Fan Fiction corundum

[gunhilltrain]

I was born in '68 and have never even heard of this character, TV show, or novel. So I'd venture to say, a majority of LIT readers won't have either. This would allow for some pretty significant creative licenses to be made on the part of the writer. Which happens in fiction every day, in every medium. So the problem here is you. Not the rules.

Gee, Rob, the year of your birth doesn't absolve you of knowing what happened before that date.

From what has been described here, the novels might accurately be described as "pulp fiction." I mean, Philip Marlowe never had to run around Tijuana in just his underpants. To the OP: why don't you create your own female private eye and set it in whatever era you wish? Blackmail is not my favorite theme, but there is plenty of it on Lit. Anyway, there are other plots that could be done with this. It would be - interesting? - perhaps if she were bisexual and had both a boyfriend and a girlfriend who have met but don't know the details of each other.

See, I just gave you an idea to run with. Just don't name it - as one of the novels was - Honey On Her Tail.

 

[Wifetheif]

I'm NOT whining! I found places to post my fanfiction and the feedback has been nothing but positive. I COULD re-write it to be a generic female P.I. and I might but, it's fine as it is. My point was that how can we be true to the original characters if we can't write them the same way as the original authors?

 

[Rob_Royale]

My point was that how can we be true to the original characters if we can't write them the same way as the original authors?

The site owners don't care about being true to characters and they shouldn't. They care about keeping themselves free of liability. If the occasional creator gets stymied then that's the cost of doing business. It's not personal.

 

[Euphony]

My point was that how can we be true to the original characters if we can't write them the same way as the original authors?

You can't when it runs afoul of the sites content guidelines.

If I wanted to write the Dahmer murders in graphic detail "truthfully" (based on the court reports/FIA document releases, etc.) I *couldn't* b/c it violates the guidelines.

You seem to place artistic freedom/honesty/vision/whatever you want to call it, above the rules of the site.

It doesn't matter WHOSE vision we are violating (the original creator or your 2nd party attempts) it's that it IS violating.

That is top of the hierarchy so quibbling over lower considerations on the totem pole is fruitless.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Gee, Rob, the year of your birth doesn't absolve you of knowing what happened before that date.

From what has been described here, the novels might accurately be described as "pulp fiction." I mean, Philip Marlowe never had to run around Tijuana in just his underpants. To the OP: why don't you create your own female private eye and set it in whatever era you wish? Blackmail is not my favorite theme, but there is plenty of it on Lit. Anyway, there are other plots that could be done with this. It would be - interesting? - perhaps if she were bisexual and had both a boyfriend and a girlfriend who have met but don't know the details of each other.

See, I just gave you an idea to run with. Just don't name it - as one of the novels was - Honey On Her Tail.

I was born in 1989 and know who the fuck Honey West was, that she played by Anne Francis and was sexy as hell. Haven't you heard of retro TV this shit is all over. Much of it is on YouTube. Get with the program!

Actually, I know about it because of Dad. But he loved her!

 

[Euphony]

" Sir, you can't park in the fire lane."

" This car was given to me by my great grandfather. He escaped religious persecution coming to this country without a penny to his name..."

* fire truck siren sounds *

" ... With the labor of only his bare hands, he built a business that enriched not only our family but this entire community, providing jobs, goods, and visibility of our little hamlet to other businesses that would come here making this town the vibrant center it is today."

" No really. You need to move."

* hose unwinding and fire hydrant opening sounds *

" That you'd DARE insult his legacy by forcing removal of a part of his, this very TOWNS history, frankly boggles my mind."

* breaking rear window glass sounds *

 

[gunhilltrain]

The site owners don't care about being true to characters and they shouldn't. They care about keeping themselves free of liability. If the occasional creator gets stymied then that's the cost of doing business. It's not personal.

The character was created by a husband and wife team in 1957 and they kept going until 1971. (The wife as a fashion writer and editor, of all things, including for Women's Wear Daily.)

To the OP: you could argue that they or their heirs finding Literotica at this point are rather slim. But it's their site and they can do as they choose. Actually, maybe it's not so slim, since there were authorized works by other writers in 2011 and 2014. If you've already found places to publish it, why not go there?

 

[gunhilltrain]

I was born in 1989 and know who the fuck Honey West was, that she played by Anne Francis and was sexy as hell. Haven't you heard of retro TV this shit is all over. Much of it is on YouTube. Get with the program!

Actually, I know about it because of Dad. But he loved her!

I thought it was obvious that I was joshing with him. The show only ran for one season, thirty episodes, and I never saw it. And at that time I would watch anything on TV as long as the device was turned on.

P.S.: Anne Francis passed at the age of 80 in 2011.

 

[SimonDoom]

Since Honey West is not a real-life person, maybe her character is viewed as being copyrighted?

According to the US.Copyright Office:

"Thus a drawing, picture, depiction, or written description of a character can be registered for copyright. Protection does not, however, extend to the title or general theme for a cartoon or comic strip, the general idea or name for characters depicted, or their intangible attributes."

I think that's exactly how the site would see it, and as for characters created by Literotica authors, I assume the site would take an expansive view of the copyright protection given to the character and the work as a whole.

From what I understand, the site will allow some fanfic, subject to certain rules, based on copyrighted stories or characters in those stories by famous authors. But it won't allow fanfic based on the works of Lit authors.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Since Honey West is not a real-life person, maybe her character is viewed as being copyrighted?

According to the US.Copyright Office:

"Thus a drawing, picture, depiction, or written description of a character can be registered for copyright. Protection does not, however, extend to the title or general theme for a cartoon or comic strip, the general idea or name for characters depicted, or their intangible attributes."

Copyright on characters gets murky, comics in particular. The Gaiman v. McFarlane decision ruled that Gaiman shared copyright in a character even though his contribution was more "general idea"/"intangible attributes" than the actual published depiction of that character, and to some degree I think it contradicts what that USCO quote might suggest:

Gaiman could not copyright a character described merely as an unexpectedly knowledgeable old wino, that is true;  but that is not his claim.   He claims to be the joint owner of the copyright on a character that has a specific name and a specific appearance.   Cogliostro's age, obviously phony title (“Count”), what he knows and says, his name, and his faintly Mosaic facial features combine to create a distinctive character.   No more is required for a character copyright.

Although Gaiman's verbal description of Cogliostro may well have been of a stock character, once he was drawn and named and given speech he became sufficiently distinctive to be copyrightable.   Gaiman's contribution may not have been copyrightable by itself, but his contribution had expressive content without which Cogliostro wouldn't have been a character at all, but merely a drawing.

Probably the bottom line for Lit purposes is that if the Literotica policies refer to "copyrighted characters" then presumably they believe it's possible for other authors' characters to be protected.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I thought it was obvious that I was joshing with him. The show only ran for one season, thirty episodes, and I never saw it. And at that time I would watch anything on TV as long as the device was turned on.

P.S.: Anne Francis passed at the age of 80 in 2011.

Thanks for schooling me. I thought it was obvious I was ribbing you! Perhaps, the lack of emoticons was the confusion.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Thanks for schooling me. I thought it was obvious I was ribbing you! Perhaps, the lack of emoticons was the confusion.

I've noticed that even with all the emoticons, it's still difficult to tell when people are joshing and when they are being serious. A daunting thought: it sounds weird, but I think sometimes, maybe without even realizing it, people are doing both at the same time. I seem to be getting tripped up by that more and more recently.

I thought that this is Shakespeare, but versions show up both before and after him.

"Don't be angry with this fellow, I protest
That many a true word hath been spoke in jest."

 

[XerXesXu]

Copyright on characters gets murky, comics in particular. The Gaiman v. McFarlane decision ruled that Gaiman shared copyright in a character even though his contribution was more "general idea"/"intangible attributes" than the actual published depiction of that character, and to some degree I think it contradicts what that USCO quote might suggest:

Not really. It was decided, following a finding of fact by the jury at trial, that Gaiman and Mcfarlane had collaborated, following an agreement to collaborate, in the creation of the graphically depicted character. Both co-owned the copyright. The case was about when the 3-year limit for infringement proceedings time started to run against Gaiman, ie when was he first put on notice that McFarlane was denying their joint copyright?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I suspect that it was all about the money, not the creativity being stolen. The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil.

Not really. It was decided, following a finding of fact by the jury at trial, that Gaiman and Mcfarlane had collaborated, following an agreement to collaborate, in the creation of the graphically depicted character. Both co-owned the copyright. The case was about when the 3-year limit for infringement proceedings time started to run against Gaiman, ie when was he first put on notice that McFarlane was denying their joint copyright?

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I tried to post a fanfiction about Honey West. It was rejected because L.com does not publish fan fiction involving blackmail. The thing is, that is kind of the point of her character in the novels! In the books, Honey is blackmailed or forced into nudity all the time! One novel opens with a thug entering Honey's office and forcing her to strip to the skin at gunpoint before being coerced into a Marine uniform complete with Uncle Sam-issued female military underwear! In another, she's sidetracked in a Tijuana brothel, drugged, disarmed, and stripped down. She barely escapes in just a pair of panties. In another she finds herself roped into a game of strip poker with three guys while she is wearing only a daring one-piece bathing suit. You get the idea. Blackmail and coercion are basically default modes for the character. Eliminating that from her adventures makes as much sense as eliminating Tarzan his vines and loincloth. I realized that there was no way I could re-write my story and have it resemble anything like my original vision or anything like the novel's character, so I found some other places to post it What is the point of this site offering the option of fan fiction if we can't be true to the character we are writing about?
The feedback on my Honey West story has been very good so I know L-dotters would enjoy it. What a pity.

This is what AO3 is for. Built from the ground up for fanfiction.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I suspect that it was all about the money, not the creativity being stolen. The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil.

...and the labourer is worthy of his hire.

 

[NotWise]

The geologist in me cringes every time I see the title on this thread. I've held my tongue until now, and I took a quick trip through the thread to see if it bothers anyone else. I seem to be alone.

It's "conundrum" not "corundum." Corundum is hexagonally-crystallized aluminum oxide. It's also ruby, sapphire, and the abrasive component of emery. A conundrum is a confusing or difficult question (per Merriam-Webster).

There. Maybe now I can stop gritting my teeth.

 

[Unblemished]

This is what AO3 is for. Built from the ground up for fanfiction.

This, the place was built from the ground up to allow basically anything. Not everything gets an audience, but it sure beats the old fanfic author days of worrying about threatening emails from Anne Rice and Marion Zimmer-Bradley (RIP to rice, Bradley can burn). There’s no guarantee a given series will have many readers, but the site rules are a lot looser because they’re designed for this stuff.

Lit just isn’t a fanfic-oriented site, best to go somewhere that is.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The geologist in me cringes every time I see the title on this thread. I've held my tongue until now, and I took a quick trip through the thread to see if it bothers anyone else. I seem to be alone.

Not just you. I was abstaining because I'm currently doing paid nitpicking work and didn't have the energy for pro bono, but I was thinking it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Not just you. I was abstaining because I'm currently doing paid nitpicking work and didn't have the energy for pro bono, but I was thinking it.

I'm dyslexic and tend to be forgiving on simple mispellings. Misspellings I mean. Without my corrective, and rose colored, dyslexia glasses i would have spelled it counndrum or conunrdum or something like that. LOL