Politeness and Familiarity

[Calamity Jane]

Note: This is not directed at anyone on the board. It is something that I've been pondering for awhile now, and this seems like a good time to ask the question/begin the discussion.

That said...

Why does it seem that once we are familiar with people, it becomes ok to treat them with less kindness and consideration than those we've only just met?

Often in my life, I've been involved with people - usually family members or intimate friends - who think it is perfectly ok to say spiteful, hurtful things to me that they would never say to someone they weren't intimately aquainted with. The assumption seems to be that because it's a friend saying it, the pain shouldn't exist.

Sometimes the slight is less direct. While in the middle of an argument with my roommate in which she's yelling about how I never listen to her and don't respect her boundaries, the phone rings. She answers the phone, carefully polite, adn proceeds to nicely tell the telemarketer on the other end that she's not interested 5 or 6 times before they get the idea and let her hang up. This complete stranger has received more respect, more consideration, and more patience from my roommate than I do on a daily basis.

Why?





I'm not seeking advice for how to deal with rude people... but wondering if anyone else ahs noticed this type of behavior, and what they think the roots of it are.

 

[Rambling Rose]

Familiarity breeds contempt? It's not a cliched phrase for nothing!

 

[Calamity Jane]

Familiarity breeds contempt? It's not a cliched phrase for nothing!

Kind of what I was thinking. Can the contempt be avoided? Lived with? Beaten out of someone?

 

[lovetoread]

My ex husband would say things to me that he admitted he would never say to anyone else.

His excuse was that I was his wife and I should be able to handle anything he said. Like it was part and parcel of the marriage thing.

 

[bored1]

Familiarity breeds contempt? It's not a cliched phrase for nothing!

DAMN! You said it before me! But its so true. The thing with family and real close friends is that they still love and like you after you say hurtful things.

 

[Rambling Rose]

Can the contempt be avoided? Lived with? Beaten out of someone?

My mother tried her damndest, darlin'! Seriously, one or more calm and level headed conversations after the event might have some effect. Wait until you are in a good headspace and bring it up. Tell whoever is doing this that it is affecting your relationship with them. Tell them you can no longer tolerate it, and that you would not treat them with the same disrespect (you don't, do you?).

Whatever you do, keep a cool head and choose your time and your battle wisely. I was serious about my mother. She noticed a general tendency for me to show impatience with her and treat my friends with more kindness and tolerance. When she brought it to my attention in a calm but forthright manner, I was chagrinned and had to do some soul searching and a turnabout in my behaviours. This was many years ago, but the lesson still remains. It's easy to forget at times that, just because someone's love for you is as deep as the ocean, you can afford to take it for granted.

 

[Guest]

Yes, I witnessed the behaviors. When one treats loved ones, friends, family, or coworkers worse than a stranger on the road- there's a problem. Taking the connection and person for granted is often the culprit.

 

[patient1]

Maybe polite isn't the person's honest & intimate self. Maybe they feel accepted as they are ( after all, you're stuck with family), and have dropped the pretenses.

In the case of strangers, they want to make a good first impression.

It's just my nature to be polite.

 

[BustyTheClown]

Hm, this is a damn good question, PCG. I was thinking that, too, as I read some of the threads out there on similar subjects. I think that the "familiarity breeds contempt" is a good phrase -- it may be the norm, but it doesn't have to be. I think the biggest problem in my life when it comes to treating loved ones -- mostly my nuclear family -- with anger and harsh words is just lack of communication and openness. We get angry at the others and don't say anything; finally, we just blow up when something someone else does pisses us off enough. Otherwise, we tend to be really nice to each other.

Regarding the roommate situation... I drove off my roommate last year. I was going through some really tough personal times and I didn't feel like talking about it. Meanwhile, she and I grew farther and farther apart as I secluded myself more from the world. She would try talking to me, but it had gotten to the point that I didn't even know that I was saying nasty things to her or anything. Maybe she's going through something she hasn't talked about with you? Maybe if you talk to her about the whole treating you badly thing, you could ask if there's any unresolved conflicts she has with you that need to be aired out.

I'm sure your situation is a bit different, but I hope something I said struck a chord.

 

[Calamity Jane]

DAMN! You said it before me! But its so true. The thing with family and real close friends is that they still love and like you after you say hurtful things.

Does that make it ok to say those hurtful things though?

I think Raindancer is on target with the idea that it comes from taking another person for granted.

I try to treat everyone with a certain degree of consideration. I may say things in a joking manner to a friend that another might take offense at, but that is no the same thing as letting manners and respect fly out the window just because you know someone well.

A friend told me that I should by a draft horse that I was trying out because she was so huge she made even my ass look small. I laughed so hard I nearly fell off the horse. (and considered buying her for that reason ) I knew she was kidding around, and our relationship is such that there were no hurt feelings.

What I am talking about though, is the complete disregard for another's feelings that we exhibit while conversing or aguing with people we're intimate with. If you love someone, don't they deserve more consideration than a stranger on the telephone?

 

[Calamity Jane]

Hm, this is a damn good question, PCG. I was thinking that, too, as I read some of the threads out there on similar subjects. I think that the "familiarity breeds contempt" is a good phrase -- it may be the norm, but it doesn't have to be. I think the biggest problem in my life when it comes to treating loved ones -- mostly my nuclear family -- with anger and harsh words is just lack of communication and openness. We get angry at the others and don't say anything; finally, we just blow up when something someone else does pisses us off enough. Otherwise, we tend to be really nice to each other.

Good points, Busty, but I'm not talking about the abberations in behavior that arise during heated argument. I'm speaking of a general lack of consideration for those closest to us. Even of taking our frustrations with others out on those closest to us because they just happen to be there day after day.

Regarding the roommate situation... I drove off my roommate last year. I was going through some really tough personal times and I didn't feel like talking about it. Meanwhile, she and I grew farther and farther apart as I secluded myself more from the world. She would try talking to me, but it had gotten to the point that I didn't even know that I was saying nasty things to her or anything. Maybe she's going through something she hasn't talked about with you? Maybe if you talk to her about the whole treating you badly thing, you could ask if there's any unresolved conflicts she has with you that need to be aired out.

That was a hypothetical situation. I haven't had a roommate in 10 years.

I'm sure your situation is a bit different, but I hope something I said struck a chord.

 

[Rambling Rose]

I had another thought on this, PCG. Have you considered using a tape recorder? This past Christmas, my mother and I drove to New Orleans. On the second eveining of our trip, we were both tired from the previous day's drive and I was wanting dinner but she was not hungry.

We had been videotaping the Christmas lights around the city for my father who had been unnable to join us. I didn't realize I still had the recorder on, and the argument that sprung up between us was captured on that tape word for word, inflection for inflection. Later when we watched, I was mortified to hear myself talking to my mother in that tone of voice. Hearing myself was the key to really understanding how to remedy a problem that went beyond the immediate circumstances.

It's an idea anyway.

 

[Guest]

Ah Rose,

As you were posting, I was typing up a post with the same idea. Great minds think alike.

She's right, we really don't know what we sound like. There's an element of ignorance. Or maybe denial?

 

[Calamity Jane]

Ah Rose,

As you were posting, I was typing up a post with the same idea. Great minds think alike.

She's right, we really don't know what we sound like. There's an element of ignorance. Or maybe denial?

It's a good idea, I think few of us have any idea how we talk to people... or rather how we sound to them.

Again though, I think this is an overall societal thing, not just something I have to deal with now and then.

 

[Guest]

I agree PCG. There's a societal epidemic of disregard for the other person. I don't know if it's stress, overworking, fatigue, and or selfabsorption. And, I'm not speaking of a light, fluffy, polite hello. I am addressing overall attitude.

 

[freescorfr]

PaganCG, you get me going on my hobbyhorse again. When you feel offended, it is you and only you who is producing the feeling within you.

It is often hard to find words for your feeling which belong to what is going on in you. It is easier to externalise it and blame whovever has said what you feel is spiteful as being crass, ignorant etc..

OK your room-mate is curt with you and not with a telemarketer. That I'm sure is true. But what do you then feel? Less valued? Rejected? Unrecognised? - Other feelings maybe. But if you check it out with her, she'll say she values you, recognises you, accepts you for what you are.... so the reality check shows that these feelings are produced in you - not by her. She couldn't give a toss for the telemarketer.

This happens B]all[/B] the time.

What the other person says is the trigger for awakening in you a sensitive area - a hurt. It takes you back to to not being recognised by your dad because you were a girl, or being overlooked at school for a team, often relatively trivial things which have stuck - sometimes really big.

The closer a person is to us the more easily we access our inner wounds. They are less closed off - we are more exposed. So it is those who are close to us who can say things which touch the nerves within us. A room-mate is close enough for that - a parent or a partner, even worse.


That's why we don't murder strangers nearly as often as people we love.

 

[Guest]

While I understand your approach, freescorfr, I do not think your theory applies for every situation. We do bring all of our baggage into every minute of every day. But that doesn't negate the total disregard that seems to be prevelant in society. From a psychological standpoint, past experiences are valid in the realm of psychosomatic reactions. But feeling disregarded can, simply, be the result of disregard.

 

[Calamity Jane]

PaganCG, you get me going on my hobbyhorse again. When you feel offended, it is you and only you who is producing the feeling within you.

It is often hard to find words for your feeling which belong to what is going on in you. It is easier to externalise it and blame whovever has said what you feel is spiteful as being crass, ignorant etc..

OK your room-mate is curt with you and not with a telemarketer. That I'm sure is true. But what do you then feel? Less valued? Rejected? Unrecognised? - Other feelings maybe. But if you check it out with her, she'll say she values you, recognises you, accepts you for what you are.... so the reality check shows that these feelings are produced in you - not by her. She couldn't give a toss for the telemarketer.

This happens all the time.

What the other person says is the trigger for awakening in you a sensitive area - a hurt. It takes you back to to not being recognised by your dad because you were a girl, or being overlooked at school for a team, often relatively trivial things which have stuck - sometimes really big.

Of course it does, that's the nature of life. But does that person bear no responsibility? For example, I was abused as a child. There are things that partners have done in the past that make me feel just like that scared little girl again. That is my reaction to a trigger. However, if someone is aware of the abuse, is aware of the triggers, and still engages in a specific trigger behavior out of complete disregard for how it makes me react, don't they share in the responsibility for my feelings of 'smallness'?

A similar 'for instance' I can't handle yelling. I know why I can't handle yelling, and I've explained it more times than I can count to my SO. Yet his first and only reaction to stress is to scream. Yes, it's my problem that it makes me cringe, but shouldn't he have enough consideration to acknowledge my reaction and attempt to modify his behaviors?

I'm sure I could list a thousand examples... and perhaps I should. But regardless of how i 'feel' about certain interactions, sometimes the intent is to wound without regard for anything else. It's that intent that I fail to understand when applied to those we claim to love.

The closer a person is to us the more easily we access our inner wounds. They are less closed off - we are more exposed. So it is those who are close to us who can say things which touch the nerves within us. A room-mate is close enough for that - a parent or a partner, even worse.


That's why we don't murder strangers nearly as often as people we love.

But, short of killing those we love, is there a way to communicate the feelings, and raise the level of consideration?

 

[paganangel]

well pcg, yo've nailed what used to be one of my pet peeves. yes, familiarity does breed contempt. but that is not always the reason.
lemme tellya'll a story. pull a stool up to the bar.

my dad use to come home from work all pissed off. maybe i hadn't done my homework or cleaned my room. smack. beatdown!
as i got older i might come home late. smack, beatdown. i'd spend too long on the phone or in the bathroom. smack. beatdown. obviously this goes beyond inconsiderate behavior.

i'd often come in the door from school and ignore my mother. i disobeyed over small things based on principle and showed a complete inability to pick my battles. eventually i could care less about being on time or pleasing my parents in ny way.

so why? what's the point? my father treated me the way he did, the way he would never treat a stranger, friend or coworker, for the same reason i treated him theway i did.

i can pick up the phone right now, right now, this very minute, and say dad i need your help, and i'll have it.

neither one of us is going anywhere. even in relationships which are not familial, we often take one another for granted because we feel we can. we feel safe in doing so. in an odd way it is a sign of caring, commitment, and confidence. it says, "you'll be here after this..."
if you feel this makes taking one for granted even worse (i'm not necessarily inclined to disagree) consider this: the above quoted sentence finishes, "...and so will i."

 

[bored1]

Does that make it ok to say those hurtful things though?

I think Raindancer is on target with the idea that it comes from taking another person for granted.

I try to treat everyone with a certain degree of consideration. I may say things in a joking manner to a friend that another might take offense at, but that is no the same thing as letting manners and respect fly out the window just because you know someone well.

A friend told me that I should by a draft horse that I was trying out because she was so huge she made even my ass look small. I laughed so hard I nearly fell off the horse. (and considered buying her for that reason ) I knew she was kidding around, and our relationship is such that there were no hurt feelings.

What I am talking about though, is the complete disregard for another's feelings that we exhibit while conversing or aguing with people we're intimate with. If you love someone, don't they deserve more consideration than a stranger on the telephone?

Sometimes we say things to the people we love not meaning to hurt their feelings, But we do. I try real hard not to say malicious / hurtful things to the people I love. A few years ago I was having dinner at my parents. It was a typical family dinner with the normal ammount of dysfunction, The conversation turned to why I didnt like my cousins, I was really hot under the collar and finally told my parents that I was molested by my cousins as a boy. My father told me to go to hell! Now I was really pissed. I stormed out of the house HURT and confused. I couldnt understand why he would respond like that. A few days later he called and apoligized to me. I accepted the apology. Life goes on. After that day my relationship with my father changed, he realized he had crossed the line. I dont think he meant to hurt me, he just reacted without thinking. We do take the people we love for granted, its human nature to become complacent. Its also normal to lash out without thinking. Especially to the people who will always be there for us.

 

[cymbidia]

We assume, we know, we trust that the other person will always be there, no matter what we say or how harshly it comes out because, after all, they are intimates in our lives.

We know what to say to hurt them, and they know that of us.

We use that knowledge on occasion (or more often, sadly) to hurt them, deliberately -or- we speak sharply, unkindly and don't take care to modulate our tone because, after all, that person is our intimate and will always be there.

Circular logic?
Of course - but true, nonetheless.


As humans, we have a genetic need to pull people into our corner, to people our lives with people who will "have our back", so to speak. We do it instinctually, as a way to keep the dark and cold from hurting us.

Unfortunately, after we have those people at our back, we shove them to the side and search for others to draw in, too, to keep more of the dark cold from our lives. In drawing-in the second set, we neglect and abuse the first set of people because there's only so much of us to go around. Besides, we *have* that first set already. They're ours. We don't have to charm them into the circle round our small campfire anymore.

Ultimately, each of us is alone. We feather our nests with others to keep from becoming too aware of that reality, and those we are closest to are also those we can hurt with impunity because they need us as much as we need them.

As civilized people, i think we have to struggle not to give into our instincts to become relaxedly unkind to those with whom we are close. It only hurts the feelings of everyone involved.

Some of us are more aware of our internal and instinctual impulses in these kinds of things than are others of us. The best we can do then is to educate those we are close to in the unkindnesses they offer without really intending them - and ask they be more aware and sensitive to the hurt offered in such a manner.

That's my take on it, anyway.