if you arent doing anything wrong...

[Elbryan]

I am curious...

I was talking with a friend today, and somehow the conversation turned to our government, and pivacy violations. I was saying that I didnt like the fact that under new legislation, law enforcement officials can basically sift through your emails, financial records, phone calls, internet activity, and all sorts of other stuff, just by telling a judge that they think you are a terrorist, or aiding a terrorist (ok, i know its a little more difficult than that, but not much...). his response was basically, if you arent doing anything wrong, why should you care?

that kind of suprised me... I guess i just assumed that everyone would be a little bothered about Big Brother glancing over their shoulders, but apparently that doesnt bother some people...

so, I guess my question is this... which side to you fall on? Im curious to hear other peoples opinions...

 

[April]

IMO, that's a cop out response. It means you haven't thought about the issue, and you don't want to think about it. It implies too much faith in the "authorities".

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the erosion of our rights and our privacy. Looser restrictions on all manner of invasive snooping is worrisome. I haven't read anything but headlines about registration of certain nationalities, but just the thought of it is reminiscent of a totalitarian regime.

Then again, it's after 2:30 in the morning. So I'll shut up now.

 

[Elbryan]

it is disturbing... i mean, at what point does giving up rights for safety become too much? we can never be 100% safe, its not possible. and, i think a better question is, is it really worth it to be safer, if it means giving up many of the rights this country stands for?

 

[Guest]

Sadly, its a choice between security and freedom. I do not trust our gov't. Why do some cities have cameras on the streets? There is no reason for it. But, the general public is apathetic about losing their freedoms so the gov't chips away at them because we allow it.
1984 anyone?

 

[Sillyman]

The primary problem is that you may have not done anything wrong, you can simply be persecuted for being aberrant from the mainstream in general or the specific official in questions ethical structure. If people can just randomly sift through your shit to try to damn you, God only knows what they will come up with. Your grocery preferences turn into a shopping list for bomb ingredients, your childhood photos become child pornography, and a casual interest in off-beat religeons turns into you into a dangerous cultist.

 

[Agent99]

Why stop at the government? Privacy is eroding at breakneck speed. Everywhere.

Use a credit/debit card at any POS and databases record your purchases. I don't want anyone knowing my comings and goings, what I buy and the frequency with which I shop. (And I don't always have cash in great amounts- and I shouldn't have to)

Banks are required to report any activity on transactions over $10,000. If I deposit a check for more than that, I don't want the government investigating where it came from. I am doing nothing illegal.

My library keeps track of what books I borrow and reports same to officials. If a book has been published and an arm of the government sees fit to lend it, why should I be suspect for reading it?

My credit is subject to scrutiny from various institutions and organizations among others. I don't consider this part of the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

My biggest complaint with this attack on my privacy is now focused on local government. All across the country, agencies are putting information online. For example: real estate records; divorce actions; court proceedings. They use the excuse that these are part of the public record and therefore 'have' to be posted on their website.

I maintain that there is a significant difference between someone who has to take the time and trouble to go to a courthouse or office building and request records and someone sitting at home in front of a computer and researching anonymously.

I have a friend who innocently remarked that she knew how much I paid in taxes. I was shocked (not only that she knew how to check, but also that she cared to look it up) After giving the matter some thought, it disturbed me even more to realize that all my personal information was available at this site, including social security number.

Some websites provide specifications on your house - when you bought it, what you paid for it, improvements you've made, etc. They even have pictures of homes and maps leading anyone (including those with not so nice intentions) straight to your front door. This is insanity.

I read an article recently where a woman's divorce proceedings were available online and opened up her dirty laundry for the world to see.

There has to be some balance. The public's "right to know" should not include personal information or engraved invitations to commit crimes against them or their property.

If I want to buy a bottle of liquor or a dirty magazine along with my groceries, I shouldn't have to use cash to avoid prying eyes. If I get a speeding ticket, I shouldn't have to worry that my co-workers will read all about it online when they are surfing the net (when Lit goes down).

If I sell stock and get a big fat check from the brokerage, I should be able to deposit it without raising suspicion and having my representatives thinking I am a drug dealer.

Oh, and De Sade is right. I also don't want people watching me get out of my car and see me pulling my underwear out of my ass or having my lover giving me a discreet feel in the parking lot of the grocery store and have it end up being on someone's Holiday Video Blooper tape.

 

[Elbryan]

that is an extreme case, but definately a possibility. how many news stories have quotes from "goverment sources that wish to remain annonymous (sp?)"? its obvious people who have access to information are willing to share it with the press... its only a step further and all of your personal info is out there...

edited to add: the extreme case comment was referring to sillymans post

 

[Phoenyx]

I may have doen nothign wrong,, how do I know htat they guy who is taking my personal information is going to do something right.

 

[Shaq]

Because security from invasion of foreign forces is something that people need.

No one should have the right to do what your home, the place where you rest away from the world, without provocation. It's not only an inconvenience but it eliminates any feeling of comfortability and that can lead to madness. it's no way to live at all.

That's not the only problem. Simple logic states that one doesn't treat a criminal in the same manner as one does the innocent. By regressing to the point our society is we aren't that much of a departure away from the "Trial By Ordeal" and other insanity that has soiled human history.

 

[Guest]

Technology has opened up so many cans of worms. We are living in a society that will soon resemble Minority Report.
Science fiction has become science fact-voice recognition, retina scans, etc. We have technology but we havent learned to use it without creating more problems.

 

[horny_giraffe]

I don't worry so much about being persecuted for being different as I worry about selective enforcement.

It's like the issue with racial profiling. It's not that the police aren't justified in pulling a black man over for speeding--but why the fuck didn't they pull over that white guy, too?

So if some guy seems like he (or she) could be a terrorist, (based on what?--an Islamic background) suddenly they are targeted for this selective enforcement of the law, so that the FBI can justify their further investigation.

On a routine check stop for XXXX, we discovered...

Generally speaking, I don't do much of anything wrong. But suppose I get into habits of pushing the laws a little bit (like the legend that a person won't get pulled over unless they are driving more than ten miles above the speed limit) and one day I find myself under scrutiny for some reason. All of a sudden, I feel oppressed because I no longer have those same margins that regular people have when they break the law.

That's what I'm worried about.

 

[Elbryan]

<snip>

Generally speaking, I don't do much of anything wrong. But suppose I get into habits of pushing the laws a little bit (like the legend that a person won't get pulled over unless they are driving more than ten miles above the speed limit) and one day I find myself under scrutiny for some reason. All of a sudden, I feel oppressed because I no longer have those same margins that regular people have when they break the law.

That's what I'm worried about.

but, i think that is kind of the problem though... most people dont do anything wrong, and therefore really dont care about this... until it begins to affect them... the problem is, by that time, it may be very difficult to change anything...