Shame and Humiliation

[AllardChardon]

Stella, how about sapling? As in, he was a tender young sapling, too young to know which end was up.

 

[AllardChardon]

XssVe,

Madonna has always been a favorite of mine due to her outlandishness and shock value in the beginning and her diesire to raise awarenss in later years. But, be married to her. That would be scary. I am a strong woman, but I doubt I could handle her, not that I need to or anything. She truly is an American Alpha Female in all ways, if not THE American Alpha Female.

Allard

 

[dr_mabeuse]

What's with my femaleness? I'm fighting for my humanity.

Not my right to be a woman. I'm fighting for the chance to be viewed as something other than female first.

That's what every.

Single.

Post.

I've made here, has been about.

Oh yeah, and some of them were about my perception that "Shame" is far too specific a term to cover all the negative bases.

If you want to be seen as something other than a female first, stop insisting that you're a female first.

I love you Stella, but you've gone off the deep end.

 

[NoJo]

If you want to be seen as something other than a female first, stop insisting that you're a female first.

I love you Stella, but you've gone off the deep end.

I want to be seen first as a sadistic maths teacher, then half an hour later as a dildo

 

[Guest]

I want to be seen first as a sadistic maths teacher, then half an hour later as a dildo

What's the difference?

 

[Saucy_Sage]

What's the difference?

Properly used, a dildo can cause pleasure. My question: did you really need the adjective "sadistic" in front of "maths teacher"?

 

[Safe_Bet]

Properly used, a dildo can cause pleasure. My question: did you really need the adjective "sadistic" in front of "maths teacher"?

Yes. It differentiates math teachers from other more benign PITAs such as hemorrhoids. It's the evil intent you see.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Funny, I always felt that way about English Lit teachers . . .

Except for Shakespeare, nothing I was ever assigned to read and I do mean nothing was worth opening the book for.

 

[Corylea]

No, but then, I don't think there are any epithets or anything shameful about the idea of a woman who can't perform sexually like there is for a man either.

You've forgotten that lovely word "frigid."

 

[Selena_Kitt]

You've forgotten that lovely word "frigid."

Indeed.

 

[xssve]

XssVe,

Madonna has always been a favorite of mine due to her outlandishness and shock value in the beginning and her diesire to raise awarenss in later years. But, be married to her. That would be scary. I am a strong woman, but I doubt I could handle her, not that I need to or anything. She truly is an American Alpha Female in all ways, if not THE American Alpha Female.

Allard

Madonna is very good at manipulating images, and she is truly an Alpha female - and ahead of her time, as evidenced by the poor reception of her latest incarnation, the wise woman, the old crone.

This is the most masculine of female archetypes, a woman past the stage of game playing and manipulation, the underlying tension of potential pregnancy no longer colors every action and word, and on one level she is asexual, while in practical terms, if she fucks it's because she wants to; she doesn't need to be coy, she can be as straightforward about it as she likes, the biological costs have been reduced to the same levels as the male and the taboos no longer apply. Nor is her lack of physical strength a detriment any longer, she is venerated in the same way as a wise man, for her insight and wisdom, she's above and beyond sexual politics.

The availability of contraceptive measures means that women can be that way from puberty, Joni Mitchell has always sort of subtly embodied this archetype, while Erica Jong embodies the more modern role.

Historically however, it's distinctly the role of the crone, who is also, incidentally, associated objectivity and an ironic sense of humor; she is always the one that mocks the hero, auguring and foreshadowing his downfall with mocking laughter.

The fecund woman represents biological life and death, the crone the larger tension between the persistence of knowledge; psychological/cultural life - and entropy.

 

[AllardChardon]

I always thought a woman was frigid by choice. I am not speaking about the women who are frigid due to trauma of some sort. I mean the women who find sex unappealing and do not want to be bothered with it. I knew one married woman who complained about her pussy stinking like her husband all the time. She hated the fact that he wanted to come in her. I always loved the added scent, myself, and how it got there.

ED is not a choice.

 

[xssve]

Sex is messy, and one of the symptoms of Narcissism is a pathological fear of being "dirty", a psychological symbol that often takes the form of compulsive cleanliness, germophobia, etc., like Howard Hughes, or Lady Macbeth, the classic example. But I do encounter it more frequently in woman w/regard to sex these days, and it's a huge component of the religious right's neurosis about anal sex, IMO, i.e., the symbol of corruption.

Narcissism is good for the economy, it sells a lot of personal hygiene products, virtually all advertising is based on the intensification of it.

 

[AllardChardon]

As yes, the crone. I am in my crone years, so be forewarned! LOL

 

[xssve]

Be warned yourself - I'm at the point where I have no interest in anything else.

 

[Guest]

I always thought a woman was frigid by choice. I am not speaking about the women who are frigid due to trauma of some sort. I mean the women who find sex unappealing and do not want to be bothered with it. I knew one married woman who complained about her pussy stinking like her husband all the time. She hated the fact that he wanted to come in her. I always loved the added scent, myself, and how it got there.

ED is not a choice.

But neither is the idea of being "frigid" necessarily a choice.

The loss of desire for sex can be medical as well, and is sometimes a symptom of a larger issue. Peri menopause (and further along into the process) can cause major disruption in the sex drive.

Anti-depressants can have a very negative effect on sexual desire, too, for years after discontinuing their use.

These problems are more often diagnosed in women as psychological, not physical, but if it could manifest in the form of ED more women would be treated.

Anyway.

 

[AllardChardon]

Okay, back to Madonna. I think that her reception as a 50 year old and a crone has not been good because she simply does not look the part. She looks harder now than when she started. Anyway, the bleached blonde look with black roots, impossible because some of those roots must be white now and died black to keep that youthful appearance, does not flatter her anymore. It is difficult to look like a hot 20 year old slut, Madonna's own choice for a fashion statement back when she started, when you are 50.

In my way of thinking, she has not aged gracefully even though she has all the advantages life could provide for this. She is fighting against the tide and refusing to accept her older age with dignity. Because fo this, she is not very believable as a "wise" woman for me. No matter how intelligent she might be and I am sure she is very intelligent.

 

[xssve]

The modern appellation for woman freed of reproduction taboos, is the modifier "liberated" - the more archaic term would be "bawd" probably, i.e., Mae West, Bette Midler when she isn't a Diva. Bawd is a relatively asexual term which however, retains the implications an underlying emotional vulnerability that the other symbols largely lack.

"Diva", of course, implies an independent form of femininity.

 

[AllardChardon]

Sweet Sub,

You are right, of course.

But, I was addressing the frigid women who are healthiy but do not like sex. Choose not to have it even if they are married. How many husbands write to me of their loneliness in their marriage due to their wife's lack of desire. In my world, ED is not a problem for the men, it is a problem for the women. Is it all chemically induced through screwy hormones or is it simply "no more interest", as I suspect. No more need. No children will come. Now I am a grandmother and can immerse myself in that and forget all about grandpa. I mean really.

Allard

 

[AllardChardon]

Bawd: 1. pander 2. a madam, prostitute, one who keep a house of prostitution.

Is this reference in regards to crones or Madonna or me? LOL

 

[xssve]

Okay, back to Madonna.

Interesting, Madonna for me is sort of a barometer of popular culture, and I'm always interested in the reactions she inspires. I kind of like it, it strikes me more as an effort to age gracefully, symbolizing a new paradigm for women that while it's really an old one, is largely depreciated, unpopular, and little understood in our Narcissistic, youth worshiping culture.

We are far more comfortable with and accustomed to the etiolated and exfoliated look of botoxed and facelifted women of a certain age, and we have little respect for wisdom as compensation for age.

 

[xssve]

Bawd: 1. pander 2. a madam, prostitute, one who keep a house of prostitution.

Is this reference in regards to crones or Madonna or me? LOL

None of the above.

The word doesn't have any associations with prostitution for me, the associations for me are more Elizabethan, Chaucer, etc.

 

[xssve]

i.e., the Bawd isn't coy about his/her sexuality, she's open and frank about it, a quality we normally associate more with men (negatively, I might add), but historically acceptable when not in mixed company - i.e., men can frank about sexuality with other men, women open about it with other women, etc., and it's a form of bonding ritual as well as an enculturation/learning experience

The Bawd specifically, however, is to my mind, one who is frank about sexuality in mixed company, scandalous, in an amusing way and has a verb form; "being bawdy", making bawdy comments", etc.

 

[xssve]

"Pervert" and "lecher" are pejoratives that technically can apply to either sex, but are typically associated with men - i.e., one who peruses fecund women in an unseemly manner, but largely lose their pejorative power if both parties are past reproductive concerns.

 

[AllardChardon]

Ah yes, the difference between the real definition of a word and "what that word means to me" crap. I usually reply with, "Re-Writing the dictionary, again, are we, Mr. Webster? (Sarcasm is an artform in my house, BTW)

Botox and face lifts. Well, that is not really aging gracefully, is it? Accepting the natural changes a human body goes through when the onslaught of hormones recedes into a more manageable flow? I think not.

No matter how fixated we are on youth, the fountain of youth is still a wonderful concept. Gaining one's youth back with all the experience of a lifetime still at your disposal... Ponce De Leon went looking for it and who can blame him?

But, since that fountain has not been found, it is easier to accept those subtle changes without fear if you have inner confidence. Self love. It is the single most important ingredient in anti-aging game.