That gun control arguement.....

[warrior queen]

I have a question...
The standard response to any attempt at gun control is 'I have the right to have a gun to defend myself' and almost every site I've been on since this latest shooting has folks saying that 'if MORE people had conceal-carry permits, someone would have been able to stop the shooting by killing the guy'....
If that were really the case, why don't we ever hear a news story where "a Citizen Joe thwarted a mass killing today by shooting a crazy dude who was intent on causing maximum casualties"????
Nobody legit who carries a gun ever seems to be in the right place!

 

[duranman]

I have a question...
The standard response to any attempt at gun control is 'I have the right to have a gun to defend myself' and almost every site I've been on since this latest shooting has folks saying that 'if MORE people had conceal-carry permits, someone would have been able to stop the shooting by killing the guy'....
If that were really the case, why don't we ever hear a news story where "a Citizen Joe thwarted a mass killing today by shooting a crazy dude who was intent on causing maximum casualties"????
Nobody legit who carries a gun ever seems to be in the right place!

Exactly. Gun advocators were without exception bullied at school. Fact...

 

[JohnnySavage]

In 2012, there were 8,855 criminal gun homicides in the FBI's homicide database, but only 258 gun killings by private citizens that were deemed justifiable, which the FBI defines as "the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen."

That works out to one justifiable gun death for every 34 unjustifiable gun deaths.

Or, look at it this way. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data shows that in 2012 there were 20,666 suicides by gun. That works out to one self-defense killing for every 78 gun suicides. CDC data show that there were more than twice as many accidental gun fatalities as as justifiable killings.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...elf-defense-34-innocent-people-die/?tid=sm_fb

 

[FGB]

Here is some food for thought...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/martin-albright/does-ccw-prevent-mass-shootings/

 

[Noor]

It does happen.

Gunman Shot, Killed Inside West Philly Barbershop

Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square

Armed customer fatally shoots gunman at Houston restaurant

Gunman invades Dollar General, meets concealed carry permit holder

Customer kills gunman during Jacksonville robbery attempt

these are the first ones I pulled up on Google, there are more.

 

[Noor]

In 2012, there were 8,855 criminal gun homicides in the FBI's homicide database, but only 258 gun killings by private citizens that were deemed justifiable, which the FBI defines as "the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen."

That works out to one justifiable gun death for every 34 unjustifiable gun deaths.

Or, look at it this way. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data shows that in 2012 there were 20,666 suicides by gun. That works out to one self-defense killing for every 78 gun suicides. CDC data show that there were more than twice as many accidental gun fatalities as as justifiable killings.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...elf-defense-34-innocent-people-die/?tid=sm_fb

Just to be the devil's advocate, but how many of those 8,855 criminal gun homicides were done by legally registered handguns or even legal guns and how many were done by Saturday night specials or equivalents?

Accidental gun killings are probably due to a lack of education or Darwin award stuff. Suicides will use whatever means is handy if they really want to die.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Just to be the devil's advocate, but how many of those 8,855 criminal gun homicides were done by legally registered handguns or even legal guns and how many were done by Saturday night specials or equivalents?

Accidental gun killings are probably due to a lack of education or Darwin award stuff. Suicides will use whatever means is handy if they really want to die.

Not true about suicides.

 

[Noor]

I don't carry, although my father, several friends and my ghost would like me to.
I did learn to shoot a pistol when I was 9.

I prefer to be gun free, but I am used to guns being around.
If I were living where I was born or certain other places, I probably would be carrying. One of the reasons I live where I live is that it is reasonably safe.

I don't frequent fast food, churches, clubs ...
I know this is meaningless, gunman can happen anywhere, even local elementary schools.

Certain individuals should not be able to get gun permits. There used to be a CA law that anyone who aids or abets in a major crime is equally guilty with the direct participants and providing guns used in a crime was included. This might not be a bad law to have everywhere.

 

[Noor]

Not true about suicides.

There are a lot of non alcohol related one car accidents too...

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I have a question...
The standard response to any attempt at gun control is 'I have the right to have a gun to defend myself' and almost every site I've been on since this latest shooting has folks saying that 'if MORE people had conceal-carry permits, someone would have been able to stop the shooting by killing the guy'....
If that were really the case, why don't we ever hear a news story where "a Citizen Joe thwarted a mass killing today by shooting a crazy dude who was intent on causing maximum casualties"????
Nobody legit who carries a gun ever seems to be in the right place!

Your argument is self-defeating. If MORE people (than those who do so now) carried a concealed weapon under authority of a lawful permit, MORE people would theoretically be in a position to stop a violent gun crime if they happened to be there when such a crime occurred.

The reason "nobody legit" ever seems to be in the right place is simply because an insignificant number of people have made use of concealed carry permits. If MORE people did so (but it would probably need to be a WHOLE LOT MORE), then the odds of one of them being in the right place would increase.

Surely you get that?

There really is an insufficient amount of data to judge whether the number of gun carrying citizens who have thwarted armed crimes is more, less, or about equal to what should be expected given the number of said gun owners and the number of said crimes.

 

[JohnnySavage]

So what you are saying... for example; if everyone in the dark theater in Aurora had been armed, and one guy walks in and starts shooting, less people would be dead had everyone stood up and started shooting?

That gets you an

It always baffles me that every Joe Blow with a gun is Rambo who is a dead-eye shot when under fire. Even highly trained police officers aren't that good.

 

[eyer]

Nobody legit who carries a gun ever seems to be in the right place!

...258 gun killings by private citizens that were deemed justifiable, which the FBI defines as "the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen."

Oops...

...now, Johnboy, tell the class how many lives those 258 justifiables could've saved.

258 maybe the minimum, and whatever the maximum...

...nonetheless, looks like the facts say that more than every 2 out of 3 days in America, someone "legit who carries a gun" "seems to be in the right place".

No doubt not enough for biased you, wanker queen...

...but whatever could be enough to someone who favors the intentionally induced abortion of over 40 million of the most innocent among us every year...year after year year after year year after year year after year year after year year after year year after year year after yearyear after year year after year.

BTW (the obvious answer notwithstanding)...

...what is America's business to a foreigner racist piece of shit like you?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

There are a lot of non alcohol related one car accidents too...

That are suicides?

 

[SinInMe]

"Certain individuals should not be able to get gun permits."

Generally, those who get off on having one are the least fit to have one.

 

[eyer]

"Certain individuals should not be able to get gun permits."

Generally, those who get off on having one are the least fit to have one.

And, you forgot to playground cunt add...

...they all have little dicks.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

So what you are saying... for example; if everyone in the dark theater in Aurora had been armed, and one guy walks in and starts shooting, less people would be dead had everyone stood up and started shooting?

That gets you an

It always baffles me that every Joe Blow with a gun is Rambo who is a dead-eye shot when under fire. Even highly trained police officers aren't that good.

Not exactly. What I am saying is that if everyone was armed when a lunatic entered a theater and started shooting, any ONE or TWO of the people BEHIND or CLOSEST to him could take him out and preclude the need for the other theater patrons to fire THEIR weapons.

Does that scenario help, or do you want to continue to hypothesize the absurd recreation of the Normandy lnvasion with every possible scenario in which lawfully armed citizens might intervene in the commission of a violent crime?

Such intervention would not preclude the possibility of collateral injuries or even deaths, but the nonsense of your "hail of simultaneous gunfire" from every lawful concealed carrier is every bit as silly as the "dead-eye Rambo" example you seek to ridicule.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Not exactly. What I am saying is that if everyone was armed when a lunatic entered a theater and started shooting, any ONE or TWO of the people BEHIND or CLOSEST to him could take him out and preclude the need for the other theater patrons to fire THEIR weapons.

Does that scenario help, or do you want to continue to hypothesize the absurd recreation of the Normandy lnvasion with every possible scenario in which lawfully armed citizens might intervene in the commission of a violent crime?

Such intervention would not preclude the possibility of collateral injuries or even deaths, but the nonsense of your "hail of simultaneous gunfire" from every lawful concealed carrier is every bit as silly as the "dead-eye Rambo" example you seek to ridicule.

That's laughable. But it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, God bless ya.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Your argument is self-defeating. If MORE people (than those who do so now) carried a concealed weapon under authority of a lawful permit, MORE people would theoretically be in a position to stop a violent gun crime if they happened to be there when such a crime occurred.

The reason "nobody legit" ever seems to be in the right place is simply because an insignificant number of people have made use of concealed carry permits. If MORE people did so (but it would probably need to be a WHOLE LOT MORE), then the odds of one of them being in the right place would increase.

Surely you get that?

There really is an insufficient amount of data to judge whether the number of gun carrying citizens who have thwarted armed crimes is more, less, or about equal to what should be expected given the number of said gun owners and the number of said crimes.

What evidence leads you to think that the person trying to stop the felony would always make things better?

 

[VaticanAssassin]

So what your saying is if a deranged man walked in to a church and started killing people, a women with a concealed weapon in her purse would have no chance at shooting him and saving lives?

 

[SinInMe]

Permits don't kill people; guns do. But that's beside the point in the US. We have a gun and ammo industry to protect and serve. That's only fair, since, In turn, it protects and serves many interests: the NRA, drug, weapons and human traffickers; ISIL wannabes; biker gangs; rogue law enforcers; manufacturers and retailers of concealed carry bras; members of hate groups.

 

[Noor]

That are suicides?

I have always thought so esp. family guys with large life insurance policies, medical problems and no car problems. You just pick a rain night, grave or leaves... It's hard to prove which is the whole point.

 

[Rangudo]

Permits don't kill people; guns do. But that's beside the point in the US. We have a gun and ammo industry to protect and serve. That's only fair, since, In turn, it protects and serves many interests: the NRA, drug, weapons and human traffickers; ISIL wannabes; biker gangs; rogue law enforcers; manufacturers and retailers of concealed carry bras; members of hate groups.

The president has done a great job of protecting the gun stores. Every time he opens his yap about gun control, or BATF tries to outlaw a caliber of bullet, customers flock to the stores.

 

[renard_ruse]

If you don't like guns, don't buy one or own one.

Pretty simple. Next subject.

 

[SinInMe]

If you don't like guns, don't buy one or own one.

Pretty simple. Next subject.

Brilliant.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

What evidence leads you to think that the person trying to stop the felony would always make things better?

I never said that, nor do I necessarily believe it. If I irrefutably believed it, I would own a gun myself. Instead, I do not wish to shoulder the responsibility of having to decide in an instant whether to take another person's life, even if in lawful self-defense or defense of others.

Neither do I wish to take the risk of a tragic gun accident at home or elsewhere.

But I do recognize the possibility that a lawfully armed citizen attempting to stop a violent felony in progress MIGHT make things better. I simply support those citizens who wish to lawfully keep and bear arms. Nothing more or less.