just curious : gratification of being a dom

[Endless_Night]

< I totally didn't register that part. I would have to retract my statement in that sense because I am extremely sensitive to any type of authoritative tone, even when there is no relationship involved. There have been times where I've been in situations where I could sense a dominant man, and he took an authoritative tone, and I had to leave the room because I began having a reaction to it. Endless Night, can you attest to anything like this? >

Well, I can certainly agree to having a reaction when a dominant man takes an authoritative tone. And I suppose you could say it's instinctive.

My heels dig in, blood rushes to my head, rage bubbles up in my throat, and my mouth opens. I'll let you imagine what comes out.

I really, really, really dislike being told what to do, at least when it come from a man in a peremptory tone. Whew! Sets me off like a firecracker on New Years. I know I've mentioned somewhere that I'm trying to encourage my SO into dominating me sexually. You can imagine the difficulties!!! It's very hard for me to submit, which is why a little force is so helpful.

From what you've posted I'd have to say you and I are very different types of submissives.

 

[KoPilot]

It's hard for me, to an extent, when I know that women like myself who lean toward obedience are felt to be less fun, less interesting, predictable, even a step above doormat, so to speak (I know that has not been said here) but those are the things that jump out at my conscience when reading this thread. I know with the right man, he would consider me none of those things.

Its okay. It doesn't bother me too bad. It's a bit of a "pang", but I'm really sensitive, so I take that into consideration and just use it to further myself toward self acceptance.

Everyone is different. It's what makes us who we are. I don't see it as brat hate, really, just difference in preferences. *hug*

It's not just this thread. Every time the word "brat" comes up anywhere on this board there's this immediate and visceral "ew, get them away from me" thing. For some reason everyone here seems to 1. be going by the dictionary defition of brat rather than the BDSM one, and 2. there's this weird understated assumption that brats are secretly everywhere and trying to sabotage everyone's scenes.

Brats are a way tiny minority here and actually most doms on this board prefer outright obedience more than anything so your worries are pretty unfounded tbh.

 

[StrayKat]

2. there's this weird understated assumption that brats are secretly everywhere and trying to sabotage everyone's scenes.

I never noticed that. I never even noticed much talk about brats apart from this thread.
Maybe you are just overly sensitive about the subject.

 

[KoPilot]

I never noticed that. I never even noticed much talk about brats apart from this thread.
Maybe you are just overly sensitive about the subject.

Maybe I just notice things that are relevant to me.

 

[All_4_Love]

Maybe I just notice things that are relevant to me.

Yes, it's what we do. We are human beings made up of many thoughts, feelings, and a lot of projections!

I'm going to give you a different perspective here...

We are all sensitive to things that touch on our believed shortcomings, especially in a forum such as this one, or just in the world of kink itself. There are so many opinions and labels and "expertise" that gets thrown around. It's no wonder we feel doubt. That's why I mentioned my conscience earlier because when we doubt ourselves, then we will perceive criticism where there may not even be any.

I have just started this journey, and there has already been a dominant man (or two) that has made me doubt myself, my submission, the type of woman I am. It's tough, but we have to be tougher, and stand strong in our identities of who we are.

For example, a Dom asked me not too long ago to compare myself in a sexual context to a vanilla lover. After I reflected on that, I began to take it personally. It was like a "just how kinky are you" test.

Just because I'm very submissive in my every day life doesn't mean I'm not kinky. Maybe in his eyes. But I have to deflect his opinion of me because it doesn't match the one I have of myself.

How would he know how kinky I was? As far as I'm concerned, if you have a woman that wants to trust you so much that she does anything and everything that you tell her to do, that's pretty kinky! She's just not "directing" the scene. Not everyone sees it that way. To some, I'm mindless. I'm no fun. I'm not kinky enough.

I perceive criticism because I have doubts. I don't even know how kinky I am. I've never done anything kinky. I'm just vanilla.

You see what I mean? How our minds can turn anything into self doubt if we let it? Twist things around until we believe what we perceive as our own truth? Or someone else's criticism? It's crazy! It's one of the many reasons why I meditate!

We have to do our best to deflect it. You're perfect the way you are. I'm perfect the way that I am. To the right person, you would be a perfect lover no matter how much of a "brat" you are. To the right person, I will be the perfect lover, too, no matter how "mindless and obedient" I am.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Or, alternatively, we have to challenge someone's vociferous scorn of something that impacts our identity because they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

I don't like the notion of someone bratting on me because I don't feel competent to handle the challenge, and I don't mind saying so. I'm too easy to flip-- in fact the idea gives me the shivers

I love a woman who will climb on top of me, sit on my strapon, run her long fingernails scary-close to my pussy and warn me that I'd better make her happy, Daddy, because baby has claws.

 

[All_4_Love]

Or, alternatively, we have to challenge someone's vociferous scorn of something that impacts our identity because they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Here's a perfect example of projection. I read this and immediately edited my post above because I keep referring to these relationships as man/woman.

Perceived criticism? Maybe. Well deserved? Absolutely.

I'm getting better

 

[Stella_Omega]

Here's a perfect example of projection. I read this and immediately edited my post above because I keep referring to these relationships as man/woman.

Perceived criticism? Maybe. Well deserved? Absolutely.

I'm getting better

Ah, no, oddly enough i wasn't thinking about gender-- I meant the idea that the scornful criticism of brattiness might not give rise to feelings of defensiveness out of insecurity, but merely of indignation on account of people who don't have anything but a jerking knee. NOT meaning you, I hasten to add.

 

[DesEsseintes]

Once more, this thread keeps drawing me back. Some fascinating perspectives, and I am learning a great deal. On the 'brat' thing, I can quite see how those for whom this is a favourite kink can feel 'got at'. That was not my intention in saying that I do not understand it - quite the opposite. I'm curious about everything, and because it hasn't been something in which I've been interested I wanted to know what it was about it that worked for some people. It wasn't intended to be a negative judgement.

I wonder if it is partly because it is a complex and grey area? I know that I have had a tendency all my life to simplify things, which I'm sure is not uncommon. I'm aware of it now, and try to minimise it, but part of my reaction to something like a brat is, I confess, a confusion. On its simplest level, an immediate reaction of 'but aren't you supposed to be submissive? Then why are you acting like that?' Now I know it's more complicated than that. I know that humans are absurdly complex, and sexuality one of the most complex things about them. But I can't help that fleeting, initial, somewhat autistic "CATEGORY ERROR" reaction coming up in my head when I hear of someone identifying as submissive who enjoys speaking/acting rudely to their Dom(me). That is certainly my fault, and no-one else's.

In a similar way, I know that I could never submit - or at least, that if I were literally forced to, it could only make me extremely unhappy. Now I think Dom(me)s who can submit, very occasionally, may well be better - more empathetic, for one thing, and with a greater perspective. So I'm not remotely condemning it when I say that it's not something that would work for me. I'm intrigued, again, as with brattishness, to understand how that switch between modes of behaviour comes on and off. My own attitudes and behaviour are tediously monolithic, you see...

 

[StrayKat]

Ah, no, oddly enough i wasn't thinking about gender-- I meant the idea that the scornful criticism of brattiness might not give rise to feelings of defensiveness out of insecurity, but merely of indignation on account of people who don't have anything but a jerking knee. NOT meaning you, I hasten to add.

People may have the jerking knee reactions not because they know nothing about what they talk about, but because they may have been forced too many times in life to deal with certain kinds of <whatever> they dislike.
It is all nice and dandy when we discuss on the internet forums and can give theories and experiences in impersonal mood.
But just as some people are sensitive to negative reactions about their particular flavor, some people may be sensitive to that flavor because it was showed down their throat whether they liked it or not.

In a perfect world we would all give our opinions here in a perfect respectful way and none would ever feel offended or defensive. Maybe some of you managed to reach that kind of perfection, I admit I havent yet. And when I start feeling impersonal about things I write, I will stop writing them.

But I told someone who deserves my respect I wont be getting involved in this particular discussion anymore so I am out.

 

[StrayKat]

Oh and just a thought - Stella, maybe you should write an essay about brats in BDSM dynamics? Because I think many people see that word in general, spoiled child kind of sense, still.

 

[sereneone4u]

Serene One,

The Anais Nin quote in your signature? Absolutely breathtaking! I have never read that one before.

Hello and thank you.

This is the full quote:

When does real love begin?

At first it was a fire, eclipses, short circuits, lightning and fireworks; the incense, hammocks, drugs, wines, perfumes; then spasm and honey, fever, fatigue, warmth, currents of liquid fire, feast and orgies; then dreams, visions, candlelight, flowers, pictures; then images out of the past, fairy tales, stories, then pages out of a book, a poem; then laughter, then chastity.

At what moment does the knife wound sink so deep that the flesh begins to weep with love?

At first power, power, then the wound, and love, and love and fears, and the loss of the self, and the gift, and slavery. At first I ruled, loved less; then more, then slavery. Slavery to his image, his odor, the craving, the hunger, the thirst, the obsession.

Anaïs Nin, Fire: From �A Journal of Love� The Unexpurgated Diary of Anaïs Nin, 1934-1938

I find it quite appropriate. I got the title of motherfucking princess several years ago on here and I sort of settled into that role, tongue-in-cheek. When I "ruled" I did love less, at times I was sort of imperious. However, I met my Sir and I found as I loved him more, I ruled less. I wanted to be at his feet, not upon any throne, imaginary or other wise. I am a slave for him in the many ways that Anais Nin wrote of in the above quote. I played at being submissive before him, I never truly let go and submitted until him.

 

[sereneone4u]

Ah, no, oddly enough i wasn't thinking about gender-- I meant the idea that the scornful criticism of brattiness might not give rise to feelings of defensiveness out of insecurity, but merely of indignation on account of people who don't have anything but a jerking knee. NOT meaning you, I hasten to add.

I have to say I have always looked at bratty subs with scorn.

I would be horrified if my Sir ever said to me that I was being bratty.

It would cut me to the core, I have always found it distasteful.

However this discussion has given me something to think about.

 

[All_4_Love]

I have to say I have always looked at bratty subs with scorn.

I would be horrified if my Sir ever said to me that I was being bratty.

It would cut me to the core, I have always found it distasteful.

However this discussion has given me something to think about.

I can understand this...

Only as a personal feeling about myself, not about anyone else. To each their own.

It just seems there is a such a deep level of respect and devotion that comes with submission. To do anything that defies what "submission" means to us would be a heartbreak, indeed.

Thank you so much for sharing the Anais Nin quote with me.

 

[All_4_Love]

Brats are a way tiny minority here and actually most doms on this board prefer outright obedience more than anything so your worries are pretty unfounded tbh.

Again, it's all a matter of perspective. When I read through the forum here, I see very little talk of my kind being preferred. I see a lot of strong minded women, a lot of switches, women that can pretty much do anything in the sexual realm, women that aren't intimidated or shy like myself.

If I let it, this will make me feel bad about myself.

I start to ask myself, why am I "so submissive"? What's wrong with me?

Now, does that really make any sense? I identify as a submissive, so of course I'm submissive!

It's just a matter of degree. I'm on the extreme end, I guess. Who knows? It's rather comical, really.

At least I know one thing for sure, participating in this forum will definitely help you become stronger and clearer in your identity. It takes "this is who I am" to a whole 'nother level.

 

[LWulf]

Maybe someone should open a new thread with a poll so we can see how many actually prefer outright obedience and how many prefer outright disobedience (along with how many prefer to be obedient opposed to being disobedient). Forgetting and throwing away all labels that get attached in the process. Just outright obedience opposed to disobedience.

I prefer disobedient generally speaking. Gives me more good reasons to discipline them and as a sadist, I like that.

Complete obedience means I have to concoct reasons to discipline them and obviously means I now have no reason to discipline them. Not that I NEED a reason, but you know, it's ...better.

 

[All_4_Love]

Maybe someone should open a new thread with a poll so we can see how many actually prefer outright obedience and how many prefer outright disobedience (along with how many prefer to be obedient opposed to being disobedient). Forgetting and throwing away all labels that get attached in the process. Just outright obedience opposed to disobedience.

I prefer disobedient generally speaking. Gives me more good reasons to discipline them and as a sadist, I like that.

Complete obedience means I have to concoct reasons to discipline them and obviously means I now have no reason to discipline them. Not that I NEED a reason, but you know, it's ...better.

It just isn’t that simple, though. Obedient versus not obedient. Not when you throw sadism and masochism into the mix. As you said, you prefer to have a reason to discipline to satisfy the sadist in you but it’s not necessary.

For a woman like me, I would need a sadist that gave discipline, but also practiced it without preferring to have a reason. It would be something that we just did because we both enjoyed it. Because it satisfied a need, without having any other reason than that.

It appears that everything in this realm is a matter of degree. That's why it's so imperative to find a partner that matches your level of kink and your ideas of how the relationship dynamics should be. It seems pretty overwhelming to me. I have a long way to go it seems.

 

[LWulf]

It just isn’t that simple, though. Obedient versus not obedient. Not when you throw sadism and masochism into the mix. As you said, you prefer to have a reason to discipline to satisfy the sadist in you but it’s not necessary.

For a woman like me, I would need a sadist that gave discipline, but also practiced it without preferring to have a reason. It would be something that we just did because we both enjoyed it. Because it satisfied a need, without having any other reason than that.

So generalizations can't be made??? Preferences that's all. Why does everything have to have a verkakte caveat and addendum attached?

I once gave a look to one gf and told her "Move!" She decided that was a good time to be bratty and dig her heals in so she said "No. "

That there were two huge guys that looked like they were about to get into a fight with each other, behind her and she would get hurt in the process didn't even dawn on her. I should have just grabbed her and manhandled her behind me but I didn't like to do such things early in a relationship back then. I grabbed a hold of the pool table on either side of her and took the brunt of the harm instead when seconds later they did as I predicted, but I could have avoided that if she had listened to me.

There's a time and place for everything and I generally prefer bratty, but not all the time.

 

[All_4_Love]

So generalizations can't be made??? Preferences that's all. Why does everything have to have a verkakte caveat and addendum attached?

Hmm...verkakte caveat? You got me on that one.

I just had to look up "verkakte", which appears to be defined as "shitty"

So, why does everything have to have a shitty caveat? If this is what you're asking me, I was probably just being self centered, with a knee jerk reaction in sharing my thoughts. My apology if I came off as challenging.

Generalizations are cool... I guess

 

[LWulf]

Hmm...verkakte caveat? You got me on that one.

I just had to look up "verkakte", which appears to be defined as "shitty"

So, why does everything have to have a shitty caveat? If this is what you're asking me, I was probably just being self centered, with a knee jerk reaction in sharing my thoughts. My apology if I came off as challenging.

Generalizations are cool... I guess

The way it's been used around me I thought it meant "crazy" or "excessive." no, meshugenah I think means crazy. IDK.

I didn't see it as challenging, I just get tired of all the nuances that people seem to excessively describe everything as. It's kind of like politically correct. The more I hear it, the more I want to move out to a shack in the middle of the desert.

And as I stated before, dominance online drains me. Mostly because you get the urge to do something and... nothing, so it builds and... nothing. etc etc.

 

[sereneone4u]

I can understand this...

Only as a personal feeling about myself, not about anyone else. To each their own.

It just seems there is a such a deep level of respect and devotion that comes with submission. To do anything that defies what "submission" means to us would be a heartbreak, indeed.

Thank you so much for sharing the Anais Nin quote with me.

Yes to each their own, although when a couple of submissives on the threads were talking about the fun to be had by willfully disobeying their Sirs and I was taken aback. I was all aghast and thinking why would you have a Sir to disobey him? Horrors!

I mean I am not a door mat by any means, I am an alpha sub. I am independent and take charge type of person in every day life. I naturally step up to the plate, I defend those weaker and have no issues with being assertive in many situations, even at times being aggressive.

However, when it comes to my Sir, I can be exquisitely submissive. *Cheshire grin* I know this because he told me so. Other times he says I am so alpha though, so I need to work on that. I don't mean to, it just comes out.

Back to the topic at hand, I do often wonder what gratification a Dom/Domme gets from the dynamic, it seems like so much work on their end. But then my Dom is a pleasure Dom and I feel very spoiled.

 

[All_4_Love]

The way it's been used around me I thought it meant "crazy" or "excessive." no, meshugenah I think means crazy. IDK.

I didn't see it as challenging, I just get tired of all the nuances that people seem to excessively describe everything as. It's kind of like politically correct. The more I hear it, the more I want to move out to a shack in the middle of the desert.

And as I stated before, dominance online drains me. Mostly because you get the urge to do something and... nothing, so it builds and... nothing. etc etc.

I agree with what you're saying. I wasn't trying to be politically correct, really. My way of describing it earlier was saying that it was overwhelming, all of the details, having to match your kink, the labels, definitions, etc.

I get it. It's frustrating.

I'm totally with you on the shack in the middle of the desert thing, too. Only, for me, I'd have to be on an island. Off the grid seems rather appealing to me quite often.

 

[All_4_Love]

Back to the topic at hand, I do often wonder what gratification a Dom/Domme gets from the dynamic, it seems like so much work on their end.

Indeed. It is such a tremendous responsibility. I wonder the same thing myself.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Everything has to have a caveat because we are talking about specifics -- in general terms-- and we can spend a dozen posts establishing that we only meant one thing and not all the other things, or we can just make that clear in the beginning.

 

[MeekMe]

Indeed. It is such a tremendous responsibility. I wonder the same thing myself.

I'm not dominant in anyway, but being submissive is a lot of work. I take care of Mister. In fulfilling my need to please him, I've taken a lot of the burden off of him. The way I see it written and talked about, is that somehow the dominant partner takes on so much more work.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or our dynamic is very different from the usual. I just see myself as taking on way more. He doesn't think for me, but I do everything with him and his needs in mind.