Rosemary’s Baby

[EmilyMiller]

We watched this recently. Have been in a Halloween mood. I have seen it before, probably as a teen. I was struck how it’s actually really bad. Aside from the obvious and appalling issues, I used to quite like Polanski, Chinatown is something I feel guilty about still enjoying. But…

The acting seemed off. The script stilted. And worst of all (no not the satanic rape) was it seemed to be a poor allegory of what Ira Levin thought might be a woman’s worries and insecurities about having her first child.

I didn’t get any of that on the first viewing (which was admittedly a while ago).

Is it just me and it’s really a masterpiece?

Em

 

[ElectricBlue]

We watched this recently. Have been in a Halloween mood. I have seen it before, probably as a teen. I was struck how it’s actually really bad. Aside from the obvious and appalling issues, I used to quite like Polanski, Chinatown is something I feel guilty about still enjoying. But…

The acting seemed off. The script stilted. And worst of all (no not the satanic rape) was it seemed to be a poor allegory of what Ira Levin thought might be a woman’s worries and insecurities about having her first child.

I didn’t get any of that on the first viewing (which was admittedly a while ago).

Is it just me and it’s really a masterpiece?

Em

It shows its age, for sure. But to be fair, most 1968 or 1969 releases (whenever it was) do that.

The problem, fifty-five years on, is to understand any movie in the context of its release, knowing what was going on in other movies of the same era. That's not easy for you young-uns, because it was so different. No VCR, no CD or DVD. My town had two TV channels - ABC, the national broadcaster, and a commercial channel. That was it. One am radio station, and at night, if you were lucky, you might get a Sydney am station. FM arrived mid seventies iirc.

Movies of the late sixties, first half of the seventies were my Friday night high school entertainment. The local cinema showed a PG or M rated double bill Thursday - Saturday, an art movie double bill on Sunday, and a M or R rated double bill Monday - Wednesday.

Rosemary's Baby was a stand-out at the time, mainly because of the psychological terror of Rosemary, wondering what on earth was going on. Similar movie: Ken Russell's The Devils (very controversial, but then anything by Ken Russell had controversy - a nun masturbating with a crucifix will catch someone's attention, even now).

I don't think RB is a "masterpiece", not by a long shot, more a "milestone" in cinema.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I've never seen it. Not a fan of horror movies. Some old ones are pretty cheesy, but they were doing their best with the tech and budget at hand. I don't know what people think of it now, it is well known, but it probably was just another run of the mill movie back then. I mean... the Mustang was everyday traffic, now you're paying at least 10k for a rolling shell-- so there's that.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It shows its age, for sure. But to be fair, most 1968 or 1969 releases (whenever it was) do that.

The problem, fifty-five years on, is to understand any movie in the context of its release, knowing what was going on in other movies of the same era. That's not easy for you young-uns, because it was so different. No VCR, no CD or DVD. My town had two TV channels - ABC, the national broadcaster, and a commercial channel. That was it. One am radio station, and at night, if you were lucky, you might get a Sydney am station. FM arrived mid seventies iirc.

Movies of the late sixties, first half of the seventies were my Friday night high school entertainment. The local cinema showed a PG or M rated double bill Thursday - Saturday, an art movie double bill on Sunday, and a M or R rated double bill Monday - Wednesday.

Rosemary's Baby was a stand-out at the time, mainly because of the psychological terror of Rosemary, wondering what on earth was going on. Similar movie: Ken Russell's The Devils (very controversial, but then anything by Ken Russell had controversy - a nun masturbating with a crucifix will catch someone's attention, even now).

I don't think RB is a "masterpiece", not by a long shot, more a "milestone" in cinema.

But I love other vaguely contemporary movies.

Chinatown (1974)

Rear Window (1954)

The Seventh Seal (1957)

Vertigo (1958)

Rashomon (1950)

Tokyo Story (1953)

And ones from much earlier:

Casablanca (1942)

Springtime in a Small Town (1948)

Em

 

[lovecraft68]

Good or not, the movie was directed by an animal who raped a teenage girl and fled the country and has to stay away or go to jail.

I love how all the Hollywood metoo supporters can be seen giving him a standing ovation when the academy gave a rapist an award.

If you support the movie, you support him.

Be proud.

 

[EmilyMiller]

But I love other vaguely contemporary movies.

Chinatown (1974)

Rear Window (1954)

The Seventh Seal (1957)

Vertigo (1958)

Rashomon (1950)

Tokyo Story (1953)

And ones from much earlier:

Casablanca (1942)

Springtime in a Small Town (1948)

Em

Oh and - d’oh! - from the same year:

2002 A Space Odyssey

Em

 

[ElectricBlue]

But I love other vaguely contemporary movies.

Chinatown (1974)

Rear Window (1954)

The Seventh Seal (1957)

Vertigo (1958)

Rashomon (1950)

Tokyo Story (1953)

And ones from much earlier:

Casablanca (1942)

Springtime in a Small Town (1948)

Em

There you go, a cineast!

I guess I was talking more about the whole social context, of any movie.

Yes, those are all masterpieces, Film as a high art. Rosemary's Baby isn't in the same league. Polanski's Repulsion is better, the one with Catherine Deneuve.

And I was thinking of Belle de Jour, also with Deneuve, directed by Luis Bunuel.

And 2001, obviously. For me, #1 of the twentieth century.

 

[Euphony]

And 2001, obviously. For me, #1 of the twentieth century.

Will never forget the mindf*ck of experiencing 2001 when it first came out on the new HD-DVD, trying to square how it was shot lifetimes ago in cinema terms.

 

[EmilyMiller]

There you go, a cineast!

I guess I was talking more about the whole social context, of any movie.

Yes, those are all masterpieces, Film as a high art. Rosemary's Baby isn't in the same league. Polanski's Repulsion is better, the one with Catherine Deneuve.

And I was thinking of Belle de Jour, also with Deneuve, directed by Luis Bunuel.

And 2001, obviously. For me, #1 of the twentieth century.

I’d left French cinema off my list - I thought I was being pretentious enough as it was .

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

But I love other vaguely contemporary movies.

Chinatown (1974)

Rear Window (1954)

The Seventh Seal (1957)

Vertigo (1958)

Rashomon (1950)

Tokyo Story (1953)

And ones from much earlier:

Casablanca (1942)

Springtime in a Small Town (1948)

Em

I'm seriously chafing at your describing any of those movies other than Chinatown as "vaguely contemporary" of Rosemary's Baby. A movie from the 50s is in no way a contemporary of Rosemary's Baby in any sense whatsoever. The 60s were a cultural watershed and by the late-60s everything was different from what came before the mid-60s.

I thought Rosemary's Baby was OK. It had its good points, but it was no Chinatown, which was a masterpiece and one of the best movies ever made.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm seriously chafing at your describing any of those movies other than Chinatown as "vaguely contemporary" of Rosemary's Baby. A movie from the 50s is in no way a contemporary of Rosemary's Baby in any sense whatsoever. The 60s were a cultural watershed and by the late-60s everything was different from what came before the mid-60s.

I thought Rosemary's Baby was OK. It had its good points, but it was no Chinatown, which was a masterpiece and one of the best movies ever made.

I guess it depends which year you are looking back from .

The 50s and 60s aren’t massively distinct for me. Sorry .

Em

 

[Euphony]

I’d left French cinema off my list - I thought I was being pretentious enough as it was .

Em

Real cineassholes know Iranian cinema is how you peacock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Iran

 

[lc69hunter]

We watched this recently. Have been in a Halloween mood. I have seen it before, probably as a teen. I was struck how it’s actually really bad. Aside from the obvious and appalling issues, I used to quite like Polanski, Chinatown is something I feel guilty about still enjoying. But…

The acting seemed off. The script stilted. And worst of all (no not the satanic rape) was it seemed to be a poor allegory of what Ira Levin thought might be a woman’s worries and insecurities about having her first child.

I didn’t get any of that on the first viewing (which was admittedly a while ago).

Is it just me and it’s really a masterpiece?

Em

As a preacher's kid, we didn't have a TV and were not allowed to go to the movies. That was the very first movie I ever saw, and it freaked me out. Like you, I do not think it would still have the same effect on me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Real cineassholes know Iranian cinema is how you peacock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Iran

View attachment 2286561

I can’t claim to have ever watched an Iranian movie. South Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Swedish, yes. But no Iranian.

Em

 

[Euphony]

I can’t claim to have ever watched an Iranian movie. South Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Swedish, yes. But no Iranian.

Em

Worth seeking out.

As you can imagine, themes are often exploration of gender dynamics and how societal "norms" and lived home life diverge.

How women extract every drop of power they can and the real negotiations couples have (but men are ashamed to admit to the true level of compromise they engage in) is fascinating stuff.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Worth seeking out.

As you can imagine, themes are often exploration of gender dynamics and how societal "norms" and lived home life diverge.

How women extract every drop of power they can and the real negotiations couples have (but men are ashamed to admit to the true level of compromise they engage in) is fascinating stuff.

Any recommendations?

Em

 

[ElectricBlue]

Will never forget the mindf*ck of experiencing 2001 when it first came out on the new HD-DVD, trying to square how it was shot lifetimes ago in cinema terms.

I was lucky enough to see 2001 on a giant curved screen with a 70mm projection, stereo sound. Sitting in the right place, where you could see nothing but the screen, it was just about three dimensional.

On its tenth anniversary release in 1978 - tag line: "There may be Star Wars, but there was, and always will be, 2001: A Space Odyssey." Stanley's way of saying, there may be pretenders to the throne, but my film is the benchmark.

I struggle, seeing it on a TV sized screen. 35mm in a cinema is bad enough.

 

[Euphony]

A Separation is a common starting point. It's West-y enough to feel familiar so you can focus on layers (tho, if your diet is as you say, you prob don't need the long runway it offers)

Persepolis is my Iran adjacent favorite by a mile. GREAT graphic novel. Movie does it justice (but is not a substitute) Music, art, family, feeling of "home," individualism. Lovely film through and through.



You can google list. It really is diverse cinema so you can chase particular moods (though, I don't know much abt International horror.)

You are your best navigator. I just throw it to people b/c it comes as a bit of a surprise when you mention there's a history and currency of great Iranian cinema.

 

[Euphony]

I was lucky enough to see 2001 on a giant curved screen with a 70mm projection, stereo sound. Sitting in the right place, where you could see nothing but the screen, it was just about three dimensional.

Christ man, that's AWESOME.

I'm jealous but glad you had the experience so I can live vicariously.

 

[EmilyMiller]

A Separation is a common starting point. It's West-y enough to feel familiar so you can focus on layers (tho, if your diet is as you say, you prob don't need the long runway it offers)

Persepolis is my Iran adjacent favorite by a mile. GREAT graphic novel. Movie does it justice (but is not a substitute) Music, art, family, feeling of "home," individualism. Lovely film through and through.

View attachment 2286569

You can google list. It really is diverse cinema so you can chase particular moods (though, I don't know much abt International horror.)

You are your best navigator. I just throw it to people b/c it comes as a bit of a surprise when you mention there's a history and currency of great Iranian cinema.

Thanks - will have to explore.

Em

 

[TadOverdon]

Being a great piece of cinema doesn't protect a work from becoming dated.

It's a horror film, and I still find it scarier than anything new that I'm encountering. It's stark and indirect.

 

[LilyWaters]

We watched this recently. Have been in a Halloween mood. I have seen it before, probably as a teen. I was struck how it’s actually really bad. Aside from the obvious and appalling issues, I used to quite like Polanski, Chinatown is something I feel guilty about still enjoying. But…

The acting seemed off. The script stilted. And worst of all (no not the satanic rape) was it seemed to be a poor allegory of what Ira Levin thought might be a woman’s worries and insecurities about having her first child.

I didn’t get any of that on the first viewing (which was admittedly a while ago).

Is it just me and it’s really a masterpiece?

Em

I think it's in how you read the horror. It's less about the fear of having a baby, and more the reality of male control over women's bodies and sexuality. This theme would be analysed again in Levin's The Stepford Wives.

For example, at the time that the film was made, there was no such thing in the USA, legally speaking, as marital rape. If you were married to a man, he could rape you, and there was no legal recourse. Some states started passing laws against it in 1975, but it wasn't fully illegal in the US until 1993, which is just f*cking bananas.

The horror in the film, imho, doesn't come from the Satanic themes, although it did capitalize on those themes. Really you could argue there is nothing actually supernatural in the film that happens outside of Rosemary's dreams. The real horror is her neighbours and her husband, who co-opt her body for their own purposes. And she is told again and again by other people what to do, and at the end, she does it still. THAT'S the true horror. Yikes.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think it's in how you read the horror. It's less about the fear of having a baby, and more the reality of male control over women's bodies and sexuality. This theme would be analysed again in Levin's The Stepford Wives.

For example, at the time that the film was made, there was no such thing in the USA, legally speaking, as marital rape. If you were married to a man, he could rape you, and there was no legal recourse. Some states started passing laws against it in 1975, but it wasn't fully illegal in the US until 1993, which is just f*cking bananas.

The horror in the film, imho, doesn't come from the Satanic themes, although it did capitalize on those themes. Really you could argue there is nothing actually supernatural in the film that happens outside of Rosemary's dreams. The real horror is her neighbours and her husband, who co-opt her body for their own purposes. And she is told again and again by other people what to do, and at the end, she does it still. THAT'S the true horror. Yikes.

Oh, that makes sense. Maybe the context that others have been going on about.

Em

 

[JGittes]

For Iranian films, A Taste of Cherry is worth searching for.

 

[LilyWaters]

A Separation is a common starting point. It's West-y enough to feel familiar so you can focus on layers (tho, if your diet is as you say, you prob don't need the long runway it offers)

Persepolis is my Iran adjacent favorite by a mile. GREAT graphic novel. Movie does it justice (but is not a substitute) Music, art, family, feeling of "home," individualism. Lovely film through and through.

View attachment 2286569

You can google list. It really is diverse cinema so you can chase particular moods (though, I don't know much abt International horror.)

You are your best navigator. I just throw it to people b/c it comes as a bit of a surprise when you mention there's a history and currency of great Iranian cinema.

Agreed.