Anyone in the swingng lifestyle here? Riddle me this...

[jomar]

It has come to my attention that many males males identify themselves as straight on their online profiles whether individually or as part of a couple. Behind the scenes however, they want bi sex and cite a bias against bi men in the swinging world.

Can anybody shed light on this? It fascinates me that there is this phenomenon in a such a sexually liberal world.

 

[ms.read]

it appears to me that society is in the process of shedding some of it's homophobic layers, and this bias happens to be one that hasn't come off yet...

 

[jomar]

Ha! But why? I'd think that this group would just shrug it off and move on to their brand of kink without judgment.

 

[3113]

I'm not surprised that there is a bias against bi-men in the swinging lifestyle. It goes with the general homophobia that most men in our culture have in regards to sexual "fun" (i.e. erotic fantasies). Meaning, I'm sure the couples don't mind if the women go bi-sexual with each other, but the men are mostly after fun with other women, and a bi-male probably scares them. They don't want to be propositioned by him, they want to be propositioned by her.

I imagine that being propositioned by him rather than his wife--or by both--would kill the sexual allure. After all, there is that in the swinging lifestyle...you're getting to fuck another man's woman. That has to have some sexual charge to it. But if the man is after you--that kinda puts a damper on the whole thing doesn't it? You're not taking her from him; rather, he's actively into you and his interest in you is driving the arrangement, maybe including his ceding the wife to you in order to get a various thrill from the two of you being together.

If you see what I mean.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Here's a Great Truth: When a man and a woman are equal the man is perceived as inferior to the woman.

 

[slyc_willie]

I'm not surprised that there is a bias against bi-men in the swinging lifestyle. It goes with the general homophobia that most men in our culture have in regards to sexual "fun" (i.e. erotic fantasies). Meaning, I'm sure the couples don't mind if the women go bi-sexual with each other, but the men are mostly after fun with other women, and a bi-male probably scares them. They don't want to be propositioned by him, they want to be propositioned by her.

I imagine that being propositioned by him rather than his wife--or by both--would kill the sexual allure. After all, there is that in the swinging lifestyle...you're getting to fuck another man's woman. That has to have some sexual charge to it. But if the man is after you--that kinda puts a damper on the whole thing doesn't it? You're not taking her from him; rather, he's actively into you and his interest in you is driving the arrangement, maybe including his ceding the wife to you in order to get a various thrill from the two of you being together.

If you see what I mean.

I think another fear arises from the assumption of many that there's no such thing as a bisexual man. Sure, women can go both ways, and that's considered hot, if not damn near required of the modern, sexually liberated woman. But a man willing to touch another man sexually is considered by many other men to be on the road to coming out of the closet.

Several years ago, before I met Secret, I knew a couple who were swingers. They both found me attractive and I liked them, too. So when they suggested we all get together, I went for it. It was an interesting, exciting and satisfying experience, and was my first time with both a man and a woman simultaneously.

Not long after, I related the story of my experience to a friend at work, whom I thought was as open-minded as I. To my surprise, after I recounted some rather juicy details, he looked at me and said, "I didn't know you were gay."

I said, "I'm not. I'm bi."

To which he replied, "Dude, you're a guy. You're either gay or straight. You suck another guy's dick, you're gay."

I heard similar sentiments from close female friends, as well. One of whom, I later learned, had at one point told a mutual friend that she thought about asking me out before she "learned that I was really gay."

There seems to be this hypocritical viewpoint that women are allowed to swing however they wish, but a man must either be totally straight or totally gay, no exceptions. Every single gay man I've met who learned I was bi took it as an automatic assumption that I was actually gay and had just not yet come out of the closet. Yet here I am, years later, happily married to a woman and enjoying an active sex life without any feelings of desire for another man.

On the other side of the coin, my wife and I have had a few threesomes with other women, and the establishment of bisexuality was never questioned. Our female partners have never just assumed that eventually, my wife is going to come out of the closet and leave me for another woman. No, because being a bisexual woman is understood, accepted, and for many a man out there, even preferred. But tell the world you're a bisexual man, and you're either lying to yourself or just haven't accepted the eventual truth.

What bullshit. Oh, well. I'm just glad I met someone like my wife, whom I could tell about my past sexual exploits with men without her fearing I was going to wake up some day and "realize" I'd rather be with a man.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I think women are 'allowed' to be bi because then they're still sexy objects of desire - indeed even more so, they're obviously only swinging with women to get the men going .

If a man is bi, he's a subject experiencing desire for you, and then you, a man, are objectified. Or he wants to be the object of your attentions. Men aren't supposed to be objects of desire, they're supposed to be macho subjects who desire others.

 

[jomar]

Thanks all.

Interesting, slyc.

 

[sr71plt]

I have to wonder how squeashy the foundation is for your premise. Who told you this, based on what?

 

[3113]

On the other side of the coin, my wife and I have had a few threesomes with other women, and the establishment of bisexuality was never questioned. Our female partners have never just assumed that eventually, my wife is going to come out of the closet and leave me for another woman. No, because being a bisexual woman is understood, accepted, and for many a man out there, even preferred. But tell the world you're a bisexual man, and you're either lying to yourself or just haven't accepted the eventual truth.

Excellent point. You're totally right that there's an on-going bias towards bi-men as if they couldn't possibly exist--which means that if a swinging guy has bi-sexual feelings not only might he question it, but the object of his interest might hold back, too. Neither one wanting to be seen as gay either by other swingers or possibly the women they're involved with as the prejudice is evidently not exclusive to guys.

 

[sr71plt]

An axiom that most people are in denial about: sex is sex is sex.

 

[3113]

I have to wonder how squeashy the foundation is for your premise. Who told you this, based on what?

I don't know where Jomar heard it, but you can find a solid foundation for it by simply goggling "bi-males in swinging lifestyle." It is a valid question about a very real bias that, from the number of hits I got, produces a lot of discussion among swingers. Here's a rant from one swinging woman with a bi-sexual husband about this apparently very common prejudice (from here):

For the most part, it is couples where the male is straight, and they claim that they would indeed dismiss meeting (or conversing with, even) a bisexual male, because....and this just takes the biscuit....they think that the man will force bisexual activity between him and the straight male. So essentially, the argument is that a bi man cannot be trusted to keep his desire for men in check, and not only that, that he will 'obviously' be attracted to the man; thus ALL men. It gets worse. Some of the couples linked the fear of STI's with going with bisexual men, even though there would be no interaction between the two guys (not that it should matter either way!). When i noted that this was a form of bi-phobia, i have been shot down several times, the excuses being that it is had been "their experience" that bi males will go bareback. This is totally untrue. In fact, any messages i have had about bareback, have come from straight males, and sometimes couples where they are both, or the male is straight. Bareback is sadly being linked with the bi male

 

[sr71plt]

No sexual activity between the two males in a MFM threesome--or the danger that that might happen? *snort* What have these people been smoking?

 

[Stella_Omega]

No sexual activity between the two males in a MFM threesome--or the danger that that might happen? *snort* What have these people been smoking?

They've been smoking heteronormativity.

 

[Saxon_Hart]

I have a slightly different question to ask here. Why is any guy who is not turned on by the thought of male on male action automatically labeled as homophobic? I mean scat doesn't turn a lot of people on and I don't see them being call turdophobic. Oh the shit that piques my curiosity. pardon the pun.

 

[heather_baby]

It seems like the author of this thread is simply trying to call someone out on their hypocritical life style. Well played.

 

[sr71plt]

I have a slightly different question to ask here. Why is any guy who is not turned on by the thought of male on male action automatically labeled as homophobic? I mean scat doesn't turn a lot of people on and I don't see them being call turdophobic. Oh the shit that piques my curiosity. pardon the pun.

First the premise. Who's doing that?

My point, though, is that in MFM action, if a guy can get and maintain a hard on in sex play involving both a woman and a man, it ain't only the women who has him aroused.

 

[Saxon_Hart]

First the premise. Who's doing that?

My point, though, is that in MFM action, if a guy can get and maintain a hard on in sex play involving both a woman and a man, it ain't only the women who has him aroused.

No one here is doing that, but I have seen in other forums and pages where a guy professes disdain for male to male activity and he gets piled on with bigot, and homophobe comments.

 

[sr71plt]

No one here is doing that, but I have seen in other forums and pages where a guy professes disdain for male to male activity and he gets piled on with bigot, and homophobe comments.

Well, I don't think that's right either--but your first posting on this left the impression that you were asserting that everyone has that attitude.

On the other hand, If a man professes disdain for male to male activity, there's a reason behind it--why he both professes on it and professes disdain when he professes. For him to actually profess disdain, what is you think is behind that reason? If there's nothing behind it that's prejudicial, why is he (A) professing and (B) doing so with disdain?

 

[Safe_Bet]

No one here is doing that, but I have seen in other forums and pages where a guy professes disdain for male to male activity and he gets piled on with bigot, and homophobe comments.

Ya see, that's the thing, dude... if you "professes disdain" you are treating the LGBT person as less than and fucking of COURSE you are going to get called a bigot and homophobe because you ARE one.

Nobody says that you HAVE to be gay or bi, take part in anything related or what ever. What "WE" (I, at least) insist upon is that you treat me & my orientation with the same respect you give str8 people. You DON'T get to hold me in "distain" without me returning the favor.

 

[heather_baby]

Well, I don't think that's right either--but your first posting on this left the impression that you were asserting that everyone has that attitude.

On the other hand, If a man professes disdain for male to male activity, there's a reason behind it--why he both professes on it and professes disdain when he professes. For him to actually profess disdain, what is you think is behind that reason? If there's nothing behind it that's prejudicial, why is he (A) professing and (B) doing so with disdain?

Here's an idea. Why don't you guys just make a pole about it so you can hear other people's opinions (preferably men) as well. Instead of just arguing, and trying to profess that you gentleman know what other men are thinking about this certain topic. I think it would save a whole lot of trouble. Not to mention, at least once you get the results, you could at least have facts to debate on, instead of uncertainties.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have a slightly different question to ask here. Why is any guy who is not turned on by the thought of male on male action automatically labeled as homophobic? I mean scat doesn't turn a lot of people on and I don't see them being call turdophobic. Oh the shit that piques my curiosity. pardon the pun.

"not turned on by" is not homophobic, it's merely heterosexual.

Expressing disdain and dislike for gays because they are gay-- that's homophobia.

Also, jumping into the Big Bi Pool every chance he gets and insisting that he's straight just might be hypocrisy.

In my experience, men who are genuinely hetero are not threatened by the idea of gay sex. It's just meaningless to them.

Men who are bisexual but repress that impulse in themselves-- they are the ones that go apeshit with hatred and fear. And far more men are bisexual-and-repressed than authentically hetero.

Also, be careful about your comparisons. Gay sex and turds? You could have done better there.

 

[sr71plt]

Here's an idea. Why don't you guys just make a pole about it so you can hear other people's opinions (preferably men) as well. Instead of just arguing, and trying to profess that you gentleman know what other men are thinking about this certain topic. I think it would save a whole lot of trouble. Not to mention, at least once you get the results, you could at least have facts to debate on, instead of uncertainties.

How high should this "pole" be, do you think?

I kind of think thinking a good statistic would come out of even a poll on this is pretty naive thinking.

 

[heather_baby]

How high should this "pole" be, do you think?

I kind of think thinking a good statistic would come out of even a poll on this is pretty naive thinking.

Haha .
You do have a point. I just thought it might get them to quit bickering about things that they don't even know. Unless one of these men conversing is in fact "living this thread" meaning that this is one of those "story of my life" situations, then how would they know? I figured it would maybe help to get some real opinions from men who are and do experience this on a daily basis. Just looking at everything from an objective standpoint is all. Everyone need objectivity every now and again .

 

[voluptuary_manque]

And far more men are bisexual than truly hetero.

Or they would be if they had more same-sex experiences while forming their own sexuality. I believe that is the root of the Classical World's general attitude that, as Pilot puts it, sex is sex is sex. The attitude seems to have managed to last fairly well for the next couple of thousand years until the XIV Century. For some reason, though, in the 1300's homophobia sort of 'swept' Western Europe. No one has put a good explanation of this in print, to my knowledge, but the same Church that in earlier centuries had official rites for blessing the union of same sex couples turned downright violently against the very thought of such. Unfortunately, the Vatican's gerontocracy is still living that nonsense.

Anyway, if little boys were freer to grow up cuddling and fondling with other little boys before they started in on girls, I suspect (with absolutely no evidence to back me up) that it would be less of an issue than it is today.

At least today's younger folk are a lot more tolerant of GLBT people than their forebears. Prop 8 and DOMA will die. How long that will take remains to be seen.