True Sadism...

[pensivepoet]

Says who?

Yeah, i was gonna say that, but then decided to let it go.
And my point of the car emblem was simply to say that calling ourselves something, isn't definitive proof that we are such.
But it was my mistake. I was unaware that TRUE SADISM, as discussed here, had to be restricted to the confines of bdsm.
I should've read the fine print

 

[IrisAlthea]

I think the comment about the size of the bass was, and the suggestion that people who identify as sadists in BDSM are just dominants trying to show off.

I read that more like a comment on the fact that the term used so differently depending on context.
I may be wrong of course.

 

[Etoile]

I don't know what else we're talking about in BDSM Talk if not BDSM. I feel like we should be talking about the many different kinds of apples - Fuji, Gala, Red Delicious - rather than talking about oranges. Talk about oranges on a message board about oranges, there's too much arguing to be done about the merits of different apples to clutter up the discussion with it.

I may also be a cranky old fart, YMMV.

 

[pensivepoet]

It was a poor analogy on my part, and i surely meant not to glorify patholigical sadism in all aspects of a person's being.
It's just the labels bdsm has been stuck with.
After dominant, the next step up the ladder seems to be sadist (sado/masochism)
But as seems to have been already declared, bdsm sensual sadist and true sadist are not the same.
I retract the bass comment and withdraw from the discussion.
Carry on

 

[midwestyankee]

Yeah, i was gonna say that, but then decided to let it go.
And my point of the car emblem was simply to say that calling ourselves something, isn't definitive proof that we are such.
But it was my mistake. I was unaware that TRUE SADISM, as discussed here, had to be restricted to the confines of bdsm.
I should've read the fine print

To return to the question that was ACTUALLY raised in the first post:

More recently I've been looking into the sadist/masochist element of BDSM. What's really interested me is how uncommon it is to talk to someone who considers themselves a true sadist. Someone who genuinely takes pleasure in inflicting actual bodily pain on another person. I've met plenty of Dom/me s who enjoy being in control... Plenty who enjoy humiliation... But I'm not sure I've really spoken to someone who enjoys genuine, controlled infliction of pain on another person.

I don't really know yet if I'm actually masochistic or whether it's something that just intrigues me... But I'm interested in understanding whether sadism is common in BDSM and I just happen to have not spoken to the right people, or if it's actually just more of a common misconception of the BDSM lifestyle, and a more unusual element...​

To get into a pissing contest over whether the discussion is about sadistic practices within the context of a BDSM relationship or non-BDSM sadistic practices is not only moot, but counter-productive.

If not the fine print, you could at least have re-read the original post and considered putting your own remarks into the context of the thread's purpose

 

[butterfly_flip]

It was a poor analogy on my part, and i surely meant not to glorify patholigical sadism in all aspects of a person's being.
It's just the labels bdsm has been stuck with.
After dominant, the next step up the ladder seems to be sadist (sado/masochism)
But as seems to have been already declared, bdsm sensual sadist and true sadist are not the same.
I retract the bass comment and withdraw from the discussion.
Carry on

Oh no, please stick around

 

[Etoile]

Oh no, please stick around

Agreed, just because I'm a cranky old fart doesn't mean anybody should leave.

 

[Etoile]

To get into a pissing contest over whether the discussion is about sadistic practices within the context of a BDSM relationship or non-BDSM sadistic practices is not only moot, but counter-productive.

Yay, I get to be counter-productive now!

 

[midwestyankee]

Yay, I get to be counter-productive now!

I didn't know you had taken work in cabinet making. How very cool of you.

 

[Primalex]

This board is about BDSM. You don't get to glorify a fucking mental illness over kink practices.

Fun fact of the day:
Until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness.

 

[midwestyankee]

Fun fact of the day:
Until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness.

Fun fact of the afternoon: 1974 was over 40 years ago.

 

[butterfly_flip]

Yeah, i was gonna say that, but then decided to let it go.
And my point of the car emblem was simply to say that calling ourselves something, isn't definitive proof that we are such.
But it was my mistake. I was unaware that TRUE SADISM, as discussed here, had to be restricted to the confines of bdsm.
I should've read the fine print

I inadvertently strayed from the intended narrative here too I think.

 

[Primalex]

Fun fact of the afternoon: 1974 was over 40 years ago.

Your ability to apply basic arithmetic operations on 4-digit numbers is astonishing.

 

[midwestyankee]

Your ability to apply basic arithmetic operations on 4-digit numbers is astonishing.

Thank you. Compliments are always welcome, no matter the source.

 

[pensivepoet]

Oh no, please stick around

I have bigger fish to fry
(wanna see the pic)
Ha!

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Etoile]

I suppose as a 'newcomer' to exploring this side of me this way, and for other younger, people, I think this discussion differences or acceptability of sadism within sexuality is important, and far from apples and oranges. Not everyone here has great experience and the difference and reasonable expectation is possibly a good thing to establish.

Fair enough. For me, it's about consent. That's the difference between "acceptable" sadism and "unacceptable" sadism in my book.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[pensivepoet]

Fair enough. For me, it's about consent. That's the difference between "acceptable" sadism and "unacceptable" sadism in my book.

Ok, this brought me back
(i'm a slow learner)
What is consent?
Take the earlier poster who got the extra five for tears. Suppose she didn't really want the five, but was afraid to say no, afraid to disappoint him. Yet he knows she doesn't want them.
Is that consent?
A cop comes to arrest me, i don't want to go to jail, but i'm afraid to run or shoot it out, so i raise my hands. Is that really consent or capitulation?
These are the blurred lines of bdsm.
If the Dom asks, "may i spank you five more times? The dynamics are blown to shit.
Nothing is only black or white.

 

[IlsaBlackbone]

1. there's no direct sensual reward to the sadist. No really, there isn't. You can argue... But. No.

2. Sadists have (perhaps deservedly) a terrible reputation. Not something anyone wants to share about themselves even if true, nor a label they want to take on.

I think those are two key points.

And you base your thesis on practical experience? Or a perusal of the psychiatric journals? Or?

I look at the mob in (pick a riot, I don't care). Sadists all. I read of Mandela's wife who reveled in her followers 'necklacing' recalcitrant members of black ghettos in SA who just didn't get it with the whole revolutionary jag. "But but - she's a saint!! She is the wife of The Mandela."

And so yes I agree with you to a point. Empty soulless vessels. No different from John Wayne Gacy or others.

And so in real regular life a person applies clips to another's nipples, or genitals. That is inflicting pain, no? Certainly not giving them a nice massage with a feather duster!! Heavens, there may be small contusions or gosh maybe bruising!! My. God. The inhumanity. You've bought your tickets to 50 Shades of Grey I assume?

Or wraps their surprisingly compliant male companions testicles with a leather strap - or sisal rope - or what have you. He's happy to comply. Bad bad sadist in your definition.

No comment I guess when a man enters a woman who is lacking vaginal lubrication and hence feels some pain - some discomfort - some tearing of tissues. Oh no. Natural. Nature intended it to be this way.

Here let me absolve you of all pain and suffering. Leave Lit - no more posts. No more looking at those nasty terrible pictures of people who darn it all need to be saved from their awful horrible need to suffer so.

Go. Feel pure. Feel free.

 

[BiBunny]

I think the point that people are trying to make is that it doesn't matter that much what we think "sadism" is in the context of answering the OP's question. She's the one who asked the question, "Why are there not many true sadists?" And if we're going to even hope to give her any decent answers, we're going to need to know what her definition of a "true sadist" is.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think the point that people are trying to make is that it doesn't matter that much what we think "sadism" is in the context of answering the OP's question. She's the one who asked the question, "Why are there not many true sadists?" And if we're going to even hope to give her any decent answers, we're going to need to know what her definition of a "true sadist" is.

This is the closest thing we have so far:
"Someone who genuinely takes pleasure in inflicting actual bodily pain on another person."
"But I'm not sure I've really spoken to someone who enjoys genuine, controlled infliction of pain on another person."

Given that all her searching has been within the BDSM community, I think it's reasonable to think that she has consensual sado-masochism in mind, but until she returns and sees that we're interested in more clarity, we won't be 100% certain.

 

[BiBunny]

This is the closest thing we have so far:
"Someone who genuinely takes pleasure in inflicting actual bodily pain on another person."
"But I'm not sure I've really spoken to someone who enjoys genuine, controlled infliction of pain on another person."

Given that all her searching has been within the BDSM community, I think it's reasonable to think that she has consensual sado-masochism in mind, but until she returns and sees that we're interested in more clarity, we won't be 100% certain.

Yep.

When I made the "Sociopaths? Serial killers?" comment earlier in the thread, I was being mildly facetious. (I know, surprise, surprise. ) But I am interested to know what counts as a "true sadist" in the mind of the OP in the context of consensual sadomasochism (like you said). Is it somebody who only wants to cause pain that the other person is, like, super-ecstatic to receive? Or is it someone whose enjoyment of causing pain is independent of the amount of pleasure the other person gets out of it?

For me--though I wouldn't use the word "true" because we know what that causes around here--I'd say that the former is what people tend to call "sensual sadists" and the latter is probably what I'd say is a...shit, I'm blanking on coming up with a better word than "true" here. And in my experience, you do see way more of the former than the latter.

But, anyway, my own thoughts on the subject don't really matter in regards to answering the OP's question. So that's why I was asking.

 

[SpunThings]

Yep.

When I made the "Sociopaths? Serial killers?" comment earlier in the thread, I was being mildly facetious. (I know, surprise, surprise. ) But I am interested to know what counts as a "true sadist" in the mind of the OP in the context of consensual sadomasochism (like you said). Is it somebody who only wants to cause pain that the other person is, like, super-ecstatic to receive? Or is it someone whose enjoyment of causing pain is independent of the amount of pleasure the other person gets out of it?

For me--though I wouldn't use the word "true" because we know what that causes around here--I'd say that the former is what people tend to call "sensual sadists" and the latter is probably what I'd say is a...shit, I'm blanking on coming up with a better word than "true" here. And in my experience, you do see way more of the former than the latter.

But, anyway, my own thoughts on the subject don't really matter in regards to answering the OP's question. So that's why I was asking.

I feel like part of the problem with this whole thing is that people try to find a category or a label to fit what they're looking for, when all they're really looking for is someone compatible with them. There are categories, and sub categories, and sub-sub categories, and no one ever agrees in detail really on what they mean. It's not as easy as finding the right label for what you're looking for, and broadcasting, but I feel like many people think it is. It takes time and work to get to know people and see if you mesh enough to be happy together.

 

[BiBunny]

I feel like part of the problem with this whole thing is that people try to find a category or a label to fit what they're looking for, when all they're really looking for is someone compatible with them. There are categories, and sub categories, and sub-sub categories, and no one ever agrees in detail really on what they mean. It's not as easy as finding the right label for what you're looking for, and broadcasting, but I feel like many people think it is. It takes time and work to get to know people and see if you mesh enough to be happy together.

Well, yes. But on the other hand, unless you enjoy futilely banging your head against the wall, you're not going to want to take time and work to get to know people that you know from the get-go you're not going to be compatible with. So it's kind of a balancing game, I think. Maybe. In theory.

I have no idea how relationships work.