just curious : gratification of being a dom

[All_4_Love]

Well I am the Ž category.
I bet most of you dont even have it on your keyboards least know how to pronounce it.

Quoted for truth. Can we get an audio clip?

 

[Endless_Night]

Well I am the Ž category.
I bet most of you dont even have it on your keyboards least know how to pronounce it.

Now you're just showing off, SK.

 

[All_4_Love]

After I had posted earlier about how there is not a "make me" mentality to my submission, I started trying to consolidate how this could be because my fantasies have always entailed forced submission of some kind.

I realized that my mentality is not "make me" but "use me". Again, not an easy admission, but who I am nonetheless. This seems to fall under a "teach me/show me to please" mentality, as well.

 

[StrayKat]

I am still on my first coffee but here you go ladies

http://vocaroo.com/i/s03t2oYfjBIr

 

[All_4_Love]

I am still on my first coffee but here you go ladies

http://vocaroo.com/i/s03t2oYfjBIr

There are no words that could possibly express how absolutely awesome you are right now!

*bows down to Kat*

Your voice and accent are beautiful.

 

[Stella_Omega]

After I had posted earlier about how there is not a "make me" mentality to my submission, I started trying to consolidate how this could be because my fantasies have always entailed forced submission of some kind.

I realized that my mentality is not "make me" but "use me". Again, not an easy admission, but who I am nonetheless. This seems to fall under a "teach me/show me to please" mentality, as well.

I get that.

One category of my fantasies is objectification-- and yeah, there is force, because you don't expect the car to start itself, you stick the key into the ignition. If you want the animal to stay in its cage, you put the dog in its cage.

Something along those lines...

 

[StrayKat]

There are no words that could possibly express how absolutely awesome you are right now!

*bows down to Kat*

Your voice and accent are beautiful.

Why thank you, you make me blush
I do think I need a new mic though, I stepped on this one just 2 days ago and it sounds a bit funny.


On topic, I really have no problem with "make me" or "use me" or objectification, or whatever else does it for you. It may not be my thing but I respect that we are not all the same and I am cool with whatever you do.
What I do have problem with, in brat context, is when a grown up person acts like a spoiled ignorant child. That is what grates me. I cannot stand childish coming from an adult, that is absolutely icky for me, especially in sexual context.

I know, I know, I am lost for all the Daddies looking for a babygirl and babyboys looking for a Mommy (is there such thing anyway, dont think I saw it much?) now, but if you want to kill my sexy mood which is otherwise pretty unkillable, just start acting like you are 5 and I am done.

Again, I understand that is exactly what some people like and I am ok with that as long as I dont have to see it/be involved in any way.

 

[LWulf]

Of course I have a Ž on my keyboard, I also have:
¦}

:þ

ÒÓ

I also have §ρąηķ

 

[StrayKat]

Of course I have a Ž on my keyboard, I also have:
¦}

:þ

ÒÓ

I also have §ρąηķ

I want an audio clip of §ρąηķ please

 

[DesEsseintes]

Not at all absurd or undesirable. Thank you for articulating your thoughts on this. You have said much that has resonated with me and I've enjoyed your points of view, especially this one...



This is deeply touching. It is the trust that I'm giving, the complete handing over of control, the absolute surrender, suffering for him because I trust him, because it's what he wants me to do. That is the psychology behind my submission as well as my masochism. Perhaps, there is a "guilt" factor in that, where my masochistic tendencies are concerned, but I have not explored that in depth. It's not a "make me" thing for me. That holds no appeal.

Thank you. It's good to hear from someone identifying as submissive who knows that the kind of gradual, deep trust I'm writing about is indeed possible. I've met many Doms who don't think so - and, in one case, been accused of messing with dangerous forces by a Christian Dom.

I love your signature quotation as well - I had not read that, and it rings very true to me, in my experience. Of what value is a weak submissive? The greater her strength, and the greater the value she places on herself, the greater value her submission becomes.

Anyway, I'll stop now before this becomes a love-in, but I just wanted to let you know your response was appreciated.

 

[All_4_Love]

I get that.

One category of my fantasies is objectification-- and yeah, there is force, because you don't expect the car to start itself, you stick the key into the ignition. If you want the animal to stay in its cage, you put the dog in its cage.

Something along those lines...

Yes, that’s it, objectification. Not to be confused with humiliation/degradation for my personal tastes, however.

I knew that yesterday but it was difficult for me to say. Thank you for the push, Stella, although I know that was not the intent behind your post.

ETA: upon further reflection, I think there may be some humiliation/degradation in there somewhere...

Shit! Shit! Shit! This thread is killing me! (Pardon my language)

I want an audio clip of §ρąηķ please

This is hilarious!

Waiting, waiting, waiting....

Of what value is a weak submissive? The greater her strength, and the greater the value she places on herself, the greater value her submission becomes.

Thank you for your kind words. This gives me lots of hope, as I know that I can be quite valuable to someone someday. Contrary to popular belief, it does exist, perhaps a rarity, but there is always yin/yang, opposite forces, and when they meet, it's extremely powerful, indeed.

Anyway, I'll stop now before this becomes a love-in, but I just wanted to let you know your response was appreciated.

Again, thank you, and yours the same.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I am still on my first coffee but here you go ladies

http://vocaroo.com/i/s03t2oYfjBIr

Like!

 

[sereneone4u]

You won't be surprised to hear that the answer will be different for everyone. Some people say that people often take sexual roles the opposite of their daytime roles: the cliche of the CEO who pays to be whipped after work. I've not known it so often the other way round, though, in almost ten years' experience - that is to say, I can understand wanting to abdicate responsibility for those who have demanding jobs and being a sub/slave/bottom, but I can imagine it must be hard to be really mentally and emotionally dominant if one's real life work is soul-crushing and one is a powerless wage-slave. (I don't say it's impossible, of course - just that most Doms I've known, especially male ones, tend to be reasonably well-educated with fairly decent jobs, etc. Sadists, of course, working out some private psychosexual feelings, is a different matter.) I've never been anything but dominant since first knowing that it was a known attribute, and probably unconsciously long before that, and I've been lucky enough to have responsible and demanding work all my adult life. I wouldn't want to 'switch off'.

It's a wonderful world out there, and there are others here who could tell you far more about it, as well as excellent websites (in the UK, those run by Tanos are well worth exploring, and go into some thoughtful explorations of ideas). Speaking personally, the turn-on for me is the control of pleasure, and it's a tactile as well as a mental thing. I'm not a sadist - it's never interested me - but physical and mental control are fascinating, and there is no greater compliment than watching a woman's barriers come down, one by one, as you step together into a new border country. However many times you have enacted a particular scene, tied a particular knot, or whispered a certain phrase, it is forged anew in the shared experience of each particular moment, and the land you reach together is always unexplored, boundless, virgin territory.

As free human beings our autonomy is our most precious possession. To loan that to someone else - let alone hand it to them, as in some astonishing Master-slave dynamics I know of - is the most astonishing gift of trust one can make. I don't think I'll ever cease my sense of wonder at sensing that metaphorical placing of the hand in mine.

Interesting perspective.

 

[sereneone4u]

This has been a refreshing and illuminating discussion - many thanks to the original poster and to all those very experienced people who contributed (with the exception, of course, of the White Witch and her troglodytic acolytes, hoofing into the discussion with all the restraint and grace of a paralytic hippo).

I ought to have made it clearer, as others have, that of course my opinions are purely personal, and in no way did I wish to go down the 'No true Dom' fallacy route. Everyone's thoughtful perspectives on what works for them has made me look at my own motives more clearly, and I'm afraid they are rather grandiose. Still, aim high, and all that...

The closest analogy for what I am trying to achieve within a D/s relationship (each time inevitably failing, but failing better, as Beckett wrote) is what I understand to be the theology behind Free Will. God wishes us, goes the argument, not to be slaves, with no choice other than to obey him - he wishes us to have the option of taking the evil path so that those who choose good, from their own free will, have made a meaningful decision. Similarly, I want a sub to be unsure of what she wants, and to gradually become surer that what she wants is to abdicate, little by little, her own responsibility. To slip into theology again for a moment, I want her to feel that true freedom comes from giving up decisions.

Now if I were to beat this into her (well, quite apart from the fact that it wouldn't work, and that I don't especially enjoy floggings, etc), it would be as if God had implanted us all with an overwhelming desire to choose the good. Such a decision on his part would certainly ensure he had an army of billions to do his bidding - but it would be less satisfying than mere thousands or millions who freely chose his way. I don't want her to be willing at first - otherwise where is my victory? I want her to be nervous, unsure, to take a step back for every step forward - precisely because I want each step to be the result of a struggle within herself to be more submissive.

Doesn't that sound as if I want a brat - someone who will answer back, snap at me, try to push me into a corner so that I lose my temper and my control? Perhaps. The difference for me is that fear, anxiety, nervousness, etc are all understandable - even desirable - emotions, in someone making such a fundamental journey against the Sartrean authenticity of being their own agent. But none of those things have to be expressed rudely, or insolently, or to be a challenge for me.

"I don't know if I can do that. Help me?" would elicit a warm response, a discussion, perhaps a step back, perhaps a breaking-down of whatever task it is into more manageable chunks - in short, I hope, a sensitive, mutual exploration which will still get us to where I want us to go, albeit by a more circuitous route.

"Come on then, bitch, make me!" merely leads to a shut down of any respect on my behalf. It is not my task to force someone against their will. It is my task, as I see it and take pleasure in it, to bend their will itself until it aligns with mine.

I am sure there will be many who see this as absurd, impossible, undesirable, etc - that's fine. Once more, it takes all sorts. I genuinely meant it when I said that I have, perhaps, never before thought so clearly about what motivates me, and that is owing to the thoughtfulness and wisdom of the posters above. Thank you again.

Thank you. It's good to hear from someone identifying as submissive who knows that the kind of gradual, deep trust I'm writing about is indeed possible. I've met many Doms who don't think so - and, in one case, been accused of messing with dangerous forces by a Christian Dom.

I love your signature quotation as well - I had not read that, and it rings very true to me, in my experience. Of what value is a weak submissive? The greater her strength, and the greater the value she places on herself, the greater value her submission becomes.

Anyway, I'll stop now before this becomes a love-in, but I just wanted to let you know your response was appreciated.

Again, always interesting. Thank you.

 

[All_4_Love]

Serene One,

The Anais Nin quote in your signature? Absolutely breathtaking! I have never read that one before.

 

[Endless_Night]

< What I do have problem with, in brat context, is when a grown up person acts like a spoiled ignorant child. That is what grates me. I cannot stand childish coming from an adult, that is absolutely icky for me, especially in sexual context. >

Damn, SK. What’s up with the continuing criticism of brat behavior? And the limited definition? I can assure you that I don’t act, “like a spoiled ignorant child”, in any sexual context.

And you wouldn’t just assume a masochist wanted their ass belted to bloody welts. A brat could range from a raised eyebrow and a, “Reaaallly”, to their Dominants proposed spanking all the way to an outright temper tantrum. Not to mention anything between and beyond.

You’ve made it VERY clear you loathe the behavior, but its also clear that some of us identify that way. The steady stream of derogatory commentary is starting to make me feel…a bit judged.

While I like you, but I don’t like being judged on my kink.

 

[StrayKat]

I am sorry dear, I made my point and I wont go on. I can edit if it really bothers you.

 

[Endless_Night]

< I realized that my mentality is not "make me" but "use me". Again, not an easy admission, but who I am nonetheless. This seems to fall under a "teach me/show me to please" mentality, as well. >

I get that.

One category of my fantasies is objectification-- and yeah, there is force, because you don't expect the car to start itself, you stick the key into the ignition. If you want the animal to stay in its cage, you put the dog in its cage.

Something along those lines...

Objectification.

I go back and forth on this subject. On the one hand, yes, the idea of being used sexually is hot, on the other, it seems a little to...impersonal.

I want the desire or lust or whatever to be directed at me because I’m me, not just some available female body with the appropriate equipment and holes.

Maybe it goes back to Stella’s dominant bottom description. I don’t want to have to be in control, but I do want lots of attention. Wouldn’t that contradict the whole objectification concept?

Hmmm. I think I’m still confused.

 

[Lost_God]

If I may....

I don't enjoy brats. (That declaration felt absurdly necessary.) I'm simply not that sort of Dominant. Forcing someone to do something doesn't really get me off. And in the vein of the initial post, I suppose part of the thrill of being a Dominant is psychological, some of it is sexual. There's not line in the sand precluding either from being part of the Dominant experience. For me, the psychological thrill lies in the tease, the.... seduction. Not the bending over the knee and spanking. There's very little pleasure for me to be had there. Punishment, humiliation, sadism, not so much.

As described by a previous poster in slightly different words, it's watching my submissive slip tighter and tighter into my grasp, of her own free will. Dragging her kicking and screaming is no fun at all. But watching those soft whispered words (or those firm grips when necessary) take effect is 90% of the fun. One of my absolute favourite things to do with my submissive is to simply coax her into admitting her submission. To seduce her into submission, and to hear from her own lips the things she says to me when she's my primal little animal.

 

[Endless_Night]

I am sorry dear, I made my point and I wont go on. I can edit if it really bothers you.

No worries.

Just starting to grate a bit.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s03t2oYfjBIr

Looooove the accent by the way! I fell in absolute lust with a guy who sounded quite similar when I was in Amsterdam.

 

[All_4_Love]

And you wouldn’t just assume a masochist wanted their ass belted to bloody welts. A brat could range from a raised eyebrow and a, “Reaaallly”, to their Dominants proposed spanking all the way to an outright temper tantrum. Not to mention anything between and beyond.

Agree.

Although, I don't identify as a brat, I am guilty of all of these things at some point. The masochist in me would gladly, albeit reluctantly, take a punishment.

ETA:
Hmm... Gladly but reluctantly? I'm an oxymoron!

As described by a previous poster in slightly different words, it's watching my submissive slip tighter and tighter into my grasp, of her own free will. Dragging her kicking and screaming is no fun at all. But watching those soft whispered words (or those firm grips when necessary) take effect is 90% of the fun. One of my absolute favourite things to do with my submissive is to simply coax her into admitting her submission. To seduce her into submission, and to hear from her own lips the things she says to me when she's my primal little animal.

Oh, my...this is beautiful.

 

[All_4_Love]

Objectification.

I go back and forth on this subject. On the one hand, yes, the idea of being used sexually is hot, on the other, it seems a little to...impersonal.

I want the desire or lust or whatever to be directed at me because I’m me, not just some available female body with the appropriate equipment and holes.

Maybe it goes back to Stella’s dominant bottom description. I don’t want to have to be in control, but I do want lots of attention. Wouldn’t that contradict the whole objectification concept?

Hmmm. I think I’m still confused.

To this, I would say, when involved in a loving, trusting relationship, you wouldn't be just a female with holes, no matter in which way he used you. Just my thoughts...

And you wouldn’t just assume a masochist wanted their ass belted to bloody welts. A brat could range from a raised eyebrow and a, “Reaaallly”, to their Dominants proposed spanking all the way to an outright temper tantrum. Not to mention anything between and beyond.

"Reaction to a proposed spanking"

I totally didn't register that part. I would have to retract my statement in that sense because I am extremely sensitive to any type of authoritative tone, even when there is no relationship involved. There have been times where I've been in situations where I could sense a dominant man, and he took an authoritative tone, and I had to leave the room because I began having a reaction to it. Endless Night, can you attest to anything like this?

I've enjoyed reading and participating in this thread. It has inspired a lot of deep reflection.

 

[Netzach]

I never really got the whole brat debate. Generally I'm not into it. Done well, it's an irresistibly seductive art form. So I can't say I never tolerate it. I can say I rarely feel the motivation to take the bait and play.

To me brat is not a *person* it's a behavior, it is a scene. I want a partner with whom I can actually dance a dance and adjust around and not somebody who will always deliver the response du jour that they did every other day of my life.

I love control, but not if it means becoming too predictable. I do SM on the fly as often as possible, it's a constant flow chart of ifs and thens, and when it feels like it's working and it's getting me off in that special and elusive way, then that success boner is a huge part of it.

When bratting is done to a scale to tear me down or show me up, that's another story. Game ends before we get going - if we're starting from a zero-respect point, then I don't think I know that person well enough to be touching anything I wouldn't involve in a handshake. I start with a half a tank of respect for people I don't know well, and it can be filled up or emptied very fast. People who insist that every iota or respect has to be earned tire the fuck out of me fast.

 

[KoPilot]

I don't get why there's so much brat-hate on here. Like seriously, no other category of submissive gets as much vocal hate and derision as brats do. No one ever feels the need to continuously, over the course of a single thread, talk about how much they're not into slaves or the M/s dynamic. Why the fuck is it okay to keep doing it with brats an their handlers? I'm beginning to think that it's just a subtler form of "twue sub".

I get it. I'm not for you. Stop pretending like I was trying to be to begin with.

It's seriously starting to sound like the chorus of guys who feel it appropriate To tell women that makeup is ugly; especially the ones that don't actually give a fuck what men think.

 

[All_4_Love]

I don't get why there's so much brat-hate on here. Like seriously, no other category of submissive gets as much vocal hate and derision as brats do. No one ever feels the need to continuously, over the course of a single thread, talk about how much they're not into slaves or the M/s dynamic. Why the fuck is it okay to keep doing it with brats an their handlers? I'm beginning to think that it's just a subtler form of "twue sub".

I get it. I'm not for you. Stop pretending like I was trying to be to begin with.

It's seriously starting to sound like the chorus of guys who feel it appropriate To tell women that makeup is ugly; especially the ones that don't actually give a fuck what men think.

It's hard for me, to an extent, when I know that women like myself who lean toward obedience are felt to be less fun, less interesting, predictable, even a step above doormat, so to speak (I know that has not been said here) but those are the things that jump out at my conscience when reading this thread. I know with the right man, he would consider me none of those things.

Its okay. It doesn't bother me too bad. It's a bit of a "pang", but I'm really sensitive, so I take that into consideration and just use it to further myself toward self acceptance.

Everyone is different. It's what makes us who we are. I don't see it as brat hate, really, just difference in preferences. *hug*