Shame and Humiliation

[sr71plt]

And what's happening inside a woman's head during sex is about surrender, about letting her lover in deeper and deeper.

I can't go along with that generalization. What can be happening in some women's heads during sex could just as easily be about victory, drawing her lover deeper, deeper into her control. This would be classic "men driven by the need to ejaculate--an event--and women driven by the need to feather their nests--process."

 

[squirrelzo]

Perhaps that's true, but only because they've projected that split onto women and made women be the cultural carriers of sexual guilt and shame.

The virgin/whore thing is very much a male problem forced onto women. Girls know this. They know if they sleep with a guy on the first date they will be put in the "whore" category, whereas the boy won't for doing the exact same thing. Boys can have their fun,; girls cannot without suffering the consequences.

Sure many women have internalized it, but it doesn't make it inevitable or natural.
Its not some natural state of womanhood. Making a fetish of it and enjoying how the woman is forced to deal with this imprisoning construct is kinda weird.

But Im being specific about the virgin/whore thing. There are all kinds of more "legitimate" shame that people deal with.

Men, aside from TV evangelists and politicians, aren't torn between a good-boy persona and a repressed sexual one, so they don't come with this kind of built in tension. So a guy who's seduced by a sexually aggressive woman usually isn't going to spend time worrying about what kind of man he is, though he might.

As far as humiliating men, I don't think you have to go so far as a dojo or whatever. A woman's laugh when she sees his erection can be quite sufficient.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ah, this thread is back!

I've learned some new things since the last time I saw this. One of those things is; It's easy for men to fantasize about how they would react and be manly after being seduced or coerced by an aggressive woman. Most men, after all, never find themselves in that situation.

But men are slowly beginning to speak up about their experiences. Men who did not like it, who have been conflicted about it, who are sick and tired of being shamed by societal assessment. They have a battle to retrieve their sense of self.

 

[Sidney_1]

Allamigone, you're too kind (but I love it! )

Well, I see it kind of like this. The sexiest things in a sex story always happen in the characters' heads. Dick and pussies and tits just don't have that much to say, no matter how they flop, jiggle or roll, and all the thrusting and scratching and moaning and humping are sexy only because they tell us what the characters must be feeling inside. So it's really all internal.

And what's happening inside a woman's head during sex is about surrender, about letting her lover in deeper and deeper. He's already penetrated her body, but now he starts to penetrate her head and heart. He starts to penetrate her soul. That's how sex relates to love: it's a metaphor for accepting you lover into your heart and soul.

But her mind's not just an empty space. She has things in there: her self-image, her concerns, things she's ashamed of, things she wants. When the sex is very good and very intimate and intense, she gives these up. She violates her own strictures and taboos and limits. She gives him everything: her body, her shame, her trust, her former denial.

For men it's different. Men don't have so much ego involved. And take ti from one who knows: being the penetrated one is a whole lot different from being the penetrator, without doubt. That's why every man should be the catcher in a game of strap-on at least once in his life. You'll learn morew about women in that 5 minutes than you will in a year outside.

I'm not here to debate shame and humiliation, but I wandered to this thread and read this post.

This is the best explanation for how sex is perceived/experienced from my (a woman) POV. I didn't even have language to explain these feelings. So, thank you for giving my messy feelings a language. I really thought I was the only woman who felt this way. It is *huge* for me to trust someone and allow myself to be truly vulnerable with them. For men, it's no big, f'n deal, it seems.

So different. . .

 

[squirrelzo]

i dont agree

I know many women who can enjoy a fuck without letting a man (or woman) in emotionally.
In addition, being or becoming emotionally open and intimate does not have to be interpreted in terms of "penetration."
Case in point: a male can be or become just as emotionally open without being penetrated at all in a physical sense. After all "penetration" does not pierce the skin. Its just surfaces rubbing together. Its mutual openness.
Simply holding hands or kissing can demand an ego collapse from male or female. And can be just as threatening as a fuck.
The idea that men are less emotionally vulnerable because they have a cock is crap. If anything, Freud would say they are more vulnerable because their sex organ can be cut off.

I

I'm not here to debate shame and humiliation, but I wandered to this thread and read this post.

This is the best explanation for how sex is perceived/experienced from a woman's (or at least mine) POV. I didn't even have language to explain these feelings. So, thank you for giving my messy feelings a language. I really thought I was the only woman who felt this way. It is *huge* for me to trust someone and allow myself to be truly vulnerable with them. For men, it's no big, f'n deal, it seems.

So different. . .

 

[Sidney_1]

I know many women who can enjoy a fuck without letting a man (or woman) in emotionally.
In addition, being or becoming emotionally open and intimate does not have to be interpreted in terms of "penetration."
Case in point: a male can be or become just as emotionally open without being penetrated at all in a physical sense. After all "penetration" does not pierce the skin. Its just surfaces rubbing together. Its mutual openness.
Simply holding hands or kissing can demand an ego collapse from male or female. And can be just as threatening as a fuck.
The idea that men are less emotionally vulnerable because they have a cock is crap. If anything, Freud would say they are more vulnerable because their sex organ can be cut off.

I

You don't have to agree with me. I edited to make it more obvious that I'm speaking from my point of view and observation. I'm not a social scientist. But, I do agree with Dr. M and I thought he described my experience quite accurately.

 

[siobhansmut]

Yahoo or kik me...

 

[squirrelzo]

I meant to quote Dr. M's post, not yours. Sorry about that.

You don't have to agree with me. I edited to make it more obvious that I'm speaking from my point of view and observation. I'm not a social scientist. But, I do agree with Dr. M and I thought he described my experience quite accurately.