Obedience and transparency

[rinka]

Yes. But those collisions often fuel his interests. He gets off on the fact that he can't control my feelings and desires, while he can control my actions.

You've been mentioning in regards to yourself that negative feelings or resistance arise during certain activities, and you feel like you've failed. This happens with us too, but it's taken as par for the course, instead of as a failure. He would usually prefer for me to express pleasure and eagerness in whatever he asks, and sometimes I do, but it's not humanly possible to respond with enthusiasm every time we interact (at least for me).

I had one play relationship where I never showed negative emotions, and it was a kind of fantasy-bliss, but it had no bearing on a real life partnership. It was a little escape into an unreal world, clearly defined and definitely limited. We could leave our bad selves at the door and play at something that could never exist for longer than a matter of hours. Negative emotions that were generated by this relationship were dealt with outside of the relationship, which is tricky because they were expressed in contexts that had nothing to do with the original trigger - very problematic in my opinion when that context included my kids, for instance.

Any relationship has to include allowances for negative emotions, in both parties. There are times when I can clearly see how my reactions are obstacles, and when they are I do think I have to take responsibility for working through them. But I think it would be unreasonable of me to expect of myself that I would never express opposition or discomfort.

I felt that I was allowed my negative emotions, just that the impact they had on him was too big. I sometimes need a little (or a lot) coercion to overcome that spontaneous resistance.

It's interesting how you describe that he feeds off of your responses whether they are positive negative. Maybe that is how transparency can work best.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I totally hate not knowing what it is expected from me. I think as pyl we often get hung up on "doing it right" instead of just "doing it". Hence "Just do it" is the best way to shut up my mind and for the PYL to get my obedience.

This.

 

[rinka]

After the conversation earlier in the thread, I thought a bit about why some of us must know everything and flourish when given the freedom to speak our thoughts or minds. I can only speak for me, but personally, I'm prone to over-analysing and in-depth dissection, but that usually only comes up in situations where boundaries are not clearly defined, or it's a new situation (which I guess is the same thing). If boundaries are fuzzy or I'm in unfamiliar territory, wheels just keep spinning until I figure it out and it makes sense, or he makes it make sense. I think it ultimately comes from a place of wanting to please him. I don't like making mistakes (mild perfectionist flaw) and I want to do things right for him. Partial instructions, new territory, etc. leave me feeling off-balance. If I'm unsure, I want to be sure so I can do it right. It doesn't mean constant reassurance over every decision or situation is needed, new situations don't come up too often. Clarifying instructions or a simple "don't worry about it, just do it" fix it all just fine.

That also doesn't mean that every minor thing is questioned, or that questions are asked the instant the thought pops in mind. I'm a huge advocate of "choose your battles" and "choose your battleground." Not every little thing is worth comment. Most aren't, at least not right then. Big issues deserve mention immediately, but bringing up every minor annoyance would easily fall under the realm of nagging. We share a journal, and after a few hours or a day or two (I don't write in it every night), only the things that are still in mind when I sit down and start writing go in there. Probably 98% of things don't make the cut. If he asks, I'll share my thoughts, but usually after a bit of time, I'm unsure why I was even annoyed at the time and chalk it up to me being in a bad mood just then, not something that needs addressing in any way other than to remind myself, "don't be a bitch/paranoid/brat/lazy/whatever."

For me I think new situations and the following insecurity triggers my resistance. Not sure it's from wanting to do right, think it's more my natural defense mechanisms. Not knowing where it will lead, what I will have to give up, what will be exposed...

Been there, suffered that. Had a fight over it, learned my lesson, LOL.
(Hence the following the script).

I too find it easier to be the "perfect pyl" in my external D/s relationship than in my marriage. And I bet the Sadist finds it easier to be the "perfect PYL" in our relationship than in his own marriage (his marriage is D/s as well).

It is not the lack of emotional entanglement, or commitment, or submission.
It is the fact that having a time/distance buffer for when emotions run high, allows me not to lose sight of the big picture and I get to work my own end of the struggle, before bringing forth only what really needs to be discussed (and more often than not there is really nothing to discuss.)

I'm trying to bring the delayed approach within the marriage as well. It is much harder to do though when living together and trying not to let any struggle "leak" into the mundane and daily necessary interactions.

But as eastern sun said it much better below:

I totally hate not knowing what it is expected from me. I think as pyl we often get hung up on "doing it right" instead of just "doing it". Hence "Just do it" is the best way to shut up my mind and for the PYL to get my obedience.

Yes, "just do it" takes the control away. Can take the pressure off. That feeling of not having a choice can be liberating for me. Even if it's not about doing it right as much as having to choose to go there. Just take me there, instead.

 

[eastern sun]

For me I think new situations and the following insecurity triggers my resistance. Not sure it's from wanting to do right, think it's more my natural defense mechanisms. Not knowing where it will lead, what I will have to give up, what will be exposed...

Yes, "just do it" takes the control away. Can take the pressure off. That feeling of not having a choice can be liberating for me. Even if it's not about doing it right as much as having to choose to go there. Just take me there, instead.

I totally agree that "just do it" bypasses the problems of trying to "do it right." (Although in the long run, doing it right does seem to be the goal.) I think it can be problematic though when you turn "just do it" into "take me there."

"Take me there" actually includes an idea of where you're going, especially if you've had the experience of really letting go and want to experience it again, or stood right at the edge of letting go and want to actually do it, or spent a good time fantasizing about what it will be like when you're finally "there." This preconceived notion of "there" comes smack up against a very messy, sticky, painful, boring and/or frightening reality which isn't necessarily what we hoped for.

Obviously I've run into this problem myself. I think there needs to be a choice in the pyl's part to be an active participant in a mutual experience in order to fundamentally bypass some of those emotional obstacles. By taking full responsibility for your choice to be "there," you are much more likely to make the small decisions and actions during a scene that can alleviate your own self-imposed anxieties and discomforts, and allow you to fully release yourself to the moment.

 

[rinka]

I totally agree that "just do it" bypasses the problems of trying to "do it right." (Although in the long run, doing it right does seem to be the goal.) I think it can be problematic though when you turn "just do it" into "take me there."

"Take me there" actually includes an idea of where you're going, especially if you've had the experience of really letting go and want to experience it again, or stood right at the edge of letting go and want to actually do it, or spent a good time fantasizing about what it will be like when you're finally "there." This preconceived notion of "there" comes smack up against a very messy, sticky, painful, boring and/or frightening reality which isn't necessarily what we hoped for.

Obviously I've run into this problem myself. I think there needs to be a choice in the pyl's part to be an active participant in a mutual experience in order to fundamentally bypass some of those emotional obstacles. By taking full responsibility for your choice to be "there," you are much more likely to make the small decisions and actions during a scene that can alleviate your own self-imposed anxieties and discomforts, and allow you to fully release yourself to the moment.

Yes, but for me that choice is sometimes so hard to make. My mind goes into warpspeed, all defenses kick in and that choice seems to have all these possible ramifications. And yes, it's a bit of a cop out to want to be taken instead of actively choosing and submitting. And I do want to let go.

Maybe it's the difference between submitting and wanting to be dominated. Right now I'm more incliced towards the second, but maybe with more experience I'll be able to take more responsibility for that choice myself.