The dynamics of the dating world in the modern era...

[Britva415]

I'm not saying this is what happened to you, but I have heard that there are some OF models who use sites like this not to find hookups but in an attempt to get you to sign up for their subscription site of choice (onlyfans, fansly, etc). They'll start the conversation like a hookup is possible, but gosh wouldn't you know it she's washing her hair tonight and maybe, before your first date, you'd like to sign up over here for a couple bucks to get a little preview of what the real date might be like!

I hope you find what you're looking for, whatever that is, because we all deserve to be happy.

I was totally gonna say:

@OP, @Belegon , how far have you taken any of these approaches? Did none of them turn out to be catfishers of some magnitude or another?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Everyone so addicted to dopamine that they're scrolling through Twitter while watching a movie and trying to hold a conversation all at once, and still bored.

The connection being the "goldfish only have a three-second memory" meme.

(Which is a myth: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-02-19/goldfish-three-second-memory-myth-busted/1046710)

 

[lovecraft68]

[No personal attacks or trolling - including creating accounts for this specific purpose. Heated discussions are fine, even welcome. However, personally attacking / kink-shaming a fellow author or reader is not allowed within the Author's Hangout. Threads which devolve into the exchanging of insults will be closed and repeat offenders will be given a timeout, per the AH rules.]

 

[jaF0]

The connection being the "goldfish only have a three-second memory" meme.

(Which is a myth: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-02-19/goldfish-three-second-memory-myth-busted/1046710)

I don't know about goldfish, but mine isn't much better.

 

[AG31]

[No personal attacks or trolling - including creating accounts for this specific purpose. Heated discussions are fine, even welcome. However, personally attacking / kink-shaming a fellow author or reader is not allowed within the Author's Hangout. Threads which devolve into the exchanging of insults will be closed and repeat offenders will be given a timeout, per the AH rules.]

????? What the...?????

 

[1darknightowl]

well, I recently took my first real shot at online dating...

I have a few observations, some of which may be only relevant to the online version but some of which might be more widespread...

The first is that what I thought might be my most limiting factor was exactly the opposite. My age. Now, I'll preface this to say I was mostly on what the kids probably call "Hook Up Sites". They focused on women in the geographical area and there was a pretty fair amount of profiles saying they were looking for No Strings Attached and/or Friends With Benefits type of relationships. My results would indicate that either the women posting these are deceiving themselves or that the women responding to ME were generally more interested in a more drawn out relationship. But that wasn't one the things I found surprising. I got a fair amount of interest from women in my age group: and some of those were, IMHO, among the most attractive on the site.

But I also got a huge amount of response from much younger women. And I don't mean late 30s/early 40s, which was already younger than my profile indicated I was interested in (I set my age range as 45-65). No, I'm talking about a very large response from late 20s and even some as young as 19. And the younger ones were almost exclusively looking for a relationship, not a hookup or a friend with benefits. ( I had put as the very first line of my profile that I wasn't looking for long-term due to my cancer diagnosis)

This has drawn my curiosity. So, while I was responding to a few of the accounts that seemed most realistic about expectations (and in the beginning of this process, I was definitely looking to get laid.) I also asked some of these younger women, "why all the interest in a guy like me? I'm twice your age (for some, 3x). Why would you be hitting on ME? I got a wide crossection of answers.But as I looked at them, I discovered the common theme. The majority of these young women talked about how disappointed they were with young me.And I realized that we have an entire generation of younger men that have absolutely no clue how to talk to a woman. They know how to respond to an authority figure who is female (or seem to) by treating her like a slightly less aggressive man. They know, or think they know, how to talk to a whore. In this case, I am not necessarily talking about a pro. I mean the girl they classify as a "Hoe". More sexually available, more aggressive and typically more defensive as well. But talking to a woman between those two extremes?? Clueless. Abso-fucking-luetely Clueless. And they have even less of an idea how to treat a lady. We have raised a generation of sexual idiots! And I freely admit that I could be portrayed as having taken advantage of the situation. My new girlfriend is 27.

The women my own age were almost exclusively looking just for sex. Most of them were divorced or widowed, but a pretty fair percentage were married and wished to keep things 'DISCREET' ....not that the younger ranks were devoid of this kind of petitioner.


Also, the "era of the dick pick" might have done those of us who just want to see pictures of naked girls a big favor. A VERY high percentage of these women sent me nudes or partial nudes within the first few minutes of contact. A non-insignificant number sent them to me in their very first message. And a large percentage of them were quite attractive.

The last thing I'll talk about in this post is that the era of reluctance towards sexual adventure is all but gone, at least in this demographic. I received multiple invitations to threesomes. Anal was all but expected. I even had a 25 year old, that opened our conversation with a picture of possibly the very prettiest pussy I have ever seen, that asked me if I was willing to follow up cumming in her mouth with sticking my dick in the back of her mouth and PEEING DOWN HER THROAT. In all my years of depravity, this is the first time I've been asked to do this. Rimming. which used to equally rare, was a common request, however.

I have to admit I read this with some giggles. But I do wonder how much truth there is to it?
I do wonder how the iPhone generation will sift through the scamers, porn sites touting for business etc. to find what they want. I have noticed a lack of patience and recently met a 16yr old who has never used a telephone for what Graham Bell invented it for.

It's possible that there really are 19-year-old women out there looking for a relationship with a much older guy with no nefarious motives, eager to send nudes and go straight to kinky sex. But if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

There may be women at 19 looking for us older men but if a 19yr old {probably any age} opened the conversation with a nude I would probably run a mile.

 

[oneagainst]

[writes notes furiously]

[shelves half-finished dating profile in cowardly act of retreat]

 

[TheLobster]

????? What the...?????

Now I'm curious what it was before mod deleted it. LC68 can be pretty snappish but I don't remember him ever getting even a mild slap on the wrist from moderators.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Now I'm curious what it was before mod deleted it. LC68 can be pretty snappish but I don't remember him ever getting even a mild slap on the wrist from moderators.

It was what is sometimes called 'thread whining' on other forums - a generally unhappiness with the nature of the threads the OP was creating but also expressed in such a way which could be read as a (mildish) personal attack.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

What set LC off was undoubtedly the O.P.'s previous thread where he described his divorce in a seemingly onesided way, with the O.P. being painted as a good guy and the wife being irrational and mean for no reason.
I of course have no idea what the truth is nor is that any business of mine, but not all people react the same.
That being said, LC's post was criticizing towards the O.P. and a jab of a sort but nothing that warrants a reaction from a mod. There were no direct insults.
But again, with all these mods and admins lurking...
What I am also curious to hear is whether these mods and admins are new, or we simply have a tattletale member/mod who reports on everything.

 

[MetaBob]

well, I recently took my first real shot at online dating...

I have a few observations, some of which may be only relevant to the online version but some of which might be more widespread...

The first is that what I thought might be my most limiting factor was exactly the opposite. My age. Now, I'll preface this to say I was mostly on what the kids probably call "Hook Up Sites". They focused on women in the geographical area and there was a pretty fair amount of profiles saying they were looking for No Strings Attached and/or Friends With Benefits type of relationships. My results would indicate that either the women posting these are deceiving themselves or that the women responding to ME were generally more interested in a more drawn out relationship. But that wasn't one the things I found surprising. I got a fair amount of interest from women in my age group: and some of those were, IMHO, among the most attractive on the site.

But I also got a huge amount of response from much younger women. And I don't mean late 30s/early 40s, which was already younger than my profile indicated I was interested in (I set my age range as 45-65). No, I'm talking about a very large response from late 20s and even some as young as 19. And the younger ones were almost exclusively looking for a relationship, not a hookup or a friend with benefits. ( I had put as the very first line of my profile that I wasn't looking for long-term due to my cancer diagnosis)

This has drawn my curiosity. So, while I was responding to a few of the accounts that seemed most realistic about expectations (and in the beginning of this process, I was definitely looking to get laid.) I also asked some of these younger women, "why all the interest in a guy like me? I'm twice your age (for some, 3x). Why would you be hitting on ME? I got a wide crossection of answers.But as I looked at them, I discovered the common theme. The majority of these young women talked about how disappointed they were with young me.And I realized that we have an entire generation of younger men that have absolutely no clue how to talk to a woman. They know how to respond to an authority figure who is female (or seem to) by treating her like a slightly less aggressive man. They know, or think they know, how to talk to a whore. In this case, I am not necessarily talking about a pro. I mean the girl they classify as a "Hoe". More sexually available, more aggressive and typically more defensive as well. But talking to a woman between those two extremes?? Clueless. Abso-fucking-luetely Clueless. And they have even less of an idea how to treat a lady. We have raised a generation of sexual idiots! And I freely admit that I could be portrayed as having taken advantage of the situation. My new girlfriend is 27.

The women my own age were almost exclusively looking just for sex. Most of them were divorced or widowed, but a pretty fair percentage were married and wished to keep things 'DISCREET' ....not that the younger ranks were devoid of this kind of petitioner.

Also, the "era of the dick pick" might have done those of us who just want to see pictures of naked girls a big favor. A VERY high percentage of these women sent me nudes or partial nudes within the first few minutes of contact. A non-insignificant number sent them to me in their very first message. And a large percentage of them were quite attractive.
...

At the risk that someone will slam what I write as offensive, untrue, or both (this has happened in AH several times before), I have an opinion, but it'll require some explication:

I believe the modern dating situation is much like the one I found myself living as a young man in a big city with roughly twice as many available young women as men, and the young men (and some of the young women) were generally on the fast track to financial goldmines, often as investment bankers. The result was a supply/demand imbalance, with women willing to pursue any man with (at least!) equivalent resources, committed or not, older or not, married or not, often with intent to marry.

The consequence to young men was that they expected this behavior, knowing they could get away with having multiple relationships going at the same time without serious consequence (as long as they were careful about not getting anyone pregnant, because the women could not be trusted about what measures they might be taking, so: condoms, no exceptions).

The consequence to young women is that they believed "all the good men are taken," and any other man they encountered would cheat on her just as he had cheated on other women and would continue to do so. They treated him as such, deserved or not.

The result was a dating death spiral. It didn't take long to figure out that this was not a good environment for me, and I moved away within 2 years without compromising my ideals of fidelity. I hated to hear when any young woman I previously knew moved there.

Note 1: I joined a local dating service there and quickly became their poster boy. They played up my situation as tall, handsome, athletic, newly-arrived, with an income higher than most my age, even there. A video of me describing myself circulated widely, edited to play up the above qualities but not the details of my academic interests or career, which I think their (mostly) female clientele regarded as largely irrelevant. I was contacted by so many young women who thought I fit their profile that I seldom needed to take the initiative (it never worked out when I did), and dated several of them, but with one exception they all seemed to have trust issues with men. I might have gone on to marry that one exception, who lived a little farther from downtown, if I hadn't gotten a new job at a 20% higher salary in another city; she was too traditional to leave her immigrant parents to continue a long-distance relationship. I probably would've been better off if I'd stayed (perhaps she's better off the way things stand), but at that point my career was my focus.

Note 2: A handful of years after my experience in the big city with all the bankers, I got a contract in Silicon Valley, and was astonished at how many drop-dead gorgeous young women I would see in girlfriend relationships with software developers who were largely short, overweight, unkempt, and without social skills -- examples will occasionally surface in my writing. I would see multiple couples with this dynamic sharing large tables at popular restaurants, with the women largely sitting with and interacting with the other women, and the men likewise interacting almost exclusively with each other. At one large corporate HQ that I visited, one would often find a receptionist in a building who was likewise gorgeous (but doubtless extremely competent) serving a building full of overwhelmingly male engineers and their managers (some of whom were female).

Note 3: Lately, in a new city in early semi-retirement, I've been [redacted by author]

I think what we're seeing in today's dating market is largely a national expansion of what I experienced as a younger man, where there's a supply/demand imbalance that results in many young men opting out, many women complaining about the lack of suitable men while remaining open to "trading up" and wanting to "date" the same small pool of "high value" men, thus both sides reinforce the general distrust while their own echo chambers encourage them to divert responsibility.

On the plus side for young men, the reduced pressure to find a partner at a young age opens their opportunity to focus on their career, much as I did (perhaps to my eventual detriment), though many seem to be opting out in other ways as well.

I'm not sure what the plus side is for the modern young woman, unless it is that they feel freer to extend their hookup phase, but for me, as a man who was once their age, I would look at that the same way I view the [redacted by author].

 

[FidelityBoss]

At the risk that someone will slam what I write as offensive, untrue, or both (this has happened in AH several times before), I have an opinion, but it'll require some explication:

I believe the modern dating situation is much like the one I found myself living as a young man in a big city with roughly twice as many available young women as men, and the young men (and some of the young women) were generally on the fast track to financial goldmines, often as investment bankers. The result was a supply/demand imbalance, with women willing to pursue any man with (at least!) equivalent resources, committed or not, older or not, married or not, often with intent to marry.

The consequence to young men was that they expected this behavior, knowing they could get away with having multiple relationships going at the same time without serious consequence (as long as they were careful about not getting anyone pregnant, because the women could not be trusted about what measures they might be taking, so: condoms, no exceptions).

The consequence to young women is that they believed "all the good men are taken," and any other man they encountered would cheat on her just as he had cheated on other women and would continue to do so. They treated him as such, deserved or not.

The result was a dating death spiral. It didn't take long to figure out that this was not a good environment for me, and I moved away within 2 years without compromising my ideals of fidelity. I hated to hear when any young woman I previously knew moved there.

Note 1: I joined a local dating service there and quickly became their poster boy. They played up my situation as tall, handsome, athletic, newly-arrived, with an income higher than most my age, even there. A video of me describing myself circulated widely, edited to play up the above qualities but not the details of my academic interests or career, which I think their (mostly) female clientele regarded as largely irrelevant. I was contacted by so many young women who thought I fit their profile that I seldom needed to take the initiative (it never worked out when I did), and dated several of them, but with one exception they all seemed to have trust issues with men. I might have gone on to marry that one exception, who lived a little farther from downtown, if I hadn't gotten a new job at a 20% higher salary in another city; she was too traditional to leave her immigrant parents to continue a long-distance relationship. I probably would've been better off if I'd stayed (perhaps she's better off the way things stand), but at that point my career was my focus.

Note 2: A handful of years after my experience in the big city with all the bankers, I got a contract in Silicon Valley, and was astonished at how many drop-dead gorgeous young women I would see in girlfriend relationships with software developers who were largely short, overweight, unkempt, and without social skills -- examples will occasionally surface in my writing. I would see multiple couples with this dynamic sharing large tables at popular restaurants, with the women largely sitting with and interacting with the other women, and the men likewise interacting almost exclusively with each other. At one large corporate HQ that I visited, one would often find a receptionist in a building who was likewise gorgeous (but doubtless extremely competent) serving a building full of overwhelmingly male engineers and their managers (some of whom were female).

Note 3: Lately, in a new city in early semi-retirement, I've been [redacted by author]

I think what we're seeing in today's dating market is largely a national expansion of what I experienced as a younger man, where there's a supply/demand imbalance that results in many young men opting out, many women complaining about the lack of suitable men while remaining open to "trading up" and wanting to "date" the same small pool of "high value" men, thus both sides reinforce the general distrust while their own echo chambers encourage them to divert responsibility.

On the plus side for young men, the reduced pressure to find a partner at a young age opens their opportunity to focus on their career, much as I did (perhaps to my eventual detriment), though many seem to be opting out in other ways as well.

I'm not sure what the plus side is for the modern young woman, unless it is that they feel freer to extend their hookup phase, but for me, as a man who was once their age, I would look at that the same way I view the [redacted by author].

That’s an interesting perspective, and it definitely highlights how dating dynamics can shift based on social and economic factors. The supply/demand imbalance you describe does seem to play out in different ways across industries and cities. It’s always fascinating (and sometimes frustrating) how much perception, expectations, and external influences shape the dating experience. Whether things are getting better or worse is up for debate, but it’s clear the landscape is constantly evolving.

 

[lilshymynx]

I'm not saying this is what happened to you, but I have heard that there are some OF models who use sites like this not to find hookups but in an attempt to get you to sign up for their subscription site of choice (onlyfans, fansly, etc). They'll start the conversation like a hookup is possible, but gosh wouldn't you know it she's washing her hair tonight and maybe, before your first date, you'd like to sign up over here for a couple bucks to get a little preview of what the real date might be like!

I hope you find what you're looking for, whatever that is, because we all deserve to be happy.

@Belegon

+1 to what AMD said.

I keep in touch with friends from dating site I was on before I met my wife. According to them, there are tons of professionals that are working the dating/hookup sites as part of their activities, much to the displeasure of people using the site for its 'intended' purpose. On top of that there are also a ton of scammers on the sites. They often don't reveal themselves until you interact with them for a bit, so what appears on the surface to be a great environment full of eager younger women looking for older men is actually just a bunch of people with ulterior motives.

 

[AG31]

Now I'm curious what it was before mod deleted it. LC68 can be pretty snappish but I don't remember him ever getting even a mild slap on the wrist from moderators.

It was a rant about posting about one's personal experiences, as far as I could tell. Not having to do with the specific experiences.

 

[Comshaw]

It was what is sometimes called 'thread whining' on other forums - a generally unhappiness with the nature of the threads the OP was creating but also expressed in such a way which could be read as a (mildish) personal attack.

Me thinks we got us a maybe new but definitely testy and particular mod. That's just my guess about how things have been going recently.

It was a rant about posting about one's personal experiences, as far as I could tell. Not having to do with the specific experiences.

What???? LC ranting?!?! Say it ain't so!!!!


Comshaw

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'm not sure I'd draw too many conclusions about the general state of dating from whichever site you are using.

I'm in my 20s and I don't think any of my friends would even consider someone twice her age, let alone three times. While it is certainly possible my friends are the outliers of "the new normal", I also don't see many couples out in public with those massive age differences.

I'm sure there are exceptions but a 20 plus year age difference is usually the result of gold digging.

 

[Audiflex]

I'm not sure I'd draw too many conclusions about the general state of dating from whichever site you are using.

I'm in my 20s and I don't think any of my friends would even consider someone twice her age, let alone three times. While it is certainly possible my friends are the outliers of "the new normal", I also don't see many couples out in public with those massive age differences.

I'm sure there are exceptions but a 20 plus year age difference is usually the result of gold digging.

Yeah online dating can definitely skew perspectives, it doesn’t always reflect what’s common in real life. While big age gaps exist, they’re not the norm for most people. And let’s be real, sometimes there are other motivations at play in those dynamics.

 

[Escierto]

Yeah online dating can definitely skew perspectives, it doesn’t always reflect what’s common in real life. While big age gaps exist, they’re not the norm for most people. And let’s be real, sometimes there are other motivations at play in those dynamics.

That's the truth.

 

[Belegon]

I definitely think the dynamics are off... and there is no doubt that there are scammers on these sites and I also think there is a lot of AI at work. However, there are some real people out there too.

I'm still seeing the large amounts of initial messages from women I think are entirely too young for me. But I think the average age I'm seeing, at least addressing me, has risen a bit. Not sure if that's a sign of an algorithm at work or just the difference in my perception.
I'm currently staying in communication with 3 women from the primary site I first signed up for. Age gap is still there, but not to the same extreme. I did a little bit of sneaky verification on the 27 yr old who is basically my "girlfriend" at this point. I got her to talk about high school, got her school and last name out of her and verified that a person by that name did graduate in the appropriate year. Moreover, I used my inside info. I got her to give me the name/description of her school bus driver. Having driven in the same county as the high school she graduated from for the last thirteen years, I was able to verify that the person she named is someone I know and that he does drive out of that school. So I do have some independent verification that she is apparently a real person at least. Her affection for me may or may not be genuine. We'll see soon.

The other two women I'm still talking to are age 41 and 50. So less outliers of what I might encounter naturally.

As far as the idea that my interest may or may not match up with my also recent ranting about the dissolving status of my marriage? * shrug* Think what you want. My marriage has been sexless since my heart surgery in 2022 and the woman in question KICKED ME OUT of her home a week before Christmas. To be very blunt, I think kicking a stage 4 cancer patient to the curb a week before Christmas pretty much shatters the "In sickness or in health" part of the wedding vows and is a deal-breaker. Three months beyond that moment, having been accused of being "spiteful" because I quit paying for her adult children's cell phones and her car payment, I really don't see where I could possibly be in the wrong for looking at other options.

That said, I am still getting ten plus responses per day and I would think at least some of them are from real women. And the preponderance of unsolicited nudes continues to be off the scale of what I expected. I do have suspicions about AI in this area as well. An awful lot of women in their fifties and sixties showing what appear to be breasts that defy my experience of how "high and tight" most women's breasts are at after passing the half century mark.

I also had it pointed out that some of the response I am receiving may be due to some of the cultural realities of my residential area. Without trying to be too harsh to my generational brothers, most men my age in this area are overweight and showing their age more than I am. Perhaps the thirty or so pounds cancer has taken from me are helping in this regard, but I also was doing martial arts multiple times a week until Oct. 2023 and this definitely had an effect on my body and fitness.

oh my god, what? Is this a thing now?

I was as surprised as you are, Wanda. and bathroom play is a dealbreaker for me, regardless. Not interested.