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Loving those who are in transition

Etoile

Etoile

Mod, 2003-2015
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Posts
17,049
Let's talk transgender and orientation. Not the orientation of the person who's transitioning, but of the person who loves them. If Becky is dating a butch woman who is just starting to realize she's FTM, is Becky a lesbian? How about after Becky's partner transitions - is Becky now straight? If Andrew has been exclusively with women but is dating a post-op MTF, is he still straight? What if Andrew's partner is pre-op but lives as a woman full-time? Where along the queer orientation spectrum do these people fall?
 
Interesting take, and to push it further...what if a straight guy, George, likes to receive a strap on from his straight wife, Laura? Where would they fall? How about a man who performs anal sex? Blindfold him and I highly doubt he could tell between the sexes.
 
This is tricky.

Becky's girl/boyfriend identifies with men, right? Her/his sexual identity is male. So imho he's male. I think that Becky's orientation is up to what she considers herself: if she considers herself to be a lesbian, she is still a lesbian. If she considers herself now to be bisexual, then I'm going to agree with her that she's bisexual.

I think that it's all about how we identify ourselves...it's like...well...gay people may have had sexual encounters with the opposite sex, and straight people may have had encounters with the same sex, but as long as they know what they identify as it's not a problem.

The complications come up when Becky herself is confused. "What am I?" It's not really a question I could answer for her. It's a question she'd have to answer herself...Any identity *we* tag the person with is just bullshit.

-Chicklet
 
This is where the saying "love knows no boundries," fits the best I believe. They love the person, not just what sex they are. As far as idenity goes and science goes... it is up to the book definitions I suppose.

for example) FTM - they did the transition they are male (struggeling, using treatments and going to therapy, and living as a male essentially would etc...) but they identify with being male, they have "the parts." they have essentially become male. Their lovers loved them, supported the person and not just the physical 'them', and if when it comes down to it if they cannot (do not) agree with their new parts then they will most likely find another butch lesbian, but every situation/person is different as far as who they would date next.

Outwards apperances do help, but what about all those online relationships that bud and thrive and they do finally meet and they could be beaten with the ugly stick or have omited what gender they were (which would be wrong, but just for arguements purposes) they fell for each other not for the physical appearance or what was under the skirt so to say.
 
Dick Cheyney said:
Interesting take, and to push it further...what if a straight guy, George, likes to receive a strap on from his straight wife, Laura? Where would they fall? How about a man who performs anal sex? Blindfold him and I highly doubt he could tell between the sexes.
Click to expand...
That's not the issue. I'm not talking about sex between a biological male and a biological female. I think it's pretty well agreed (at least around this board) that fucking up the ass - whether he's doing her or she's doing him - does not make a couple gay.
 
Etoile said:
That's not the issue. I'm not talking about sex between a biological male and a biological female. I think it's pretty well agreed (at least around this board) that fucking up the ass - whether he's doing her or she's doing him - does not make a couple gay.
Click to expand...


Well, if you're talking baking cookies in the kitchen, I don't think it matters what transition anybody is in!
 
Depends.

If you date someone who is now your oriented gender even though they didn't used to be, your orientation remains the same over all.

If you date someone who changes genders and continue to date them through the process to it's eventually conclusion, it would technically make you bisexual. I would say you would be bisexual, heavily biased towards your partner's former gender.
 
Dick Cheyney said:
Interesting take, and to push it further...what if a straight guy, George, likes to receive a strap on from his straight wife, Laura? Where would they fall? How about a man who performs anal sex? Blindfold him and I highly doubt he could tell between the sexes.
Click to expand...

Assplay by either gender between heterosexual couples is not homosexual activity, although it might indicate a homosexual leaning or tendency.

Asses may be interchangeable (although I doubt it), but physical appearence, sound, and body smell are not.
 
Dick Cheyney said:
Interesting take, and to push it further...what if a straight guy, George, likes to receive a strap on from his straight wife, Laura? Where would they fall? How about a man who performs anal sex? Blindfold him and I highly doubt he could tell between the sexes.
Click to expand...

Further, Bush comes from a background of having an extremely domineering mother. Taking that into consideration it's doubtful he would run to the submissive nature that such an act requires. More likely his sexual fantasies involve degrading Laura or forcing her to live up to his expectations.
 
Sillyman said:
Depends.

If you date someone who is now your oriented gender even though they didn't used to be, your orientation remains the same over all.

If you date someone who changes genders and continue to date them through the process to it's eventually conclusion, it would technically make you bisexual. I would say you would be bisexual, heavily biased towards your partner's former gender.
Click to expand...
Rockin', this is the kind of opinion I was curious to hear. Thanks.
 
Sillyman said:
Further, Bush comes from a background of having an extremely domineering mother. Taking that into consideration it's doubtful he would run to the submissive nature that such an act requires. More likely his sexual fantasies involve degrading Laura or forcing her to live up to his expectations.
Click to expand...
Oh my god. This is SO not something I want to think about! :eek: :eek:
 
Etoile said:
Rockin', this is the kind of opinion I was curious to hear. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I enjoy classification; the trick is to know when to give up your labels.


Sorry for the mental images of the Prez. No one wants to think about that, I'm sure.
 
I think that sexuality is not really defined by the person you are with so much as it is defined by who you are generally attracted to. If you have a sexual attraction to the opposite sex then you are straight, to the same sex you are gay/lesbian, and if you are sexually attracted to both then you are bisexual. Defining someone by who they are with is never really accurate anyway. I am a married woman, so to any observer, I seem like an average straight woman, but I am definitely bisexual, which is something no one would know unless I tell them.
 
Etoile said:
Let's talk transgender and orientation. Not the orientation of the person who's transitioning, but of the person who loves them. If Becky is dating a butch woman who is just starting to realize she's FTM, is Becky a lesbian? How about after Becky's partner transitions - is Becky now straight? If Andrew has been exclusively with women but is dating a post-op MTF, is he still straight? What if Andrew's partner is pre-op but lives as a woman full-time? Where along the queer orientation spectrum do these people fall?
Click to expand...

How did I miss this thread? :confused:

You know... This was a huge problem in my last relationship. The person I was with identified as a lesbian but once I started transitioning she became confused. If she was with me then she really wasn't a lesbian and that bothered her ALOT. It eventually led to us breaking up then having an on and off relationship for years.

Fortunately, the woman I'm dating is bi-sexual and as such she doesn't care. I had to stop my transition for a period of time and just recently started again about the time we started dating. We work together so she responds to me with female pronouns at work, but started using masculine terms away from work without me saying anything. She told her mom that she is able to see me for who I am not the gender I'm bound to.

Honestly... I wish we could live without labels, but since it's the way our brains work it's not really possible. Maybe those that are dating trans people could just call themselves Queer... Or perhaps "in love" rather than worrying about the other stuff.
 
If Danielle, wants to be called Daniel then I will call him Daniel.

If Julie, wants to be called Julian, then I will call him Julian. And what if I fall in love with them ? would I be gay ? Straight ? Bisexual ?

Hmmm no I would just be a lover of the person in them. And heck, bisexual people, just have double chances of getting laid saturday night ;)

I just think, you should love the inside of the person, and not what they were outside of the person.

to me the personality, is what I fall for, and the maturity in the person.
And maturity, has nothing to do with age.
 
Wolfman1982 said:
If Danielle, wants to be called Daniel then I will call him Daniel.

If Julie, wants to be called Julian, then I will call him Julian. And what if I fall in love with them ? would I be gay ? Straight ? Bisexual ?

Hmmm no I would just be a lover of the person in them. And heck, bisexual people, just have double chances of getting laid saturday night ;)

I just think, you should love the inside of the person, and not what they were outside of the person.

to me the personality, is what I fall for, and the maturity in the person.
And maturity, has nothing to do with age.
Click to expand...


Wow... Too bad more people don't think like you.
 
A little, and sweet joke (don´t worry)

Tymeless said:
they would be monosexual htey love the person not the sex
Click to expand...

Of course I love the sex, but it is the gender I don´t care about if it is male, or female.

Yeah, I know sex, and gender does mean the same thing in one direction, but not in both. Of what I know of, in the lovely English language.

And yes Tymeless I knew you ment gender, when you wrote sex. :)

I just felt like making a joke :) as long it doesn´t hurt any one. Since DustyWolfe I ment every word you qouted, and well would you believe it , if I said I was only 23 ? :) since I am only 23 :)
 
I've been with gay, straight and bisexual men, and have my own way of gauging their orientation. Basically i use how they focus on my body as a barometer. Specifically...

If a man dives on my penis and won't leave it alone... he's gay.

If a man avoids my penis like the plague, and touches me everywhere but there... he's straight.

If a man pays equal attention to my breasts and penis... he's bisexual.
 
Etoile said:
Let's talk transgender and orientation. Not the orientation of the person who's transitioning, but of the person who loves them. If Becky is dating a butch woman who is just starting to realize she's FTM, is Becky a lesbian? How about after Becky's partner transitions - is Becky now straight? If Andrew has been exclusively with women but is dating a post-op MTF, is he still straight? What if Andrew's partner is pre-op but lives as a woman full-time? Where along the queer orientation spectrum do these people fall?
Click to expand...

i once brought this up on the general board but with tongue firmly in cheek.

as a generality i think you should consider the relationship to be based on the preferred sex of both parties involved.

for example a man involved with a mtf transgender you should consider one the boyfriend and one the girlfriend. the same applies to a female who is dating a ftm~shes the girlfriend while he's the boyfriend.

with that logic... a man involved with a ftm is in a homosexual relationship.
 
glamorilla said:
with that logic... a man involved with a ftm is in a homosexual relationship.
Click to expand...

Bingo... That's why they call FtMs that date males "Trannyfags".

If an FtM dates females they would be considered straight. And if they are into both then of course they are bi....
 
I'm a soon to be hormonal MtF, and from what I can see so far, the differences in gender are largely superficial. There are both masculine and feminine men and women, and anyone can fit whatever gender stereotype they want. Seeing as we all started the same way in the womb, I don't get why everyone must be differentiated by trivial things. Are we really that different?

Then again, I've never dated, and never had a partner.`
 
I originally identified as bi, then looking over my relationship choices began to consider myself heteroflexible. Given that my partner hasn't started any sort of medical transition past counseling, I'm rethinking identifying as bisexual, but am also considering terms like "queer" and "pansexual".

Is "befuddled" an orientetation?
 
Last edited:
DustyWolfe said:
How did I miss this thread? :confused:

You know... This was a huge problem in my last relationship. The person I was with identified as a lesbian but once I started transitioning she became confused. If she was with me then she really wasn't a lesbian and that bothered her ALOT. It eventually led to us breaking up then having an on and off relationship for years.

Fortunately, the woman I'm dating is bi-sexual and as such she doesn't care. I had to stop my transition for a period of time and just recently started again about the time we started dating. We work together so she responds to me with female pronouns at work, but started using masculine terms away from work without me saying anything. She told her mom that she is able to see me for who I am not the gender I'm bound to.

Honestly... I wish we could live without labels, but since it's the way our brains work it's not really possible. Maybe those that are dating trans people could just call themselves Queer... Or perhaps "in love" rather than worrying about the other stuff.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be wonderful...

I have a friend who was-- was I say-- a fem-sep lesbian, until her girlfriend went into transition. Now, she's married to a man. :D

The funny and sad thing was the way her parents reacted-- They told her they always knew her lesbianism was just a phase that she would grow out of. the fact that the man she's now with is the very same person as the woman she had been with all along doesn't seem to make any sense to them.
 
Wyrdbyrd said:
I originally identified as bi, then looking over my relationship choices began to consider myself heteroflexible. Given that my partner hasn't started any sort of medical transition past counseling, I'm rethinking identifying as bisexual, but am also considering terms like "queer" and "pansexual".

Is "befuddled" an orientetation?
Click to expand...

As has oft been said......why bother with the titles & labels.


I'm thrilled to see serious topics here again....although I enjoy much of the non-serious content that was here....I do have a brain and would like it to grow:eek:
 
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