the marks of a slave

[Keroin]

Why would being a slave mean you had to give up that aspect of yourself? What disconnect lies between slave and daydreaming? I'm confused.

Say you and Lance were to suddenly enter into M/s. Why would he decide then that daydreaming had to go? M/s is a relationship, and there are no hard and fast rules.

I would guess in the same ways that other relationship do. In my case, it means giving the girls the space, time, and resources needed to do their creative stuff. Both MIS and viv use various creative outlets as stress-release and therapy of a sort, so I don't get in the way. And many times I've been asked to buzz off so that one or both could concentrate on what they're doing. Guess what? I buzz off.

Being 24/7 doesn't mean it's all about me 24/7.

Well, I guess that's my misconception. From what I've read here, it seems like it is, to a large degree, about the s at least attempting to subjugate their needs and focus solely on the needs of the M.

I mean, what if the s was having a creative spree, told the M to buzz off and the M said, "No, I won't" and insisted on being tended to? What happens to the "do what the fuck your told" then? I know there are lots of times I've had to go in "the cave" when L would much rather I didn't. There are times the writing comes first. There are times I know it's going to make him unhappy. But in the bigger picture I also know my needs have to come first, whether he likes it or not...this seems contrary to the M/s dynamic as I understand it.

Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[JMohegan]

Well, I guess that's my misconception. From what I've read here, it seems like it is, to a large degree, about the s at least attempting to subjugate their needs and focus solely on the needs of the M.

I mean, what if the s was having a creative spree, told the M to buzz off and the M said, "No, I won't" and insisted on being tended to? What happens to the "do what the fuck your told" then? I know there are lots of times I've had to go in "the cave" when L would much rather I didn't. There are times the writing comes first. There are times I know it's going to make him unhappy. But in the bigger picture I also know my needs have to come first, whether he likes it or not...this seems contrary to the M/s dynamic as I understand it.

Maybe I'm wrong?

I don't think this is an M/s thing. From my perspective, you're addressing a fundamental element of control. If she only obeys when she wants to obey, that's not a situation in which I'd feel like I was actually in charge.

Imagine if Lance were your boss, and you the employee. Would you get to say, "sorry, I'm daydreaming, go away"? Of course not. Would you still get to write? Sure, because the boss isn't putting demands on you 24 hours a day.

 

[Keroin]

I don't think this is an M/s thing. From my perspective, you're addressing a fundamental element of control. If she only obeys when she wants to obey, that's not a situation in which I'd feel like I was actually in charge.

Imagine if Lance were your boss, and you the employee. Would you get to say, "sorry, I'm daydreaming, go away"? Of course not. Would you still get to write? Sure, because the boss isn't putting demands on you 24 hours a day.

We do have some work parameters, even though we are 50/50 partners as opposed to boss/employee. If he catches me day dreaming, he says something, then I stop, (most times I'm not even aware I've drifted). I want our business to succeed as much as he does.

It's the off-work hours where the issue of control comes in. That's where it could, potentially, be a problem.

I've had to fight hard enough as it is. I can't imagine being in a position where I surrendered that right.

I think I should also clarify that, for me, creativity is not just a hobby, it’s how I intend to, (hopefully soon), earn a living. (Yeah, a couple grand a year doesn’t really count as “a living” unfortunately). So perhaps the thought of having someone “let” me daydream or “let” me write rubs me in all the wrong directions and provokes an instant defensive reaction? To my mind, this makes me a poor candidate for slavedom.

 

[00Syd]

Keroin, I've had a lot of similar thoughts about a whole lot of different qualities that I posses. Absent-mindedness, stubbornness, rebelliousness, impatience, etc, etc, etc.

I can understand how all of these things might, theoretically, fit into an M/s relationship, but I just don't want them too. I like (most of) my qualities, the way they are. Go ahead and punish me for them, but don't require me to hide them, or change them. D/s is a much better fit for me because, well, because of a lot of reasons, but this is a big one. For a while I thought that these qualities prevented me from being submissive at all (as I talked about A LOT on the board a good while back), but for now I've found a really comfortable place.

I am submissive ( as in, "lesser than") all of the time (within the context of my relationship), but I just cannot act 100% submissive all of the time; my inherent qualities won't let me. I always end up wanting to fight back. What's the fun of a power exchange without a little push and pull, you know? I will challenge Seb's dominance over me sometimes, and I never feel more submissive than when he puts me back in my place.

 

[Netzach]

We do have some work parameters, even though we are 50/50 partners as opposed to boss/employee. If he catches me day dreaming, he says something, then I stop, (most times I'm not even aware I've drifted). I want our business to succeed as much as he does.

It's the off-work hours where the issue of control comes in. That's where it could, potentially, be a problem.

I've had to fight hard enough as it is. I can't imagine being in a position where I surrendered that right.

I think I should also clarify that, for me, creativity is not just a hobby, it’s how I intend to, (hopefully soon), earn a living. (Yeah, a couple grand a year doesn’t really count as “a living” unfortunately). So perhaps the thought of having someone “let” me daydream or “let” me write rubs me in all the wrong directions and provokes an instant defensive reaction? To my mind, this makes me a poor candidate for slavedom.

Or you just need to be enslaved by a creative, someone who has a hope of "getting it."

It's not a hobby. It's like saying "you know, your breathing is getting on my nerves, you should blow me now instead, it's much more important."

Only horrible fits will do this.

Even fucking political prisoners get to write books on toilet paper.

 

[BiBunny]

The idea of someone "punishing" me for any of the inherent qualities that I have makes me feel sick. That would be a fantastic way to start something you might not be able to finish.

I mean, Jesus, if something I do annoys you that much, SAY SO. I'll try to stop. If it's hard for me, then help me come up with a way to avoid it. To me, the only thing punishment teaches is "Don't do whatever you did in front of me again."

For example, the Owner people knew I was a dreamer and impulsive when they got me. If it were to bother them, then they've got only themselves to blame because they've had a year to help me modify my behavior. Punishment, to me, is pure laziness and an unwillingness to actually try to figure out a way to solve the problem together.

Do I count as nothing more than a kinky bedroom bottom yet?

 

[Keroin]

Keroin, I've had a lot of similar thoughts about a whole lot of different qualities that I posses. Absent-mindedness, stubbornness, rebelliousness, impatience, etc, etc, etc.

I can understand how all of these things might, theoretically, fit into an M/s relationship, but I just don't want them too. I like (most of) my qualities, the way they are. Go ahead and punish me for them, but don't require me to hide them, or change them. D/s is a much better fit for me because, well, because of a lot of reasons, but this is a big one. For a while I thought that these qualities prevented me from being submissive at all (as I talked about A LOT on the board a good while back), but for now I've found a really comfortable place.

I am submissive ( as in, "lesser than") all of the time (within the context of my relationship), but I just cannot act 100% submissive all of the time; my inherent qualities won't let me. I always end up wanting to fight back. What's the fun of a power exchange without a little push and pull, you know? I will challenge Seb's dominance over me sometimes, and I never feel more submissive than when he puts me back in my place.

This.

Yep. I yam what I yam.

I fight for what what's important to me. I love my husband and I trust him to want what's best for me, (I know he does), but I don't trust him to know what's best for me, (he often doesn't). In that regard, I exercise my own judgement.

Or you just need to be enslaved by a creative, someone who has a hope of "getting it."

It's not a hobby. It's like saying "you know, your breathing is getting on my nerves, you should blow me now instead, it's much more important."

Only horrible fits will do this.

Even fucking political prisoners get to write books on toilet paper.

With another type of man, I probably could enjoy an M/s relationship but not with L. It's not that he doesn't want me to write, it's just that he's the steamroller and would roll right over my writerly needs if I didn't go all Tianamen Square now and then and refuse to budge.

Compartmentalization seems to be the key, for now. And, like I said, it's a work in progress.

Do I count as nothing more than a kinky bedroom bottom yet?

I hear you're also a good cookie baker, too. If that helps.

 

[JMohegan]

We do have some work parameters, even though we are 50/50 partners as opposed to boss/employee. If he catches me day dreaming, he says something, then I stop, (most times I'm not even aware I've drifted). I want our business to succeed as much as he does.

It's the off-work hours where the issue of control comes in. That's where it could, potentially, be a problem.

I've had to fight hard enough as it is. I can't imagine being in a position where I surrendered that right.

I think I should also clarify that, for me, creativity is not just a hobby, it’s how I intend to, (hopefully soon), earn a living. (Yeah, a couple grand a year doesn’t really count as “a living” unfortunately). So perhaps the thought of having someone “let” me daydream or “let” me write rubs me in all the wrong directions and provokes an instant defensive reaction? To my mind, this makes me a poor candidate for slavedom.

I'm a poor candidate for M/s too. The labels don't turn me on, thinking of a partner as owned property doesn't turn me on, and women who lack independent hobbies/jobs/responsibilities don't turn me on either. I'm not a "master"; I'm just a guy with control issues who needs to be in charge on his home turf.

If your creativity comes in unpredictable spurts, that's different than, say, a woman with an office job, or volunteer responsibilities with specific committed hours. But I see this as a timing challenge more than anything else.

 

[eastern sun]

If he catches me day dreaming, he says something, then I stop, (most times I'm not even aware I've drifted).

This is exactly what was being discussed earlier. It's just the nature of the "prompting" that differs.

I suppose I think of it as punishment because it hurts. And it's meant to.

 

[Homburg]

Well, I guess that's my misconception. From what I've read here, it seems like it is, to a large degree, about the s at least attempting to subjugate their needs and focus solely on the needs of the M.

It more a matter of juggling schedules. I don't know a single M-type whose needs occupy their s 100% of the time.

I mean, what if the s was having a creative spree, told the M to buzz off and the M said, "No, I won't" and insisted on being tended to? What happens to the "do what the fuck your told" then? I know there are lots of times I've had to go in "the cave" when L would much rather I didn't. There are times the writing comes first. There are times I know it's going to make him unhappy. But in the bigger picture I also know my needs have to come first, whether he likes it or not...this seems contrary to the M/s dynamic as I understand it.

Maybe I'm wrong?

Meh. It depends. It is a collision of wants and needs. There are times that I recognise the she NEEDS that creative outlet. I buzz off.

My attitude towards M/s is fairly simple.

M's WANTS > the s' WANTS
NEEDS > WANTS (regardless of whose they are)
NEEDS = NEEDS (regardless of whose they are)

She NEEDS air as much as I do, to use a particularly simple example, but what I WANT to listen to on the radio in the ranks over what she WANTS to listen to.

Though I am not bashful about saying "That can wait for a minute. Please do this now," when it comes to some things. I paint, I write, I draw, etc. I get interrupted all the time when doing things like this, even when I am doing commission work. If I can get back into the right headspace after an interruption, anyone else can as well. Sometimes, there are things that are more important than my creative endeavours.

At the end of the day, it comes down to fit, not style of relationship. As Netz mentioned, so long as it is someone that "gets" it, you should be fine. I see these sorts of concerns a lot, and my only real thought is that people are reading too much BDSM fiction. The RL slaves that I know, even ignoring the two under my roof, are people. Well realised, active, creative people. Yes, they subsume their own decision-making in favor of their owner, but it does not somehow lessen them. Hell, most of the ones that I know are often more creative than they might otherwise be.

 

[eastern sun]

I’m curious how those who are in M/s relationships maintain and nurture their creative gifts.

There are many layers to the question. Bear with me.

In any given moment, he might ask me to set aside what I'm doing in order to do something he deems has higher priority. If it is time-sensitive, absolutely, he would expect me to drop what I was doing and make sure I did what I was told. If it wasn't, he wouldn't mind if I finished what I was doing and created my own schedule.

If I'm just daydreaming, he doesn't worry about interrupting my train of thought. If I'm up against a work deadline, he recognizes its priority, accepts my assertions that I need time, and doesn't interrupt me.

But I also spend a lot of time alone while he's at work and the kids are at school. Though he has expectations of what I will accomplish during that time, it includes ample opportunities to daydream, free associate, write, etc.

On a daily basis, it's much more likely that I will use my position as "slave" to sabotage myself, by putting everyone else's needs ahead of my own, than vice versa. Then, he'll even step in and assign me creative tasks in order to push me back into my studio.

But there are areas where it's been difficult. When we were young, I didn't take a job that could have launched my independent career, because he didn't want me to. I felt like "my voice" was being neglected, but since his projects were getting funded, I served his vision. When projects that reflected my voice started getting funding, he did his best to support them. But neither of us were comfortable. It didn't fit our dynamics to have him in the supporting role, and he hated running projects that I had designed.

When he unilaterally decided to change careers, my creative work was jeopardized. Our business floundered without him, and I lost the funding to sustain my own projects. I tell myself another woman would have kept it going without him. He never told me to close our business. I just couldn't play his role.

But it isn't simply a case of him being in control, and making all the decisions. His influence was profound, but so were my own actions and choices.

We do have funny creative moments, like when he asks me direct him in a theatrical production. And, truthfully, I still sabotage his efforts to shape my creative voice, even when I know his ideas could be more profitable.

I don't think it would be possible to nurture creativity in any relationship without support from your partner. The M/s dynamics add a dimension that is sometimes problematic, but it's also part of who I am. (I yam what I yam. )

All artists create from the raw material of their experience and within the parameters of their lifestyle. So do I. And I have always been grateful for the exceedingly rich ground I have to work with.

 

[Keroin]

This is exactly what was being discussed earlier. It's just the nature of the "prompting" that differs.

I suppose I think of it as punishment because it hurts. And it's meant to.

Mm, yes and no. It's really no different than me giving him "the look" when he gets on the phone with one of his business buddies and starts talking WAY too loud. (There are people living below us). He isn't aware of his behaviour either and me reminding him of it isn't a punishment.

I don't want to daydream in the middle of work and he doesn't want to piss off the other tenants - it's more about helping each other than anything. It's very mutual.

It more a matter of juggling schedules. I don't know a single M-type whose needs occupy their s 100% of the time.

Meh. It depends. It is a collision of wants and needs. There are times that I recognise the she NEEDS that creative outlet. I buzz off.

My attitude towards M/s is fairly simple.

M's WANTS > the s' WANTS
NEEDS > WANTS (regardless of whose they are)
NEEDS = NEEDS (regardless of whose they are)

She NEEDS air as much as I do, to use a particularly simple example, but what I WANT to listen to on the radio in the ranks over what she WANTS to listen to.

Though I am not bashful about saying "That can wait for a minute. Please do this now," when it comes to some things. I paint, I write, I draw, etc. I get interrupted all the time when doing things like this, even when I am doing commission work. If I can get back into the right headspace after an interruption, anyone else can as well. Sometimes, there are things that are more important than my creative endeavours.

At the end of the day, it comes down to fit, not style of relationship. As Netz mentioned, so long as it is someone that "gets" it, you should be fine. I see these sorts of concerns a lot, and my only real thought is that people are reading too much BDSM fiction. The RL slaves that I know, even ignoring the two under my roof, are people. Well realised, active, creative people. Yes, they subsume their own decision-making in favor of their owner, but it does not somehow lessen them. Hell, most of the ones that I know are often more creative than they might otherwise be.

First, just to be clear, I’m not suggesting for one moment that s types are not whole, creative, talented, vibrant human beings, not at all. What I was suggesting is that some people – and by “some people” I mean me – would find it difficult to be creative under certain circumstances.

You, dearest Hommy, seem to be very intuitive about inter-personal relationships. I’m sure you’re very good at reading the moods of your girls and judging wants and needs. You are also artsy yourself, so you “get it”. Under your roof, an artsy type would probably fare very well. But my guess is that not all M’s are like you and that there are probably some s’s who have to find ways to express themselves creatively within defined parameters.

When it comes to art stuff, L doesn’t “get it”. He doesn’t. That doesn’t make him a bad person or husband, it’s just not his way. Now, if I were to hand over the reins, completely, I guarantee he would not exercise the kind of sound judgment and restraint that you do.

As to the point in bold, yes, I understand. Real life intrudes all the time, I don't throw a hissy fit about it. But I do have serious long term goals to succeed in a very difficult industry and in order to do that I must make my creative endeavors more important than just about everything else, whenever possible.

I'm a poor candidate for M/s too. The labels don't turn me on, thinking of a partner as owned property doesn't turn me on, and women who lack independent hobbies/jobs/responsibilities don't turn me on either. I'm not a "master"; I'm just a guy with control issues who needs to be in charge on his home turf.

If your creativity comes in unpredictable spurts, that's different than, say, a woman with an office job, or volunteer responsibilities with specific committed hours. But I see this as a timing challenge more than anything else.

Yeah, it's the unpredictable spurts thing. We've got our schedules down pretty good now but it took several years of push and shove and back and forth to get here.

 

[Keroin]

There are many layers to the question. Bear with me.

In any given moment, he might ask me to set aside what I'm doing in order to do something he deems has higher priority. If it is time-sensitive, absolutely, he would expect me to drop what I was doing and make sure I did what I was told. If it wasn't, he wouldn't mind if I finished what I was doing and created my own schedule.

If I'm just daydreaming, he doesn't worry about interrupting my train of thought. If I'm up against a work deadline, he recognizes its priority, accepts my assertions that I need time, and doesn't interrupt me.

But I also spend a lot of time alone while he's at work and the kids are at school. Though he has expectations of what I will accomplish during that time, it includes ample opportunities to daydream, free associate, write, etc.

On a daily basis, it's much more likely that I will use my position as "slave" to sabotage myself, by putting everyone else's needs ahead of my own, than vice versa. Then, he'll even step in and assign me creative tasks in order to push me back into my studio.

But there are areas where it's been difficult. When we were young, I didn't take a job that could have launched my independent career, because he didn't want me to. I felt like "my voice" was being neglected, but since his projects were getting funded, I served his vision. When projects that reflected my voice started getting funding, he did his best to support them. But neither of us were comfortable. It didn't fit our dynamics to have him in the supporting role, and he hated running projects that I had designed.

When he unilaterally decided to change careers, my creative work was jeopardized. Our business floundered without him, and I lost the funding to sustain my own projects. I tell myself another woman would have kept it going without him. He never told me to close our business. I just couldn't play his role.

But it isn't simply a case of him being in control, and making all the decisions. His influence was profound, but so were my own actions and choices.

We do have funny creative moments, like when he asks me direct him in a theatrical production. And, truthfully, I still sabotage his efforts to shape my creative voice, even when I know his ideas could be more profitable.

I don't think it would be possible to nurture creativity in any relationship without support from your partner. The M/s dynamics add a dimension that is sometimes problematic, but it's also part of who I am. (I yam what I yam. )

All artists create from the raw material of their experience and within the parameters of their lifestyle. So do I. And I have always been grateful for the exceedingly rich ground I have to work with.

Beautiful answer, ES!

Thank you. I'm always intrigued with how people - any people - live with their muse and how they make it work with all of life's internal and external distractions.

 

[Keroin]

I wanted to add that, despite everything, L is my biggest fan. He is forever boasting to everyone and anyone about what an amazing writer his wife is. On that score, I couldn't ask for a better patron of the arts.

I love him like crazy.

 

[intothewoods]

Or you just need to be enslaved by a creative, someone who has a hope of "getting it."

It's not a hobby. It's like saying "you know, your breathing is getting on my nerves, you should blow me now instead, it's much more important."

Only horrible fits will do this.

Even fucking political prisoners get to write books on toilet paper.

Ding, ding.

Mine actually barks at me to get off this site and get back to creative stuff. Not that I love the barking, but he knows the value in creative time for both of us.

 

[eastern sun]

It's really no different than me giving him "the look" when he gets on the phone with one of his business buddies and starts talking WAY too loud. (There are people living below us). He isn't aware of his behaviour either and me reminding him of it isn't a punishment.

I was afraid that my earlier post might be misunderstood.

I meant that those reminders are serving a similar purpose, feel like punishment in my relationship because of the nature of our interactions, but would not be seen as punishment in other dynamics.

Is that any less confusing?

 

[Keroin]

I was afraid that my earlier post might be misunderstood.

I meant that those reminders are serving a similar purpose, feel like punishment in my relationship because of the nature of our interactions, but would not be seen as punishment in other dynamics.

Is that any less confusing?

Yuppers!

 

[eastern sun]

Keroin, I've had a lot of similar thoughts about a whole lot of different qualities that I posses. Absent-mindedness, stubbornness, rebelliousness, impatience, etc, etc, etc.

I can understand how all of these things might, theoretically, fit into an M/s relationship, but I just don't want them too. I like (most of) my qualities, the way they are. Go ahead and punish me for them, but don't require me to hide them, or change them. D/s is a much better fit for me because, well, because of a lot of reasons, but this is a big one. For a while I thought that these qualities prevented me from being submissive at all (as I talked about A LOT on the board a good while back), but for now I've found a really comfortable place.

I am submissive ( as in, "lesser than") all of the time (within the context of my relationship), but I just cannot act 100% submissive all of the time; my inherent qualities won't let me. I always end up wanting to fight back. What's the fun of a power exchange without a little push and pull, you know? I will challenge Seb's dominance over me sometimes, and I never feel more submissive than when he puts me back in my place.

I'm like you in this last point, and like to be put back in place; but I beg to differ on a couple of other points.

I don't equate submission with "lesser than." I see the D/s relationship as a union of complementary styles, or two pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, or "some metaphor that suggests that two opposites have come together in harmony."

I don't even perceive myself as having less power. I just use it and direct it differently than he does. (I also view myself as more adaptable to circumstances around me, but that's a different issue.)

I can only speak from the perspective of our relationship, but I know my husband's favorite saying is "people don't change." Maybe he has hoped that certain qualities of mine would change over time, but I have not fundamentally changed in all the years he's known me - even though my behavior has changed, often dramatically.

 

[00Syd]

I'm like you in this last point, and like to be put back in place; but I beg to differ on a couple of other points.

I don't equate submission with "lesser than." I see the D/s relationship as a union of complementary styles, or two pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, or "some metaphor that suggests that two opposites have come together in harmony."

I don't even perceive myself as having less power. I just use it and direct it differently than he does. (I also view myself as more adaptable to circumstances around me, but that's a different issue.)

I can only speak from the perspective of our relationship, but I know my husband's favorite saying is "people don't change." Maybe he has hoped that certain qualities of mine would change over time, but I have not fundamentally changed in all the years he's known me - even though my behavior has changed, often dramatically.

Oh, I wasn't trying to say what submission definitively is, since it is obviously different for everyone. Sorry if it seemed like I was. I was just trying to say that in my relationship, while I am not "lesser than" Seb as a person, and neither of us sees me that way, I am lesser in the context of the relationship. If that makes sense. I don't know if this helps, but when I try to picture our relationship, see it visually in my mind, I see myself as being literally smaller, small enough to fit into the palm of his hand. And he holds me there, or keeps me in his pocket. When we were first starting to talk about possibly exploring a more explicit power exchange, that's the way I described to him how I felt. That's just what I mean by "lesser than," I guess. I mean smaller.

But then again, I consider my D/s role to literally be one of a pet, so my take on all of this might be a little off.

I disagree with your husband's favorite saying, but I still think that that's the way people should approach each other in a relationship. Like, people have certain qualities that make them them, and I don't think that their SOs should try to change that. But while I think that it's nobodies place to try and fundamentally change a person, I think that behaviors can change, and depending on the type of relationship, then behaviors can be worked on and changed.

If that makes sense.

I think that people can change, but I don't think its right for someone else to try and change a person's fundamental being. I think that that's a change that can only come from within.

I hope that makes sense. I'm almost starting to confuse myself.

And I might change my mind. I don't know.

 

[rida]

From my perspective, willingness to wash dishes or give blowjobs isn't enough, if what you want is dishes cleaned well in a timely fashion, or quality blowjobs.

As a sadist, there are activities I initiate for which willingness to participate in spite of fear/pain is not only okay, but precisely the point. However, for me, chores and basic oral service don't fall into that category. For the latter, I want willingness plus quality performance.

I wonder if it is part of a Sadist wiring to be result oriented.

I'm on the camp that willingness should be appreciated even if the end result is not stellar. He, on the other end, has stated in a couple of occasions that "your best is not necessary good enough".

What amazes me each and every time we hit a stumbling rock is that he has shown a pretty good understanding on when pushing me might yeild the result he wishes for and when doing the "cleansing punishment" and moving on is the best course of action.

Still, I'm expected to eventually get it right.

 

[eastern sun]

Oh, I wasn't trying to say what submission definitively is, since it is obviously different for everyone. Sorry if it seemed like I was. I was just trying to say that in my relationship, while I am not "lesser than" Seb as a person, and neither of us sees me that way, I am lesser in the context of the relationship. If that makes sense. I don't know if this helps, but when I try to picture our relationship, see it visually in my mind, I see myself as being literally smaller, small enough to fit into the palm of his hand. And he holds me there, or keeps me in his pocket. When we were first starting to talk about possibly exploring a more explicit power exchange, that's the way I described to him how I felt. That's just what I mean by "lesser than," I guess. I mean smaller.

But then again, I consider my D/s role to literally be one of a pet, so my take on all of this might be a little off.

I disagree with your husband's favorite saying, but I still think that that's the way people should approach each other in a relationship. Like, people have certain qualities that make them them, and I don't think that their SOs should try to change that. But while I think that it's nobodies place to try and fundamentally change a person, I think that behaviors can change, and depending on the type of relationship, then behaviors can be worked on and changed.

If that makes sense.

I think that people can change, but I don't think its right for someone else to try and change a person's fundamental being. I think that that's a change that can only come from within.

I hope that makes sense. I'm almost starting to confuse myself.

And I might change my mind. I don't know.

Yes, that makes sense. I like those images. (I have a knee-jerk defensive response to submission as less-than, in reaction to people who adopt an attitude of low status to indicate their submissiveness. Even though I understand the impulse, it often reads false to me. And it's not an attitude I'd ever seen you take. )

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'm on the camp that willingness should be appreciated even if the end result is not stellar. He, on the other end, has stated in a couple of occasions that "your best is not necessary good enough".

What amazes me each and every time we hit a stumbling rock is that he has shown a pretty good understanding on when pushing me might yeild the result he wishes for and when doing the "cleansing punishment" and moving on is the best course of action.

Still, I'm expected to eventually get it right.

I'm much like you. Unfortunately, I can often get stuck on the "but I tried really hard, goddamnit!" and get a touch resentful during the punishment. The lesson I've learned there is, if I'm not going to get the result needed, and I know it, I need to say so, and either ask for clarification, or help. The punishment is more about my failure to do that, than the actual failure to complete.

If we don't get the required result, and I didn't know, then that's where we push a bit more and try again.

I think also, it depends on the task. Willingness should be expected of the day to day things, and acknowledged and appreciated when it comes to the out of the ordinary, the special, the new.

 

[rida]

I’m curious how those who are in M/s relationships maintain and nurture their creative gifts.

Well, I guess that's my misconception. From what I've read here, it seems like it is, to a large degree, about the s at least attempting to subjugate their needs and focus solely on the needs of the M.

*snip*

Maybe I'm wrong?

I'm always been pretty much a day dreamer but never considered myself particularly creative. Or rather, I'm not a consistently creative person, I have a hard time with focusing for the long haul and also don't deal well with external pressure.

Interestingly, I've grown to love writing since I started doing it in English instead of my mother tongue, Italian. Sometime I wonder if the "educational system" damaged my creativity back then ...

My writing has no bearing at all on our livelihood so it has to take a back seat to basically every other obligation and need at the moment. But it is true that creative moment are often a sudden strike thing, when an idea comes and IT.HAS.TO.BE.WRITTEN. or it goes and sometime never comes back (and for that I love that I can just sketch it out on my iPhone ...).

With Hubby we are not officially M/s. For a short while I wished we were but then realized that, for how much I love him and trust him, there are moments that I know I need to be in charge of my both our needs, security and life for our marriage to work. (I'm like the second in command that most of the time does all the work and sometimes even dare go against the captain.)

It has nothing to do with not being compatible, or him being an insensitive and selfish hog. It is just that it would require a level of awareness and responsibilities that for him are not appealing and also, right now with his bipolar struggles, not possible at all. Having children also adds a total different layer to the whole situation.

Somehow he has always known it and as such never really warmed up to my view of M/s.

Reality thou is that, I do drop anything I'm doing if he asks me for something. I even drop everything and run to him if I hear him struggling or I perceive he might need something. Being woken up in the middle of the night because he cannot find something has also not been that rare. That is just they way it has been in our marriage since the beginning. With the difference that before acknowledging the power exchange I would resent it.

Probably the most indicative episode is what happened while I was going through labor with my first one.

He had been working very hard and instead of coaching me just collapsed asleep on the sofa. I was having a hard time handling the whole Lamaze thing (who the hell can concentrate on breathing when something is trying to rip you apart from inside?) and was basically just screaming at each contraction. Pushing time arrived and the doc and the obstetrician where trying to get me to push right. Hubby woke from his slumber and I heard him looking for his glasses. In the middle of my "I cannot do it!!!" I suddenly regained composure, turned around and told him "they are behind you on the window" , and then went back to my "I cannot do it!!!" crazy woman talk & screams. The face on the doc was priceless ... LOL.

However I do carve my own time out of it all. And I've purposely ignored his "hints" when I did not feel like being the complying wife. I would not ignore a directly expressed order or request, but I do act "selfish" at times when the expectations are not clearly stated and I know that my preemptive complyingness will make me resent him.

I think that when you live with someone 24/7 as a couple, no matter what the flavor, you need to remember that your own sanity is very important. Even as a slave, if I'm not in perfect physical and mental shape, I cannot serve properly, right? Of course the M has the right to push his s as far and as badly as he wishes but that, at the end, goes down to compatibility.

 

[BiBunny]

I hear you're also a good cookie baker, too. If that helps.

LOL!

But then again, I consider my D/s role to literally be one of a pet, so my take on all of this might be a little off.

Me, too. I tried to do the slave thing. I can't. I'm too bitchy. We should start a pet thread.

Hey, why not? The slaves have one, and the Daddy's little girls have one...two...three...at least.

Don't mind me; I have nothing relevant to add to the discussion.

 

[eastern sun]

We should start a pet thread.

I'd be interested in reading it.