired up about any other category, not even those that should objectively be "worse" such as non-con or incest.
Fascinating.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Incidentally I just published a thoroughly noncon incestuous femdom novella, The Three Mother Pact, in which two libertine MILFs and a third morally ambiguous one agree to mutually share their college age sons for fun and games. The scheme works splendidly --for the mothers, that is--till it is the third mother's turn to share her son, and she decides she cannot do it. Then all hell breaks loose. Incidentally, a key reason for me to write it was a freedom of navigation exercise: to write and publish noncon incest. The maledom version probably touches more nerves. But then as anybody who has written femdom knows, a woman on top running roughshod over her man really gets the woman hating incels riled up into a fit...

 

[Lifestyle66]

I am genuinely tempted to take a dip into this category, as a reader at least, as I have never seen people being so entrenched and fired up about any other category, not even those that should objectively be "worse" such as non-con or incest.
Fascinating.

I wrote a series of twelve 750-word stories last month with a range of couple types in extra-marital sex situations.

From my analysis of those stories, ratings, and comments, the "1-bombing" haters in LW react when someone is being emotionally abused (hence the reaction to that other story of EXTREME emotional abuse). My story "Pavlov's Dog - 750 Words" was just such an abusive relationship, but the husband still gets his reward.

A cheating husband is as bad as a cheating wife as evidenced with "The Teacher - 750 Words", although you just don't see those cheating husband stories as often. So, from my readings there, the audience is not a bunch of misogynist incels, but rather those coming from an abusive relationship. And the majority of them tend to HATE any extra-marital sex (even consensual sharing), with the "cheater" needing to be punished.

My stories have tried in various ways to explain other views of consensual sharing, separating love from sex, but to no avail. The closest I got was with "The Final Solution - 750 Words", where it's explained that the one husband is medically impotent and choosing to set his wife up with a boyfriend, so he can maintain some control over her. The fact that story rated relatively well is why I've come to realize the majority of LW readers HATE emotional abuse. There's no emotional abuse of any kind in that one.

My reaction in this thread to an extreme abuse story is due to the deceptive nature of the title and description by the author trolling the LW readers to say "See how they hate me."

 

[lustychimera]

Incidentally I just published a thoroughly noncon incestuous femdom novella, The Three Mother Pact, in which two libertine MILFs and a third morally ambiguous one agree to mutually share their college age sons for fun and games. The scheme works splendidly --for the mothers, that is--till it is the third mother's turn to share her son, and she decides she cannot do it. Then all hell breaks loose. Incidentally, a key reason for me to write it was a freedom of navigation exercise: to write and publish noncon incest. The maledom version probably touches more nerves. But then as anybody who has written femdom knows, a woman on top running roughshod over her man really gets the woman hating incels riled up into a fit...

I feel a bit of a kindred spirit here, lol.

I see you put it in non-con. I was always under the impression that incest was the trump category above all.

I just posted something similar, but now I'm thinking it should've gone in NC/R. Might try that with the second half. Though I never once expected a dark and thoroughly depraved story like that to do well, it would be nice to at least post it to the right audience, ha!

 

[John_Vandermeer]

I feel a bit of a kindred spirit here, lol.

I see you put it in non-con. I was always under the impression that incest was the trump category above all.

I just posted something similar, but now I'm thinking it should've gone in NC/R. Might try that with the second half. Though I never once expected a dark and thoroughly depraved story like that to do well, it would be nice to at least post it to the right audience, ha!

Looking at your tags it looks like it is a lezdom story. Probably pushing the tolerance of the I/T crowd. I have an (only half finished) half siblings femdom novella in I/T that taught me, outside of light hearted romcom type stuff, the I/T readership is not very kink tolerant. In that other story I have a rich college girl discover she has a poor illegitimate also college half brother, and Daddy is considering bringing the boy in. Princess is incensed and goes on a femme fatale seduce and destroy mission that so far in the story line has been pretty successful (boy is so far clueless of the true identity of the teasing and cruel princess). Lots of tease and denial, public humiliation, and other such things. By voting, comments and the like, it is clear much of I/T is somewhere between "horror!" and "I don't get it". As I said, romcom incest does well in I/T. Something like the Three Mother's Pact I could have put on I/T to troll I/T momcest, but it would do awfully there.

 

[lustychimera]

Looking at your tags it looks like it is a lezdom story. Probably pushing the tolerance of the I/T crowd. I have an (only half finished) half siblings femdom novella in I/T that taught me, outside of light hearted romcom type stuff, the I/T readership is not very kink tolerant. In that other story I have a rich college girl discover she has a poor illegitimate also college half brother, and Daddy is considering bringing the boy in. Princess is incensed and goes on a femme fatale seduce and destroy mission that so far in the story line has been pretty successful (boy is so far clueless of the true identity of the teasing and cruel princess). Lots of tease and denial, public humiliation, and other such things. By voting, comments and the like, it is clear much of I/T is somewhere between "horror!" and "I don't get it". As I said, romcom incest does well in I/T. Something like the Three Mother's Pact I could have put on I/T to troll I/T momcest, but it would do awfully there.

Ha! Well it's good info.

That's a great premise for the femme fatale story. It's a lot of fun to root for the villain when you're writing, but it's a heck of a handicap to center the sex around the kind of person who readers can relate to and loathe IRL--sounds in your case like the spoiled little princess who's off her rocker.

The other story i got was about a literally limp dick and spineless linebacker who gets jerked around and abused by everyone. Turns out, the I/T was not too keen on that, lol.

But I'll keep your points in mind for next time. Thanks!

I think further up this thread, there's a good point, too:

What will take some heat there is any form of non consent, I/T readers don't like seeing NC in a story, and my long time feeling on this is because we come here to read fun fantasy 18+ I/T stories, we know its abuse and a bad thing in real life, so don't want to have something that kills the fantasy and reminds people a lot of this in real life is NC.

I agree with that, and it comes out in my own stories. That's a major reason why it's illegal IRL. Even in the best of circumstances, if someone's in a family where I/T could happen, even in a consensual dynamic, in order to cultivate that dynamic in the first place, their home life would almost certainly have to have been abusive in some regard.

I don't think it's totally impossible for it not to have been-- long lost siblings, for example. But in a story about a close knit family, when I sit down to actually write the nuts and bolts of what I have pictured, it's like, yeah, this is actually really fucked.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Incidentally I just published a thoroughly noncon incestuous femdom novella, The Three Mother Pact, in which two libertine MILFs and a third morally ambiguous one agree to mutually share their college age sons for fun and games. The scheme works splendidly --for the mothers, that is--till it is the third mother's turn to share her son, and she decides she cannot do it. Then all hell breaks loose. Incidentally, a key reason for me to write it was a freedom of navigation exercise: to write and publish noncon incest. The maledom version probably touches more nerves. But then as anybody who has written femdom knows, a woman on top running roughshod over her man really gets the woman hating incels riled up into a fit...

Okay, so, let me see if I get this right... If I have a problem with a story where a woman is beaten into submission and then raped, that's A-Okay. But if I read this...

"He is bruised, cut. It would hurt him like a bitch." Breathed groggily the boy's mother.

"Then you better make sure it is over quickly. If you care to be a good mother that is. Otherwise enjoy him as long as you please."

...or...

So she simply answered "he is bruised and battered... it would be hard for him to heal..." But his other friend Victoria simply cut her off with.

"Then it is a good thing he has a ER trauma surgeon mother that will make sure he will heal properly." And Isabel found it hard to argue with that.

...or...

And in tears Phillip took his leave as fast as his state allowed him to and soon the three gorgeous women were alone.

...which are all quotes from the story you just linked, and have a problem with it, then I'm a "woman hating incel"?

Alrighty, then!

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Ha! Well it's good info.

That's a great premise for the femme fatale story. It's a lot of fun to root for the villain when you're writing, but it's a heck of a handicap to center the sex around the kind of person who readers can relate to and loathe IRL--sounds in your case like the spoiled little princess who's off her rocker.

The other story i got was about a literally limp dick and spineless linebacker who gets jerked around and abused by everyone. Turns out, the I/T was not too keen on that, lol.

But I'll keep your points in mind for next time. Thanks!

I think further up this thread, there's a good point, too:


I agree with that, and it comes out in my own stories. That's a major reason why it's illegal IRL. Even in the best of circumstances, if someone's in a family where I/T could happen, even in a consensual dynamic, in order to cultivate that dynamic in the first place, their home life would almost certainly have to have been abusive in some regard.

I don't think it's totally impossible for it not to have been-- long lost siblings, for example. But in a story about a close knit family, when I sit down to actually write the nuts and bolts of what I have pictured, it's like, yeah, this is actually really fucked.

Read your story. It is awesome. Left a comment, but I'll add some more I did not add there on purpose. You are definitely pushing the bounds of I/T tolerance. The D/s stuff for sure. Turning the little sister into the big sister's fuck doll. But I imagine the anal is probably what may set off the I/T crowd the most. The story is so good it will probably do well regardless, but if after a couple of chapters you feel not welcome in I/T, I would suggest Fetish as a natural home for it. Not sure about LS, other than I would not have seen it there (hetero guy an all that). It may be LS is incest intolerant, for example. But Fetish is probably the most multi-kink tolerant of the categories, and I am sure that readership will appreciate both the extensive exploration of the sensations, as well as the sub psychology of the little sister.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Okay, so, let me see if I get this right... If I have a problem with a story where a woman is beaten into submission and then raped, that's A-Okay. But if I read this...



...or...



...or...



...which are a quotes from the story you just linked, and have a problem with it, then I'm a "woman hating incel"?

Alrighty, then!

It's how they often twist stories to justify their "astute observations" of other people. (ie. "In my story, the husband's a cuckold who accepts it, so they must hate strong women!") They ignore the other things they wrote in the story to trigger people.

That's why I wrote so many 750-word stories last month, to test the reactions on the multitude of levels, trying to fine tune WHY they react.

I've come to the theory that the 1-bombers in LW are not hating women but reacting to the emotional abuse aspect of the stories.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Okay, so, let me see if I get this right... If I have a problem with a story where a woman is beaten into submission and then raped, that's A-Okay. But if I read this...



...or...



...or...



...which are all quotes from the story you just linked, and have a problem with it, then I'm a "woman hating incel"?

Alrighty, then!

No, it means you are reacting to it, as you are meant to. The woman hating incels usually resort to advocating femicide, even if they are just reacting too. NC/R type stories are often about twisting the metaphorical knife (a phrase often employed by NC/R maestro @oneagainst), and putting some salt in the wound for good measure. Not just physical but psychological too. Perhaps even more psychological. You know, the emotional abuse type stuff. Most of the readers, and writers, there must be masochists, sadists, or both. Which is why it is a dark land to which only those with the stomach usually venture.

 

[lustychimera]

Read your story. It is awesome. Left a comment, but I'll add some more I did not add there on purpose. You are definitely pushing the bounds of I/T tolerance. The D/s stuff for sure. Turning the little sister into the big sister's fuck doll. But I imagine the anal is probably what may set off the I/T crowd the most. The story is so good it will probably do well regardless, but if after a couple of chapters you feel not welcome in I/T, I would suggest Fetish as a natural home for it. Not sure about LS, other than I would not have seen it there (hetero guy an all that). It may be LS is incest intolerant, for example. But Fetish is probably the most multi-kink tolerant of the categories, and I am sure that readership will appreciate both the extensive exploration of the sensations, as well as the sub psychology of the little sister.

I really appreciate you taking the time! I'll definitely give yours a shot, too.

Yeah, this was far and above the tamest chapter. The next is much much worse, both in the acts and the non consent since other people are involved. It was kind of a vent in how far I could push things. So that's some great input. I'll drop the next one in Fetish tonight.

 

[oneagainst]

No, it means you are reacting to it, as you are meant to.

Agree.

NC/R type stories are often about twisting the metaphorical knife (a phrase often employed by NC/R maestro @oneagainst), and putting some salt in the wound for good measure. Not just physical but psychological too.

Not sure about maestro... but will say this: NC/R is a special place where one person's deepest fantasy is another's gut-wrenching horror. It's one of the few categories where the psychology of the thing is the main driver, which makes it a lot more interesting to write.

A lot of the stories in other categories can be quite simple in comparion: good old romps in the metaphorical hay, but in NC/R you need to venture under the skin.

 

[Lifestyle66]

...a special place where one person's deepest fantasy is another's gut-wrenching horror. ...

... like a horror movie where one person is chopping up another with a chainsaw.

One must wonder about those who have that as their deepest fantasy.