Burn the bitch stories

[FeralSmile]

Something I just posted in another thread made me think to mention it here. Part of the issue with the growing negative factions of LW is the nature of this site. Its free, and it allows people to not even have to create a user name to comment as anon.

In the pay market the hotwife/cuck stories sell very well, and all versions from stag/vixen to total cuck humiliation and even the reviews are generally good. So the difference is "clientele' so to speak. People who will pay for a story are doing so because they like the kink, but because its free here the type who hates everything can just come here and blast and froth away. so this is a lit problem moreso than an over all story/kink problem.

Few years back I'd say nothing you can do, but now that they screen comments? They can control this, some of these things should not be getting through and I wonder how many comments made by the worst of the worst not getting through would turn them from the site? Probably not many, this isn't a lot with much backbone or conviction

Honestly I wonder if it wouldn't have been better, back when, to split LW into two categories. One could be about Loving Wives as per the description, and one could be about jealousy and possessiveness. That seems to be what a lot of LW readers really want, as I've only recently learned; some stories with little to no erotic scenes at all (but plenty of rage and/or control and/or humiliation) get high ratings.

Clearly it's too late for this kind of thing, as they've settled in and would insist LW remain as they wish it. But I do wonder.

 

[Constories]

Honestly I wonder if it wouldn't have been better, back when, to split LW into two categories. One could be about Loving Wives as per the description, and one could be about jealousy and possessiveness. That seems to be what a lot of LW readers really want, as I've only recently learned; some stories with little to no erotic scenes at all (but plenty of rage and/or control and/or humiliation) get high ratings.

Clearly it's too late for this kind of thing, as they've settled in and would insist LW remain as they wish it. But I do wonder.

That is an idea that numerous people have suggested in the past. While it's a logical idea, there's a solid reason why it (probably) wouldn't work.

Look at the Tagline for the Loving Wives category:

Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more

Does any part of that description even hint at BTB, RAAC, or even (depending on your definition) cheating at all? Not really, unless you think that the word "more" is doing some very heavy lifting.

No, if I understand correctly, LW was originally created as a place for willing cuckold/swinger stories, and perhaps stories for people who find the idea of cheating thrilling. BTB and even RAAC rose up as a counterculture to that.

It grew up naturally due to the presence of readers who believe in the sanctity of marriage or were cheated on. Those people hate the idea of cheating and infidelity to varying degrees, and some of them started writing in that genre because of that distain. Some of those readers will intentionally seek out willing cuckold and pro-cheating stories, and they will down vote them and hate on them in the comments.

I don't approve of cheating, but I don't seek out any stories which I don't think I would enjoy. There are tons of stories on this site which I find distasteful or even gross, but as long as they are tagged properly and I don't feel tricked into reading them, you'll never hear a peep out of me. People are gonna write what they want. Why would I care?

I only decided to put my Burn the Bastard story, Range Cold in LW because I knew that it would get seen by the most people there. If Laurel split the category into "Wounded Spouses" and "Willing Spouses" for instance, my story would have only seen half the audience.

So personally, I prefer it as it is. I tagged my story properly, wrote a tale I'm proud of, and got a 4.51 (at the moment).

 

[SimonDoom]

Most LW readers are seeking justice and restoring order. To achieve this, they promote a one-dimensional and shallow narrative, which I strongly disagree with. However, there is a vast difference between their stance and the other nonsensical comments frequently expressed here.

I basically agree with this. I see the BTB stories as similar to Dirty Harry or Charles Bronson "Death Wish" movies. They take place in a universe where the moral compass is believed to have been thrown off (in BTB stories, by cheating women and the society that rewards them for cheating and screws over the man). The male hero is usually lone wolf who stands against the morally compromised world with its wits and his steadfast moral code. He restores order by getting vengeance against the wife, her lover, and the system (often represented by the lawyer).

Like the Dirty Harry universe, it's a bit nutty. It's almost always a caricature of reality. But the stories of this type that I've read (and I've read quite a few) almost always seem to have this quality. They're set in a world gone wrong.

I think one could with some justice that underlying this bizarre fantasy world are elements of misogyny and an exaggerated sense of grievance against women and the system.

I only decided to put my Burn the Bastard story, Range Cold in LW because I knew that it would get seen by the most people there. If Laurel split the category into "Wounded Spouses" and "Willing Spouses" for instance, my story would have only seen half the audience.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. The site isn't going to do anything that inconveniences readers and lowers numbers. I suspect as well that there are some, perhaps many, readers who actually DO like all of the different types of Loving Wives stories (we just don't hear about them because they're tolerant), and they would be inconvenienced by breaking up the category.

 

[Tomh1966]

Depends how much burn there is. Some just endings reek of evil. Prison for life. Disfigurement. Death. shudder.

I've always liked BTB lite tho.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Honestly I wonder if it wouldn't have been better, back when, to split LW into two categories. One could be about Loving Wives as per the description, and one could be about jealousy and possessiveness. That seems to be what a lot of LW readers really want, as I've only recently learned; some stories with little to no erotic scenes at all (but plenty of rage and/or control and/or humiliation) get high ratings.

Clearly it's too late for this kind of thing, as they've settled in and would insist LW remain as they wish it. But I do wonder.

Wouldn't have worked.

Out of curiosity, I did an "a OR the" search in LW. A proto-BTB story (fiancee cheats with best friend, man finds comfort int eh arms of another) shows up on the first page. A hard cuckolding ("you're going to watch this and hate it and be turned on at the same time" type) story is there, too, as are reconciliation, swinging, sharing, and swapping stories. Also, at least one monogamous couple doing monogamous couple things.

Searching for "revenge" shows multiple BTB stories by 2002. "BTB" in the tags shows up first in 2007, although only once. Starting in 2013, it begins showing up in force. "Reconciliation" in the tag search shows up in 2005, "raac" in 2016. The divide has been here for as long as the site has. It's just that it's become a lot harder for the non-drama stories to get high ratings.

I've said before that the BTB (and even reconciliation) stories are just a different kind of fantasy. They're not a sexual one; instead, they're the fantasy that the male character goes through a horrible time in their life and comes out much better than could be expected and/or that the wife and her affair partner come out much worse. They're a fantasy for men whose lives got blown up by something they didn't see coming (or maybe did, but didn't do enough to stop it and/or couldn't stop it), one where their life turned out better than their reality.

I think there's another thing in play, though. The LW commenters, at least, seem a lot more literal-minded. That is, they don't just run with the "it's a fantasy" stuff. That's true pretty much across the board; I got a lot of hate for the murder in my noir story for Hammered, but even more for the "fact" that there was no way the protagonist would get away with it. Which, in the real world, of course he wouldn't, but this was a noir story. But I've also gotten hate for reconciliations on "realistic" grounds.

The commenters that follow me from LW to other categories seem to be the only ones that say "this isn't realistic" or judge based on real-world morality; being told a May/December romance in Mature felt creepy sure was odd, as were complaints about a fetish in Fetish, and a CNC story in NC/R. Each with "this doesn't seem healthy!" Which... they're fantasies. There's a general unwillingness to give even the slightest nod towards suspension of disbelief if it doesn't align with their values (and this is true on both sides of the BTB/reconciliation coin). Verisimilitude isn't enough; "this has to pass all the real world tests" is.

On top of that, the hardcore LW folks have gotten spoiled with some really great writing, but also some which holds the reader's hand. They haaaaate things without spelled-out endings. As an example (in addition to Trish), look at The Favor, a great sharing story with somewhat realistic outcomes. That's gotten dinged because the ending leaves ambiguity. They want to know what happens to the nth degree.

So, combine it all together, and you have a vocal, opinionated audience that demands reality (in some ways, as it suits them) in a site dedicated to fantasy, on top of the inherent split in the category that was there since the beginning, and you've got a powderkeg.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes and no. While misogyny exists, there is also misandry, particularly among female writers. Both misogyny and misandry are branches of misanthropy. In these stories, there is a common pattern where the main character is portrayed as overly and unreliably positive, while everyone around them is depicted as antagonistic without apparent reason. The older brother, the best friend, the boss, all seem to represent some dark force, while the hero embodies the good and righteous.

I find the oversimplification, victimization, and narcissistic self-righteousness underlying these stories to be extremely ridiculous, but who are we to judge? It's a sex site, after all. Everyone should focus on their literary and sexual preferences and avoid self-righteous condescension towards others, especially when the audience they are trying to mock doesn't give a damn about them or anything else.

I don't judge people for the stories they read and write. I get miffed at the BTB comment trolls who spoil everybody else's fun.

More than some, I take it as a given that erotic fantasy is tied in with many deep, and sometimes dark feelings that we are uncomfortable with. My reaction to that is that it's very interesting, but I'm not outraged and appalled by it as some people are. It doesn't bother me that people like bondage stories, or interracial stories, or incest stories, or nonconsent stories. Fantasy is fantasy, and it's often weird. Better that we let people vent and express and indulge their fantasies in a forum like this than that we keep it all bottled up with "rules" and shame.

 

[FeralSmile]

That is an idea that numerous people have suggested in the past. While it's a logical idea, there's a solid reason why it (probably) wouldn't work.

Look at the Tagline for the Loving Wives category:


Does any part of that description even hint at BTB, RAAC, or even (depending on your definition) cheating at all? Not really, unless you think that the word "more" is doing some very heavy lifting.

No, if I understand correctly, LW was originally created as a place for willing cuckold/swinger stories, and perhaps stories for people who find the idea of cheating thrilling. BTB and even RAAC rose up as a counterculture to that.

That's fair. I think though that a lot of people, myself included, saw the category as one intended for stories about extramarital sex involving one or more married people, and while it can include cuckoldry, that's just one of many types of extramarital sexual relationships and events. "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more" should arguably include all kinds of married extramarital fun, no?

To be clear though, I had mostly read stories there through tags and didn't understand the voting habits and expectations of readers there. I'm certainly not an expert on how that category is perceived or its history here; others in this thread doubtless have more experience.

The fact that it's called "Loving Wives" and not "Loving Spouses" argues against both of our interpretations, incidentally, but I digress.

More generally though, if one writes or wishes to read a story about marital infidelity that doesn't involve cuckoldry, or pain, or humiliation, going strictly by category descriptions, doesn't LW seem the most appropriate place? Clearly for a lot of people the answer is a resounding no, but it's equally clear that many (e.g. myself, when I first approached writing here) would answer yes. That's what I was trying to get at in my earlier post.

It grew up naturally due to the presence of readers who believe in the sanctity of marriage or were cheated on. Those people hate the idea of cheating and infidelity to varying degrees, and some of them started writing in that genre because of that distain. Some of those readers will intentionally seek out willing cuckold and pro-cheating stories, and they will down vote them and hate on them in the comments.

I don't approve of cheating, but I don't seek out any stories which I don't think I would enjoy. There are tons of stories on this site which I find distasteful or even gross, but as long as they are tagged properly and I don't feel tricked into reading them, you'll never hear a peep out of me. People are gonna write what they want. Why would I care?

I think a lot of people have strong opinions about most everything. Most of those opinions, for better or worse, are cultural, arising from the society or religion one lives with. That's another way of saying most people don't really think through their beliefs but accept what everyone around them thinks; that's why most people share their parents' religion and politics. And there are differences in how each culture approaches these topics: most Americans aren't historically much like most Europeans, for example, in how they generally view infidelity. That's not an argument that one is better than the other, just a recognition that there isn't one right view here.

When I wrote "Trish" I wasn't trying to convince people to go out and seduce their coworker's wives, nor was I arguing that cheating was generally good or should happen or should have no consequences. I was instead exploring themes of temptation and what people want out of relationships. Clearly many readers wanted something different, and some were genuinely angry that my story didn't punish the cheaters or make a strong moral argument against what they were doing. For the purposes of that story, none of that was interesting or important to me.

I only decided to put my Burn the Bastard story, Range Cold in LW because I knew that it would get seen by the most people there. If Laurel split the category into "Wounded Spouses" and "Willing Spouses" for instance, my story would have only seen half the audience.

So personally, I prefer it as it is. I tagged my story properly, wrote a tale I'm proud of, and got a 4.51 (at the moment).

It's a good story, and I think it deserves a high rating. You should be proud of it! I liked the suspense, and you had several little flourishes I quite enjoyed (e.g. the irony of Faye needing to borrow the MC's rifle, the deception with the blank). And clearly the readers enjoyed it and rewarded it. That, in itself, is the best and most compelling argument that it's in the right place; everything else is purely theoretical.

But there's nothing erotic about it, is there? It's a category for erotic stories, on a site for erotic stories, yet the readers very obviously want non-erotic stories there as well, and not just in the Non-Erotic category. And what's more, they (or many of them anyhow) want specific kinds of non-erotic stories in the LW category, dealing with jealousy and anguish and punishment. That's the heart of the conundrum, and it speaks to the divide in expectations I was trying to get at earlier.

You don't like cheating, which is more than fair. In real life I don't either, nor do I like incest, and here I've written (and will continue to write) stories about both things, because I do like exploring temptation and the thrill of the forbidden. I also don't like jealousy and rage and vengeance, but a lot of great stories (arguably many of the very best, and certainly some of my favorites) have used those themes effectively, and I can put aside my preferences for the things I want in my life so I can enjoy stories about other people's lives, reflecting parts of the world I don't inhabit or wish to inhabit. I'm in no sense trying to argue that such stories shouldn't exist! I was merely questioning why Literotica has developed in such a way that the Loving Wives category is so divergent in what people want and expect from it.

 

[lovecraft68]

That's fair. I think though that a lot of people, myself included, saw the category as one intended for stories about extramarital sex involving one or more married people, and while it can include cuckoldry, that's just one of many types of extramarital sexual relationships and events. "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more" should arguably include all kinds of married extramarital fun, no?

To be clear though, I had mostly read stories there through tags and didn't understand the voting habits and expectations of readers there. I'm certainly not an expert on how that category is perceived or its history here; others in this thread doubtless have more experience.

The fact that it's called "Loving Wives" and not "Loving Spouses" argues against both of our interpretations, incidentally, but I digress.

More generally though, if one writes or wishes to read a story about marital infidelity that doesn't involve cuckoldry, or pain, or humiliation, going strictly by category descriptions, doesn't LW seem the most appropriate place? Clearly for a lot of people the answer is a resounding no, but it's equally clear that many (e.g. myself, when I first approached writing here) would answer yes. That's what I was trying to get at in my earlier post.



I think a lot of people have strong opinions about most everything. Most of those opinions, for better or worse, are cultural, arising from the society or religion one lives with. That's another way of saying most people don't really think through their beliefs but accept what everyone around them thinks; that's why most people share their parents' religion and politics. And there are differences in how each culture approaches these topics: most Americans aren't historically much like most Europeans, for example, in how they generally view infidelity. That's not an argument that one is better than the other, just a recognition that there isn't one right view here.

When I wrote "Trish" I wasn't trying to convince people to go out and seduce their coworker's wives, nor was I arguing that cheating was generally good or should happen or should have no consequences. I was instead exploring themes of temptation and what people want out of relationships. Clearly many readers wanted something different, and some were genuinely angry that my story didn't punish the cheaters or make a strong moral argument against what they were doing. For the purposes of that story, none of that was interesting or important to me.



It's a good story, and I think it deserves a high rating. You should be proud of it! I liked the suspense, and you had several little flourishes I quite enjoyed (e.g. the irony of Faye needing to borrow the MC's rifle, the deception with the blank). And clearly the readers enjoyed it and rewarded it. That, in itself, is the best and most compelling argument that it's in the right place; everything else is purely theoretical.

But there's nothing erotic about it, is there? It's a category for erotic stories, on a site for erotic stories, yet the readers very obviously want non-erotic stories there as well, and not just in the Non-Erotic category. And what's more, they (or many of them anyhow) want specific kinds of non-erotic stories in the LW category, dealing with jealousy and anguish and punishment. That's the heart of the conundrum, and it speaks to the divide in expectations I was trying to get at earlier.

You don't like cheating, which is more than fair. In real life I don't either, nor do I like incest, and here I've written (and will continue to write) stories about both things, because I do like exploring temptation and the thrill of the forbidden. I also don't like jealousy and rage and vengeance, but a lot of great stories (arguably many of the very best, and certainly some of my favorites) have used those themes effectively, and I can put aside my preferences for the things I want in my life so I can enjoy stories about other people's lives, reflecting parts of the world I don't inhabit or wish to inhabit. I'm in no sense trying to argue that such stories shouldn't exist! I was merely questioning why Literotica has developed in such a way that the Loving Wives category is so divergent in what people want and expect from it.

End of the day, erotic categories here represent specific kinks, Incest, NC, Group, Interracial etc... For stories that don't fit exactly into those there's Erotic couplings, but point is they all represent a variety of erotic fantasies

Hate is not a kink, and violence for titillation is not a kink, and that's those stories represent. Its what the authors push and their hyena readership howls over. Then they cry and moan when someone calls it for what it is, and the waffling "I can't have an opinion on anything because I might get a one bomb" crew here defends them.

I'll never say something can't or shouldn't be written as I'm anti censorship, but these don't belong in an erotic category, and that's the simple point here.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yes and no. While misogyny exists, there is also misandry, particularly among female writers. Both misogyny and misandry are branches of misanthropy. In these stories, there is a common pattern where the main character is portrayed as overly and unreliably positive, while everyone around them is depicted as antagonistic without apparent reason. The older brother, the best friend, the boss, all seem to represent some dark force, while our hero embodies the good and righteous.

I find the oversimplification, victimization, and narcissistic self-righteousness underlying these stories to be extremely ridiculous, but who are we to judge? It's a sex site, after all. Everyone should focus on their literary and sexual preferences and avoid self-righteous condescension towards others, especially when the audience they are trying to mock doesn't give a damn about them or anything else.

If there's anything here no one gives a damn about its your sanctimonious posts and inflated opinion of yourself.

 

[FeralSmile]

End of the day, erotic categories here represent specific kinks, Incest, NC, Group, Interracial etc... For stories that don't fit exactly into those there's Erotic couplings, but point is they all represent a variety of erotic fantasies

Hate is not a kink, and violence for titillation is not a kink, and that's those stories represent. Its what the authors push and their hyena readership howls over. Then they cry and moan when someone calls it for what it is, and the waffling "I can't have an opinion on anything because I might get a one bomb" crew here defends them.

I'll never say something can't or shouldn't be written as I'm anti censorship, but these don't belong in an erotic category, and that's the simple point here.

That's largely where I'm coming from, as well.

I read a lot of stories here, and I'm here for the erotica, for the smut, for the kink. I'm here for things that turn me on. And there's a lot of great stuff here (yours not least!) that turns me on. Yes, I want it to be well written, of course, but I'm not visiting to read well-written non-erotica (even stuff I find enjoyment in, like the above-referenced). That's not what this site is for, to me. For that stuff, I look elsewhere.

If people want to read non-erotica here, that's of course ok. They don't need to share my preferences or views of the site's purpose (and NAME) of course. I do wonder though to what level they're conflating sexuality and religious moralism. Not to put too fine a point on it, I think there's a strong Christian influence in the desire to see cheaters punished, to experience the violation of vows and enjoy it not for the sex or the thrill but for the pain and suffering that follows. I don't think much of it is healthy on a site like this, even though in real life I'm sympathetic to the pain suffered by those who have been cheated on.

But, at the end of the day, it's not my site, and if a large enough group of people disagree with my preferences, then things are as they should be.

 

[FeralSmile]

You don't like cheating, which is more than fair. In real life I don't either, nor do I like incest, and here I've written (and will continue to write) stories about both things, because I do like exploring temptation and the thrill of the forbidden.

In retrospect I feel I ought to have expanded a bit on this when I first wrote it, but editing this much later would be rude.

Most of the stories I most enjoy here involve incest. I love incest stories! Just as I love exhibitionism and voyeurism stories, and stories about people cheating, and BDSM stories, and a lot of other stuff.

Ultimately it's about finding something that scratches our itches. For me, that's explorations of relationships on the cusp of new intimacy; I like that moment where things tip from one side to the other.

Most people have different approaches than mine, and those are all valid.

Since I was young I've been a fan of Shakespeare's tragedies, and Othello is among my favorites. Top 5 anyhow, depending on the day. It's all about jealousy and deceit and rage and vengeance, about punishing betrayal (while being betrayed and manipulated into that punishment) and it's masterful. But it's also not remotely sexually exciting to me, and I don't want to read it here (because I come here, as a reader, for sexual excitement). I can't help but look askance at those who think it belongs among erotic stories. If they're turned on by Othello, that's unhealthy and disturbing. If they don't want to be turned on, or don't want to admit they are, and they want to read Othello because it deals with issues adjacent to sexuality, I'm surely not enjoying it in the same way they are, and I still suspect their approach is unhealthy and the content would be better placed elsewhere.

All that said though, people are different. I don't know what's in their hearts, and don't need to know. I can disagree with their approaches and question the efficacy of said approaches, while still respecting their rights to choose for themselves how they approach sex. If someone enjoys reading Othello and thinks of it as a Loving Wives story, then it is, for them, even if for me stories about the green-eyed monster belong elsewhere.

 

[Constories]

Here's the reason why I think that BTB story (as well as literally any other story type that the majority is willing to accept) should be allowed in LW.

We must live and operate within the world we live, not the world we wish we lived in.

If I knew that Range Cold (as it exists right now) would be inexplicably successful in literally any other category rather than LW, I'd be just as happy to put it there instead. My story is not a hateful one, and yet it belongs in LW no more or less than any of the hateful, violent stories that also nearly inexplicably find themselves in the LW category.

You may ask, "Why write a non-erotic tale on Lit at all?" Well because this is where I am already. I like it here for it's relative lack of rules and the knowledge that if I wanted, all characters could break down into a XXX fuck session, and it'd be allowed. I like the freedom. I can write everything I would ever conceivably want to write. I'm sure there's tons of other sites, but this is where I am, and I don't wanna leave.

"Why not post in non-erotic?" Because fewer people would see/read it. Simple as.

I got something like 2 comments referencing the fact that the story was not erotic, but I think the non-erotic tag should suffice. A few people made the joke "She wasn't a very loving wife", but honestly, I disagree entirely. It was originally her love which made her so passionate and unwilling to share her husband.

Also, I would argue that there is ostensibly no possible way to prevent BTB stories from cropping up in the LW category.

If there was a rule like: "The story has to be erotic." Then you'd get a lot of BTB stories with a 300 word detailed snogging scene followed by a traditional violent BTB narrative. "You can't have violence in erotic categories." That'd be a garbage rule, and would prevent a ton of good stories which have lots of sex and action/violence... Spy thrillers, for example. I feel like "no snuff stories" is an acceptably fair rule regardless of genre.

At the end of the day, (presumably) very few people are getting erotic pleasure from BTB stories, (I'm sure those psychos exist, but if BTB stories were banned from LW, they could always search for BTB, find it in Non-erotic, And still jerk off to them there).

---

Please accept this humble analogy:

At the metaphorical porn store, someone set up a booth selling violent, exploitive horror flicks, like "Night of the Sorority Sisters Slasher 7". [I made that title up, but I imagine it's probably real, somewhere]

These films started selling like hot cakes, and now there are almost as many horror films available for sale as there are pornos.

Is a porn store a good place to sell horror films? Not ordinary, I'd say. Should we ban them? Well considering the fact that it'd be incredibly difficult, and considering the idea that "Night of the Sorority Sisters Slasher 15" could feature a 30 second fuck scene before the film proper begins, makes it seem pointless and silly to do so, imho.

 

[FeralSmile]

We must live and operate within the world we live, not the world we wish we lived in.

I wholly agree.

If I knew that Range Cold (as it exists right now) would be inexplicably successful in literally any other category rather than LW, I'd be just as happy to put it there instead. My story is not a hateful one, and yet it belongs in LW no more or less than any of the hateful, violent stories that also nearly inexplicably find themselves in the LW category.

Your (enjoyable and well-written) story features an attempted murder by one character and another character ready to attempt multiple murders. Respectfully, arguing that it's not hateful or violent is unpersuasive. It's ok to have stories that are hateful and violent! The rage and the violent urges you wrote about come from a place of love, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed the story as much as I did. This wasn't, I dunno, about an apathetic contract killer or deranged serial killer or something; it was about a woman who was doubly betrayed and the anguish she felt, and the steps she was willing to take as a result. That's good stuff.

Also, I don't think its success is inexplicable, but more on that below.

You may ask, "Why write a non-erotic tale on Lit at all?" Well because this is where I am already. I like it here for it's relative lack of rules and the knowledge that if I wanted, all characters could break down into a XXX fuck session, and it'd be allowed. I like the freedom. I can write everything I would ever conceivably want to write. I'm sure there's tons of other sites, but this is where I am, and I don't wanna leave.

"Why not post in non-erotic?" Because fewer people would see/read it. Simple as.

You're right, and I'm glad you're here.

I'd prefer if Literotica had more readership in the Non-Erotic category so your story could find the success it deserves there, but it doesn't. I don't fault you at all for posting it where you did. You're literally giving the audience what it wants.

I do fault the audience, but not for enjoying the story; I fault them for WANTING stories like that in an erotic category.

It's a good story. I've thought of it a few times since reading it, which says a lot. I'm genuinely happy people are reading and enjoying it, for all my ruminations about erotica and non-erotica and what's healthy and all that. Also, I should note that the feelings expressed by the MC and implied by her husband and his lover are all realistic and plausible, and nothing about the story makes me think you're a bad person or have a sick and twisted view of people. There are other stories there and other authors of which I can't say the same. My concerns are with the categorization system and the way art is viewed, not with you as an artist or your work.

This is the world we live in, not the world I'd design if I somehow could. So by all means carry on.

And keep writing, and keep submitting those stories here, please. I'll read and enjoy them, even if I do sometimes complain about the categories people want to read them in.

 

[Constories]

Your (enjoyable and well-written) story features an attempted murder by one character and another character ready to attempt multiple murders. Respectfully, arguing that it's not hateful or violent is unpersuasive. It's ok to have stories that are hateful and violent!

Allow me to clarify! I didn't mean that Elizabeth was devoid of hated or malice! Far from it.

When I said "My story is not a hateful one" I didn't mean that the characters didn't experience hate/anger. I meant it wasn't written from a place of anger or malice.

From my understanding, many BRB stories read like bad self inserts, and you can tell that the authors are venting frustration on the page that perhaps they'd like to vent irl, but can't.

Range Cold was NOT written like that. Thank God, I've never been cheated on, and I've certainly never cheated myself, so I was not writing from a place of anger or hate. It is not a hateful story, although it contains hateful characters.

Ironically, a cried while writing a particular scene... Tears of empathy. Not anger

Scar = hateful.
The Lion King ≠ hateful.

 

[FeralSmile]

Allow me to clarify! I didn't mean that Elizabeth was devoid of hated or malice! Far from it.

When I said "My story is not a hateful one" I didn't mean that the characters didn't experience hate/anger. I meant it wasn't written from a place of anger or malice.

Fair point. I didn't think you were writing about how much YOU wanted to see people die in pain, but rather about how your characters did. And it's a meaningful distinction; one which this audience seems not to always make.

 

[NoTalentHack]

In retrospect I feel I ought to have expanded a bit on this when I first wrote it, but editing this much later would be rude.

Most of the stories I most enjoy here involve incest. I love incest stories! Just as I love exhibitionism and voyeurism stories, and stories about people cheating, and BDSM stories, and a lot of other stuff.

Ultimately it's about finding something that scratches our itches. For me, that's explorations of relationships on the cusp of new intimacy; I like that moment where things tip from one side to the other.

Most people have different approaches than mine, and those are all valid.

Since I was young I've been a fan of Shakespeare's tragedies, and Othello is among my favorites. Top 5 anyhow, depending on the day. It's all about jealousy and deceit and rage and vengeance, about punishing betrayal (while being betrayed and manipulated into that punishment) and it's masterful. But it's also not remotely sexually exciting to me, and I don't want to read it here (because I come here, as a reader, for sexual excitement). I can't help but look askance at those who think it belongs among erotic stories. If they're turned on by Othello, that's unhealthy and disturbing. If they don't want to be turned on, or don't want to admit they are, and they want to read Othello because it deals with issues adjacent to sexuality, I'm surely not enjoying it in the same way they are, and I still suspect their approach is unhealthy and the content would be better placed elsewhere.

All that said though, people are different. I don't know what's in their hearts, and don't need to know. I can disagree with their approaches and question the efficacy of said approaches, while still respecting their rights to choose for themselves how they approach sex. If someone enjoys reading Othello and thinks of it as a Loving Wives story, then it is, for them, even if for me stories about the green-eyed monster belong elsewhere.

I was going back through this thread as I did my research for my Literotica 25 essay on LW, and I totally want to see if I can get away with writing a modern interpretation of Othello and passing it off in LW now.

No, NTH. Focus.

But…

 

[Comshaw]

That's what SHE asked, mouth agape, eyes filled with lust, and hand reaching for the nearest yardstick.

Comshaw

 

[madelinemasoch]

I was going back through this thread as I did my research for my Literotica 25 essay on LW, and I totally want to see if I can get away with writing a modern interpretation of Othello and passing it off in LW now.

No, NTH. Focus.

But…

Despite our differences, please write that.

 

[MillieDynamite]

So, I just found this thread.

She's too late for the party, boys. All the men say

Yeah, I know, but I hate, burn the bitch stories.

Don't care, just keep your pretty mouth shut. All the men say.

Humph.

 

[EmilyMiller]

My hubby and I have been reading plenty of burn the bitch stories, but I have noticed that there are very few cheating husband stories. Not even sure if there is a name for those.

I write a burn the bitch story where it was a lesbian marriage and one wife cheated with another woman.

It’s my only story rated lower than four.

Does that help?

Em

 

[Constories]

I write a burn the bitch story where it was a lesbian marriage and one wife cheated with another woman.

It’s my only story rated lower than four.

Does that help?

Em

To be fair, it was a surprise twist that the couple were lesbians. That must skew the data at least a little, imo.

 

[PandemicReader8]

In the state in which I live, this would be legally impossible.

This is the heart of it.

The law varies State to State. The application of the law varies - within fudgeable boundaries - jurisdiction to jurisdiction and sometimes court room to court room.

The existence of the Appeals Process is your source supporting why this is true.

Judges and magistrates have latitude and discretion and they use them as they see fit. Add to this variations in the quality of legal representation and you get a mix in which there is no norm. Everything is situational.

 

[NoTalentHack]

This is the heart of it.

The law varies State to State. The application of the law varies - within fudgeable boundaries - jurisdiction to jurisdiction and sometimes court room to court room.

The existence of the Appeals Process is your source supporting why this is true.

Judges and magistrates have latitude and discretion and they use them as they see fit. Add to this variations in the quality of legal representation and you get a mix in which there is no norm. Everything is situational.

To jump in on this, much like custody varying widely from state to state, spousal support can, too. Georgia, for example, includes a provision for “capacity to earn,” which is ultimately a number the judge pulls out of their ass based on each partner’s employment history, education, etc. In addition, losing your job doesn’t automatically get your spousal support reduced; that can happen only if you are A) involuntarily unemployed (specifically to avoid guys quitting their jobs or getting paid under the table to avoid alimony) and B) can afford to go back in front of the court to successfully argue for lowering of support. Child support in those jurisdictions usually work similarly.

The case that Simon wanted proof on most likely was a result of something like this: both spouses worked, they got divorced, husband quit his job for some reason, then found that in his state, voluntary job loss didn’t count towards getting out of his court-mandated financial responsibilities.

Someone (I think our dear, sadly not entirely departed Tilan) pointed out how many LW writers, and especially BTB LW writers, are from the South. And part of that is probably due to the “culture of honor” problem, but some of it is also due to the fact that the divorce and custody laws in those states tend to be the most ass-backwards due to both the current politics of the place (pro-marriage-no-matter-what—so punish people that want to divorce—anti-reform, “a woman’s place is in the home with her kids, etc.) AND who was in power when the last real stab at divorce reform happened around the ERA era (Democrats, who tried to address generations of misogynistic policies and culture by adding no-fault laws, presumption of paternity rulings, etc. to make sure women and children were taken care of in divorces as they historically hadn’t been) combined with the late-stage capitalism nightmare we’re all stuck in now where a single wage pays for less and less.

Like I’ve said before: the way men are treated in divorce today in a lot of states is an indirect result of misogyny, but the MRAs don’t want to admit that (because misogyny) and the left doesn’t want to piss off women by addressing one of the few systemic inequalities that often tilts in their favor.