Thoughts on NoTalentHack's essay "Loving Loving Wives"

[AchtungNight]

Ink, you seem to be looking for reasons to punish, victimize, justify hatred. That’s totally the opposite of what I seek when I write, read, or discuss erotica. I think for my own ideological safety I will disengage from you and hope you never shame my work. To me, the purpose of life is to enjoy it if you can and do right by the people around you. I’m not out to punish anyone and honestly I think further dealing with you is a waste of my time. It wasn’t my choice to be in this world and I’m not deliberately seeking to inflict it on anyone. If asked to raise a child, I’d do it, but I’m not deliberately seeking to make it happen, make sure it’s mine, as you advocate. Far better to be a good person regardless and emphasize helping over superficial superiority. I’m also not into the whole humiliation thing. Just take your need to punish elsewhere or get rid of it and we’ll be ok. It’s not your problem unless you make it so.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Actually, you're at least partially wrong. A lot of blame here is on site design. I was a user for years, and up until 2 months ago, I wasn't even aware you can view story tags on first page (a small unlabeled icon), without having to read the FULL story and see the tags on last page near the voting stars. And I'm pretty computer literate and LIKE playing with UIs and settings. I bet VERY VERY few readers are aware they can get the story's tags before reading. If story tags were on page 1, before the story, and auto-expanded, I suspect the level of mutual dislikes in LW would decrease meaningfully.

It's actually pretty easy to test - take your story and post a first-paragraph disclaimer indicating any potentially contentious content. I know I nearly universally avoid downvoting reconciliation stories if the author honestly warned me in first paragraph that it would be reconciliation. I don't dislike them any less, but I find it ethically objectionable to downvote a story I had a free choice to avoid reading.

I HAVE added author's notes at the beginning of my stories warning that the story is about swingers. I have even deliberately ensured the title and description they see before clicking says FUN extra-mariatl sex.

Here's one:
"My Wife wants a Hall Pass" Descritption: "Former boyfriend asks her out ... Okay, but with conditions!"
"Author's Note: This is another stand-alone story with more adventures of my favorite swinger couple. You can expect some fun with extra-marital sex. ..."

And here are some comments:
"Seriously disgusting. Writer seems to live in a different world that has totally lost contact with reality!"

"Never understand sissy wimp loser husbands like this clown. Should get the hell away from this cheating skank slut wife or slap the bitch out of her until she understands the universe doesn't revolve around her. Story of two completely idiotic people. No love, nothing erotic, just pathetic. Nice ending would be a full dose of STD's for each of them."

"Never understand sissy wimp loser husbands like this clown. Should get the hell away from this cheating skank slut wife or slap the bitch out of her until she understands the universe doesn't revolve around her. Story of two completely idiotic people. No love, nothing erotic, just pathetic. Nice ending would be a full dose of STD's for each of them."

"Hell, where are the sheep and dogs? Seems like she has fucked about everybody and every thing else. May as well do some barn yard animals as well."



So, you're objectively wrong. People like you just open stories to hate.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Don't waste your time explaining yourself to them. They don't really care about what you have to say. They're doing to you exactly what they accuse the LW crowd of doing. For some, punching others online serves as a brief respite, a short breath before plunging back into the void.

Ahhh, but we're not leaving shitty comments on his stories or 1-bombing them. Inka has explained his reasoning for what constitutes a 1-bombable story.

This is the AUTHORS FORUM, where inka has ventured in to try "teaching" us what we should write. In this venue, we debate such topics to get ideas for other stories.

 

[inka2222]

I HAVE added author's notes at the beginning of my stories warning that the story is about swingers. I have even deliberately ensured the title and description they see before clicking says FUN extra-mariatl sex.

Here's one:
"My Wife wants a Hall Pass" Descritption: "Former boyfriend asks her out ... Okay, but with conditions!"
"Author's Note: This is another stand-alone story with more adventures of my favorite swinger couple. You can expect some fun with extra-marital sex. ..."
So, you're objectively wrong. People like you just open stories to hate.

OK, I'll bite.

In a space where a contentious LW story easily can gather couple hundred comments with probably at least 2:1 strongly against, your story had 26 comments (excluding yours and a dupe) I could count, with 41 favorites and 52K views. I just went through the effort of coding them by "positive"/"negative"/"neutral"/"meh", with "meh" ones criticizing reasonable points (inequality in rules for swinging, writing style). 11 comments were negative, only 8 of which were clearly "because swinging". In other words, less than half of comments. This definitely sounds like you cut down on negativity with your disclaimer, both in percentages AND in absolute values (# of comments typically tracks with how controversial the story is; unless it is a well known author or a REALLY amazing story). As an additional point, look at the views - those 11 swinging-criticism comments represent literally 0.02% (1/4700th) of all the readers. I didn't get to compare that to non-swinging content, but I bet it would also compare at least as favorably. Now, what you should really do, is to compare the same for one other swinging story of yours, without disclaimer, to see if there was an effect either way.

P.S. I didn't read the story, but "Hall pass" sounds to me more like "cheating-ish" story than true swinging (it implies clear inequality, and an exceptional circumstance). Don't know for sure if the story confirms that or not. it COULD very well be the reason for low rating, since that fact seemed to garner at least some negative NON-singing comments.

 

[Lifestyle66]

OK, I'll bite.

In a space where a contentious LW story easily can gather couple hundred comments with probably at least 2:1 strongly against, your story had 26 comments (excluding yours and a dupe) I could count, with 41 favorites and 52K views. I just went through the effort of coding them by "positive"/"negative"/"neutral"/"meh", with "meh" ones criticizing reasonable points (inequality in rules for swinging, writing style). 11 comments were negative, only 8 of which were clearly "because swinging". In other words, less than half of comments. This definitely sounds like you cut down on negativity with your disclaimer, both in percentages AND in absolute values (# of comments typically tracks with how controversial the story is; unless it is a well known author or a REALLY amazing story). As an additional point, look at the views - those 11 swinging-criticism comments represent literally 0.02% (1/4700th) of all the readers. I didn't get to compare that to non-swinging content, but I bet it would also compare at least as favorably. Now, what you should really do, is to compare the same for one other swinging story of yours, without disclaimer, to see if there was an effect either way.

P.S. I didn't read the story, but "Hall pass" sounds to me more like "cheating-ish" story than true swinging (it implies clear inequality, and an exceptional circumstance). Don't know for sure if the story confirms that or not. it COULD very well be the reason for low rating, since that fact seemed to garner at least some negative NON-singing comments.

My latest story is approved and will publish later tonight (about 1:30 am EST).

"Abuse Addict" "Emotional abuse can be addictive... and rewarding." It's about 7K words publishing in Loving Wives.
Tags: Loving Wives, cuckold, swingers, sharing, cheating, affair, group, voyeur husband,

It contains NO disclaimers about swingers (almost all of my other stories do, either by the title or an Author's Note).

I'll be interested in seeing how you react to this one. (Leave a comment, so I can tell it's you.)

 

[inka2222]

My latest story is approved and will publish later tonight (about 1:30 am EST).

"Abuse Addict" "Emotional abuse can be addictive... and rewarding." It's about 7K words publishing in Loving Wives.
Tags: Loving Wives, cuckold, swingers, sharing, cheating, affair, group, voyeur husband,

It contains NO disclaimers about swingers (almost all of my other stories do, either by the title or an Author's Note).

I'll be interested in seeing how you react to this one. (Leave a comment, so I can tell it's you.)

Duuude seriously? Emotional abuse? And you expect it to NOT bomb spectacularly? That's... adventurous.

I will try to remember to read, but I mostly read new stories from authors I already follow OR, stories very highly rated from top page, so I can't promise. I honestly predict now I'll hate it - emotional abuse is a hard moral limit for me in most stories (I suspect someone like NTH can masterfully convince me that one unique exceptional situation is OK, after writing a 5-star RAAC - but that'd require a massive lift of effort). I am simply unable to suspend disbelief that a person can love someone AND emotionally abuse them at the same time - REGARDLESS of the second person being turned on by it. It's like abusing someone's propensity to self-cut on S/m level; or extreme feeders and feedees. Just the opposite of love or care. Some kinks ARE morally hazardous, as much as I generally hate to kink shame.

P.S. I just read the "Hall Pass" . If I would have voted I would have given it 3.5, maybe 4 stars as a big stretch - I wasn't overly impressed with writing quality (sorry, but I'm spoiled by NTH's stories and similar high quality writers - you're not bad, just not as great as those). Story wise, I disliked the thing your story honestly highlighted (she is selfish and brings less to the relationship than he does clearly), but that's completely orthogonal to swinging (swinging doesn't lower my rating though - not my circus, but not a problem if honestly advertised).

 

[lc69hunter]

They do, in most cases. Where the problem arises, is where the stories have a moral aspect to them, as opposed to "pineapple pizza yes or no" preference; in very explicit terms, when the story events negatively impact a victim character. Which is why I seriously doubt anyone would ever downvote or emotionally react to an "anal" story, or two-adult-siblings incest story, or even swinging story (wanna bet that swinging stories with 100% consenting adults and no coercion have much lower level of disliking than cheating or cuck LW stories?). Your right to "fun" stops when your "fun" hurts other people. And propagandizing evil behavior such as cheating is hurtful. I suspect people would have been 1-bombing NC stories too if they were not separatd into a separate category, for the same reason. Yes they are "fun"/"hot". But they are so at the expense of hurting someone.

Huh??? I can not believe I just read what I read.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I really can't stress this enough: no one in the stories is real. All the things that happen are made up. Yes, I want emotional responses but don't confuse what I write as a true story. No real person is killed, kicked in his balls, has her tits slapped, or their ass invaded other than in a writer's imagination. You, like many readers, seem to think that people in lit stories are real and what happens actually happened. Cheating happens in the real world, and there are consequences. When fictional Mary Richards discovered her new boyfriend was a sleaze, he didn't exist, so Mary Tyler Moore didn't give a shit.

They do, in most cases. Where the problem arises, is where the stories have a moral aspect to them, as opposed to "pineapple pizza yes or no" preference; in very explicit terms, when the story events negatively impact a victim character. Which is why I seriously doubt anyone would ever downvote or emotionally react to an "anal" story, or two-adult-siblings incest story, or even swinging story (wanna bet that swinging stories with 100% consenting adults and no coercion have much lower level of disliking than cheating or cuck LW stories?). Your right to "fun" stops when your "fun" hurts other people. And propagandizing evil behavior such as cheating is hurtful. I suspect people would have been 1-bombing NC stories too if they were not separatd into a separate category, for the same reason. Yes they are "fun"/"hot". But they are so at the expense of hurting someone.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Duuude seriously? Emotional abuse? And you expect it to NOT bomb spectacularly? That's... adventurous.

I will try to remember to read, but I mostly read new stories from authors I already follow OR, stories very highly rated from top page, so I can't promise. I honestly predict now I'll hate it - emotional abuse is a hard moral limit for me in most stories (I suspect someone like NTH can masterfully convince me that one unique exceptional situation is OK, after writing a 5-star RAAC - but that'd require a massive lift of effort). I am simply unable to suspend disbelief that a person can love someone AND emotionally abuse them at the same time - REGARDLESS of the second person being turned on by it. It's like abusing someone's propensity to self-cut on S/m level; or extreme feeders and feedees. Just the opposite of love or care. Some kinks ARE morally hazardous, as much as I generally hate to kink shame.

P.S. I just read the "Hall Pass" . If I would have voted I would have given it 3.5, maybe 4 stars as a big stretch - I wasn't overly impressed with writing quality (sorry, but I'm spoiled by NTH's stories and similar high quality writers - you're not bad, just not as great as those). Story wise, I disliked the thing your story honestly highlighted (she is selfish and brings less to the relationship than he does clearly), but that's completely orthogonal to swinging (swinging doesn't lower my rating though - not my circus, but not a problem if honestly advertised).

Yes, I admit to being a shitty writer, ...but I'm learning.

I think many readers read INTO stories and thus are disappointed with the outcomes when the story doesn't flow in the direction they want or assume. I don't see how you found the MFC in "Hall Pass" as selfish, unless you read into it.

Although the title said, "Wife wants a hall pass", you read into it. She explained the situation and why she didn't think it would be right to go to dinner with her old BF (he'd want to sleep with her.) Husband said go for it, but he'd want a hall pass as well. He gave her conditions she found unacceptable (his own hall pass). Then he gave her another option, and she followed his rules. The other guy found that unacceptable, so husband gave them option 3, and they all had fun.

She's not being selfish when she honestly told him she didn't want him to have a hall pass. Men do this all the time by watching porn and yet expecting their wife to be monogamous, and being jealous if their wife then comments on some "hot looking guy".

So, IF you read "Abuse Addict", try not to read into it or make assumptions which aren't there. The story is exactly the 7,016 words I submitted. But many of the readers will throw their own shade on it as they make assumptions. And you've already started with:

I am simply unable to suspend disbelief that a person can love someone AND emotionally abuse them at the same time - REGARDLESS of the second person being turned on by it.

Don't go into it with assumptions of love and enjoying abuse. But you can go into it thinking of addictions. EDIT: And addictions can take many forms.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Sure. I'm 100% with you on that. If you bother reading what I wrote, I EXPLICITLY said, that the goal is access to kids for father, by ANY means - and yes legal one is preferrable (as it is less risky if for no other reason). The case where I feel violence is warranted is very specifically the last resort scenario where nothing else worked; for example where the wife (usually fraudulently, via false abuse reports, at least in typical LW story, but likely in real life too) forces her SOLE custody - with no or minimal access - on unwilling father who did nothing wrong in reality; because in modern US family court system men are guilty until proven innocent. Or less nefariously, uses the fact that the father can't even afford a legal representation while her rich BF can pay for fancy lawyers - we both know US courts require money to succeed in many cases.

Sure. What if we keep this example and change one factor: the abuse claims made by the adulterous ex-wife are all 100% true with evidence to verify that they are. What else does that change for you and your morals? Should the father still have joint custody? Is the mother still breaking significant moral rules in your view if she isn't manipulating the children, but rather perceives herself to be protecting them, by keeping them away from their dad while they're still in their minority years?

 

[madelinemasoch]

Of being harassed criticized and downvoted by man-hating pro-cheating crowd.

Let me just quote you here:

No proof

You have literally no proof of that because neither one of us knows who the first BTB author was or if he got significant backlash or vitriol from publishing it.

I bet you if you poll 10000 random LE readers, a vast majority who don't have direct experience with LW category would get the wrong impression and NOT get the joke. I know I didn't even KNOW that swinging and such were in scope for LW until couple of years after starting to read, because I was following specific authors I liked who don't write swinging stories.

I doubt that. It's right in the category description on the site page.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the first actual "cheating drama" not simply far preceded the first BTB, but actually masqueraded as a swinging or supposed-voluntary-cuck story; except that one of the participants was a spouse coerced into it by threat of divorce and losing kids. Which may sounds "sexy" to some people I guess - but you can say the same about NC stories. I have my own view of such people's moral compass. Regadless, THAT story was the first "cheating drama" story. It just snuck in.

Didn't know about that. Neither here nor there to be honest.

I strongly suspect that the decisions were largely shaped by available categories, hence me blaming LE management. Things in life evolve to respond to conditions and incentives.

I guess the fact that there isn't a category that literally says "Cuckold" is partially to blame, but you can't discount the fact that readers only read what authors write, and authors sometimes cater their writing to preexisting genre conditions.

 

[AchtungNight]

I honestly would prefer not to write in Loving Wives again. It’s too full of nonsense about cuckolding and punishment being required. Whatever happened to just enjoying sex?

 

[madelinemasoch]

It's actually pretty easy to test - take your story and post a first-paragraph disclaimer indicating any potentially contentious content. I know I nearly universally avoid downvoting reconciliation stories if the author honestly warned me in first paragraph that it would be reconciliation. I don't dislike them any less, but I find it ethically objectionable to downvote a story I had a free choice to avoid reading.

You have a free choice to avoid reading anything. What you want is a spoiler. That probably isn't gonna happen for most writers on the site.

 

[MillieDynamite]

@inka2222 ... For most women, cheating has causes beyond wanting to cause hurt. Something fundamentally wrong in a relationship for a normal woman to seek out comfort from someone other than her husband. While men often cheat for no other reason than a desire to bed as many women as possible. You act as if these husbands are totally blameless, and to hear them tell their story, they may sound as if they are. I've never seen but a few women so vindictive as to keep a father from his children. You're on a high horse and throwing out exceptions to the commonplace. Give us facts. Give us thoughtful research to show what your spouting happens. And give us the flip side of this, and show the rich bastards that have brutalized their families using their money to destroy their ex-wives' lives. You're traveling down a long and winding road of oft-spoken tales that have nothing in the real world you can show.

Sight court cases, and actual case studies, give us the percentages of these occurrences.

How many women leave husbands who have beaten them half to death? How many women have fought for custody to remove children from dangerous homes? Give us both sides of this American Court Nightmare you are telling. It sounds like the old misogynistic tripe we have seen on this forum before to me. We hear this, but not one of you has ever given us a study. Your casting aspersions on women absent supporting evidence.

 

[madelinemasoch]

So, you're objectively wrong. People like you just open stories to hate.

I mean, he just admitted that. IDK if it's Boycott Madeline Season on the lit forums or if I'm just the professional thread-killer, but here we go:

I WILL 1-bomb any forced cuckolding or dehumanization or explicitly racist story (with hate for ANY race), on principle, without reading, and without caring who the author is.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I am simply unable to suspend disbelief that a person can love someone AND emotionally abuse them at the same time - REGARDLESS of the second person being turned on by it

It's not about "suspension of disbelief" it's about LEARNING something NEW about how OTHER PEOPLE do things. Your way of reading is all wrong if you expect to expand your own worldview or even have an enjoyable experience beyond getting your twelve-thousand-year-old rocks off.

OOPS! I went and castrated the mesolithic period, as well. I'll keep its balls in a jar beside Robin's.

Duuude seriously? Emotional abuse? And you expect it to NOT bomb spectacularly? That's... adventurous.

Lifestyle writes stories in LW in order to be bombed. He thrives off negative engagement there (not a problem in my eyes, I've mostly done the same in DL). WE'RE WRITERS. We're not like you. Our motivations are not so black and white.

 

[TheRedChamber]

For somewhat contrived example, imagine a woman had her husband deliberately replace her eggs (using some fictional technology) with his mistress's eggs, and had her raise mistress's babies. Do you feel he didn't commit any major offense, denying her the right to have her own kids?

Actually
- man discovers 'his' child is actually his wife's lover's.
- man divorces wife. Wife marries lover.
- man gets new girlfriend
- man sneaks (well more than sneaks) into a fertility clinic and replaces fertilized eggs with his and girl-friends'
- man lets them raise that child until the exact day hour minute and second that he found out and then goes 'ta-da'.

Sounds like an ideal Hammaburian BTB story. I mean, absolutely morally bankrupt and horrendous from the point of view of the children, but still...

Anyway, I don't write LW.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Actually
- man discovers 'his' child is actually his wife's lover's.
- man divorces wife. Wife marries lover.
- man gets new girlfriend
- man sneaks (well more than sneaks) into a fertility clinic and replaces fertilized eggs with his and girl-friends'
- man lets them raise that child until the exact day hour minute and second that he found out and then goes 'ta-da'.

Sounds like an ideal Hammaburian BTB story. I mean, absolutely morally bankrupt and horrendous from the point of view of the children, but still...

Anyway, I don't write LW.

Yoink!

 

[Lifestyle66]

Lifestyle writes stories in LW in order to be bombed. He thrives off negative engagement there (not a problem in my eyes, I've mostly done the same in DL). WE'RE WRITERS. We're not like you. Our motivations are not so black and white.

Well.... I wouldn't say I THRIVE on negative engagement there. But I don't focus on ever even trying to achieve a Red-H.

As I said before, I'm a shitty writer, ... and I'm just writing what I like and can imagine.

But as I've realized, many readers (even experienced authors) read other stories with their own prejudices and biases, and they read into the story with their own expectations. There are very few people who can read a story and just take it in as another life's experience. They frame it with their own life experiences as right or wrong.

Inka read my story about the "Hall Pass" and found the wife to be selfish. That's probably due to the wife getting fucked by another guy (old boyfriend). But it was all within the husband's rules and consensual. She even started that whole adventure by saying it was inappropriate, since she was married! But inka finds any wife having sex with another guy to be offensive and immoral! So, he "read into" the story with his own assumptions. He created his own background story of the altruistic husband and the selfish wife!

I've had this same discussion with other authors in other threads, where they read into the motives of a short story, finding racism, sexism, mysogyny, etc in almost everything they read as "undercurrents". The argument is "BUT he/she felt that way/did that, probably because of what someone/she/he did to them in the past!" [Not in MY story! That's in your head.]

It's a story!... Exactly and ONLY as I've written it with the words I used! Often, those undercurrents are the reader's own bias coming to the surface.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Yoink!

Yoink away if you can make it work

 

[madelinemasoch]

I haven't read your stories but do they involve either humiliation, or less-than-willing participants, or generally portraying male subs as sub-human and extreme cruelty inflicted on them; or especially cuckolding?

Check, check, check, and check.

If so, the problem isn't "BDSM" or "LW", it's that people find things that you like morally objectionable, and victimizing males.

No. You must be misinformed. This is not a church, sir, this is a website with erotic stories. This section of the website is Author's Hangout, where the writers talk with each other and occasionally guests who barge in like yourself. Nothing I "like" is in question here, only the content of stories I've published. The category in which said stories were published (the site has categories! We're learning a lot today, aren't we, grandpa?) is relevant to how that content is received. The readership of these categories was the subject of the discussion you're quoting from.

For similar reception, most normal modern females would react badly to predominantly-female-victim NC stories of the violent variety (as opposed to erotic ones where the damsel ends up enjoying herself and the story is more of a bodice-ripper or CNC than true NC)

I hope so, for different reasons, but I doubt that. If you've read my stories (which you haven't, no harm done) you'd know that this kind of mAlEs-vs-fEmAlEs gender lens does not apply, and that a more nuanced view of gender itself is expressed both by the characters themselves and by the very way the stories are written. Therefore, it doesn't make any sense to say "flip the genders!" to make some kind of comparison, because that's never going to happen in the world in which MY stories (in particular) take place.

You haven't presented any evidence that you are NOT saying that.

The evidence that I am NOT saying that white mAlEs (to use your sophisticated verbáge) are subhuman is in the stories which you haven't read. The characters don't use the term "subhuman." Since your conception of human rights is loftier than even your average British imperialist's, they might be treated by other characters in a way that you view as "less than human" (e.g., not having procreative sex, I guess?) but in no way are they actually presenting a view (which I do not even possess) that white MaLeS are subhuman.

You're the author, you literally have 100% choice of what/how to write. If you didn't think so, you would either not portray them as such, OR portray your characters who treat them as such, as negative ones.

Thanks for acknowledging my own poetic license, but you're not on the board, because there isn't one. It comes with a birth certificate. From my own point of view, my submissive characters are not portrayed as subhuman, just as less than men as in not sexually equipped to fulfill the male sexual role. Any reading of their degradation beyond/below this is a heresy, especially when this realization allows so many of them to begin to live happier lives as women. There is a marked difference between feminization and dehumanization. Anti-trans bigots like yourself wouldn't know! (and for anybody out there who enjoys the mystery around this aspect of my writings, please do forget I just said that! Forgive others for not being as sharp as yourselves, my darlings)

Now, onto this little gem...

If your story's hero is a literal rapist and story revolves around rape, you DO sound like rape supporter.

Granddad, we're not on Tumblr in 2014! What's all this about "supporters" of this and that? We're writers on Literotica, not dignitaries in a political party. Even in the case if someone did write that story, they're not a rape supporter, they're exploring what it means to be a rapist and probably for the opposite reasons. Plus, WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT WE SUPPORT WHEN WE'RE JUST TRYING TO WRITE OUR STORIES?!?!?!?! I diagnose you with a severe case of character-author confusion.

I feel like I'm on the bad side of X right now. But still, it gets so, so much worse...

The fact that you think "certain" readers object to it, instead of most normal people, says a lot more about you than the readers.

"Certain" readers object to it BECAUSE THEY DO. It's literally CERTAIN readers in the very very very tiny numbers (remind you of someone? Don't look down!) who leave negative comments on my stories. The vast vast vast majority of them move on without saying a peep!

As your average scores attest to.

My average scores are literally average they're fine. It hovers around the 4.0 margin. My average is literally a 3.88.

Mind you, the low outlier at 2.17 is my sole LW submission. Nice try at an insult, though. Not sure why that's allowed. Oh, wait, I'm me, and Laurel doesn't give a fuck.

Next question.

if everyone is so racist, why are romantic IR stories with black male/white female mostly pulling AT LEAST 4 stars and better ones easily top 4.5 stars?

I don't know and I kinda don't care. I didn't claim everyone is racist. I think most categories (save perhaps for LW because there's so many different conventions in one category, as you so ineloquently expressed in the mistaken garbled form of "cAteGoRy doEsnT mAtTeR tO sCoReS") get high scores when the genre conventions are all affirmed. Racist people probably avoid the IR category like the plague. Even I don't read enough in it to presume otherwise.

Why are most of BlackRand's stories of any category (100% of which feature extremely NOT submissive black women, most of them explicit kick-ass Alpha types) rated at close to 5 stars?

Because they've been on the website for 8 years, posted 100 stories (not kidding), and amassed 7,000~ followers before I even came on the site for the first time. And amassing followers on Literotica is an uphill battle for anyone. Newsflash, again, this isn't X/Twitter. This is the most dishonest comparison I have ever seen on the forums. Find someone with 100~ followers and about 30 stories and then compare our ratings. You're framing this comparison as if it has anything whatsoever to do with the content of either of our stories when it's really about the fact that BlackRand has been on the site four times longer than me, has thrice as many stories total as I do, and 7,000 freaking followers. His stories are rated higher because he has a bigger audience and more time to build it.

Must be that all the supposed "racists" ONLY read your stories, since you're such a central author on the site.

Never claimed to be one and I know I'm on the fringe. See above.

Or MAYBE, the objections are to you being anti-white dehumanizing man hater, and not to the stories having a black man?

Do you have even a smidgen of knowledge on human psychology?

If so, do tell me if this guy sounds like he's butthurt about black men:

It's not that hard to understand that the only reason someone would say something as ridiculous as "there are no big black cocks" is because he's butthurt that they do, in fact, exist!

 

[madelinemasoch]

Double bullshit. Look at ratings of any non-man-hating femdom stories.

This is a fake, completely artificial line that YOU'VE drawn in the sand. I have no idea what... people (using the term loosely!!) like yourself think "man-hating" is constituted by.

(as easy search, look for sensual femdom)

I did the search. It's a 50/50 even split on the ratings whether they're above 4.0 or not. Wrong again, gramps.

Stop blaming the readers for what you delusionally imagine in their brains

I don't have to imagine anything in their brains. THEY do that to ME and so did you, without even having read me, earlier in this very response! It's called character-author confusion, there's a thread about it, I wrote it, go read it. My haters already told me what they think and I haven't misrepresented them whatsoever.

Approach this scientifically and look at stories featuring similar things to yours which you THINK people object to, but without the hateful angles.

There's no rating discrepancy between my stories and those ones unless you take the most extremely low examples from my own catalogue, and there's not a significant enough content difference between them for that to make a difference. I'll use one of my favorites as an example: Like A Horse and Carriage by NullPsyche. It's at a 3.97.

cuckoldry has a major major darkside context

That's why I like it.

For a female equivalent, imagine a scifi story where a woman is forced to remove all her eggs, implanted with a "better" woman's eggs instead, and forced to carry and birth and care for that other woman's babies, while not having her own. Still think it's "hot"?

Female equivalents don't factor in to my own erotic universe, as I have already explained above. This also literally, physically, scientifically, bIolOgIcAlLy isn't equivalent to what happens in cuckoldry. At all.

But I WILL 1-bomb any forced cuckolding or dehumanization or explicitly racist story (with hate for ANY race), on principle, without reading, and without caring who the author is.

Ban this guy from the website.
He's scarcely contributing anything at all except vitriol and annoyance.

Chances are, your problems are a combo of "all your stories are of that type" so you get to be a target of both people who dislike the TYPE, as well as occasional serial downvoter, in your case seemingly motivated by reasonable dislike.

There is nothing remotely reasonable about 1-bombing a story that you didn't even read.

Your man hating flag is showing, lady (using the term loosely).

Again, ban him. But you don't have to if you let me disrespect him back (see above! Reread it over and over again! Never forget the Grande Abuser, Madeline Masoch, tortured his poor soul as well!)

The assertion that a man would undergo emotional torture (and in stories like yours, usually physical) just because you think your looks make you better than everyone else is reprehensible to the extreme.

I didn't say I think my looks make me better than everyone else, I said her looks make her better than anyone else, as in, THE ONE I'M SUBMITTING TO! You know, like my characters do? Anyways, I'll just let this quote from Gauntlet 2 answer you:

If this was torture, I was more than happy to be a victim.

The domme calls it torture in the story before it happens, but as it's happening, the sub is just satisfied and essentially says it's not torture. Almost like my stories really ARE more nuanced than my reputation abides.

Because most mentally sane men wouldn't LIKE this.

My stories are not about most mentally sane men.

Men aren't wired that way, naturally. So what's realistically keeping him there is either some form of coercion (even if it is as "simple" as emotional blackmail of the "if you love me you will do this thing you hate"); or literal blackmail (if he objects he loses his family in divorce), or he's mentally ill. Yes, there probably is a tiny minority of men who actually genuinely seek out such treatment. But they are as mentally unwell as self-cutters.

Failure of imagination + pathologization of my eroticism. People like this are why I said "portraying loves once thought impossible" in my bio, BTW. He's getting more out of me than a tooth-puller tonight. Sorry, guys.

How would a reasonable person react to the situation where a mentally disturbed self-cutter woman is under control of supposed "Dom" who encourages her to self-cut because it's fun, he can and she has an unhealthy emotional attachment to him? That's right, we would label him as an asshole abuser and assert she needs mental health help, send her to an abused women's shelter etc... We would NOT make him out to be a delightful protagonist who is worthy of admiration because he's soooo good looking.

You're just... not equipped to read me, dude. I'm sorry, it's just so over for you. Don't try it.

And I dunno who "we" is but I wouldn't like to meet them.

I have actually done something like this in a stage play script. That's never seeing the light of day on this website.

I'm tempted to read the story, but given what you posted so far, I suspect the "explanation" would be just as man-hating as the preceding reasoning, so not worth my time.

Nothing I said imposes hatred upon men in general or any individual man, real or imagined, at all. Instead of being an asshole, you could have just read the excerpt I posted, but no, you'd rather pass judgment with an entirely imaginary moral authority which you do not possess.

The fact that you blame "ignorance" and "you don't understand me" on the audience instead of yourself as a writer, is telling.

You are literally ignorant of the content of my stories because you haven't read any of them. That's what ignorance means.

Not that I think you'd have anything close to an accurate reading of it if you did.

There's a big difference between "enjoy the pain" and "forced to endure the pain because you're emotionally attached to the sadist, and coerced at worst".

Cards on the table: I don't give a fuck about your cringe BDSM club ethical code of conduct. The second thing is both hotter and more interesting subject matter than the first. Because it's more real! My life didn't play out in a BDSM club with consent standards. It just happened.

I'd rather you feel a little sad about that fact than call my fictional wife an abuser, but I digress, I suppose!

Also, there's a big difference between physical pain (which normal healthy people DO and CAN enjoy for valid biochemical and brainy reasons)

Look, buddy, I don't need a biochemical or "brainy" (nice scientific term btw) reason to do anything. I do not give a fuck if I or any one of my characters don't make sense to you. You're not even one of my readers. You are a narrow-minded individual with little ability to expand your own horizons, as evidenced by what you've said here today.

extreme physical torture; and emotional torture (which usually requires mental health issues to "enjoy", and usually it's not enjoyment but unhealthy dependency, from self-hating or depressed individual).

These people are more interesting than "most mentally sane men." That's why I write about them instead.

As someone who literally had to save subs with mental health issues by ordering them into therapy, I VERY CLEARLY know the difference.

Well aren't you all big and bad? Newsflash: you didn't "sAvE" anybody, you handed them over to the heavily armed state you pretend to hate so much.

The difference between a decent person and an awful abuser like your "protagonist" is just that.

If Eleanor sent Madeline to therapy, Madeline would consider that abuse, and every time she slaps her, she takes it as a compliment.

A decent person's FIRST care and concern is well being of their sub, including mental health. NOT abusing their emotional and mental issues to satisfy my own cruelty.

...and I'll be exploring that in Eleanor Winter Part II.



I hope our audience of 0 has enjoyed the show tonight.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Her stories are popular because she writes about topics that most people want to read, and she does so enjoyably. Her early stories received high scores before she gained any followers.

Your brain is smoother than my laptop screen.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Your right to "fun" stops when your "fun" hurts other people. And propagandizing evil behavior such as cheating is hurtful.

It's a fiction porn site. No one is getting hurt here.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Stop blaming the readers for what you delusionally imagine in their brains,

And I might suggest that you should stop blaming amateur porn smut authors for your own judgments. You'll be happier in life.