D/s with children in the house

[Stella_Omega]

Nor do I, but I am willing to guarantee that she will keep looking for such a place. The need for affirmation is strong in this one.

Well... No one ever said that D/s was any kind of a Hallmark moment.

Although a lot of people have wished that it were.

 

[Ahlam]

Now that my kids are older (teenagers) I wonder how my D/s relationship with my husband will affect their perspective of relationships. I know D/s is not for everyone and do not instill any of our personal preferences/perceptions about the details/rituals of ours into my sons.

However:

They see me give Him first choice of everything.
They hear Him command me with a simple statement ("door" or "drink" or "shoes") and have for years watched me comply.
They hear Him address me as "girl" or "woman" and see me respond positively.
They see me kneeling at His feet with my head resting on His lap all the time.
They have seen him lead me around with his hand on the back of my neck.

And this is us putting effort into subtlety. I have two main concerns: that someday maybe one of my sons will come across a more dominant "independent" type woman, attempt to pull this stuff off and get punched in the face. OR that they will decide that our relationship is "bad" because he does not treat me as an equal. (One of them already alludes to this.)

Does anyone else have older kids? Just wondering how other people do it. I can't imagine us compromising any more than we already do- it would require an incredible amount of effort...

That incredible amount of effort you mentioned--Isn't that parenting in a nutshell? I'm a mother. My children have taught me that they are vastly more perceptive than I might initially believe. Do you feel it'd be inappropriate to give them a bit of credit and discuss this with them? If you're not willing to exert the effort to keep things on the down low, then it may be worth a shot.

Personally, I have chosen not bring D/s into my kids' day-to-day living. It would undermine my authority for starters (really, mutiny isn't always so far off), and it's not something I care to model. There are boundaries in my household that I refuse cross because I want to prepare my kids for the world as well as I can and I think D/s would be an unnecessary distraction for them. I do my best to be nothing less than strong, confident, and competent around them. If my significant other tried to treat me in the manner you described in front of the children, that person would be promptly severed from my life because I'm a 24/7 mom first. No days off. When they leave 'the nest,' then maybe I'll don the apron and pearls and play house.

 

[Dyslexicea]

I should probably not even respond to this thread, as I'm an outsider looking in. Not only am I not involved in a D/s relationship, although I'm exploring my submissive side, along with some other parts of the BDSM life style, I'm also not hetero.

I am married so I do qualify as a wife, we have two children both girls but not yet three. Even if we do integrate some of the D/s lifestyle into our life together we would never allow it to be so much so that it has an effect upon our children. I do not want my children to think that relationships are based on one person being a submissive wimp who jumps at the commands of an overbearing abusive domineering bitch or bastard as the case may be.

I know you think I'm implying your relationship is like that but I'm not. I realize that for a D/s relationship to work both partners have to enter as equals, each has their part to play, despite that, to someone on the outside, including your children, the above is how it appears. But it is also a part of your kink, it's part of your sex life even when it happens to be not in the bedroom, not that our sex lives are confined to our bedrooms. Don't tell me that it's not that way for you, at times just submitting does make you hot, does make you horny, does make you wet. It's just a lie to deny that it does.

What I really find is that because you lacked self control, good judgment or you just didn't think, you couldn't keep your kink separate from your life with your children. I'm assuming boys. You now have sons who look at women as being less than men, being servants to men and if a woman doesn't obey his will, he has a right to force it upon a her. Truth is your actions now are somewhat late you needed to take action sooner.

If your sons don't happen to end up in jail trying to force their will on to a woman, they're unlikely to find a happy relationship, even with a woman who is submissive because no matter how she wants to live, she wants her partner to treat her as his equal. Not only treat her that way but feel that way also. I'm assuming your relationship is this way. D/s, at least my understanding, is not Superior/inferior it's Equal/Equal. If we happen to decide D/s works for us it is going to be as equals although it may appear to some as Superior/inferior.

I don't believe it is too late. I think you and your husband need to talk to your teenagers, you need to be honest with them about your lifestyle. What it is and why it is, who you both are, why it works for both of you, not just some vague concept that not all women are like me. The kink(sex) part of it too, without the exact details. If I were you I'd also see they had counseling that does not include either one of you.

I think if you can make your children understand that no matter how your relationship looks to them, it's equal. Your husband does respects you, he does love you and because of those two reason you love being submissive to him. They need to understand and also except that most relationships are not like yours, that women are your sons equal and they need to treat women as such.

No matter what anyone says contrary, children are effected most by their parents relationship and each parent as individuals. In my case I didn't have a horrible impression of my parents relationship, if I'd have know the truth I may have but they both hid the bad from us.

I'm not saying we can't overcome bad examples(mistakes), or even bad parenting. Because of my Mother I did not want children, I was afraid I'd be just like her. If I was less submissive we wouldn't have any children but thank god we do have children. I love being mommy and I think I'm a good mother. Funny although not at all to my point if I'd have been hetero and married we'd be childless. I have no desire to be pregnant, I never well be pregnant, the very idea to me is repulsive. For me to have our child, for reason I won't go into, was Jessie's desire and I now realize that during most of our relationship I've been submissive to her will, something I would not have admitted five months ago, the one thing I would not do was carry a child. I'm just that flawed I suppose.

Don't think I'm condemning you, we are all human, we all make mistakes, I've made more than my share. I'm so weary of being condemned by society, by people who don't know me, who really don't care what happens to me but feel it's their right to judge me, and I refuse to judge you. I don't know you, I have no idea of who you are, of why you made the choices you've made. Sometimes no matter what others think we just have to live our lives as we see fit, sometimes it's even a matter of being alive or dead. It's obvious you are a good mother or you wouldn't be so concerned with what's right for your children. I hope all works out for you and your children. Good Luck!

One thing more. I've found the women and men on the BDSM board to be very nice and generous people. Almost always ready to help those who have concerns or questions. Not all of their postings are going to be to your liking but that is the way life is everywhere.

 

[Primalex]

I have two main concerns: that someday maybe one of my sons will come across a more dominant "independent" type woman, attempt to pull this stuff off and get punched in the face. OR that they will decide that our relationship is "bad" because he does not treat me as an equal.

I don't see the problem with either result. It is their right to learn things in real life and it is their right to judge your relationship.

(One of them already alludes to this.)

So, at least one of them is able to entertain an opinion that differs from yours. Sounds healthy to me. They learned that the call between "right" and "wrong" is not based upon family relationship.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't see the problem with either result. It is their right to learn things in real life and it is their right to judge your relationship.




So, at least one of them is able to entertain an opinion that differs from yours. Sounds healthy to me. They learned that the call between "right" and "wrong" is not based upon family relationship.

Yanno sometimes Primalex...you get the thing everyone else has missed, and you get it SO right.

OMG. I am impressed.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I don't see the problem with either result. It is their right to learn things in real life and it is their right to judge your relationship.

So, at least one of them is able to entertain an opinion that differs from yours. Sounds healthy to me. They learned that the call between "right" and "wrong" is not based upon family relationship.

THIS is an example of why I don't ignore you, Primalex. To reiterate my earlier example: Every so often, you toss in one of these gemstones that makes the digging through the mud and the muck worthwhile. This is one of them.

 

[social_morality]

THIS is an example of why I don't ignore you, Primalex. To reiterate my earlier example: Every so often, you toss in one of these gemstones that makes the digging through the mud and the muck worthwhile. This is one of them.

Exactly.

In my own opinion to the question, I think it all depends on the situation but in this case, the op should let the children know that not everyone is like her relationship and that this is simply what works for them and makes them happy, not something they expect for the kids to imitate or replicate.

 

[njlauren]

Hopefully the OP is still reading this, I thought I had something to add to this, on a number of levels, including having been in a D/s with kids when our child was young....(it was male (?)s,female dominant, but still). One of the things I disagree with is posters who say kids pick things up from sources other then parents, therefore it will diminish what the parents do, balance it out. There is truth to that, but it doesn't work like that in real life, the biggest influence on kids is at home, if it wasn't, therapists and such wouldn't be in business.....parents are the largest source of influence, and much of it is not taught, it is caught. The parents who tell kids the color of someone's skin doesn't matter, who when someone non white comes their way flinches or crosses the street, is going to be shocked to find out their kids are leery around non whites. What we say is often overshadowed by what we do. The kids of alcoholics learn things that no amount of visions of the outside is going to change, the child who grows up in an abusive household often recreates the abuse with their own kids....it is why parents have to be cautious.

I am not concerned whether D/s is considered sexual or not, whether it is something that just fulfills a person or makes them hard or wet, here we are talking about what overt signs show the kids. Yeah, having kids is a pain in the ass in many ways, it does interfere with who we are as adults, and there is the constant line there of where the needs of the parents conflicts with the childs....and the answer has to come out of trying to do as much for the children as possible without totally taking away parents being adults (yeah, I know, really easy, right?).

There are people out there who will tell you gays shouldn't be parents, because it will hurt them, ruin their sense of selves, all kinds of drivel, and that is what it is, drivel. No, two gay women or two gay men shouldn't be having sex in front of their kids, but neither should straight ones, either, but showing affection, love, kissing in a loving way, isn't going to warp them (and on top of everything else, despite what the Yowlers claim, sexual identity is not learned)....as long as the kids feel the parents love them, and the parents guide them properly, explain appropriately about sex as time goes on, they will be fine...but it doesn't stop the drawlers and other morons claiming otherwise.

I experienced this directly with when I was in transition (and then ended it), we kept it from our child for a number of years, until a)it seemed like I was serious and b) it was becoming obvious. We didn't go into rash details, but we explained to him what was going on, explained that I was still his parent, would always be 'dad' in some ways and that I was there for him, that we were a family......we also had advice on this from a damn good therapist, we didn't take this on ourselves.....and yes, we took shit, from all quarters. We belonged to a pretty liberal religious group, and there were some people, particularly people who should have known better, tsk tsking and such..the worse unfortunately was a female/female couple with kids, who by any means weren't traditional (one of them was stone butch, the other was a kind of reformed biker chick type), who were nasty, to the point that they tried to get the leadership of the church to expel us as a bad influence or something....so I know what that is like, it is the automatic assumption they know better.

Okay, so what about the D/s? I won't sit here and say "oh, that is play only, you should keep it in the bedroom", that is both insulting and stupid, it denies that for some people this is important to them and is something they need to do...

That said, what the OP described bothered me. I don't agree with Dyslexica comments, that he was going to turn into a brutal, woman beating man because of the way they were raised, while I appreciate where she is coming from (In effect the same place I am), I think it can cause conflict. I grew up in a household where in many ways there was real misogyny, if a meal was cooked, my mother would clean it up, while my father would go off and watch the news or do something around the house. If I was talking to my mom, and he started talking, it was like she didn't exist.....and the list went on. When I was dating my then girlfriend, she was shocked that this person she knew and loved, who wasn't a chauvinist or unattentive, turned into this parody of a 1950's jerk male if around that environment. Women complain that they work now and men don't help around the house, where do you think they learned that one?:

I think the OP and her husband did what they could to try and protect the children, and I don't think there was any lasting damage done, but I think they need to talk to the kids (not just her, them both, as a couple) to explain some things. You don't need to go into details (nor frankly do kids want to hear them; sorry, as much as kids are exposed to sex these days, thoughts of parents have sex squicks them to no end, I hear this from my son all the time, talking about what other kids talk about). It was like explaining to kids about someone who is trans, you can explain it without the details (unless they ask).

We obviously don't have all the details on their lives (nor do I want them), but a couple of things concern me. I understand that saying "food", "drink" is part of your dynamic, there are ways to do that to make it less troublesome IMO. For example, if the H said something like "woman, where is my drink" like he was Henry the VIII or something, done in a half joking voice, the kids would pick up on that as a private joke between you and H..yet the dynamic for you is very real. Using the term "woman" or "girl", is said differently, implies a very different thing to kids or others.

A friend of mine was in a D/s with his wife, and he would order her around, in front of the kids, but would say something like "I would like my drink, my dear, you wench" and again, it came out light, but they both knew what it meant.

Grabbing her by the neck and guiding the OP around could be softened for kids, instead of grabbing the neck, put your arm around her or lock your arm around her and guide her that way, if the point is to get her to move...done wrong, and it looks like a dickhead abusing his wife, showing contempt.

The kneeling thing is something that could be problematic, depending on how it is done. Having the wife kneel there with her hands behind her head (I realize the OP didn't do this, this is hypothetical), is way out there; but if the H is in his favorite easy chair or whatever, she kneels softly and puts her head in his lap, that is two people showing affection (the kids, as they get older, would probably roll their eyes at that, like in "Please!" or something like that *lol*).

The reason for all this is so the kids get the idea that there is a loving relationship there, that the husband and wife have love, and the big one, respect for each other. From the classic sitcom era you have the classic case of what I am trying to avoid, that of Archie and Edit Bunker. Archie loves his wife, but he is always putting her down, and she is like the beaten down puppy. There is no doubt he loves her, but it doesn't show.....and that quite frankly is what a D/s can look like to a child, if not done right.

If I knew the OP and she asked me this, I would ask her "how does he show you affection? When around the kids, does he ever address you equally, or does everything come out in command form? Does your H ever do the little things 'normal' husbands do, to show love, like bringing you flowers or something simply because......it might seem weird in a D/s, but the thing here is to show that however the relationship plays out, there is love and respect there (which quite frankly, if the respect part isn't in a D/s both ways, it isn't worth a pound of chicken poop IMO). Without the kids, I don't care if you both love it when he calls you a slut and a whore and slaps you silly or pees on you, I don't care how that works out, if he has you sleep on a dog bed or whatever, up to him; but when kids are involved, the trick with D/s in my opinion is in the 'real' world around the kids, not not do it, but disguise it. I know other D/s couples with kids, and when the kids are around, when the D makes a request, they still say please and thank you, yet they are running pretty serious TPE's. People ask why, and they say "first of all, I want my kids to be polite and not assume someone else is the one getting a favor done for them, secondly, if I want to say thank you to my sub, that is my right, i am the D after all...".

My experience with a D/s is the dynamic is there no matter how I am addressed or treated, so "hiding' stuff wasn't a big deal. When I was in my D/s as a M(?)s, half the dynamic for us was how this was perceived; when we ate and I waited until my wife starting eating, it was politeness; when I opened the door for her or took out her chair or did the grocery shopping or did the laundry or whatever, I was attentive. If we were in public and she wanted me to walk slightly behind her, I was reversing what most M do when walking with a woman; if we danced and she wanted to lead, why not; For us hiding in plain sight was awesome, the 'dog collar' silver chain I wore as a collar got me some laughs (guy at the bagel place wanted to know if the family dog was pissed I stole its collar), but it was there.

One note to the OP, one thing I did find a bit grating, was the idea that you either have a pliant, submissive wife in a D/'s, or a drama queen. Plenty of wives in vanilla relationships are even tempered, don't yell much, etc, yet occasionally go off the deep end, and I think quite honestly when you made that reference it puzzled me. You could be perfectly nice around your kids, never throw a tantrum, whatever, and the kids would simply assume you were an even tempered person. There could be negatives to this, if the kids see you never get angry they might wonder, but that can be fixed by telling them "I do get angry, I just don't act out on it, and deal with it privately when I get made at your dad", so they know you aren't 'too perfect'...and it isn't bad to explain that women are all different, some express anger, some don't, some cry, some don't......I understand why you wrote that, but i think your choice of examples was a bit too far out there and it set people off, and I understand why.

One other point, I don't think you have irreparably harmed the kids, especially the boys. I think both of you need to talk to them, again without the details, and just say that you guys have a mutual love of a lifestyle where you wish to live where he is in charge, that it is something you both wanted and brought into your life, with life and respect. I would suggest your H talk to your son(s) privately, and tell them that he loves and respects you, that they have a special relationship and that they are always to love and respect the person they are with and work out a relationship that works for them. I would likely tell the OP that if you have daughters, that what they see with their dad is how you and he chose to live, but that they with the people they are with have the right to demand respect and polite treatment, that underlying what they see with you two is a lot of love and mutual respect and that you would hope that they demand that from whoever they are with.

Kids are pretty resilient, but it never hurts to re-inforce things. I don't think you need to apologize for having a D/s out of the bedroom or having this play out with a family (the you being anyone,not just the OP), my take is that our duty as parents is not to deny ourselves, but rather keep as much of it away from the kids as possible that may not be appropriate, or to put those aspects in front of the children in a way that they would perceive it as having goofy parents who love each other, not a man seemingly treating his wife like a slave with less worth then him.......

Anyway, that is my take. I don't know if the OP took off, but having been through this with both D/s and an aborted gender transition, I have lived it, too.

 

[Primalex]

THIS is an example of why I don't ignore you, Primalex.

Who the fuck cares? I don't want to know why you would want to ignore me, I don't want to know why you would not want to ignore me. Write your "I didn't ignore Primalex today." status updates on Twitter.

 

[intothewoods]

Who the fuck cares? I don't want to know why you would want to ignore me, I don't want to know why you would not want to ignore me. Write your "I didn't ignore Primalex today." status updates on Twitter.

Um, we all already do this. It's very big on twitter.


To add to njlauren's first point -- yes, there are different outside relationship influences and, yes, the familial relationship is primary -- these facts do not cancel each other out. When kids see that everyone else is one way and their family is another, that tends to have an even bigger impact.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Um, we all already do this. It's very big on twitter.

 

[Loverskitten]

Ok I agree with the regs here, well with most of the responses. The rest were TLDR and I hate when people get a shitty attitude after they ask questions and don't get the responses the want to hear so, admittedly, I skipped half of this thread.

On a related note... take this with some salt...

A man came home from work, sat down in his favourite chair, turned on the TV, and said to his wife, "Quick! Bring me a beer before it starts!"

She looked a little puzzled, but brought him a beer.

When he finished it, he said, "Quick! Bring me another beer! It's gonna start!"

This time she looked a little angry, but brought him a beer.

When it was gone, he said, "Quickly! Another beer! It's gonna start any second!"

"That's it!" She blows her top. "You bastard! You waltz in here, flop your fat ass down, don't even say hello to me and then expect me to run around like your slave! Don't you realise that I cook and clean and wash and iron all day long?"

The husband sighed. "Oh shit. It's started."

 

[Stella_Omega]

reluctant laugh and a *slow clap*

 

[Amanda_T]

Warning: This post contains opinions that others may or may not agree with. Read at your own risk.


Right and wrong are such touchy issues aren't they? In other countries, the way a Dom treats his sub in front of the rest of the family is pretty much the vanilla situation. Some religions even in the west, think this is probably a good idea as well. Others believe, that you should be able to raise your kids in whatever lifestyle you live, even exposing them to anything and everything. So where is the right and wrong in it all?

I have had issues with right and wrong all my life. I was told I was somehow defective for being different, evil in some manner, heck I was even called "demon child" once. I was beaten, humiliated, harrassed, mentally and emotionally, and physically abused on a regular basis. So the question of right and wrong meant something to me in my self examination, and my examination of the world around me.

Why is the lifestyle not plainly wrong as some would call it? The same reason other things aren't. That which comes from love, is good, that which doesn't, isn't.

OP:
There are two things that have been mentioned so far by other posters, that are crucial in finding the answer to your doubts. Education, and choice. Why? Because those things come from love.

I have served three Ladies who have children. And the girl who now serves me has children. The fact that I was not the one with the children, led me to let their mothers make all the decisions o how to handle it.

The first Lady, had me act in a D/s manner even around her children. They had questions, and being fairly young, she answered them simply. "Why does Amanda call you Milady Mommy?"
"It's a form of respect my dear".

Another Lady, had educated her daughter to the point that when she was 15, when I met the Lady, her daughter knew all about the lifestyle and it's politics and protocols. She was looking forward to being a Domme herself.

The other Lady had two children and we all lived together for a while. The Lady said nothing about it, but the kids were smart and could figure things out, and often had questions. Unfortunately, they were given untruths, or partial truths for answers.

As mentioned, a child should be prepared for the world. And perhaps the world should be prepared for children lol.

If you want your kids to be able to form healthy relationships, in a style of their own choosing, whether it be a D/s Man/woman, or a Femdom, or a vanilla, gay, bi, straight, whatever, you have to teach them. Honesty is necessary. Not necessarily the gory details of one's sex life, but surely about the style of relationships, how the world works, what someone can expect from the rest of the world for their choices, and most of all respect. Respect for people of any given relationship style, whether they are a stay at home dad who keeps the kids and house, or whether mommy is a submissive. Everyone merits respect. If your children grow up to respect other people, and themselves, and if they are taught that love exists in many forms, shapes, sizes and styles, then they will probably turn out ok.

A part of that respect is choice. Consent, even the non consentual consent that slaves live under in the lifestyle, is absolutely crucial to a human beings freedom of self determination. And, regardless of our beliefs about right and wrong and morality, we must all respect everyone else's choices, unless there is tangible harm being done.

So educate them; teach them respect; teach them the styles of love; and teach them about freedom of choice and consent. And, teach them to think for themselves so they can make their own decisions about what they want/need, and you will have fulfilled your responsibilities as a parent and as a human being.

My two cents. Not everyone will agree.

 

[Aurelia_Malys]

OP,
I have teenage children. My husband (their step-father) and I live a 24/7 TPE that makes us both very happy. When my husband and I are alone, we are certainly more "overt" in our interactions than we are in the presence of the children. But that doesnt mean that I figuratively "hang up my collar" in front of the children.

I agree with what Stella and others have suggested - an open conversation about relationship dynamics might be a good path. "This is how your stepfather and I live. It makes us both happy to xyz. But not all relationships have one partner taking the more dominant role. Some families are more equal in the roles of the couple."

But in my opinion, the "vibe" of a relationship is most important. My children see a relationship where both of us extremely happy. They see love and affection and respect (though each of those things may look different than in other homes). I think that if I acted like a scared puppy who jumped nervously at any word from my husband and appeared afraid of him or intimidated by him then a different lesson would be learned by my children.

And finally, my children see me in settings with other people, as well as at home with my husband. With my husband I am submissive and obedient. In other areas of my life I am much more dominant and assertive. I want my children to see their mother as a confident, happy woman who loves herself as much as she loves her husband and children. For this reason, it is important for my children to know that my husband and I live our lifestyle because it makes us both happy.

 

[eastern sun]

As mentioned, a child should be prepared for the world. And perhaps the world should be prepared for children lol.

If you want your kids to be able to form healthy relationships, in a style of their own choosing, whether it be a D/s Man/woman, or a Femdom, or a vanilla, gay, bi, straight, whatever, you have to teach them. Honesty is necessary. Not necessarily the gory details of one's sex life, but surely about the style of relationships, how the world works, what someone can expect from the rest of the world for their choices, and most of all respect. Respect for people of any given relationship style, whether they are a stay at home dad who keeps the kids and house, or whether mommy is a submissive. Everyone merits respect. If your children grow up to respect other people, and themselves, and if they are taught that love exists in many forms, shapes, sizes and styles, then they will probably turn out ok.

A part of that respect is choice. Consent, even the non consentual consent that slaves live under in the lifestyle, is absolutely crucial to a human beings freedom of self determination. And, regardless of our beliefs about right and wrong and morality, we must all respect everyone else's choices, unless there is tangible harm being done.

So educate them; teach them respect; teach them the styles of love; and teach them about freedom of choice and consent. And, teach them to think for themselves so they can make their own decisions about what they want/need, and you will have fulfilled your responsibilities as a parent and as a human being.

My two cents. Not everyone will agree.

I agree. Well stated.

 

[eastern sun]

OP,
I have teenage children. My husband (their step-father) and I live a 24/7 TPE that makes us both very happy. When my husband and I are alone, we are certainly more "overt" in our interactions than we are in the presence of the children. But that doesnt mean that I figuratively "hang up my collar" in front of the children.

I agree with what Stella and others have suggested - an open conversation about relationship dynamics might be a good path. "This is how your stepfather and I live. It makes us both happy to xyz. But not all relationships have one partner taking the more dominant role. Some families are more equal in the roles of the couple."

But in my opinion, the "vibe" of a relationship is most important. My children see a relationship where both of us extremely happy. They see love and affection and respect (though each of those things may look different than in other homes). I think that if I acted like a scared puppy who jumped nervously at any word from my husband and appeared afraid of him or intimidated by him then a different lesson would be learned by my children.

And finally, my children see me in settings with other people, as well as at home with my husband. With my husband I am submissive and obedient. In other areas of my life I am much more dominant and assertive. I want my children to see their mother as a confident, happy woman who loves herself as much as she loves her husband and children. For this reason, it is important for my children to know that my husband and I live our lifestyle because it makes us both happy.

I agree with you too, and I'm curious how your current relationship is seen by your teenagers compared to your relationship with their father.

 

[njlauren]

Right and wrong are difficult subjects, the revealed religions with all their 'truths' are prime examples of that. For me it comes down to harm, but even that is difficult. For example, having gay parents can mean the kids experience things the kids of straight parents don't, raw discrimination and so forth, but does that means gays shouldn't have kids? No, parental choices all affect kids, who we marry, our politics, etc, affect them.

I agree that kids should be exposed to a lot of things and learn to respect differences, but I also think that we have to be careful. The woman who in effect trained her teenage daughter in the politics and protocols of being a dominant raises red flags for me. It is one thing to teach children that in some relationships, people choose equal footing, in others they may choose where one or the other takes on more power (or however you put it), but what that sounds more to be is indoctrination. If the Daughter in her life discovered she had a penchant for being dominant, all well and good, and if then she asked the mother about it, I wouldn't have a problem,but to me the description is the mother saying 'this is how you live', that is no different then the parent telling a child that if they are gay, they are going to burn in hell, it is trying to tell them how to live, rather then explaining about life and IMO that went over the line. That would be like the mother who had a bitter divorce telling her daughters that all men are nothing but cheating scum, or the father telling his sons women are airheads you have to constantly sit on top of. It is rare I'll say that, it is why when discussing the OP's situation, I will say something like 'if it were my kids, here is how I would handle it', because it does come down to a matter of choice and parenting styles.

 

[Amanda_T]

Right and wrong are difficult subjects, the revealed religions with all their 'truths' are prime examples of that. For me it comes down to harm, but even that is difficult. For example, having gay parents can mean the kids experience things the kids of straight parents don't, raw discrimination and so forth, but does that means gays shouldn't have kids? No, parental choices all affect kids, who we marry, our politics, etc, affect them.

I agree that kids should be exposed to a lot of things and learn to respect differences, but I also think that we have to be careful. The woman who in effect trained her teenage daughter in the politics and protocols of being a dominant raises red flags for me. It is one thing to teach children that in some relationships, people choose equal footing, in others they may choose where one or the other takes on more power (or however you put it), but what that sounds more to be is indoctrination. If the Daughter in her life discovered she had a penchant for being dominant, all well and good, and if then she asked the mother about it, I wouldn't have a problem,but to me the description is the mother saying 'this is how you live', that is no different then the parent telling a child that if they are gay, they are going to burn in hell, it is trying to tell them how to live, rather then explaining about life and IMO that went over the line. That would be like the mother who had a bitter divorce telling her daughters that all men are nothing but cheating scum, or the father telling his sons women are airheads you have to constantly sit on top of. It is rare I'll say that, it is why when discussing the OP's situation, I will say something like 'if it were my kids, here is how I would handle it', because it does come down to a matter of choice and parenting styles.

When you use the word "indoctrination" I am compelled to think of all those christians who "brainwash" their children into not thinking for themselves, but instead, to base their entire existence on what their parent's belive. Is that not also indoctrination?

Which is why the things I mentioned regarding freedom of choice, and self determination, love, and respect are so important. A lot of people aren't given the choice, or the education to believe anything else is possible.

The girl in question, as far as I am aware, was also taught how other relationships worked. So I am not at all sure it is "indoctrination" but more of "education" and "choice". And your red flags, if only applied to what I mentioned and not to "christian" and "muslim" relationship styles, aren't working right.

 

[laurasunshinegal]

without taking one side or another, i just wanted to say that reading everyone's point of view has been fascinating and educational! thanks to everyone!

 

[Ropebunny]

When you use the word "indoctrination" I am compelled to think of all those christians who "brainwash" their children into not thinking for themselves, but instead, to base their entire existence on what their parent's belive. Is that not also indoctrination?

Which is why the things I mentioned regarding freedom of choice, and self determination, love, and respect are so important. A lot of people aren't given the choice, or the education to believe anything else is possible.

The girl in question, as far as I am aware, was also taught how other relationships worked. So I am not at all sure it is "indoctrination" but more of "education" and "choice". And your red flags, if only applied to what I mentioned and not to "christian" and "muslim" relationship styles, aren't working right.

I got those same red flags, nay, flashing neon banners from your post.

Indoctrination comes in all guises but I think a good portion of society would agree that the worst form involves sex and children.

A 15 year old looking forward to being a Domme due to the 'education' she has recieved and activities she has witnessed in her home sounds to me like sexual grooming.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I got those same red flags, nay, flashing neon banners from your post.

Indoctrination comes in all guises but I think a good portion of society would agree that the worst form involves sex and children.

A 15 year old looking forward to being a Domme due to the 'education' she has recieved and activities she has witnessed in her home sounds to me like sexual grooming.

One word; "Cosmo."

 

[Amanda_T]

I got those same red flags, nay, flashing neon banners from your post.

Indoctrination comes in all guises but I think a good portion of society would agree that the worst form involves sex and children.

A 15 year old looking forward to being a Domme due to the 'education' she has recieved and activities she has witnessed in her home sounds to me like sexual grooming.

I don't believe it was "Indoctrination" as you call, though to be honest I cannot say as I did not live with them and did not witness their daily lives. But an honest education, is simply that. Her mother did not have sex in front of her, but did not hide the nature of her relationship styles.

But it isn't my place to tell a mother how to raise her daughter. Even when I disagree. I raised some questions and points for the OP to consider. You can call it what you want, but neither of us really witnessed what was done. All I know for sure is that the Lady in question was completely honest with her daughter. Which, I might say, is extremely rare in this world. Most parents would rather lie to their kids and let the kids learn to distrust them when they figure the lies out. I don't know the details of what the Lady told or did not tell her daughter, so I honestly can't say what was what with any certainty, except, she was honest with her daughter in a way that was far more courageous than most parents.

 

[Amanda_T]

I got those same red flags, nay, flashing neon banners from your post.

Indoctrination comes in all guises but I think a good portion of society would agree that the worst form involves sex and children.

A 15 year old looking forward to being a Domme due to the 'education' she has recieved and activities she has witnessed in her home sounds to me like sexual grooming.

I have a question for you. Do you believe that the lifestyle, the D/s, BDSM, lifestyle, is inherently wrong?

Because honestly, the people that tend to use the word, "Indoctrination", are usually religious bigots who hate gays and believe that being gay is inherently wrong and thus gay people being allowed to marry and raise children, either adopted, or their own, would be considered "indoctrinating' them into a lifestyle that is not right.


If teaching a child the truth of life the universe and everything as you believe it, is indoctrination, then let's face it, every parent does that with every word they speak, every action they take, and every idea they discuss, either truthfully or dishonestly.

Which is why a large part of my original comment, involved teaching a child to think for themselves, to love and respect others, and to teach them that love comes in all forms, even heterosexual vanilla equality.

 

[Ropebunny]

One word; "Cosmo."

That tripe should come stamped with warning labels.

Yeah, I'm of the view that pop culture indoctrinates kids with unhealthy attitudes towards relationships and sex. I am very thankful that I am not the parent of a teenage girl.

I have a question for you. Do you believe that the lifestyle, the D/s, BDSM, lifestyle, is inherently wrong?

Because honestly, the people that tend to use the word, "Indoctrination", are usually religious bigots who hate gays and believe that being gay is inherently wrong and thus gay people being allowed to marry and raise children, either adopted, or their own, would be considered "indoctrinating' them into a lifestyle that is not right.


If teaching a child the truth of life the universe and everything as you believe it, is indoctrination, then let's face it, every parent does that with every word they speak, every action they take, and every idea they discuss, either truthfully or dishonestly.

Which is why a large part of my original comment, involved teaching a child to think for themselves, to love and respect others, and to teach them that love comes in all forms, even heterosexual vanilla equality.

I don't believe D/s, BDSM or any other form of lifestyle is wrong. Quite the opposite. I think I'd struggle on these message boards if I did.

When I use the word 'indoctrination' I'm using it as per its definition. It is distinguished from education whereby the indoctrinated person is not encouraged or expected to question what they have learnt. While you have stressed that the child in question was taught about how other relationships work I worry that the extent of what she was told may not have been age appropriate. Imposing adult ideas on children that are not mature enough to critically assess them sounds a bit like indoctrination to me.

I just can't get past educating a child on D/s politics and protocols. That is what seems inappropriate to me, and I also can't shake the feeling that things worked out that way not because of the childs questioning, but perhaps of a mothers enthusiasm at raising a like-minded daughter.