True Sadism...

[desertslave]

Ok, this brought me back
(i'm a slow learner)
What is consent?
Take the earlier poster who got the extra five for tears. Suppose she didn't really want the five, but was afraid to say no, afraid to disappoint him. Yet he knows she doesn't want them.
Is that consent?
A cop comes to arrest me, i don't want to go to jail, but i'm afraid to run or shoot it out, so i raise my hands. Is that really consent or capitulation?
These are the blurred lines of bdsm.
If the Dom asks, "may i spank you five more times? The dynamics are blown to shit.
Nothing is only black or white.

This is quibbling just a bit, but the "take 5 more for me" tends to push me over that ragged edge; I'm not receiving them because of tears, but because it pleases him. If it happens to make me cry, that seems to turn him on even more.

I consented to this and many other aspects of our relationship when I became His. It's very possible that I might not want those extra five, right in the moment, but that's largely irrelevant. He leads, I follow. The rest is spectator overthink.

 

[pensivepoet]

If you read my post carefully, i didn't speak for you or your circumstances. I used the outline of your post and then said, "suppose"
My point being sadism and consensual can mean different things to different people and depending on the exact context.
I for instance, prefer to be a no limits sub~for which i've been blasted here on lit.
I carefully find someone i feel i can trust fully and have a grasp on what they want and need, and then i consent my will on limits to them. My choice
If they go five over what i really want, well, that's what i consented to.
But a lawyer might argue it differently.
Again, the American soldier says the German soldier surrendered.
The German soldier laughs and says, "yeah, like I really had a choice!"
And sadism seems to have different levels to different people as well, so I say defining a "true sadist" is in the eyes of the beholder, an open ended question.
I was merely using the consensual topic as an example to make the point.
Oh, and before i get blasted again, the reason for my no limits?
Because i will always say that limits turn control over to the sub.
"yes, you can spank me, but only six times and not very hard"
Bullshit
For me it's all about control, and i choose to relinquish that.
But i'm very careful as to whose dungeon i'm going into.
I don't just throw a dart
Now i'm gettin the hell out of here before the stone throwers wake up.
Rocks are my hard limit

 

[All_4_Love]

Because i will always say that limits turn control over to the sub.
"yes, you can spank me, but only six times and not very hard"
Bullshit
For me it's all about control, and i choose to relinquish that.

Hear, hear.

Now i'm gettin the hell out of here before the stone throwers wake up.
Rocks are my hard limit

I'll take some rock hits for you.

 

[SpunThings]

Well, yes. But on the other hand, unless you enjoy futilely banging your head against the wall, you're not going to want to take time and work to get to know people that you know from the get-go you're not going to be compatible with. So it's kind of a balancing game, I think. Maybe. In theory.

I have no idea how relationships work.

I agree that it's about balance. I am certainly not suggesting that we throw out all labels. They are useful and important, but there does become a point where it goes too far and it's more valuable to discuss ourselves as individuals rather than hyper-focusing on specific labels.

 

[Netzach]

Hm.

I don't care in my fantasy life, internal drives, and internal life, what the recipient thinks about the maltreatment I want to give out. (Much of my kink is mental and goes into fucking someone up emotionally/mentally, but physically works well sometimes too.)

Because I understand that this is not best practices as a human in a society, I limit myself to people who I can have a conversation with and get onto a page with and who want to visit this fucked up vacationland with me and who are smart enough to understand what they're going to see and experience. I guess I'm blessed with mild enough drives not to be full-blown socio, but pushing the empathy switch into the OFF position is very enticing stuff when I've had the stars align well to allow it. The more romantic I feel about you, the less likely it is we're going to be able to do this, so I need a dry, intense, cerebral relationship with the other person.

Also I don't define as a clinical sadist, because I don't NEED this train of thought to get off every or most of the time. Just some of the time it feels necessary on some other level.

Limits don't particularly ruin this experience for me either. The existence of needing to avoid foul balls doesn't diminish the home run.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Etoile]

Hm.

I don't care in my fantasy life, internal drives, and internal life, what the recipient thinks about the maltreatment I want to give out. (Much of my kink is mental and goes into fucking someone up emotionally/mentally, but physically works well sometimes too.)

Because I understand that this is not best practices as a human in a society, I limit myself to people who I can have a conversation with and get onto a page with and who want to visit this fucked up vacationland with me and who are smart enough to understand what they're going to see and experience. I guess I'm blessed with mild enough drives not to be full-blown socio, but pushing the empathy switch into the OFF position is very enticing stuff when I've had the stars align well to allow it. The more romantic I feel about you, the less likely it is we're going to be able to do this, so I need a dry, intense, cerebral relationship with the other person.

Also I don't define as a clinical sadist, because I don't NEED this train of thought to get off every or most of the time. Just some of the time it feels necessary on some other level.

Limits don't particularly ruin this experience for me either. The existence of needing to avoid foul balls doesn't diminish the home run.

Damn, I like you.

 

[All_4_Love]

He said as well as liking it, part of what he likes is that I dislike it.

Perhaps it is the “true” sociopath that creates the confusion and not the “true” sadist in these types of discussions. It is a lack of the “empathy switch”, and not the desire for an unwilling victim, that creates the person whose intentional prey is a “true” unwilling victim.

It is clear that both the sadist and the sociopath posses this desire.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Netzach]

Perhaps.


I've been thinking .

Netzach, you explain this is hardest for you to do in a romantic relationship. May I ask then you identify as primarily a Sadist? I cannot imagine having primary expression of self that I couldn't 'be' in a romantic relationship, unless one were to also be 'aromantic' ( I am not sure that is a real word) .

It's secondary, but necessary, if that makes sense. My romantic partners don't fill that niche, but if no one and nothing did, I'd chew off my own foot in the trap after a while.

 

[Netzach]

Perhaps it is the “true” sociopath that creates the confusion and not the “true” sadist in these types of discussions. It is a lack of the “empathy switch”, and not the desire for an unwilling victim, that creates the person whose intentional prey is a “true” unwilling victim.

It is clear that both the sadist and the sociopath posses this desire.

Not sure. Some may go out of the way looking to inflict extra distress, some won't care either way, and some won't be able to read the other anyhow and overlay their enjoyment onto the other person. You bottom types are always under the impression that you're that important (j/k)

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Netzach]

Damn, I like you.

Too much of that and I'll be upset if you scream, missy.

 

[midwestyankee]

Too much of that and I'll be upset if you scream, missy.

Can I watch? This has so many boxes checked I'd be in heaven.

 

[Primalex]

Can I watch? This has so many boxes checked I'd be in heaven.

Seriously, is your favorite porn site down the last few weeks? There is not a single thread that is safe from your sexual innuendo recently; you are about to look like one of those "look at me"-bi-subbie-boys.

 

[Primalex]

What is it about inflicting pain that you enjoy?

Sadists don't care about pain. Sadists want to see you suffer. Pain is not the same as suffering. Suffering comes from the mind and the mind holds on to it way after the physical sensation. Suffering is the little voice in your mind that tells you that you deserve the pain and have no right to escape.

 

[SpunThings]

Sadists don't care about pain. Sadists want to see you suffer. Pain is not the same as suffering. Suffering comes from the mind and the mind holds on to it way after the physical sensation. Suffering is the little voice in your mind that tells you that you deserve the pain and have no right to escape.

I think I agree with you there. My husband gets quite confused on those rare moments when I'm really tolerant of pain, and really craving it, and soaking it up. He much prefers the distress and suffering.

 

[SpunThings]

Hm.

I don't care in my fantasy life, internal drives, and internal life, what the recipient thinks about the maltreatment I want to give out. (Much of my kink is mental and goes into fucking someone up emotionally/mentally, but physically works well sometimes too.)

Because I understand that this is not best practices as a human in a society, I limit myself to people who I can have a conversation with and get onto a page with and who want to visit this fucked up vacationland with me and who are smart enough to understand what they're going to see and experience. I guess I'm blessed with mild enough drives not to be full-blown socio, but pushing the empathy switch into the OFF position is very enticing stuff when I've had the stars align well to allow it. The more romantic I feel about you, the less likely it is we're going to be able to do this, so I need a dry, intense, cerebral relationship with the other person.

Also I don't define as a clinical sadist, because I don't NEED this train of thought to get off every or most of the time. Just some of the time it feels necessary on some other level.

Limits don't particularly ruin this experience for me either. The existence of needing to avoid foul balls doesn't diminish the home run.

Thank you for writing this because it explains why I have sadistic fantasies, but could never play them out with my husband. I would need to turn off that empathy switch. I'm not sure I'd ever feel comfortable letting myself do that. Although it's never come up so who knows. Fortunately I don't feel a need for it. It's kind of like, I like ice cream but am fine without it.

 

[SpunThings]

This helps me understand more than anything else so far. Thank you. I hope it helps OP somewhat. It certainly furthers discussion.


Interesting conversation with G last night after this. About something he likes and I dislike. He said as well as liking it, part of what he likes is that I dislike it. This is something that surprised me. I suppose this is a 'sadistic' act ? Surprising someone I would have said was the least sadistic person I had met. Always interesting to be surprised by someone you know so well. I'm now contemplating how it impacts on how I feel about the act.

This is what my husband is like. He stops short of anything that might make me not want to be around him. I'm not bothered by these things that he does because I never feel too annoyed by them. I'm getting attention, and he's getting the reactions he so enjoys. He just so happens to be also getting his own enjoyment from it.

Very early in our relationship we were cuddling on my bed. He moved in such a way that I almost fell off and he caught me. He laughed, and I playfully admonished him. He did it again a couple of times. At the time I wouldn't have said he was sadistic, but looking back on that memory it was totally there all the time. Somehow he always knows how to not go over the edge into pissing me off.

 

[sprincess1990]

OP Response

Wow...

I can't believe how many people have chipped in with this!

I wanted to drop a quick note just to say thanks. I love the Lit community. So many different opinions, but such rich conversation!

I'm going to take some time tomorrow night to comment on a few of the different posts, and maybe ask a few more questions of you guys if that's okay, but I'd rather do that when I can get to my computer.

In the mean time... What's really fascinated me how diverse the definition of sadism seems to be. I guess maybe it's justified that I was a little confused, when it seems as a whole, we don't all completely agree on what the definition of sadism is to begin with.

The other thing that really struck me, especially with some of the earlier comments, is that a few people talked about how sadism gives them a feeling of control... And it's that control they enjoy. I've got to throw out there then... Is that really sadism? Or is it just a desire to be in control? Could you get the same buzz from restraining someone and causing them immense pleasure instead? Is a sadist really a sadist if pain is just a tool, rather than the ultimate goal?

Hmm... Anwers on a post card and I'll be back tomorrow!

Again, thank you so much for this discussion. It's awesome!!

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[SpunThings]

This is restricted to this one thing. I'd say I dislike it because of a power dynamic / control issue. It falls a LONG way short of me not wanting to be around him. Its simply that I don't like it. Its maybe the only thing I'll pout about and mean it.

I do things like that to Corey, and I'm the s-type! It falls short of him telling me to outright stop (because he could and I'd listen...even regardless of any D/s dynamic), but I know he really doesn't like it. He hates when I poke him in the side, and yes he does pout. I don't have any clue why he lets me still do it!

I suspect all couples have one or two things like this.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[SpunThings]

I agree,and compromise and sucking up is part of meeting half way I think. It was more that G said he liked that I didn't like it that surprised me....rather than the compromise of the act which I agree is a 'normal couple thing'

You make a good point. I don't do it because he dislikes it, I do it despite the fact that he dislikes it.

 

[midwestyankee]

Seriously, is your favorite porn site down the last few weeks? There is not a single thread that is safe from your sexual innuendo recently; you are about to look like one of those "look at me"-bi-subbie-boys.

Have you had your reading comprehension checked lately? There's not a single word of innuendo in this post. Mostly, I just put it out there quite plainly.