The Buffy thread, so as not to spoil the 'If they wrote porn'

[TheEarl]

Are you people soft? Do you not remember Spike in Season 2? In Lie to Me? He was vicious and evil, not in it for shits and giggles.

Okay, so he's hot, but definitely evil.

The Earl

 

[Recidiva]

Are you people soft? Do you not remember Spike in Season 2? In Lie to Me? He was vicious and evil, not in it for shits and giggles.

Okay, so he's hot, but definitely evil.

The Earl

That's why I started watching. I'd refused to watch the series because I was loyal to the original movie...but I flipped channels once and settled on the one moment when Spike said to the teacher "Don't worry, you're too old to eat." and then snapped his neck "But not to kill"

I was hooked.

I love Spike.

Lots.

 

[yui]

Are you people soft? Do you not remember Spike in Season 2? In Lie to Me? He was vicious and evil, not in it for shits and giggles.

Okay, so he's hot, but definitely evil.

The Earl

Disagree. From the start, Spike was all about emotions – remember the Judge tells Spike and Dru that they stink of affection and jealousy or something like that.

Spike is heat, emotions, but almost childlike in his reactions. Angelus is cold, clear-head and evil in his bones..

 

[Ferawyn]

Are you people soft? Do you not remember Spike in Season 2? In Lie to Me? He was vicious and evil, not in it for shits and giggles.

Okay, so he's hot, but definitely evil.

The Earl

Sorry, but 'Once More, With Feeling' thoroughly trashed any shred of Spike = Evil, past, present or (thank god there is no) future.
And I must agree that even before that, he had a serious lack of agenda. Being a slayer-slayer is nice, but it hardly qualifies as evil overlord material.

 

[rgraham666]

And I would have cheerfully stuck a Dragonsbreath round into either of them.

 

[TheEarl]

Disagree. From the start, Spike was all about emotions – remember the Judge tells Spike and Dru that they stink of affection and jealousy or something like that.

Spike is heat, emotions, but almost childlike in his reactions. Angelus is cold, clear-head and evil in his bones..

Oh, I don't disagree. Spike always had his emotions and his passions. But he could be cruel, merciless and downright evil along with them. He killed Ford, despite him delivering Buffy, he would've killed everyone in Lie to Me if given the chance, he took great pleasure in the pain and suffering of others. Just look at the malicious pleasure he took in tearing apart the Scoobies in The Yoko Effect. He worked from his passions, but his passions were built around evil.

Before Season 5 of course.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

Sorry, but 'Once More, With Feeling' thoroughly trashed any shred of Spike = Evil, past, present or (thank god there is no) future.
And I must agree that even before that, he had a serious lack of agenda. Being a slayer-slayer is nice, but it hardly qualifies as evil overlord material.

Ferawyn - not a Spike fan then?

Recidiva: You actually liked the film?

The Earl

 

[Recidiva]

Well, here you have to define evil then.

Joss Whedon's evil is usually an elegant thing that has to do with revealing the hypocracies of others. I loved Spike as always being the guy who could speak the truth and be perceptive, including my favorite line ever "I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."

Angelus loved corruption and the hunt, but he wasn't mindless.

Spike loved the hunt and the kill, but he wasn't mindless.

It was the mind that was the fun of it.

Neither of them would have done a thing if it weren't elegant somehow. Like the bit about never going out on Halloween and that just being tacky.

 

[Recidiva]

Recidiva: You actually liked the film?

The Earl

The movie got slaughtered in so many ways by stupid actors doing stupid things, even Joss Whedon can't talk about Donald Sutherland now without frothing about how he decimated the script and nothing essentially made sense by the end, but I loved the bits that DID work, like Rutger Hauer and Paul Rubens.

 

[Ferawyn]

Ferawyn - not a Spike fan then?

Not really. It just never seemed believable after Angel that another vamp would fall for her. Now if it had been part of some season-spanning evil-plot story arc... He just seemed too much like a monster-of-the-week that stepped in some gum and got stuck to me.

<reads back his sentence then ponders why he bothered writing the word believable in a thread about a television series...>

 

[yui]

Oh, I don't disagree. Spike always had his emotions and his passions. But he could be cruel, merciless and downright evil along with them. He killed Ford, despite him delivering Buffy, he would've killed everyone in Lie to Me if given the chance, he took great pleasure in the pain and suffering of others. Just look at the malicious pleasure he took in tearing apart the Scoobies in The Yoko Effect. He worked from his passions, but his passions were built around evil.

Before Season 5 of course.

The Earl

I have more words on this topic, but I have to go for the moment. Curses!

And when I come back the lot of you will be gone and I will be talking to myself. Again. *sniff*

Recidiva: You actually liked the film?

The Earl

I'm sure you have other fine qualities, Recidiva, other than taste in movies; and at least four other people from the 90210 zip code liked it, too.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm sure you have other fine qualities, Recidiva, other than taste in movies; and at least four other people from the 90210 zip code liked it, too.

I have fine qualities? Damn, that might give me a responsibility toward others I'm not willing to shoulder. Take that back at once!

 

[a.j.angel]

Spike is just plain 'hot', enough said!

 

[Dar~]

Angel was whiny and he was too self loathing. Spike Reveled in what he was regardless of if it was good or evil, in love or in hate. He thrived and was a believeable character b/c like humans, his passions led him.
Angelus was always complainging abotu something . ."I have a soulblah blah blah!" he was only truly happy in his death when his soul was taken away.

Spike found a passion in love through being evil. Remember too that he tried to fight his passion for Buffy when he built a robot

 

[a.j.angel]

Angel was whiny and he was too self loathing. Spike Reveled in what he was regardless of if it was good or evil, in love or in hate. He thrived and was a believeable character b/c like humans, his passions led him.
Angelus was always complainging abotu something . ."I have a soulblah blah blah!" he was only truly happy in his death when his soul was taken away.

Spike found a passion in love through being evil. Remember too that he tried to fight his passion for Buffy when he built a robot

I absolutely agree with what you said, so ditto!

 

[elsol]

Sorry... Angelus whacking the Giles' little snickerdoo teacher.

Spike was evil but direct.

Angelus broke souls.

Didn't Angelus make the crazy vampire lady? By killing her whole family?

For fun!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[elsol]

Regardless of all this crap...

EVIL WILLOW!!!

Both the vampire version and the witch version.

She PEELED a guy!

Evil Willow wins! Fatality!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[English Lady]

Regardless of all this crap...

EVIL WILLOW!!!

Both the vampire version and the witch version.

She PEELED a guy!

Evil Willow wins! Fatality!

Sincerely,
ElSol

You'd get on well with my husband, Evil Willow would always win with him, especially Vamp Willow.


I've never seen Spike as really, truly evil. Wicked, bored, cheeky, naughty even, but not evil. His motives always seemed to be quite human, he liked to cause chaos and pain.

Angel = Evil, he was evil to the core, his Demon was nasty, nasty, nasty. He got off on the power trip, doing everything the most perverted and dark way possible till he twisted a person's soul and drove them out of their mind. He played only as long as he felt it fun, then Dinner time!


And Angel Spike comes second for me *grins at the wicked little fantasy now playing in her head*

 

[Recidiva]

Regardless of all this crap...

EVIL WILLOW!!!

Both the vampire version and the witch version.

She PEELED a guy!

Evil Willow wins! Fatality!

Sincerely,
ElSol

Since Evil Willow finally got to tell the cast and the writers what I'd been thinking for about two seasons, I was thrilled by anything she did.

ESPECIALLY the peeling.

There should be more peeling.

We're back to nudity, aren't we?

Oh well, more of that, too!

 

[Ferawyn]

Regardless of all this crap...

EVIL WILLOW!!!

Both the vampire version and the witch version.

She PEELED a guy!

Evil Willow wins! Fatality!

Sincerely,
ElSol

Yup. Willow was definately one of the coolest baddies in Buffy. They should have made thát last a season or two.

 

[elsol]

If Spike or Angelus saw Evil Willow coming, they'd pee their panties and run like crazy!

I on the other hand would have one of two reactions depending

a) Vampire Willow

BITE ME! BITE ME!

b) Witch Willow

*RUN ELSOL! RUN!*

'Cause Witch Willow is a lesbian so ain't likely any snickerdooing is going to be happening.

-----

Of course, evil Xander was still a wimp!

Sometimes I think Xander was only there for that one SUPER-HOT scene where Buffy dances with him... Jesus, I needed a cigarette after that! I actually felt BAD for a TV character.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Xander was a waste of space, Angel was an ugly, boring whimp, werewolf boy was cool (remember the episode when Buffy could read other people's thoughts, and while Xander kept thinking "sex-sex-sex", werewolf boy pondered about philosophy and what makes a soul an identity - deep shit!), and Spike was the coolest hottie I've ever seen.
I hated the end, it was such a waste of Spike.

 

[wishfulthinking]

But Spike lived another day to be on Angel.

I really hated how they took away Spike's balls in the last season. He was bad, and I loved it - until he 'loved' Buffy.

But for those who don't think Angel or Spike were truely evil, you have to admit their ambition was limited by their nature - didn't Spike say something like "why would I want to rid the world of all humans, they are like happy meals on legs".

Edited to add: I loved that show. It had so many good one liners that apply in real life. Don't play with your food

 

[Svenskaflicka]

"I may be a viscious, coldhearted piece of jello, but I've got impeccable timing."

 

[Just-Legal]

Spike

YUM

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