Are you ever "justified" in using a racial slur?

[Recidiva]

Hide in some nice, fluffy threads, I'll protect you (and your hubs if he so desires ) and you know it'll all blow over, circle of life and all that.

All we need is love, baby

I'm afraid there is no hiding with LT following me and posting pages of porn, calling me a liar if I reference my husband, and warning everyone not to talk to the crazy racist lady. Nothing I mention about my life is off limits. So I have very little to talk about I don't feel is just going to be splattered with crap. Even me wishing UD a happy birthday resulted in pages of crap and calling me a liar about actually having a husband. Not quite what I'm going for.

I value your protection, but I'm afraid UD is more likely to want to kill than kiss and make up. Bringing my son into it makes it one of those unforgivable bits.

But, if I hold your hand and click my heels, maybe!

I'd rather believe in miracles

 

[3113]

No waters muddied here

The incident that I referred to in the original post was the one often flaunted by LT when called on his use of "retaliatory racism" The one involving a young hispanic boy, a child that called him a "monkey". He repeated it again here in fact. But the same reasoning has been used toward anyone who uses a slur against him "first". The justification that is unacceptable from a child: "They said it first!"...He attempted, and apparently succeeded in muddying the waters.

Again. He did no such thing. Stop trying to blame him for your error. This is NOT the GB. I can *SEE* exactly what you did and how you did it, and I saw it from the first, but I hoped I was wrong. I had this suspicion you were hiding the facts in order to get the answer you wanted, and you as good as said as much:

The only motive here was to show LT...that the results of that GB poll would likely be replicated here.

You USED us for your own selfish ends, without presenting us the all the facts to make an informed decision. And NOW you say, "Oh, here are the REAL facts! The ones LT didn't tell you! Don't blame me...."

YOU didn't tell us these facts! Of course I blame you. If you're fucking around, and you are fucking around, then don't blame anyone else if it turns into a muddy mess instead of the objective argument you wanted. You want an objective argument, present all the facts up front and with no hidden agenda.

We are readers and writers on this forum, we argue extensively and with facts and details. It's a lot harder to muddy our waters, and if you note in my original post about this, none of it changes my original answer to the question, just my feelings about you and this poll.

Let me put it this way: If I created a poll that used all the "facts" I think I know about you and this situation, and without naming names posted a poll on the GB asking "Is this guy a shithead?" and got a resounding "YES!" answer...then I replicated it down here and got a resounding "YES" answer, would you feel that this poll showed:

1) Inaccuracy as all the real facts of the situation and the argument were not presented by an unbias party?
2) Told the taker of the poll more about the person posting the poll (and his/her agenda) than about either the argument or the people involved?
3) Mattered not at all because it's the internet and you really can't trust internet results as you have a small and unrepresentative sample?
4) All of the above?

Because if you believe any of those, then you've pretty much negated YOUR poll--and there's no need for anyone else to come in an muddy it for you. I promise you, I can get whatever results I want if I present a hypothetical situation with the facts as I see them rather than the facts as they actually are. The minute I do that, I ruin the accuracy of the poll. This is what YOU did...

....and it's too fucking late to now tell us the REAL facts that might have changed or influenced our answer on the poll...what answers you offered us, which are ALSO limited, bias, and tell us more about you and your agenda than the argument.

 

[Recidiva]

Again. He did no such thing. Stop trying to blame him for your error. This is NOT the GB. I can *SEE* exactly what you did and how you did it, and I saw it from the first, but I hoped I was wrong. I had this suspicion you were hiding the facts in order to get the answer you wanted, and you as good as said as much:

You USED us for your own selfish ends, without presenting us the all the facts to make an informed decision. And NOW you say, "Oh, here are the REAL facts! The ones LT didn't tell you! Don't blame me...."

YOU didn't tell us these facts! Of course I blame you. If you're fucking around, and you are fucking around, then don't blame anyone else if it turns into a muddy mess instead of the objective argument you wanted. You want an objective argument, present all the facts up front and with no hidden agenda.

We are readers and writers on this forum, we argue extensively and with facts and details. It's a lot harder to muddy our waters, and if you note in my original post about this, none of it changes my original answer to the question, just my feelings about you and this poll.

Let me put it this way: If I created a poll that used all the "facts" I think I know about you and this situation, and without naming names posted a poll on the GB asking "Is this guy a shithead?" and got a resounding "YES!" answer...then I replicated it down here and got a resounding "YES" answer, would you feel that this poll showed:

1) Inaccuracy as all the real facts of the situation and the argument were not presented by an unbias party?
2) Told the taker of the poll more about the person posting the poll (and his/her agenda) than about either the argument or the people involved?
3) Mattered not at all because it's the internet and you really can't trust internet results as you have a small and unrepresentative sample?
4) All of the above?

Because if you believe any of those, then you've pretty much negated YOUR poll--and there's no need for anyone else to come in an muddy it for you. I promise you, I can get whatever results I want if I present a hypothetical situation with the facts as I see them rather than the facts as they actually are. The minute I do that, I ruin the accuracy of the poll. This is what YOU did...

....and it's too fucking late to now tell us the REAL facts that might have changed or influenced our answer on the poll...what answers you offered us, which are ALSO limited, bias, and tell us more about you and your agenda than the argument.

Yeah, like that.

Oh well.

I'm out.

 

[Wyldfire]

I do truely hope that the only outrage here is that facts weren't fully presented.

 

[3113]

I don't hate LT either. But I've got a thing about being called childish when if I don't defend myself, LT continues with this crap for months on end until everyone I know thinks I'm a racist moron.

And that's really wrong and I'm really mad at him for doing that.

But why are you dirtying OUR sandbox with it? If LT is going to follow you and shit on it, why did Ulaven bring it HERE?

Don't bring it here! Don't use us to continue a GB argument. And if you do, you'd better be willing to suffer the shit we're going to fling back at you as we try to clean this mess out of our sandbox. LT got it and tried to take it back out...so far, Ulaven hasn't. So why should I think worse of LT than Ulaven for that?

 

[English Lady]

I'm afraid there is no hiding with LT following me and posting pages of porn, calling me a liar if I reference my husband, and warning everyone not to talk to the crazy racist lady. Nothing I mention about my life is off limits. So I have very little to talk about I don't feel is just going to be splattered with crap. Even me wishing UD a happy birthday resulted in pages of crap and calling me a liar about actually having a husband. Not quite what I'm going for.

I value your protection, but I'm afraid UD is more likely to want to kill than kiss and make up. Bringing my son into it makes it one of those unforgivable bits.

But, if I hold your hand and click my heels, maybe!

I'd rather believe in miracles

*hugs* Well, love, you know where to find me.



And you can read my handwritng, I must send you another missive soon

 

[3113]

Yeah, like that.

Yes. Like that Recidiva. If someone is going to bring that shit here, than "Like that" is going to be the results. It was WRONG to bring it in here and drag us into it. If you want us to come to your defence like the fucking calvary, then you ASK us to come to the GB, read exactly what's going on, and likely we will come to your defense. With guns blazing and ropes for hanging.

You don't come down here and play us.

 

[Wyldfire]

Unlike someone else involved in this mess.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm a little confused here. We have a married couple spending gobs of time posting stuff on an erotica chat room board (most of which has nothing to do with erotica), sitting in the same house, obviously thinking of erotica or they wouldn't be on an erotica Web site, and absorbed in chat room fighting--maybe even at separate computers across the house from each other--and not able to think of anything more constructive to do with each other? It boggles the mind (and starts those giggles working their way up the throat). What a great idea for an erotic story to post on an erotica Web site. Wheels within wheels.

I must admit that I find Recidiva's avatar much more restful and less "setting off" than those of the other parties involved in this little spat. So I read her posting with less of an assumption of only finding uncontrolled anger and rant.

 

[jomar]

Hey! Where am I? Is there a posse?

 

[phrodeau]

And that's really wrong and I'm really mad at him for doing that.

But why are you dirtying OUR sandbox with it? If LT is going to follow you and shit on it, why did Ulaven bring it HERE?

Don't bring it here! Don't use us to continue a GB argument. And if you do, you'd better be willing to suffer the shit we're going to fling back at you as we try to clean this mess out of our sandbox. LT got it and tried to take it back out...so far, Ulaven hasn't. So why should I think worse of LT than Ulaven for that?

I'm just a visitor here, and I have some questions.

What would constitute an accurate poll on the internet?

How does one stake a claim to an internet bulletin board?

Why would it matter whether someone asked to remove a thread or not, when the thread remains?

Thanks.

 

[English Lady]

Personally, I feel it's just one thread that people can choose not to reply to if they so wish.

I'm sure Ulaven had no intention of dragging the argument over here, just to get some unbiased opinion on the situation. Okay, so maybe that was a little shy of being properly thought out, but I don't think it's a hanging offence.

It's not going to magically change the AH into the GB, the letters are totally different for a start. and it's not like we're a different country or something, we're all par of the same forum ,AH, am pics, Playground, GB etc -we're all the same, all under the literotica umberella.

What am I saying? I'm saying, in my opinion, this thread is a non-event, really, let's move on, eh?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PHRODEAU

People are territorial.

 

[sr71plt]

PHRODEAU

People are territorial.

They also tend to be terminal too. so, what the hell.

 

[phrodeau]

PHRODEAU

People are territorial.

I see. One mustn't piss on one's neighbor's tree; only the neighbor may do that.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PHRODEAU

It doesnt matter where you go, there are ALWAYS deluded individuals who think they own the turf. Sometimes it gets bizarre.

Back in 1981 I was president of a local club. The club funded various activities groups of members enjoyed, and the members kinda operated their concessions without interference from the executive officers. Like our monthly newspaper/magazine. Each fiscal year the officers gave the paper a pile of money to operate with, and that was the extent of our involvement unless the editors fucked up with the money.

Well, one of the concessions got the idea they could restrict access to their events-activities, and they got the idea they could assess dues and elect officers. So I had to slap them pretty hard.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Hide in some nice, fluffy threads, I'll protect you (and your hubs if he so desires ) and you know it'll all blow over, circle of life and all that.

All we need is love, baby

Can I hide in your nice, fluffy threads, too? Particularly the section where your big, beautifulicious bazoombas are?

I don't mean to crowd in where I wasn't invited, but my therapist (some call him "bartender") tells me to "think of a happy place," so...

 

[BlackShanglan]

If someone slaps you (not attacks so you have to defend yourself, just leaves a nice stingy palm print in your face), are you justified to slap back?

Eh. I think the question is rather, should you slap that person back, or slap him and everyone who looks like him?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Eh. I think the question is rather, should you slap that person back, or slap him and everyone who looks like him?

What if the person is not a him but a her...and what if I slap her not on her face, but on her pale, smooth, broad-breamed ass? Repeatedly-like, until the point is firmly driven home? What then?

 

[gauchecritic]

I don't think you're taking this seriously Irezumi.

 

[Wyldfire]

Should the drama ever be taken seriously?

 

[BlackShanglan]

If you like, sure.

The last time I actually posted in response to ami was to tell him that no, I didn't hate him, but that I honestly felt sorry for him. Haven't bothered with him since.

*laugh*



Cloudy, it might interest, amaze, or amuse you to know that on that thread Recidiva linked to (http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=543965), I cited you dealing with Amicus as a perfect example of how one deals with racists without becoming one. I thought you did wonderfully.

As for the nuts and bolts of this ... the thread linked above was begun on the GB, by Loving Tongue, with a title indicating that certain persons were "white trash." I posted to say that that disappointed me, as I'd seen LT on the AH and while we didn't always agree, I'd thought him above that. Tit-for-tat ensued, with LT taking the position that slurs were fine once someone else had hurled the first.

I suspect this poll ended up on the AH because LT invoked the AH in the course of the GB thread. He said, rather kindly, that the AH folk were so much more polite and intelligent that we never resorted to that sort of garbage. I agreed (we really are a charming bunch, let's face it), but pointed out that part of the reason we see so much less of it is that we don't respond to it with truckloads more. That I still think true.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I don't think you're taking this seriously Irezumi.

Gauche, I take offense to your baseless assertion that I would not give a weighty topic such as the use of racial sobriquets amongst people of various backgrounds its dignified due. In fact, I would almost daresay that you are signaling me out in particular because I happen to be non-Caucasian, and that...that...that...

...uhhhh...that...

oh...your eyes...they're so...pretty...

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Again. He did no such thing. Stop trying to blame him for your error. This is NOT the GB. I can *SEE* exactly what you did and how you did it, and I saw it from the first, but I hoped I was wrong. I had this suspicion you were hiding the facts in order to get the answer you wanted, and you as good as said as much:

You USED us for your own selfish ends, without presenting us the all the facts to make an informed decision. And NOW you say, "Oh, here are the REAL facts! The ones LT didn't tell you! Don't blame me...."

YOU didn't tell us these facts! Of course I blame you. If you're fucking around, and you are fucking around, then don't blame anyone else if it turns into a muddy mess instead of the objective argument you wanted. You want an objective argument, present all the facts up front and with no hidden agenda.

We are readers and writers on this forum, we argue extensively and with facts and details. It's a lot harder to muddy our waters, and if you note in my original post about this, none of it changes my original answer to the question, just my feelings about you and this poll.

Let me put it this way: If I created a poll that used all the "facts" I think I know about you and this situation, and without naming names posted a poll on the GB asking "Is this guy a shithead?" and got a resounding "YES!" answer...then I replicated it down here and got a resounding "YES" answer, would you feel that this poll showed:

1) Inaccuracy as all the real facts of the situation and the argument were not presented by an unbias party?
2) Told the taker of the poll more about the person posting the poll (and his/her agenda) than about either the argument or the people involved?
3) Mattered not at all because it's the internet and you really can't trust internet results as you have a small and unrepresentative sample?
4) All of the above?

Because if you believe any of those, then you've pretty much negated YOUR poll--and there's no need for anyone else to come in an muddy it for you. I promise you, I can get whatever results I want if I present a hypothetical situation with the facts as I see them rather than the facts as they actually are. The minute I do that, I ruin the accuracy of the poll. This is what YOU did...

....and it's too fucking late to now tell us the REAL facts that might have changed or influenced our answer on the poll...what answers you offered us, which are ALSO limited, bias, and tell us more about you and your agenda than the argument.

Wow..

I had no idea that asking a simple question, presenting exactly every fact to get an opinion was such a foreign thing. Especially when someone is looking for an opinion unbiased by respondents knowing exactly who the principle involved is. You act as if this were intended as a "hit job" from the very beginning, which is patently untrue, otherwise I would have just come right in, guns blazing and tossing accusations and innuendo willy nilly. I'm not shy and if you think for a moment that I would be concerned that I might somehow lose face in the AH or anywhere else you're sorely mistaken. But that's not how this went down.

Re-read my initial post, the question asked and the choices given in the poll. No information was held back. There was no twisting of any truth. It's a simple question based on the scenario provided, as is just about any poll. There is no "rest of the story" that would have influenced the results. I wanted the opinion of a group of people that LT professes to respect since a corresponding poll on the GB months ago was and is still dismissed by him as not representative of reality (since it put him firmly in the minority).

Although after seeing his initial reaction, immediate defense mode followed by PMs from him laughing after he managed to convince you specifically that this was something that it wasn't, I'm not so sure that he respects the people at the AH any more than he respects anyone on the GB.

It's all a game to him, and you're being manipulated alright, but it damn sure isn't by me. With luck he has at least let you in on the rules of the game he's playing, before he decides that one of you are enough of a threat to try to get you fired from whatever job you rely on for your income. Ask him about that sometime, it's a real hoot how proud he is of that particular event. Better yet, ask about the trip he made cross country to meet up with someone for a real world fight over an online run-in. See, had I really intended to expose LT for what he really is I don't need to post polls, twist any facts, just guide anyone who thinks that they're dealing with someone even remotely rational to his very own words.

Just as a small example... http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=22480372&postcount=265

I'm sure Assmeal doesn't want me to rehash how I cost him his job for trying to stalk me, or how I posted his name and address. Unlike Assmeal, I do damage.

Anyone who wants Assmeal's real name and address can PM me.

Ah, but that's another issue entirely. Who am I to warn you of the snake coiled so lovingly around your ankles? Enjoy.

 

[xssve]

I've been kicked out of forums for quoting the N word in defense of PC - probobly by racists on the losing side of the argument - so for practical reasons, no - for emotional and personal reasons, also no, although the shock value can occasionally facilitate actual humor, most racial based humor is really just small minded bias posing as humor, it's intellectually lazy, atavistic, and may well reflect real underlying fundamental mental deficiancies IMO, at the very least in the area of empathetic response, which might indicate sociopathy or even psychopathy.