Defining Love

[midwestyankee]

And she wonders why I love her so...

*hugs Damsel*

You have handed to me the most precious possesion a person has, your heart and soul. Swain and I cradle it together and will never let you be hurt again.

Love is about appreciating the person for what they are, what they can be, and what they will be. If you cannot appreciate all of this, you grow apart and the love dies, like a tree that has been attacked by insects. It may be fast, or it may take years, but the death is going to happen, nonetheless unless something drastic is done.

Once again, you have struck a resonant note. One of the truths of love as I know it is that love is not blind. Instead, through love we see our beloved clearly and accept her for who she is as well as for who she might become. It's when we idealize our beloved that we run the great risk of disappointment and disenchantment with reality. The appreciation you speak of is an essential part of the care and feeding of the beloved's soul.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
...snip...

If you can say to your beloved, I want to love you, then you have stripped your soul bare and risked it in the fire. When she cradles your soul above the flame and cools it with her kiss, you have stepped into eternity.

Yankee...once again I love your use of words...and of course the sentiment behind it as well.

 

[Shoshisexy]

Once again, you have struck a resonant note. One of the truths of love as I know it is that love is not blind. Instead, through love we see our beloved clearly and accept her for who she is as well as for who she might become. It's when we idealize our beloved that we run the great risk of disappointment and disenchantment with reality. The appreciation you speak of is an essential part of the care and feeding of the beloved's soul.

Well, MY, I have learned over the years that one only hurts one's self if (s)he doesn't except the people around them for who and what they are. Good, bad or indifferent, that acceptance is the first part of living with other humans. You don't have to like or get along with everyone, but if you try to idealize them....then you are just hurting yourself.

When it comes to love...it is ten times more important to see clearly and we are ever so much less likely to do so. Although Damsel is beautiful, and our Swain a strapping, handsome man, I don't think either one of them is perfect. They each have flaws and they each have strengths. The important part is that our strengths and weaknesses complement one another. When I am weak, I can lean on them and vice versa all the way around. If need be, I know I can be strong for both of them. Damsel will not believe this, but she also has the strength to hold both Swain and I if we needed her to. Swain is firmly of the belief that he has to be strong for his women, but he also talks to us and is willing to ask for help or take help, even when unasked for.

Swain, Damsel, and I are the greatest of friends. That comes before anything else. Without that friendship underlying the love, it would crumble like a wooden shack on a beach during hurricane season.

I am sure that many people here will think that I am idealizing the people in my life, but I know better and that is all that matters. That is another component of love we have not touched on. I care about what the people I love have to say to me and about me...but I know who is most important in my life and I know whose opinions are most important. If that person voicing an opinion is biased, a stranger, or unimportant in this context, then their opinion is of no consequence to me.

 

[midwestyankee]

Yankee...once again I love your use of words...and of course the sentiment behind it as well.

Thank you. Sometimes the words just seem to flow well, like fine chocolate on the way to becoming the perfect dessert.

Other times, well, that's what the edit button is all about, right?

 

[midwestyankee]

When it comes to love...it is ten times more important to see clearly and we are ever so much less likely to do so.

This is so true. As love descends on us we begin to think the universe revolves around our beloved. Yet, to love someone well means understanding them well enough to help them grow. And you cannot help someone grow if you don't have an accurate picture of where they are now and where they are headed.

 

[Swain]

Too True Midwest...... LOL...... And I believe the Little One does indeed have that in her mind and heart She knows more about either Damsel or I than anyone else

 

[midwestyankee]

Too True Midwest...... LOL...... And I believe the Little One does indeed have that in her mind and heart She knows more about either Damsel or I than anyone else

Even from the little I know, I can tell she's a special young woman. I wish you all well.

 

[Shoshisexy]

*BLUSHES*

Not like I am perfect here, either. I screw up, too. I am just smart enough to recognize the signs and beg for forgiveness.

Thank you, Swain.

Thank you as well, MY.

I have no idea where y'all get the idea that I am so special, but since this is a love thread, I shall let it stand. *shakes head*

 

[midwestyankee]

*BLUSHES*

Not like I am perfect here, either. I screw up, too. I am just smart enough to recognize the signs and beg for forgiveness.

Thank you, Swain.

Thank you as well, MY.

I have no idea where y'all get the idea that I am so special, but since this is a love thread, I shall let it stand. *shakes head*

Once again, Shoshana, you have given me food for thought.

I think it would be nearly impossible to love someone who was virtually perfect (not that such people exist). Even someone we thought was mostly perfect according to our own standards would be difficult to love. I think that admiration and awe might get in the way of truly knowing that person.

Right now one of the fundamental struggles for me is learning to discover someone well. I have an immense curiosity about all things, so when I encounter someone new and intriguing I want to know as much as I can about her. And when that person returns my interest, then the curiosity goes into overdrive.

But sometimes I wonder where the healthy balance point is between knowing and understanding. Because what really matters is understanding. If I understand my beloved, then some of the knowing I thought was important becomes less so.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[midwestyankee]

Here is another way of saying what I just tried to explain in my previous post.

I looked into a mirror and saw my beloved's memory. When I smiled, her lips parted to welcome me into her soul. Because I close my eyes when I kiss, I did not see all the memories in her store. I felt their presence but did not shrink from the kiss. When she said yes, please yes, I was once again at the mirror smiling.

 

[Shoshisexy]

*sniggles* MY, the first post made more sense to me.

I think you are right in that it would be impossible to love perfection. You could admire it...even grow very close to the person. You would soon grow to resent them, though as you would constantly be comparing yourself to him/her.

As for the knowing...I believe it is more important to know what is in a person's heart and soul than what is on their past. I know I have brought up my past here and have told all of you that Damsel and Swain have told me things about theirs. In our cases, the pasts formed the heart and soul we have today. As long as I know the important stuff...the details are unimportant. Just the love bonding us.

As for knowing -things-, well...I am very curious about certain things about my beloveds, but there are also things that I will just pick up by spending time with them. The time is more important than the knowledge.

 

[Swain]

*sniggles* MY, the first post made more sense to me.

I think you are right in that it would be impossible to love perfection. You could admire it...even grow very close to the person. You would soon grow to resent them, though as you would constantly be comparing yourself to him/her.

As for the knowing...I believe it is more important to know what is in a person's heart and soul than what is on their past. I know I have brought up my past here and have told all of you that Damsel and Swain have told me things about theirs. In our cases, the pasts formed the heart and soul we have today. As long as I know the important stuff...the details are unimportant. Just the love bonding us.

As for knowing -things-, well...I am very curious about certain things about my beloveds, but there are also things that I will just pick up by spending time with them. The time is more important than the knowledge.

Beloved Little one all you ever have to do is ask and you will get the information you would like to know LOL...... We love you and believe in nothing hidden

 

[Shoshisexy]

As I said...knowing comes with time. Swain eloquently pointed out that all I have to do is ask. And that is true.

When we speak, though, more is said than mere words. We learn each facial expression and body language that conveys pain within moments with a true beloved. Whether romantic or friendly love, I have always been able to read pain in another. Part of loving is knowing and fixing things when one has caused another pain.

We may not be able to take away the pain we have caused, but we can atone for it. I do it every day.

 

[Wyldfire]

LMAO. Swain an eloquent don't always match hon)

 

[midwestyankee]

Here is my next question for readers of this thread:.

How do you achieve a healthy balance between knowing and understanding your beloved?

By knowing I mean knowing his or her history, daily concerns and joys, spiritual beliefs, and other such things.

By understanding I mean such things as having a knowledge of what drives him or her and being able to project how your beloved will most likely respond to unknown future events.

This distinction may not be entirely clear, for which I apologize, but I do think there is an important distinction to be made along these lines that one ought to be able to navigate in order to best love someone.

 

[kayte]

Here is my next question for readers of this thread:.

How do you achieve a healthy balance between knowing and understanding your beloved?

By knowing I mean knowing his or her history, daily concerns and joys, spiritual beliefs, and other such things.

By understanding I mean such things as having a knowledge of what drives him or her and being able to project how your beloved will most likely respond to unknown future events.

This distinction may not be entirely clear, for which I apologize, but I do think there is an important distinction to be made along these lines that one ought to be able to navigate in order to best love someone.

Good question Yank.

I have no idea, and I think that may be a lot of what has caused me to be alone now....

Guess I just never learned how....

 

[MysteriousRomantic]

Here is my next question for readers of this thread:.

How do you achieve a healthy balance between knowing and understanding your beloved?

By knowing I mean knowing his or her history, daily concerns and joys, spiritual beliefs, and other such things.

By understanding I mean such things as having a knowledge of what drives him or her and being able to project how your beloved will most likely respond to unknown future events.

This distinction may not be entirely clear, for which I apologize, but I do think there is an important distinction to be made along these lines that one ought to be able to navigate in order to best love someone.

MWY Is there a possiblity of a long term relationship if there are major differences in the spiritual beliefs. Yes that can be a fairly stressful if this area is close to being the same. If you are in a relationship then you have to both be working for a common goal. And this addresses the daily concerns. I for one want to know my beloved history. Number one, because we are all creatures of what has happened to us in the past. If I do not know that , then how can I truly undserstand her.

Even you and I cannot tell how we ourselves will respond to future events in our lives. So in retrospect, how can we truly know how how our beloved will act in a certain situation. There has to be some sort of blind trust that the relationship is strong enough to hold together. Plus, if the relationship is built on trust and honesty,l then if something bothers them, they will be more likely to speak to you on those areas. This in turn will make the relationship grow in my opinion.

In a personal note. I want my beloved to know all of my history, past loves, past relationships ets. Then she can truly know what I want and need as well as giving me what makes me grow stronger in her.

 

[midwestyankee]

Good question Yank.

I have no idea, and I think that may be a lot of what has caused me to be alone now....

Guess I just never learned how....

I'm sure we all have to find out own way to discovery and understanding. Perhaps this is one of those things that we continue to improve as we grow.

 

[midwestyankee]

MWY Is there a possiblity of a long term relationship if there are major differences in the spiritual beliefs. Yes that can be a fairly stressful if this area is close to being the same. If you are in a relationship then you have to both be working for a common goal. And this addresses the daily concerns. I for one want to know my beloved history. Number one, because we are all creatures of what has happened to us in the past. If I do not know that , then how can I truly undserstand her.

I don't know if it's necessarily a problem if the two partners in a relationship have widely different spiritual beliefs. Certainly as long as there is mutual respect of each other's beliefs and an agreed-upon way of honoring different customs it seems to me a relaitonship could work with widely divergent spiritual beliefs.

I also don't know that I agree that you both have to be working for a common goal - if, by this, you mean that all goals should be held in common. However, I do think it's important for both partners to have certain goals in common. I think, for example, of financial goals or goals having to do with the home. Other than goals that clearly grow out of the partnership, each should be an individual with his or her own life goals.

Even you and I cannot tell how we ourselves will respond to future events in our lives. So in retrospect, how can we truly know how how our beloved will act in a certain situation. There has to be some sort of blind trust that the relationship is strong enough to hold together. Plus, if the relationship is built on trust and honesty,l then if something bothers them, they will be more likely to speak to you on those areas. This in turn will make the relationship grow in my opinion.

You may have spotted a weakness in the way I tried to define "understand" in the sense of understanding one's beloved.

In a personal note. I want my beloved to know all of my history, past loves, past relationships ets. Then she can truly know what I want and need as well as giving me what makes me grow stronger in her.

I don't know if it's possible or feasible to provide one's entire personal history. At the same time, I think that we should feel free to ask and expect answers to questions that we feel are vital to understanding our beloved.

 

[Shoshisexy]

WY, I do believe there is a difference in knowing and understanding your beloved. I also believe that MR is right in saying there must be some sort of trust, possibly blind, but I should hope not, in the relationship for it to continue.

As for knowing everything about my beloved's past...I need to know the important things, yes...but not every detail. To know every detail is only going to make me feel as though comparisons are inevitable. (Granted I feel this way anyway, but that is my past creeping up.)

I do agree that if I ask questions I should expect honest answers, though. Even if the answer is I cannot talk about it yet or right now...that is an honest answer.

Hopefully that made sense.

 

[midwestyankee]

WY, I do believe there is a difference in knowing and understanding your beloved. I also believe that MR is right in saying there must be some sort of trust, possibly blind, but I should hope not, in the relationship for it to continue.

As for knowing everything about my beloved's past...I need to know the important things, yes...but not every detail. To know every detail is only going to make me feel as though comparisons are inevitable. (Granted I feel this way anyway, but that is my past creeping up.)

I do agree that if I ask questions I should expect honest answers, though. Even if the answer is I cannot talk about it yet or right now...that is an honest answer.

Hopefully that made sense.

Of course it made sense.

Trust is a given, though I didn't mention it in my post raising this question. Perhaps what I mean by understanding is, in part, knowing with trust.

Thanks for your contribution, as always.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by freddyandeddy
Here's a wonderful passage I read in "The Couples Comfort Book," by Jennifer Louden:

Nurturing a relationship is an act as familiar as kissing hello, as flamboyant as a surprise birthday party, as unique to your relationship as a love note written with your pet names, or as universal as regularly voiicing your appreciation for your partner. Nurturing your relationship means keeping it current, warm, juicy, sparkling with gratitude, burnished with respect. Nurturing your love means you give it the same attention you do your career, your children, or your commitment to your community. It is the act of creating an environment in which the relationship, and each person, can flourish.

To nurture another human being is to accept that person for who he or she is. To nurture is to honor your lover as the magnificent human being she or he is inside. It is to support your partner's growth toward wholeness. It means you honestly care about your partner's thoughts, feelings, wants, and especially needs. It is ALWAYS a reciprical process. One partner does not do all the nurturing: that is excessive caretaking, and that eventurally leads to resentment, burnout, and finally bitterness and alienation.

Borrowed from freddy and another thread.

 

[midwestyankee]

Borrowed from freddy and another thread.

I've read freddy's thread, How to keep things passionate in the How To forum. Many people have contributed some great ideas for nurturing the passionate side of a relationship.

 

[MysteriousRomantic]

Borrowed from freddy and another thread.

WOW WW. and that is so true. If only one person works at the relationship in all aspects then there is lots of bitterness that happens. I for one can relate as I was the giver in the relationship while my now ex wife was the taker. The person I am involved with now is so different. She is a giver also. Funny how when two givers get together after being with takers our whole lives, it reaLLY TAKES A LOT OF GETTING USED TO. Neither of us are used to being on the receiving side. But slowly we both are getting used to it is a way. It is actually fun giving when you can tell the other person truly doies appreciate it. And after never being on that side it is truly enjoyable

 

[dervish469]

foundations of love

I posted this on another thread, but I think it applies more here than there *S* -

It took me 40 years and many, many failures, but I have found true love. I love all the flowery, poetic things that everyone writes, I really do. But there are three simple, non-poetic things that I feel are integral to true love. They are A). unconditional acceptance of the other person - never wanting to change them. You just have to have that feeling about them. B). a passionate desire to be close to them. This has nothing to do with sex, it has everything to do with "her/him" - it is undefinable, untrainable, uncoachabe ... it just is. C). total respect for who he/she is and what they feel. You don't have to agree and you don't have to like what they feel, but you have to respect it.

I don't mean to reduce this wonderful thread to an intellectual discussion, but I have found something very, very rare and awesome and I think sharing what the foundation of that is has value.

Now --- back to the poetry of love! *S*