Defining Love

[Cathleen]

Apparently:

Nut! Just keep the help coming ok? Please... pretty please with a nice shiraz on top?

 

[midwestyankee]

Nut! Just keep the help coming ok? Please... pretty please with a nice shiraz on top?

Now how could I say no to this?

 

[wicked woman]

You just did...thank you.

Modifying our beliefs can be extremely difficult. While she didn't say it quite this way, I suspect that WW would agree with me that one way to change your beliefs that may be easier than others is to experience something that permanently alters them. And sometimes we have to recognize the opportunity to have such an experience and then allow ourselves to enter into it with full attention.

This has worked for me, btw.

Just another few cents worth for the pensive.

And why might you say I'd say that yank? *giggle* (rhetorical question) But yes you're right...

I agree with both of you and just last night seized an opportunity to alter one of those beliefs. Experience is the best teacher for me.

Way to go Cate. I agree...theory works, but experience works better.

 

[midwestyankee]

And why might you say I'd say that yank? *giggle* (rhetorical question) But yes you're right...




Way to go Cate. I agree...theory works, but experience works better.

Experience pays better as well.

 

[shell seeker2]

I think experience is the best way to learn (most times harder, but it's the most important way to learn). I remember taking all these classes in college (duh, that's why I was there) about teaching. Learning about teaching and actually teaching are two totally different things. I have learned more from actually teaching than I ever did from college.
I got to thinking about a friend of mine in college who had a radio show. He always ended it with, You only live once, and once is enough if you do it right. Love somebody!

 

[midwestyankee]

I think experience is the best way to learn (most times harder, but it's the most important way to learn). I remember taking all these classes in college (duh, that's why I was there) about teaching. Learning about teaching and actually teaching are two totally different things. I have learned more from actually teaching than I ever did from college.
I got to thinking about a friend of mine in college who had a radio show. He always ended it with, You only live once, and once is enough if you do it right. Love somebody!

Good teaching is much like good loving. To teach well you must think and act mostly in your pupil's best interests. To love well, you must think and act mostly in your beloved's best interests. Anything else is ego-driven and less loving.

 

[Cathleen]

Good teaching is much like good loving. To teach well you must think and act mostly in your pupil's best interests. To love well, you must think and act mostly in your beloved's best interests. Anything else is ego-driven and less loving.

Man do I ever need a teacher now... I suppose that really is more of a YKYSFW thought though.

 

[SweetErika]

I hope this isn't a repeat...I've read the thread multiple times, but don't recall. At 24, sometimes I think I'm already well on my way to senility.

I was talking with some friends the other night, and it became clear that we all had varying ideas of loving vs. being in love. Some of the questions posed were:

-What's the difference between loving and being in love?

-Does sexual involvement necessarily mean you're in love? Or, can you just love someone, but also be sexual with them without it meaning you're in love?
Edit/Clarification: A friend theorized that you can love someone, but being sexual with them meant you were in love...that's the difference between love and in love. For example, I love a friend, but because I'm not (and have no designs to be) sexual with him, I'm not in love with him. Yet if I love him and am sexual, it necessarily means I'm also in love with him. I'm curious to hear how others think about the connection between sex and love vs. being in love.

-How do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

I have more related questions, but I'll save them. At any rate, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on these questions.

 

[Cathleen]

I hope this isn't a repeat...I've read the thread multiple times, but don't recall. At 24, sometimes I think I'm already well on my way to senility.

I was talking with some friends the other night, and it became clear that we all had varying ideas of loving vs. being in love. Some of the questions posed were:

-What's the difference between loving and being in love?

-Does sexual involvement mean you're in love? Or, can you love someone and be sexual with them?

-How do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

I have more related questions, but I'll save them. At any rate, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on these questions.

My hero! Thank you Erika, my mind has turned silly on me... I'll give these time to bound off the walls of my mind and then respond.

I loved, loved, loved your WFMS post yesterday - it was beautiful.

 

[SweetErika]

My hero! Thank you Erika, my mind has turned silly on me... I'll give these time to bound off the walls of my mind and then respond.

I loved, loved, loved your WFMS post yesterday - it was beautiful.

At least I'm in good company, eh? I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts...they always have an impact on me.

Oh, and I did see your (and quoll's) responses, and they made me all warm and fuzzy inside. A year ago, I would have laughed at the thought, but there really is a lot of love right here in this community. What a blessing it is to have such a concentration of big hearts and minds!

 

[Cathleen]

At least I'm in good company, eh? I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts...they always have an impact on me.

Oh, and I did see your (and quoll's) responses, and they made me all warm and fuzzy inside. A year ago, I would have laughed at the thought, but there really is a lot of love right here in this community. What a blessing it is to have such a concentration of big hearts and minds!

Absolutely!

 

[midwestyankee]

I hope this isn't a repeat...I've read the thread multiple times, but don't recall. At 24, sometimes I think I'm already well on my way to senility.

I was talking with some friends the other night, and it became clear that we all had varying ideas of loving vs. being in love. Some of the questions posed were:

-What's the difference between loving and being in love?

-Does sexual involvement mean you're in love? Or, can you love someone and be sexual with them?

-How do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

I have more related questions, but I'll save them. At any rate, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on these questions.

Erika, I am looking forward to answering these questions when I have the time -- perhaps after the weekend. Thanks for raising these challenging and intriguing questions.

 

[SweetErika]

Erika, I am looking forward to answering these questions when I have the time -- perhaps after the weekend. Thanks for raising these challenging and intriguing questions.

Wonderful! No hurry at all. I haven't taken the time before, but I wanted to say hello and that I've really enjoyed your thoughts on this topic especially. Lots and lots of brain food delivered so logically and eloquently; it's really helped me define my beliefs, and I can't wait to hear more!

 

[silverwhisper]

erika queried
what's the difference between loving and being in love? does sexual involvement mean you're in love? or, can you love someone and be sexual with them? how do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

for me, the difference b/n loving & being in love is the difference b/n the big things and the little things. by that, i mean: i love my wife. that means that her happiness is the most important thing to me, more than my own happiness, more than my own well-being. that's the big stuff. the little stuff, however, is when i go and buy her flowers or start giving her a backrub w/out being prompted, or when i tell her how beautiful she is.

to me, sexual involvement most certainly does not mean anything about love. it's about lust. that said, loving someone or being in love w/ someone can yield sex, but to me, that's a one-way street.

ed

 

[bobsgirl]

Wonderful! No hurry at all. I haven't taken the time before, but I wanted to say hello and that I've really enjoyed your thoughts on this topic especially. Lots and lots of brain food delivered so logically and eloquently; it's really helped me define my beliefs, and I can't wait to hear more!

Forgive me. If I don't say this, I'm going to explode. Yank's a sweetie--probably the most thoughtful and thought-provoking person I've met online. But the important question is...CAN HE JUGGLE?

He really is a good guy--whether he can keep his balls in the air or not.

 

[Cathleen]

Forgive me. If I don't say this, I'm going to explode. Yank's a sweetie--probably the most thoughtful and thought-provoking person I've met online. But the important question is...CAN HE JUGGLE?

He really is a good guy--whether he can keep his balls in the air or not.

Oh my!

 

[Cathleen]

I hope this isn't a repeat...I've read the thread multiple times, but don't recall. At 24, sometimes I think I'm already well on my way to senility.

I was talking with some friends the other night, and it became clear that we all had varying ideas of loving vs. being in love. Some of the questions posed were:

-What's the difference between loving and being in love?

-Does sexual involvement mean you're in love? Or, can you love someone and be sexual with them?

-How do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

I have more related questions, but I'll save them. At any rate, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on these questions.

Erika, can I have those other questions, please? These are too difficult.

In my mind there is a big difference between loving and being in love. I'm not sure it has much to do with my actions so much as it feels different. The internal energy is different, physiologically I react differently. The feeling of being 'in love' is sort of like a rocket blast - it throws everything into orbit inside. Every cell reacts and the world is beautiful and rosey. Loving is akin to 'throttle up'. It's cruising altitude in a way... the long haul.

The beginnings of a relationship are heady and giddy and all I want is more... it is centered on me, my feelings. The other person is the reason for that self-centeredness in me but it is still about me. Those feelings will burn out after a while, there's no way I could live that way long if I want to be productive and grounded. 'In love' is a few feet off the ground.

Loving is grounded, peaceful, and safe. The emotion and relationship can grow once that 'in love' part is done. Not that the relationship doesn't grow at the beginning but the energy changes and becomes more real - as if now back in the 'real world'.

The roots begin durning the 'in love' phase, and the blossom begins to develop and it might even burst a bit. The loving phase send those roots deeper and there will be far more blossoms.

I think.

 

[wicked woman]

Erika, can I have those other questions, please? These are too difficult.

In my mind there is a big difference between loving and being in love. I'm not sure it has much to do with my actions so much as it feels different. The internal energy is different, physiologically I react differently. The feeling of being 'in love' is sort of like a rocket blast - it throws everything into orbit inside. Every cell reacts and the world is beautiful and rosey. Loving is akin to 'throttle up'. It's cruising altitude in a way... the long haul.

The beginnings of a relationship are heady and giddy and all I want is more... it is centered on me, my feelings. The other person is the reason for that self-centeredness in me but it is still about me. Those feelings will burn out after a while, there's no way I could live that way long if I want to be productive and grounded. 'In love' is a few feet off the ground.

Loving is grounded, peaceful, and safe. The emotion and relationship can grow once that 'in love' part is done. Not that the relationship doesn't grow at the beginning but the energy changes and becomes more real - as if now back in the 'real world'.

The roots begin durning the 'in love' phase, and the blossom begins to develop and it might even burst a bit. The loving phase send those roots deeper and there will be far more blossoms.

I think.

oh Cate, I like that. *you done pondered good *

 

[Cathleen]

oh Cate, I like that. *you done pondered good *

It's all that practice.

 

[midwestyankee]

Wonderful! No hurry at all. I haven't taken the time before, but I wanted to say hello and that I've really enjoyed your thoughts on this topic especially. Lots and lots of brain food delivered so logically and eloquently; it's really helped me define my beliefs, and I can't wait to hear more!

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[midwestyankee]

Forgive me. If I don't say this, I'm going to explode. Yank's a sweetie--probably the most thoughtful and thought-provoking person I've met online. But the important question is...CAN HE JUGGLE?

He really is a good guy--whether he can keep his balls in the air or not.

Why would I want to keep them in the air? I can think of much better places.





Like in the middle of the fairway, dropping softly onto the green mere inches from the flagstick, rolling into the center of the cup...I'm sure you get the idea.

 

[midwestyankee]

Now, to SweetErika's questions:

-What's the difference between loving and being in love?

I agree fully with Cathleen on this one. Being in love is a self-focused state of being. It's all about what I feel because of her. It's a necessary prologue to being able to love, which can only happen when you open up your soul to your beloved. Such an act of opening up takes courage and involves considerable risk so we don't do it lightly. To love is to extend yourself sellflessly for the betterment of your beloved. It is an action, whereas being in love is a state of being.

-Does sexual involvement mean you're in love? Or, can you love someone and be sexual with them?

Absolutely not! Love heightens the pleasure of sex but by itself does not mean that you're in love. Being sexual with someone you love is an extraordinarily pleasurable thing. To be candid, this second question confuses me because it seems to imply that being sexual is only possible without love. Perhaps you could clarify this one for me.

-How do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

I'm not sure if I can point to any particular feeling that tells this difference. Instead, I think that I can remember noticing one day that I wanted nothing more than to be sure that she was happy and that my own happiness that day just didn't matter. Later I was able to see that that was the beginning of loving, because I'd moved past that state where I couldn't bear a day without feeling that she had made me the center of the universe.

 

[midwestyankee]

Answering Erika's questions led me to another train of thought that I would like to share with my fellow ponderers.

Making the transition from being in love to loving one's beloved is a challenge that causes stumbles in many relationships. I'm firmly in the camp of those who say that falling from being in love is one of the most common reasons for early divorce. It's so easy to believe that the feelings of being in love are essential elements of loving. And when they dissipate, as they always do, one begins to doubt if he is truly in love. I think that several factors are needed to successfully make this transition.

First, one must be aware of what is happening. You have to recognize that your emotional state is changing but that it is not a bad thing. That's the first trap: thinking that because your beloved no longer makes you feel like the center of the universe you must no longer love him.

Second, each partner must willingly choose to begin loving the other. This choice may not be made in a conscious mode but it must be made. At some point you will find yourself wanting your beloved to be happier than yourself and see that it is a good thing to want that for her. Even if her happiness comes at some sacrifice to yourself. And you will act on this desire day after day after day.

Third, you must give yourselves the opportunity to make the transition. You both must allow the other to grow into this new role. And you must help each other through it. It's a partnership, folks. Anything less is just organized and convenient lust. (sorry if I sound a bit cynical here; I've seen too many cases of lust that claims to be love)

Finally, you must be willing to risk losing your beloved in order to achieve union with her. You must open your soul to her with all its imperfections. You must show her the map of your life and the dreams in your heart. He must be able to feel the pain in your past and taste the sweetness of your hopes for the future.

You must be willing to let your beloved reach into your breast and hold out your heart over the fire. And when she cools it with a kiss and gives it back to you, transformed into her image, you will know the meaning of forever.

 

[Cathleen]

Answering Erika's questions led me to another train of thought that I would like to share with my fellow ponderers.

Making the transition from being in love to loving one's beloved is a challenge that causes stumbles in many relationships. I'm firmly in the camp of those who say that falling from being in love is one of the most common reasons for early divorce. It's so easy to believe that the feelings of being in love are essential elements of loving. And when they dissipate, as they always do, one begins to doubt if he is truly in love. I think that several factors are needed to successfully make this transition.

First, one must be aware of what is happening. You have to recognize that your emotional state is changing but that it is not a bad thing. That's the first trap: thinking that because your beloved no longer makes you feel like the center of the universe you must no longer love him.

Second, each partner must willingly choose to begin loving the other. This choice may not be made in a conscious mode but it must be made. At some point you will find yourself wanting your beloved to be happier than yourself and see that it is a good thing to want that for her. Even if her happiness comes at some sacrifice to yourself. And you will act on this desire day after day after day.

Third, you must give yourselves the opportunity to make the transition. You both must allow the other to grow into this new role. And you must help each other through it. It's a partnership, folks. Anything less is just organized and convenient lust. (sorry if I sound a bit cynical here; I've seen too many cases of lust that claims to be love)

Finally, you must be willing to risk losing your beloved in order to achieve union with her. You must open your soul to her with all its imperfections. You must show her the map of your life and the dreams in your heart. He must be able to feel the pain in your past and taste the sweetness of your hopes for the future.

You must be willing to let your beloved reach into your breast and hold out your heart over the fire. And when she cools it with a kiss and gives it back to you, transformed into her image, you will know the meaning of forever.

Yank, that is the most touching and beautiful group of words I have ever read. Thank you friend, for the effort and for the chance to dream.

 

[midwestyankee]

Yank, that is the most touching and beautiful group of words I have ever read. Thank you friend, for the effort and for the chance to dream.

Thank you, Cathleen. You're very kind.