the marks of a slave

[Keroin]

In most kink-oriented communities, M/s is treated as some sort of pinnacle, and the sensitivity tends to run the other way.

There's often a tremendous amount of pressure to be edgier, more hardcore, more in terms of the scope of control, and all of that tends to push people toward at least considering M/s at some point.

There's also the tendency of some, who have newly embraced M/s and found it increased the bond in their own relationships, to get sort of evangelical about it and start trying to convince other people that M/s would also work for them.

I can see how that would happen. I know how it feels to find something that really sets you on fire and then feel a compulsion to thrust that on others.

Fish anyone?

Absolutely, and that was why I clarified in a different post that I wasn't pointing at anyone specifically. I don't think that is the case with you, yet I have seen it time and again.

I'm glad. I think I've offended a few people here on the odd occasion, (unintentionally). Part of being a good writer is being a good observer. I do it constantly, in all aspects of my life. Believe me, if I don't like something, I'll say so, very plainly.

Off topic, a bit...(L's away for the next for days so I'm just lounging and being an internet bum today!)...

Boy, it sure hit home to me, at last night's sleepover, how so much of the kink stuff that I view as everyday or mild is so very NOT mild to most folks.

My friends are all incredible, smart, funny, strong, inspirational women that I love spending time with but boy do I ever feel like the square peg in the round-holed world sometimes.

 

[Keroin]

I do not "fit" anywhere. Period. Never have and never will.

I'm too social and too physical for geeks.
I'm too geeky for my fellow lifters.
I'm too coarse and free-spirited for the social crowd.
I'm either too hard-core or not hard enough for most BDSM'ers.
Etc etc.

This is interesting H. I know where you're coming from.

I remember one of my stunt coordinators walking in on me while I was reading Last of the Mohicans in my trailer. He looked at me as if I'd suddenly sprouted an extra head and said, "Why are you reading that? They made a movie of it, you know."

I wish I could say his attitude was unusual.

Conversely, my writer's group friends are just as baffled by the physical stuff I do.

I can relate to not feeling like I quite fit in anywhere, but I do like having a sense of community. I accept that I'm not wholly one thing or another.

I agree. I wonder, ITW, how many people feel this way? I wonder if we ALL feel as though we don't fit in?

 

[Homburg]

I don't get being offended either. That would be weird.

I can relate to not feeling like I quite fit in anywhere, but I do like having a sense of community. I accept that I'm not wholly one thing or another.

As far as wanting a label, it's pretty meaningless for me now, since I'm not looking for a relationship.

Nah, I don't need a sense of community. The few occasions where I interface with the local munch group are generally because I have the urge for public play or there's a demo I want to see. I tried the whole community thing with them, and they're great people, but it's just not me.

Even here, I don't particular feel a sense of community or belonging. There's a few kindred souls that seem to get what I get, and a whole lot of people who don't. Fortunately, many of the ones that don't are still interesting people, so the conversations can be worthy.

See, but this is what makes me go round and round in circles. We have a similar structure in our relationship, but do not really id as M/s. Perhaps the notion that I retain a safeword, even if I wouldn't use it, is important.

I've seen this time and again. And I've dealt with folks with the s label that had a safeword once and swore they never use it, then gotten into a no safeword situation and been told, "Wow, I totally would've safeworded there," or even heard a safeword.

That said, I did not really understand No Safeword Play until I went there. It seemed crazy, unsafe, etc. Now, well, suffice to say that my attitude has changed.

---

This is interesting H. I know where you're coming from.

I remember one of my stunt coordinators walking in on me while I was reading Last of the Mohicans in my trailer. He looked at me as if I'd suddenly sprouted an extra head and said, "Why are you reading that? They made a movie of it, you know."

I wish I could say his attitude was unusual.

Conversely, my writer's group friends are just as baffled by the physical stuff I do.

I agree. I wonder, ITW, how many people feel this way? I wonder if we ALL feel as though we don't fit in?

I think it is common, yet most people that claim not to fit in can certainly fool outside observers. They go to the bar after work with coworkers, are in bowling leagues, knitting circles, etc. They don't hear things like you presented above regarding reading because they don't express those sorts of interests.

I don't feel all "woe is me," over lack of fit, nor do I consider it a triumph of some individuality only I possess. I'm just a bit of an odd duck. It's no big thing.

 

[Netzach]

I don't get being offended either. That would be weird.

I can relate to not feeling like I quite fit in anywhere, but I do like having a sense of community. I accept that I'm not wholly one thing or another.

As far as wanting a label, it's pretty meaningless for me now, since I'm not looking for a relationship.




Evidently I can tend that way too, though there has to be something that sets me off or interests me.



See, but this is what makes me go round and round in circles. We have a similar structure in our relationship, but do not really id as M/s. Perhaps the notion that I retain a safeword, even if I wouldn't use it, is important.

H is a slave.

If I want H to have a safeword prior to some kind of play I still give it to him. It s a nice shorthand for "I'm in trouble" in some fashion.

I've done it the other way too. Honestly there's not that much difference to me. I'm not sitting there dwelling on safewording once I get busy.

There's no safeword on life stuff, but being able to say "I'm in trouble, help me" during a scene doesn't really take the badass edge away.

 

[Homburg]

so, to answer your question, because i feel that way so often, i simply keep on trying. i try not to allow myself to drown in self-pity or loathing, and focus on doing all i can for him. it is what i am on this planet for after all, so what else can i do? what else matters?

The bolded part is pretty exceptional to me.

--

H is a slave.

If I want H to have a safeword prior to some kind of play I still give it to him. It s a nice shorthand for "I'm in trouble" in some fashion.

I've done it the other way too. Honestly there's not that much difference to me. I'm not sitting there dwelling on safewording once I get busy.

There's no safeword on life stuff, but being able to say "I'm in trouble, help me" during a scene doesn't really take the badass edge away.

This is the "safeword" I use. No Safeword seems to imply that we ignore any possible verbal indications of plight. For me, it just means the bottom can't end the scene with a word. They sure as hell can, and are expected to, let me know if something is wrong though.

 

[eastern sun]

There's no safeword on life stuff, but being able to say "I'm in trouble, help me" during a scene doesn't really take the badass edge away.

He's like you and Homburg, in the sense that if I feel like I'm in trouble I am totally free to express it.

It's not having a safeword on life stuff that really makes a difference to me.

 

[ownedsubgal]

The bolded part is pretty exceptional to me.

--

thanks Homburg.

 

[intothewoods]

I agree. I wonder, ITW, how many people feel this way? I wonder if we ALL feel as though we don't fit in?

I'm fascinated by all different types of outsiders. I think more people feel like this than not at some point in their lives.

Nah, I don't need a sense of community. The few occasions where I interface with the local munch group are generally because I have the urge for public play or there's a demo I want to see. I tried the whole community thing with them, and they're great people, but it's just not me.

Even here, I don't particular feel a sense of community or belonging. There's a few kindred souls that seem to get what I get, and a whole lot of people who don't. Fortunately, many of the ones that don't are still interesting people, so the conversations can be worthy.



I've seen this time and again. And I've dealt with folks with the s label that had a safeword once and swore they never use it, then gotten into a no safeword situation and been told, "Wow, I totally would've safeworded there," or even heard a safeword.

That said, I did not really understand No Safeword Play until I went there. It seemed crazy, unsafe, etc. Now, well, suffice to say that my attitude has changed.

---



I think it is common, yet most people that claim not to fit in can certainly fool outside observers. They go to the bar after work with coworkers, are in bowling leagues, knitting circles, etc. They don't hear things like you presented above regarding reading because they don't express those sorts of interests.

I don't feel all "woe is me," over lack of fit, nor do I consider it a triumph of some individuality only I possess. I'm just a bit of an odd duck. It's no big thing.

I don't really bother trying to fit in any bdsm community, but I'm involved with my Jewish community here, and I fell in love with my neighborhood because there is such a great sense of community. I'm just social by nature.

H is a slave.

If I want H to have a safeword prior to some kind of play I still give it to him. It s a nice shorthand for "I'm in trouble" in some fashion.

I've done it the other way too. Honestly there's not that much difference to me. I'm not sitting there dwelling on safewording once I get busy.

There's no safeword on life stuff, but being able to say "I'm in trouble, help me" during a scene doesn't really take the badass edge away.

And it's not like I don't know his interests. I have some idea of the places he'd like to go at this point.

He's like you and Homburg, in the sense that if I feel like I'm in trouble I am totally free to express it.

It's not having a safeword on life stuff that really makes a difference to me.

Yeah, the safeword on life. I definitely feel that.

 

[Netzach]

The bolded part is pretty exceptional to me.

--



This is the "safeword" I use. No Safeword seems to imply that we ignore any possible verbal indications of plight. For me, it just means the bottom can't end the scene with a word. They sure as hell can, and are expected to, let me know if something is wrong though.

Yeah, I've always preferred communication in english myself. There are those times in the one-grommet-to-breathe-through hood though.

 

[Netzach]

I think I'd like a safeword on life stuff myself.

 

[intothewoods]

I think I'd like a safeword on life stuff myself.

Aaaaaamen, sister. I'm having such a tough time right now accepting my own powerlessness in life. Weird, I thought I'd sorta dealt with all of this shit already. I'm constantly amazed by all of the ways in which I cling to an illusion of control. Anyhooooo.

 

[Netzach]

Is that part of the appeal of ceding control? Being not into that for myself in ways non sexual, I wonder if that's part of the appeal. I don't mind being told "this is what makes me happy, please see that you do it as much as possible" but I won't be told *what to do.*

I realize it's a potentially ridiculous distinction.

 

[intothewoods]

Yeah, lately I totally think so. And routine keeps me from losing it.

 

[Netzach]

It's those little interventions I can make that work for me I guess. I just don't feel like they're indicative of any actual control, though, I'm getting cynical.

 

[rida]

Safewords:

With Hubby I have it for play as he likes knowing that I'm not using it.
With the sadist I don't.

With both a plea for "my hands are numbing" or other trouble signs are going to to be checked and evaluated. That does not mean necessarily the end of play, just an adjustment of the idea to the reality of flesh and bones and nerves. (No matter how much my mind submits, my body let's me know when it cannot handle it.)


And I want a safeword on life too.

 

[Homburg]

I'm fascinated by all different types of outsiders. I think more people feel like this than not at some point in their lives.



I don't really bother trying to fit in any bdsm community, but I'm involved with my Jewish community here, and I fell in love with my neighborhood because there is such a great sense of community. I'm just social by nature.

The one time that I took a longer-than-internet version of the MMPI, I scored exactly even on Introvert vs extrovert. Even on the short form stuff, I score even, or very close. I have aspects of both, and sort of waffle between the two depending on mood. Some days I'm okay with being social, others I'm happiest to just be by myself in the office.

To an extent with the community thing, I think it was how I was raised. We moved every coupla years, and so did everybody else, and the schedules were always staggered. So it didn't matter how solid a relationship was, you were likely to lose that person in 12-18 months on average. And, as it affected the whole area that you lived in, the community itself was a constantly shifting thing. It made community identity non-existent.

To this day, I barely know my neighbours. It's just knee-jerk for me. You get to know them minimally because you live next to them, but I don't get buddy-buddy. No reason to, says my up-bringing.

And with my friends, I have good times as much as I can when I can, and if I lose track of them, oh well. A coupla years back, I had some major life issues that caused me to walk away from a group of friends that I'd had for a good ten years plus (a significantly long time in my life). I felt no regrets at all and was utterly unbothered, because I'd been doing just that all my life. The up side is that if they come back into my life, I carry on like there was no break.

I did have a weird moment the other day. I was at a social function for one of my kids and was talking to another parent. He was an army brat too, and it turned out that his dad was stationed on a particular base the same time we were, and we'd gone to the same school. I thought and thought as to his name, and it suddenly struck me. He was gone, but I asked his son what his uncle's name was. Turns out this guy, a parent of one of my kids' friends, is the younger brother of one of my friends from like the 5th grade. Weird.

--

Yeah, I've always preferred communication in english myself. There are those times in the one-grommet-to-breathe-through hood though.

Heh, that's when you have to ditch the safeword break out the Safe-Noise-made-by-whistling-through-your-nose.

 

[Keroin]

To this day, I barely know my neighbours. It's just knee-jerk for me. You get to know them minimally because you live next to them, but I don't get buddy-buddy. No reason to, says my up-bringing.

I see how your upbringing plays into this but I also feel, I don't know, a little sad to read it.

I've been goofing around in the office all day, organizing stuff...hey, I finally get to unpack...and while I was rooting through a box of odds and ends I came across a speech that our next door neighbours read out to L and me, at our big going away party, when we first left the country back in 2003.

A snippet...

"Lance and Keroin are more than great neighbours, they are wonderful friends and will always be a part of our family."

(That last bit makes me all teary eyed). We remain the best of friends and I can say that about more than one set of neighbours. I don't know if we just have good neighbour karma or what but I think it's really cool that the person living right next to you could become someone you cherish for the rest of your life.

I mean, if your neighbours are total crackpots, then, yes, why bother but if not...?

 

[Homburg]

I see how your upbringing plays into this but I also feel, I don't know, a little sad to read it.

I've been goofing around in the office all day, organizing stuff...hey, I finally get to unpack...and while I was rooting through a box of odds and ends I came across a speech that our next door neighbours read out to L and me, at our big going away party, when we first left the country back in 2003.

A snippet...

"Lance and Keroin are more than great neighbours, they are wonderful friends and will always be a part of our family."

(That last bit makes me all teary eyed). We remain the best of friends and I can say that about more than one set of neighbours. I don't know if we just have good neighbour karma or what but I think it's really cool that the person living right next to you could become someone you cherish for the rest of your life.

I mean, if your neighbours are total crackpots, then, yes, why bother but if not...?

It's not like I avoid it consciously. I know the neighbours to my right, and used to know the ones to my left (before he PCS'ed). There's a guy a house or two down that I occasionally talk to. None of them that I know real well. The ones to the right I would help if they needed anything at all, and I've done a number of things for them. They're good people.

Mostly, I just don't think about associating with anyone in my neighbourhood. I'm not the guy that sees his neighbour mowing the lawn and walks over to strike up a conversation. Not my thing.

 

[intothewoods]

It's those little interventions I can make that work for me I guess. I just don't feel like they're indicative of any actual control, though, I'm getting cynical.

Actual control over another person? Sorry, I'm being dense here.

The one time that I took a longer-than-internet version of the MMPI, I scored exactly even on Introvert vs extrovert. Even on the short form stuff, I score even, or very close. I have aspects of both, and sort of waffle between the two depending on mood. Some days I'm okay with being social, others I'm happiest to just be by myself in the office.

To an extent with the community thing, I think it was how I was raised. We moved every coupla years, and so did everybody else, and the schedules were always staggered. So it didn't matter how solid a relationship was, you were likely to lose that person in 12-18 months on average. And, as it affected the whole area that you lived in, the community itself was a constantly shifting thing. It made community identity non-existent.

To this day, I barely know my neighbours. It's just knee-jerk for me. You get to know them minimally because you live next to them, but I don't get buddy-buddy. No reason to, says my up-bringing.

And with my friends, I have good times as much as I can when I can, and if I lose track of them, oh well. A coupla years back, I had some major life issues that caused me to walk away from a group of friends that I'd had for a good ten years plus (a significantly long time in my life). I felt no regrets at all and was utterly unbothered, because I'd been doing just that all my life. The up side is that if they come back into my life, I carry on like there was no break.

I did have a weird moment the other day. I was at a social function for one of my kids and was talking to another parent. He was an army brat too, and it turned out that his dad was stationed on a particular base the same time we were, and we'd gone to the same school. I thought and thought as to his name, and it suddenly struck me. He was gone, but I asked his son what his uncle's name was. Turns out this guy, a parent of one of my kids' friends, is the younger brother of one of my friends from like the 5th grade. Weird.

--



Heh, that's when you have to ditch the safeword break out the Safe-Noise-made-by-whistling-through-your-nose.

I have been that way with my neighbors too, for a variety of reasons. I have also moved a lot from time to time, and I get that feeling of why bother. And what's funny is I live in a really transient city, and one that didn't particularly feel like instant home for me or anything, but I'm slowly putting down roots anyway. I think the transient nature of the place is kind of helpful fo rme.

And the bolded part is pretty freaky!

 

[Homburg]

I have been that way with my neighbors too, for a variety of reasons. I have also moved a lot from time to time, and I get that feeling of why bother. And what's funny is I live in a really transient city, and one that didn't particularly feel like instant home for me or anything, but I'm slowly putting down roots anyway. I think the transient nature of the place is kind of helpful fo rme.

The fact that this is a military town is helpful to me as well. My neighbour on the right is ex-army. The one on the left is a marine, and the one before him that I knew kinda well was Air Force.

And the bolded part is pretty freaky!

Yeah, his brother was a pretty good friend of mine back then, and they transferred here roughly the same time we did, so I caught up with him again in my last year or so of high school. Even though I knew their last name, it's pretty common, so I didn't make the connection.

It does explain both why he looked so familiar to me and why I instantly got along with him.

When viv has those moments, it's no surprise. She grew up here and hasn't lived anywhere else her whole life. She constantly sees people she knew as a kid. Me? Pfft. That's crazy talk.

 

[Her1Obsession]

Regarding the property issue . . .

I am his woman. In being his, I do not stop being a woman. I do not suddenly become an inanimate object. He can treat me like a fuckdoll. I may act like a fuckdoll. But, in fact, I am much more complex, I am a woman, and that's what he wants. That's what he wants me to be.

As his woman, I offer a lot to him. Sexually. Domestically. As the mother of his children. As his companion. I do not suddenly become a piece of furniture (even though he assumes I will always be a part of his house).

To me, being owned means that a certain freedom of choice has been lost. I am not free to leave. I am not free to act against his wishes without suffering the consequences. And I am expected to provide him access to myself - physically, emotionally, intellectually - and my property. I cannot keep anything from him that he wants. (But I still give him grief when he loses my reading glasses. )

Being owned doesn't actually change me in any way. It just reflects a certain mental attitude we take towards our relationship.

In the same way that giving power to him hasn't taken my power away.

To me, the defining characteristic of M/s over D/s is the lack of a safeword.

Well put ...... I believe my pet will or has agreed to what you state..

 

[Her1Obsession]

Evening all...

I know what you mean 00Syd. My Master refers to me as "My pet" and even here on Lit. W/we are not into pet roleplay... just what He likes to call me. Perhaps He'll chime in at some point.

Sorry if I am way off on a tangent and this is not what you are referring to. But as far as pet, puppy roleplay, I haven't come across references to it here.

Yes you are "My pet"not that I treat you like an animal but lovingly, RP is not our game not that we would rule it out completely at this point, I know who I am and she knows her place in our relationship.. it works for us and is/has grown and we look forward to expanding on our lifestyle choice..

 

[Her1Obsession]

THANK YOU! I agree and love every word!

And that mental attitude is everything. He knowing His place and me knowing mine. That is the core. Without that, it all falls flat.

I couldn't have put it better ......

 

[eastern sun]

Is that part of the appeal of ceding control?

It is for me.

Ceding control in a relationship takes something that I accept is generally true (my powerlessness over things I cannot change), but that I have a hard time with (as I try desperately to maintain my illusion of control), and concretizes it in a way that I can learn to cope with.

My ability to cope with my powerlessness in my relationship does actually carry over into other areas of my life.

And in the end, I learn where my power really lies. How my actions can become more effective. What I can and cannot change.

 

[eastern sun]

And then there's the sex.