War starts on command, but doesn't end when you please

[mayfly13]

You're knowingly repeating lies. Crimea is demonstrably less "always been Russian" than Kharkiv, or even Kyiv itself for that matter.

I'm so over your cherry-picking bullshit.

You never told us that Ukraine contains territories that were illegally grabbed from Hungary, Czechs, Romania and even Poland following ww2.

By Russia, but after that Ukraine came hard on those native inhabitants' rights. Ending with 2021, when Zelensky declared that only Tatars were native minorities.

 

[LupusDei]

hey Lupus

how many Lithuanians have died in this war
how many lay-Ukrainians

at least Americans are giving away their money
what sacrifices have You guys made

Lol. Again.

I wonder do you do it as intentionall insult or are just that stupid and inattentive.

Not that we haven't been forced to get used to it. Still funny.

Anyways.

We do have a small unit over, on their second rotation by now. Nothing official, volunteers on own footing, of course.

I do believe Lithuanians have as well. There was even photos of destroyed trucks in camouflage painting with Lithuanian number plates circulating a while back, but that of course doesn't mean they were driven by Lithuanians at that time -- there's been a lot of donations. Including, but not limited to, the Lithuanian crowdfunding for a Bayractar drone for Ukraine.

Estonians have been very vocal, we Latvians not so much (somewhat understandable maybe, being probably most vulnerable to Russian meddling of the three), but have quietly done our thing, and have been second only in bilateral military aid to Ukraine relatively to GDP (as of 7th June, what jumped up in quick search):
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/_processed_/3/1/csm_UST-Figure4-EN-v06_210d00a3c3.png

The same date in absolute numbers:
https://preview.redd.it/2u8ressmol991.png?auto=webp&s=dc72693f6752a8f98eedf6598b1bcfb73d874c2a

I believe that Australia have surpassed us in absolute numbers since, not so sure about France (although rumor has it that French do a lot more but keep it off the books for own reasons).

Then, we haven't got the brunt of refugee flows (being somewhat off route), and those coming here seems mostly wanted to be here. Still it's like they're everywhere.

And in economic terms, severely cutting trade with Belarus and Russia is noticeable locally. Not only energy carriers. Stupid things sometimes, like greenhouses.

 

[Buffalogurl]

WAR

Some people are saying that this time (on Biden's watch) the war was a mere miscalculation
--Zelensky won the elections based on his platform of allowing Donbas's autonomy to end the war, unfortunately the Azov battalion opposed him.
--And Biden recently said that when Russia surrounded Ukraine last year, he tried to talk Zelensky into making compromises to avoid the war, but this time, Zelensky said "no",

Had they negotiated with Russia and let go of Crimea and Donbas last year, everything (the carnage, economic crashes) could have been avoided. It's insane to think that anyone could beat Tsarist Russia, who never hesitated to sacrifice millions of it;s own people to the altar of Imperialism, and has the bomb.
As a result of going to war instead of compromise-negotiating, they will end up losing even more territories to Russia.

And what would have been the big deal of letting go of Crimea and Donbas (two Russian majority) territories anyway? Didn't Poland, Hungary, Czechs and Romania let go of theirs to Ukraine too? And Crimea was aways Russian, till it was gifted on a whim.
Now Ukraine will end up letting go of even more territories.



SANCTIONS

the resuts of BOTH Russia's aggression and of Biden's sanctions are now
---economic decline in 2nd and 3rd world countries, and the fall of the EU from 1.5 US dollars, to 1 US dollar.
--Meanwhile, Russia is still able to sell it's energy resources to countries like India and so on.

These are not just mere miscalculations, I can't believe that Biden's economic advisors were so incompetent, to not foresee this clusterfuck.

Thank you mayfly13 for your time, you explained quite a bit for me once again thank you

 

[mayfly13]

whose alt are you?

 

[Buffalogurl]

whose alt are you?

I'm new here..... I'm no alt, I'm assuming your belief is I possess multiple accounts? Rest assured it's just me.. I'm also assuming because I thanked you for taking the time to answer my question your being suspicious. I get that.. I my circle we have manners. So once again thank you for your time......

 

[mayfly13]

I'm new here..... I'm no alt, I'm assuming your belief is I possess multiple accounts? Rest assured it's just me.. I'm also assuming because I thanked you for taking the time to answer my question your being suspicious. I get that.. I my circle we have manners. So once again thank you for your time......

you're someone's performance alt.
you ask the same pretend-polite questions
and you change your sex and gender on a whim....

 

[mayfly13]

Looks like our Occidental overlords are trying to extend the conflict:

Militants of Kosovo are beginning to massively enter Serbian settlements on the border with Serbia​

 

[Rightguide]

Lol. Again.

I wonder do you do it as intentionall insult or are just that stupid and inattentive.

Not that we haven't been forced to get used to it. Still funny.

Anyways.

We do have a small unit over, on their second rotation by now. Nothing official, volunteers on own footing, of course.

I do believe Lithuanians have as well. There was even photos of destroyed trucks in camouflage painting with Lithuanian number plates circulating a while back, but that of course doesn't mean they were driven by Lithuanians at that time -- there's been a lot of donations. Including, but not limited to, the Lithuanian crowdfunding for a Bayractar drone for Ukraine.

Estonians have been very vocal, we Latvians not so much (somewhat understandable maybe, being probably most vulnerable to Russian meddling of the three), but have quietly done our thing, and have been second only in bilateral military aid to Ukraine relatively to GDP (as of 7th June, what jumped up in quick search):
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/_processed_/3/1/csm_UST-Figure4-EN-v06_210d00a3c3.png

The same date in absolute numbers:
https://preview.redd.it/2u8ressmol991.png?auto=webp&s=dc72693f6752a8f98eedf6598b1bcfb73d874c2a

I believe that Australia have surpassed us in absolute numbers since, not so sure about France (although rumor has it that French do a lot more but keep it off the books for own reasons).

Then, we haven't got the brunt of refugee flows (being somewhat off route), and those coming here seems mostly wanted to be here. Still it's like they're everywhere.

And in economic terms, severely cutting trade with Belarus and Russia is noticeable locally. Not only energy carriers. Stupid things sometimes, like greenhouses.

US aid to Ukraine now has topped over twice as much at 54 billion:

https://www.theedgemedia.org/us-military-aid-ukraine-war/

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'm so over your cherry-picking bullshit.

You never told us that Ukraine contains territories that were illegally grabbed from Hungary, Czechs, Romania and even Poland following ww2.

By Russia, but after that Ukraine came hard on those native inhabitants' rights. Ending with 2021, when Zelensky declared that only Tatars were native minorities.

Poland and Ukraine have settled their differences over their territorial and population adjustments post-WW2. Disclaimer here, one of my great-granddads was Polish, his family was from outside Lvov, he fought in WW2 in the Polish Army against the Russians, was sent to Siberia, made it to the Middle East as part of the Anders Army, fought thru the rest of WW2 and ended up here (US) as a post-WW2 refugee. I know all about what happened in the western Ukraine / Eastern Poland during and after WW2, it's family history for me. All of my great-grandad's family except him did not survive WW2, so cut with the crap. Poles and Ukrainians both regard what happened back then as unfortunate history, now put aside. Poland is the 3rd biggest supporter of Ukraine after USA and UK. Nuff said.

As for Romania, WTF? Moldava was part of Romania before USSR seperated it. Nothing to do with Ukraine, and the coastal area south of Moldava's another story. Czech? Look at the map. There's this country called Slovakia in between. Maybe that was what you were thinking of? Or was it Ruthenia? Whatever, it's not even an issue. Eastern European borders overlap ethnicity all over eastern europe. So are you also suggesting Czechia gives upland to Germany because Sudeten Germans? Maybe Ukraine should also claim the Kuban from Russia, because Kuban cossacks are Ukrainian rather than Russians. Also on that basis, the Russian Federation should be broken up because in reality, Russia is the last surviving colonial empire in the world. Speaking of cherry-picking bullshit.

As for Hungarians, there's Hungarian minorities in just about every country Hungary borders, because of the way the Austro-Hungarian empire was broken up post WW1. Transylviana for example. If you want to start a full-on Balkan/Eastern European war, try re-arranging all those borders, but stop jerking off and making like a Russian troll making up shit about Ukraine and its small Hungarian minority.

 

[mayfly13]

Poland and Ukraine have settled their differences over their territorial and population adjustments post-WW2. Disclaimer here, one of my great-granddads was Polish, his family was from outside Lvov, he fought in WW2 in the Polish Army against the Russians, was sent to Siberia, made it to the Middle East as part of the Anders Army, fought thru the rest of WW2 and ended up here (US) as a post-WW2 refugee. I know all about what happened in the western Ukraine / Eastern Poland during and after WW2, it's family history for me. All of my great-grandad's family except him did not survive WW2, so cut with the crap. Poles and Ukrainians both regard what happened back then as unfortunate history, now put aside. Poland is the 3rd biggest supporter of Ukraine after USA and UK. Nuff said.

As for Romania, WTF? Moldava was part of Romania before USSR seperated it. Nothing to do with Ukraine, and the coastal area south of Moldava's another story. Czech? Look at the map. There's this country called Slovakia in between. Maybe that was what you were thinking of? Or was it Ruthenia? Whatever, it's not even an issue. Eastern European borders overlap ethnicity all over eastern europe. So are you also suggesting Czechia gives upland to Germany because Sudeten Germans? Maybe Ukraine should also claim the Kuban from Russia, because Kuban cossacks are Ukrainian rather than Russians. Also on that basis, the Russian Federation should be broken up because in reality, Russia is the last surviving colonial empire in the world. Speaking of cherry-picking bullshit.

As for Hungarians, there's Hungarian minorities in just about every country Hungary borders, because of the way the Austro-Hungarian empire was broken up post WW1. Transylviana for example. If you want to start a full-on Balkan/Eastern European war, try re-arranging all those borders, but stop jerking off and making like a Russian troll making up shit about Ukraine and its small Hungarian minority.

I'm so fucking over the Slava Ukraina and Zelensky Vogue bullshit.


If you Americans were savvy, you would ask for detailed invoices:

did ALL those billions taken from your taxes
go towards arming Ukraine or giving shelter to refugees?
--How much of that money was used for "salaries" etc


What is the current net value of Zelensky and the other Ukrainian oligarchs? Have THEY chipped in at all to help those displaced laypeople?

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'm so fucking over the Slava Ukraina and Zelensky Vogue bullshit.


If you Americans were savvy, you would ask for detailed invoices:

did ALL those billions taken from your taxes
go towards arming Ukraine or giving shelter to refugees?
--How much of that money was used for "salaries" etc


What is the current net value of Zelensky and the other Ukrainian oligarchs? Have THEY chipped in at all to help those displaced laypeople?

Yeah yeah yeah. Moral equivalence. When you're up there getting upset about Russians castrating Ukrainian POW's and mass-murdering them, if they hadn't already tortured them to death, I might give two fucks about your opinions on the Vogue front page, a really good PR move which reached an audience that might not otherwise be that aware of what's happening. As for the billions, most of that is weapons and ammo. Yeah, sure, some of its going in graft. Who gives a shit, look at how much our own politicians steal. I'll give two fucks about Ukrainians making a few bucks on the side once Biden and Killary are in jail. Meanwhile, I would far rather see arms and ammo going to Ukraine.

Anything else places you firmly on the side of the Russians, and THAT is at pretty much the same level as Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, in terms of evil, given what the Russians are actively doing. The only thing worse than an enemy is a traitor who stabs you in the back, and from your posts, that's pretty much you, because while engage in a bit of moral masturbation to make yourself feel good, ordinary Ukrainians are the subject of genocide, torture and being sent off to the concentration camps. You know where that places you, right? About on a par with the apologists for Himmler and the SS.

As it stands, your views are irrelevant, because the wolves are out there, hunting Russians, and they won't stop until the 2014 borders are reached, and Crimea, the Donbas and Luhansk are safely back in the Ukraine, and the orcs are fertilizing the sunflower fields, or back in Mordor. Either is okay.

"Step by step, a shadow in the shadows,
Wolves go hunting.
"Step by step, a shadow in the shadows,
Wolves go hunting...."

 

[mayfly13]

wow, chill out or take some Zinc.

 

[ChloeTzang]

wow, chill out or take some Zinc.

Coffee works far better

\

 

[mayfly13]

Looks like our Occidental overlords are trying to extend the conflict:

Militants of Kosovo are beginning to massively enter Serbian settlements on the border with Serbia​

speaking of Kosovo
interesting to see the double standards

Americans intervened through force, to help Kosovo break away from Yugoslavia

yet when it came to Donbas and Crimea,
which are majority Russian, Crimea voted yes through Public Referendum
Slava Ukraina!

 

[mayfly13]

apparently the Kosovo debacles, this one and the September one, were orchestrated by KGB not CIA.

it serves Russia -not to ignite the conflict, but to bring Kosovo again into people's working memory, for the parallels with Donbas.
just like Medvedev's new Ukraine map, which showcased the territories ilegally grabbed by Ukraine/under USSR, from neighbouring countries.

CIA was asleep at the wheel.

 

[LupusDei]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554541531658391553

Our job is incomparably easier than the Ukrainians'. The Ukrainians have to demonstrate resolution of every kind. All we have to do to see things as they are, show some patience, and support the democracy that is under attack -- with the right attitude, and the right weapons. The outcome of the war might well depend upon our capacity to do that.

 

[mayfly13]

what a load of bull..
both Russians and Americans are jerking off over quotes from over-fed writers or politicians
who never lost one cent in this war

instead of doing surveys of lay-Russians and lay-Ukrainians

 

[LupusDei]

what a load of bull..
both Russians and Americans are jerking off over quotes from over-fed writers or politicians
who never lost one cent in this war

instead of doing surveys of lay-Russians and lay-Ukrainians

Surveys of Ukrainians are being done and are rather clear. Overwhelming majority support their country's continued existence and believe in victory.

When asked about President Zelensky, 94% of Ukrainians strongly approve or somewhat approve of his job performance.

“The people of Ukraine have rallied around President Zelensky as their country continues to withstand Putin’s brutal attacks,” said Stephen Nix, Director of IRI’s Eurasia Division. “His steady guidance has provided the Ukrainian people with the leadership they need during this remarkably difficult time.”

Ukrainians also expressed strong confidence that they will defeat Russia in the current conflict. When asked if they will win the war, 97% of Ukrainians said yes. Further, 83% believe that the war will end before the end of 2022.

The options and respective national percentages were:

1. Reaching an immediate ceasefire by both sides with conditions and starting intensive negotiations (14.9%)
2. Continue opposing Russian aggression until the territory occupied by Russia since February 24, 2022 is liberated (8.6%)
3. Continuing opposing Russian aggression until all Ukrainian territory except Crimea is liberated (12.2%)
4. Continue opposing Russian aggression until all of Ukraine, including Crimea, is under Kyiv control (61%).

And 3.3% responded “hard to say”.

Surveys of Russian population is highly problematic. Publicly, they too seem supportive of the genocidal, colonial invasion, knowing well what it entails. Stil Putin is apparently afraid of starting open mobilization, and might be right to be.

 

[mayfly13]

Surveys of Ukrainians are being done and are rather clear. Overwhelming majority support their country's continued existence and believe in victory.





Surveys of Russian population is highly problematic. Publicly, they too seem supportive of the genocidal, colonial invasion, knowing well what it entails. Stil Putin is apparently afraid of starting open mobilization, and might be right to be.

oh, good then. I am a rusophile as in love the people and culture, but I'm not a Tsarist-Putinist.

But normal people like me are turning pro-Putin out of exasperation with the "John Wayne goes to war"propaganda that is being shoved down our throats.

They treat us like they treat their' barely-finished high-school' Americans - with telenovelas and l'patriotic John Wayne' stories and memes.
But people outside of US are't like that. Back home, even the most uneducated rough rural person has more discernment.

 

[LupusDei]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554539906927665159

 

[butters]

Rafael Grossi, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said in an interview Tuesday with The Associated Press that the situation is getting more perilous every day at the Zaporizhzhia plant in the southeastern city of Enerhodar, which Russian troops seized in early March, soon after their Feb. 24. invasion of Ukraine.

“Every principle of nuclear safety has been violated” at the plant, he said. “What is at stake is extremely serious and extremely grave and dangerous.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=94de8e48e0b64e49c35ec3547cd0ef98

 

[ChloeTzang]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=94de8e48e0b64e49c35ec3547cd0ef98

Let's hope the prevailing wind blows east then.....

Mind you, the Russians also gave us Chernobyl, so its not like they don't have a track record of nuclear fuckups. About time to de-nuke, de-nazi, and de-militarize the Russia KleptoFascist orcs.

 

[Chobham]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554539906927665159

Quite telling.

 

[Chobham]

Does anyone of you have a grasp of what's happening? Russia-Ukraine is just a pebble in the pond, it's the ripples that you need to pay attention to.

Whether Russia takes Ukraine or not, they will emerge a broken nation incapable of waging conventional war in the future.

In the mean time Putin's ill considered venture is condemning a good part of the world to food shortages and famine. And if that's not bad enough the unelected morons running the EU are trying to put their farmers out of business.

Famine breeds disease and war. And disease and war equals death..................for millions. North America will be more or less OK. But even the US and Canada will not be able to produce enough food to feed the rest of the world anymore. There will be certain strategic allies that we will be able to sustain. Most likely Japan, Mexico, and the UK. France will make it through and probably Argentina. India will struggle, but survive. China is going to be in deep shit along with most of Africa, the middle East, and a great deal of South America. I suspect that Australia will survive as well but there will be a profound change in their politics associated with that.

I have no faith, NO FAITH, in the leadership in the US or any other nation for that matter beyond India. India is that only nation I know of that is taking concrete steps to protect their food supply and those steps are not good news for other nations that rely on what meager food (or food related (fertilizer)) exports India makes.

Lupus is concerned that Russia may invade them. No necessary at all. The Baltic's are incapable of feeding themselves given time with the various policies and decisions of the West, along with Russia, they'll starve to death.

Could it be that there are people of means and power that actually want to see a billion people, or more, starve to death? I can't answer that question but we have prima facie evidence that their actions will lead to that result. For example Bill Gates buying up vast quantities of farm land and taking those lands out of production. While we can't divine his motives we can certainly know the results in a world plagued by food shortages.

Food and energy make the world go around, and for all intents and purposes the two terms are synonymous. Starving a nation, or the world, of either one is a prescription for disaster. Starving a nation, or the world, of both simultaneously is a catastrophe of epic proportions.

 

[LupusDei]

Lupus is concerned that Russia may invade them. No necessary at all. The Baltic's are incapable of feeding themselves given time with the various policies and decisions of the West, along with Russia, they'll starve to death.

Bullshit. We are more than capable to feed ourselves and about twice, if not more. Caveat: it's not really profitable to do so at current price levels still. Do that change, we're back in business big time. Not instantly, sure, but trust me, we're no fools.

True, the combination of the sudden plunge in unregulated capitalism and slavish literalism in over-implementation of EU regulations (no, there's no contradiction) have done more damage to millennia old traditions of subsistence than any previous turmoil, but those are still alive and was still near universal less than a generation ago. There's far more resilience than you can imagine. Would the shit hit the fan for real, our exurbs could switch back to feeding themselves with little fuss, like it almost always was till now. And the advances modern humanity had done make it easier than ever. Hobby gardens may not be profitable but they keep the knowledge.

As far industrial farming goes, strict adherence to European regulations aren't exactly so disruptive for those who can keep up with it. It drives concentration yes, but that also drives efficiency, even though everyone is still apparently too small and effectively forced to keep extra capacity.

We can laugh about couch-peasants who cash in on Europe paying for cutting grass, but even that policy does exactly what it's intended to do: keep the unused ameliorated land from returning to forest (what happens in short order here otherwise), so that it would be available should the conjuncture change. In other words, exactly for what were talking about.

In all truth, you can't starve Russia either, exactly for the same reasons, even though they would have it much much worse, not in small part exactly for the lack of the (external, "artificial") support through the systemic change (they aren't capable of) and far, far further gone on -- intentionally driven -- inequality. However, as though it might be, people will subside anyway, as they always had. They still do.

You can, with enough pressure and disruption starve Moscow, that abomination is so far out of anything reasonable, but it's also metropolis of a very aggressive empire run by petty thugs who will loot anyone without a shred of conscience. So yes, it's conceivable someone in Russia will starve before Moscow, but because of Moscow and not otherwise.