Disobedient subs

[Andraste]

not romanticized at all, just real. i agree with Netzach, in that if the s-type is able to decide that willful disobedience is okay or acceptable under any circumstances, then we are no longer talking about a D/s relationship.

nope, we're just not talking about YOUR type of d/s relationship.

because it sure as hell isn't vanilla!

 

[Netzach]

You are probably right. My flavor of D/s is one in which being manipulated into reactions shatters my sense of being in control. Other people can deal with it / thrive on it, I suppose. I don't see them as particularly in control in that dynamic as an outsider, but if it makes them happy, grand. Being baited into conflicts is something I can do at home on any major holiday.

 

[Netzach]

I agree with you, Netzach - actions speak louder than words and one of the core tenants of being a sub/slave/pyl is to obey. However, I just can't fathom a sub not getting upset about something and saying "piss off" to their PYL.

Besides being hilarious, Andraste also has a point.. just because you are a pyl, does that automatically make you a lemming?

1. I've been told to piss off by my husband. Liberally and frequently, usually to jerk my chain because he planned on doing it anyway. Makes him happy to make me happy, just needs to jerk my chain and tease because that's how he is.

2. My slave is not a lemming. He's a giant pain in the ass, one of those people who can't ever shut up without letting his organization know his expert opinion. He would never dream of telling me to piss off, kidding or otherwise. It's not the agreement, it's not built into the arrangement. Being owned doesn't mean your the world's bitch just because you save you're "spunk" for the rest of the world.

 

[Andraste]

You are probably right. My flavor of D/s is one in which being manipulated into reactions shatters my sense of being in control. Other people can deal with it / thrive on it, I suppose. I don't see them as particularly in control in that dynamic as an outsider, but if it makes them happy, grand.

the point is that they thwart my efforts to manipulate.

if they can't do that, if they're only topping mebecause they own the right costume, if they aren't mentally more agile then...i don't want to sub to that!

my last could do just that. he could spot the game a mile away, before it left the starting block.
he'd just chuckle and say "topping from the bottom are we, baby?"
it'd stop me in my tracks. confronted with my game, i just felt silly.
and the fact that he could do that with me, when nilla men would be tied in circles, gave me huge respect for him.
and he thouroughly enjoyed it.

oh, he was totally in control!

 

[ownedsubgal]

nope, we're just not talking about YOUR type of d/s relationship.

because it sure as hell isn't vanilla!

there are a slew of relationship dynamics which are not D/s OR vanilla, it's not one or the other. but a relationship in which the bottom manipulates and obeys only when they're in the mood to do so, and the Top is permitting of that, is a far cry from D/s of ANY sort.

 

[Andraste]

I agree with you, Netzach - actions speak louder than words and one of the core tenants of being a sub/slave/pyl is to obey. However, I just can't fathom a sub not getting upset about something and saying "piss off" to their PYL.

Besides being hilarious, Andraste also has a point.. just because you are a pyl, does that automatically make you a lemming?

comedy value is cool

 

[ownedsubgal]

I agree with you, Netzach - actions speak louder than words and one of the core tenants of being a sub/slave/pyl is to obey. However, I just can't fathom a sub not getting upset about something and saying "piss off" to their PYL.

Besides being hilarious, Andraste also has a point.. just because you are a pyl, does that automatically make you a lemming?

since when does obedience and submission...DESPITE heated emotions...equate to being a lemming?

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[HottieMama]

Besides being hilarious, Andraste also has a point.. just because you are a pyl, does that automatically make you a lemming?

Nope, not a lemming at all...in case you couldn't guess. In every D/s relationship that i have been in there was always the option for "discussion." My PYL's word was law but we could discuss how/why He wanted things that way. It works for my overly analytical self.

 

[Andraste]

there are a slew of relationship dynamics which are not D/s OR vanilla, it's not one or the other. but a relationship in which the bottom manipulates and obeys only when they're in the mood to do so, and the Top is permitting of that, is a far cry from D/s of ANY sort.

bullshit.

if she manipulates & obeys when accvording to the TOP'S mood, then it's totally d/s!

as long as she knows when his mood says "shut up & behave", and she obeys that whim, it's as d/s as any "subbier than thou" set up.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ah I'm with Netzach and osg on this one...if you want to play games, fine, just don't expect to play them around me and call it D/s. If I wanted a relationship where I chose when I wanted to submit, and when I wanted to tell him to go jump in the lake, I would have stayed in the vanilla pool, or just been a bedroom submissive on every 2nd weekend...if you need to do that to keep it interesting, also fine, but for me it only remains interesting because there are no 'on again off again' games being played, the challenge remains constant and full on.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

the point is that they thwart my efforts to manipulate.

if they can't do that, if they're only topping mebecause they own the right costume, if they aren't mentally more agile then...i don't want to sub to that!

my last could do just that. he could spot the game a mile away, before it left the starting block.
he'd just chuckle and say "topping from the bottom are we, baby?"
it'd stop me in my tracks. confronted with my game, i just felt silly.
and the fact that he could do that with me, when nilla men would be tied in circles, gave me huge respect for him.
and he thouroughly enjoyed it.

oh, he was totally in control!

You could also argue that "efforts to manipulate" which are limited to something as un-shrewd as "no no no make me ha" aren't nearly as interesting as those which the sub herself/himself doesn't even see till they're pointed out. Way more satisfying to catch 'em at. I am SURE your artillery was bigger than just "thpppbbthhhht nyah nyah."

 

[ownedsubgal]

Oh you phrased that so well... thank you.

(I think I might have said something similar, but in a much more offensive way. LOL)

haha, you're welcome.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

If you enjoy being punished than i would say ur master dunno how to punish you!! If u like it and even enjoying it then the punishment lose it sence doesnt it?

 

[graceanne]

We all want peace and harmony in our relationships BUT I find it hard to believe that not one sub has gotten so pissed off at their D and just gone totally off the program and spent the money being saved for D's new "gotta have it" and went to the mall/bass pro shop and got something for themselves.

I'm sorry, that's childish and silly. I can be sammy with the best of them, but if I'm pissed off I'm adult enough to let him know by TELLING him.

Sor tof off topic---May someone tell this Lit newbie what "sammy" means? Thanks.

Smart Ass Masochist

Ok, finished reading what everyone's written while I was doing laundry. I want to specify - K considers my behavior to be joking. If he tells me to do something and I said 'NO', he doesn't care because I'm in the process of doing it when I say that - I'm just giving him a hard time. If I can't do something, for whatever reason, I let him know.

Also, if he wants to beat my ass he can, and he doesn't need a reason to do it. We had issues at one point of him pretending I'd been bad so that he could spank me, and he and I had to have a discussion. I do not find that fun, or arrousing. It makes me feel guilty, even if I know he's joking. Punishment is that PUNISHMENT, and whether it's joking or not is NOT FUN! Isn't that the point?

And, I know I joke and all that, and call myself bratty, but I am in no ways childish. To tell the truth I'm just sarcastic and a smart ass. The way I act here on lit is an aberation - it's me pretending. In truth I'm an overly serious, boring, 'soccer mom' who spends most of her spare time reading and surfing the net.

 

[Netzach]

K considers my behavior to be joking. If he tells me to do something and I said 'NO', he doesn't care because I'm in the process of doing it when I say that - I'm just giving him a hard time.

1. I've been told to piss off by my husband. Liberally and frequently, usually to jerk my chain because he planned on doing it anyway. Makes him happy to make me happy, just needs to jerk my chain and tease because that's how he is.

Is it something in the water?

 

[graceanne]

Is it something in the water?

LOL I suspect your husband and I have a lot in common - we have no control over our mouths.

 

[Betticus]

LOL I suspect your husband and I have a lot in common - we have no control over our mouths.

Well, if it isn't lil miss sammypants!

 

[catalina_francisco]

We all want peace and harmony in our relationships BUT I find it hard to believe that not one sub has gotten so pissed off at their D and just gone totally off the program and spent the money being saved for D's new "gotta have it" and went to the mall/bass pro shop and got something for themselves.[/SIZE]

LOL, you just practice a different brand of D/s to some of us then obviously. As to spending his money as a way of retaliating against some imaginary slight, apart from childish, it just ain't going to happen because I don't like buying unnecessarily, especially as it is his money...he has to just about order me to buy things for myself, especially clothes. Talking is a much better way of dealing with it than striking out.

Catalina

 

[ecstaticsub]

I agree with you, Netzach - actions speak louder than words and one of the core tenants of being a sub/slave/pyl is to obey. However, I just can't fathom a sub not getting upset about something and saying "piss off" to their PYL.

Besides being hilarious, Andraste also has a point.. just because you are a pyl, does that automatically make you a lemming?

As my Dom has told me over and over again, it is ok if I get pissed off, if I am unhappy with him, if I get angry. Neither of us can control my emotions and I have the right to feel as I feel. But if I choose not to submit then I am not a submissive or at least not his. I still have to obey or at least talk to him about why I am having trouble doing what he asks of me. I ask for clarification often, especially at the beginning and he was more than willing to assist me to get into the right headspace to obey him. I don't just ignore him or his commands. What would be the point?

 

[Andraste]

You could also argue that "efforts to manipulate" which are limited to something as un-shrewd as "no no no make me ha" aren't nearly as interesting as those which the sub herself/himself doesn't even see till they're pointed out. Way more satisfying to catch 'em at. I am SURE your artillery was bigger than just "thpppbbthhhht nyah nyah."

because i wouldn't simplify the situation for the sake of a post, or even post about more than one scenario.

:avery:

nope, lots of the time it's those games i don't even realise i'm playing.
it's just my nature.

if he's the dom for me then he knows how to stop them with barely a raised brow...but sometimes he'll choose not to, because it's fun!

 

[Andraste]

I dont like disobey my master for one simple reason, i hate the fact he chould be dissapointed in me

that's the line for me.

if i misjudge, if i push too far, if i actually disappoint him...it's the worst feeling.

feels like my heart is made of lead. you can count on tears as soon as i'm alone to shed them.

because the games i play are only ever to his limits.

...just thinking about that makes me sad

 

[serijules]

Just some random thoughts on this topic...

Chris...perhaps you simply don't understand what being submissive or slave is about for many of us? Obeying DESPITE feelings of wanting to tell the dom to piss of is exactly what makes some of us relate to the word submissive. Otherwise, where would that submission exist? Obeying and acting in certain ways that have been laid out by the dominant despite your own feelings on the matter is how many would define submission.

Do I get mad at my owner? Hell yes...she pisses me off often. It never is displayed in my actions however. It's not what I feel that matters...I am allowed to feel whatever I wish to. It's what I DO with those feelings that she cares about, that creates the D/s dynamic between us. So if she has pissed me off to no end and then orders me to do something I don't want to do, I am going to say "yes Ma'am" and do it. The anger may be obvious in my eyes or in the stiffness of my body, and that is allowed and acceptable. What she cares about is do I obey? Yes, I do or as Netz so eloquently stated, the D/s ceases to exist.

I "get in trouble" now and then, and punishment is a part of our relationship. I hate being punished as I hate disappointing her. I don't do things to purposely get punished even though I love pain. Pain stemming from disappointment is not a kind of pain I love. It's more of a "stub your toe" kind of pain. Very few people, masochist or not, enjoy stubbing their toes.

The things I am corrected or punished for are things that are usually just human mistakes. However, Ma'am understands my need to be corrected and kept in check, and I understand her need to be strict and have high expectations. Punishment is a ritual for us, a way to resolve problems and move on from them, for both of us.

If I forget one of my rules, I may be punished for it even though I didn't intentionally disobey her. I also didn't do what is expected of me to make sure that I DON'T forget things (keep notes and reminders in my phone, create habits, etc). Thus, I am punished for forgetting medication, not changing the sheets on the bed or cleaning up after a session, for failing to thank her properly, whathaveyou. I've been taught to do these things, not need reminders, and to do them well. Forgetting is not a good excuse, even if it is a human one. None of them are intentional transgressions, but they are still transgressions in our relationship that are met with correction.

Sometimes the punishment is a bit more "not real". She will lecture me and slap me for being "mouthy", even if usually the comment would have been just fine for me to state without it being seen as disrespectful. It's more of a subtle power game than any real punishment, even if the tone behind it is one of punishment. She enjoys slapping me. Most of the time she doesn't need a reason. Now and then, she wants one and if one doesn't present itself, she'll make one up from what IS there. Works for us. Every now and then I will even push for such a thing, but I know how to do so without being honestly disrespectful, I know how to read her and know when it will be taken as what it is...**** and games. We are not ALWAYS serious!

Sometimes she will transgressions slide with a warning, sometimes she will not. I don't ever deliberately disobey her though. It just isn't something she allows or I have any inclination to do. I bet a lot of parents want to smack the hell out of their kids sometimes, but most refrain. Does that make their parenting skills romanticized?

I tend to think it just simply makes them good parents.

I'm simply a good slave based on my Owners expectations.

 

[HottieMama]

I am waiting for the who's the subbiest and who's the Domliest pissing match to begin.

i think we all need to remember that somewhere WAY back on page one...Chris said He considered a bit of brattiness as "foreplay," so i can see where He is coming from with a lot of His comments. Doesn't make Him any less Domly or different from anyone else. We all have things that turn us on that may not be considered normal. It's just a matter of Him having the right pyl that knows how to walk the line between brat and bitch.

 

[ownedsubgal]

serijules, that was a beautiful post. just thought you should know that.