What makes a good/worthy sub?

[chy_girl]

Worth:
n. 1. The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable.
adj. 2. Deserving of; meriting

Worthwhile:
adj. 1. Being worth the time or effort spent.

Over the past few weeks the question of worth/goodness has came up. Specifically, what makes a person - a sub - worthwhile?

In general society tends to see worth in things like the ability to perpetuate our species, to provide food and shelter, to contribute to the economy, to support ourselves and our family and the intellectual capacity to advance our communities, societies, and species. There are also other things that sometimes tend to be overlooked as worthy characteristics: honesty, empathy, loyalty, the ability to respect and love others are some example. Which then, to my submissive mind, brings forth the question of what characteristics make a worthy submissive?

Are the characteristics the same? Is it more of one 'worthy' characteristic or less of another? Is there a completely different set of not-entirely-vanilla characteristics a person must posses to qualify as a worthy sub?

In various conversations, in stories and real life, I've seen Doms brag on their subs being obedient, kinky, slutty, liking pain or impact play, being willing to go to an extreme, etc. Nearly all of these things are inherently sexual. Does this mean that a subs worth is based simply on his/her ability to sexually satisfy their Dom? Or are there other characteristics outside of being 'a good little slut' that makes one sub more worthwhile than another.

As I said, this is a question that has been rolling around in my head. It was one of those introspective questions that presented itself quite awhile ago but it simply hasn't been the time to address it. Now is the time.

So I ask you, friends and neighbors on the BDSM block, what is it that makes a good sub? Is it a set of personality characteristics, sexual characteristics, the potential of the person, or is it simply a crapshoot based on how the individual desires of the Dom mesh with individual subs?

And I realize that there will be some variation depending on the person because we're all unique in our tastes and desires, but generally speaking... What makes a good/worthwhile sub?

 

[CutieMouse]

Worth:
n. 1. The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable.
adj. 2. Deserving of; meriting

Worthwhile:
adj. 1. Being worth the time or effort spent.

Over the past few weeks the question of worth/goodness has came up. Specifically, what makes a person - a sub - worthwhile?

<snip>

what characteristics make a worthy submissive?

Interesting question!

[personal opinion disclaimer]

Empathy, self-awareness, attentiveness, intelligence, personal skills (household management, bookkeeping, research assistant, etc), adaptivity, desire and willingness to submit... similar to what one might desire in a "vanilla" relationship, but with the decision maker/decision follower part a little more defined than is commonplace.

Are the characteristics the same? Is it more of one 'worthy' characteristic or less of another? Is there a completely different set of not-entirely-vanilla characteristics a person must posses to qualify as a worthy sub?

I suppose there are skill sets, or maybe a PYL has specific things (such as interst in Golden Showers/etc) they look for, but IMO... not really.

In various conversations, in stories and real life, I've seen Doms brag on their subs being obedient, kinky, slutty, liking pain or impact play, being willing to go to an extreme, etc. Nearly all of these things are inherently sexual. Does this mean that a subs worth is based simply on his/her ability to sexually satisfy their Dom? Or are there other characteristics outside of being 'a good little slut' that makes one sub more worthwhile than another.

I should hope to God my worth is wrapped up in a hell of a lot more than how good of a lay I am. I mean, I'm really really really fun in bed, but it isn't how *I* define my worth... actually, only being valued for something so trivial would probably piss me off to no end.

<snippage>

So I ask you, friends and neighbors on the BDSM block, what is it that makes a good sub? Is it a set of personality characteristics, sexual characteristics, the potential of the person, or is it simply a crapshoot based on how the individual desires of the Dom mesh with individual subs?

A crapshoot (as with any relationship), with a dash of potential mixed in, sprinkled with a bit of personality and topped by a dollop of sexual whipped cream.

And I realize that there will be some variation depending on the person because we're all unique in our tastes and desires, but generally speaking... What makes a good/worthwhile sub?

[/personal opinion disclaimer]

 

[chy_girl]

[personal opinion disclaimer]

Thank you for your opinion, Cutie. It's helped to expand on an ongoing thought process and clarify a few of my own points of thought on the issue.

Now all I have to do is sit back down for further contemplation when more than three brain cells are firing in the same direction.

 

[YourCaptor]

Subs have worth in that I can stretch and flex, and do what ever it is that your captor does, and afterward she'll still be their, happy, in love, etc.

So basically, they don't run when things get weird.

 

[YourCaptor]

Also penis pleasing ability

 

[chy_girl]

Subs have worth in that I can stretch and flex, and do what ever it is that your captor does, and afterward she'll still be their, happy, in love, etc.

So basically, they don't run when things get weird.

Also penis pleasing ability

So a sub's worthiness is merely sexual?

 

[rida]

*snip*
And I realize that there will be some variation depending on the person because we're all unique in our tastes and desires, but generally speaking... What makes a good/worthwhile sub?

If we are talking a sub that is also a life partner, than a lot of the qualities that make a good sub, are the same that make a good girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband. With the added touch of enjoying to serve/defer power/suffer pain/whatnot depending on the specific flavor of their BDSM interaction.

If it is only play partner, or a relationship that is limited in scope and time to only BDSM interaction, than the sexual aspects will weight more in determine the worth of a sub, as you don't really care if she/he can balance a checkbook, or cook a meal or keep the house in order (unless, of course, you are a PYL into house care services as part of the required tasks for your pyl, and you also enjoy using your pyl as your personal secretary).

 

[ownedsubgal]

So a sub's worthiness is merely sexual?

i think YC just described very well how a submissive's worth is NOT merely sexual.

 

[chy_girl]

i think YC just described very well how a submissive's worth is NOT merely sexual.

Then lack of sleep is depriving me of critical reading skills...

 

[ownedsubgal]

Subs have worth in that I can stretch and flex, and do what ever it is that your captor does, and afterward she'll still be their, happy, in love, etc.

i took this to mean that a good submissive will have endurance and strength of will to accept whatever her Dominant demands of her, while still being able to wake up each day with love and joy in her heart. this is something i did not achieve until after nearly 2 years of being a slave...before then it was far too easy for me to simply fall into despair or depression when he pushed me to the limits. being cut off from family or former friends, no longer having money or any possession of my own, not being able to make the simplest decisions for myself, suffering punishment for the slightest mistakes and slip-ups, etc.

our Dominants make many demands of us beyond the physical/sexual realm, so when i read this sex was actually the last thing that occurred to me.

 

[BlushingBeauty]

Then lack of sleep is depriving me of critical reading skills...

Apparently those critical reading skills are lacking for us both. As someone new to the BDSM family YC's post seemed to scream that the "merely sexual" theme was indeed correct yet I suppose they did also hint at the importance of loyalty...

 

[Netzach]

simply a crapshoot based on how the individual desires of the Dom mesh with individual subs?

That.

 

[00Syd]

simply a crapshoot based on how the individual desires of the Dom mesh with individual subs?

That.

Ditto.

 

[jenniferbaby]

If we are talking a sub that is also a life partner, than a lot of the qualities that make a good sub, are the same that make a good girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband. With the added touch of enjoying to serve/defer power/suffer pain/whatnot depending on the specific flavor of their BDSM interaction.

This answer makes a lot of sense to me. Being a worthy sub is no different than being a worthy partner in other contexts. In both vanilla and BDSM situations, the same issues come into play: Can this person give me what I want? Am I happy with this person? Are we compatible? Do we get along? Can we work through our differences or should we part ways?

I do think there is a specific emphasis on a sub's "worthiness" because of the power positions involved in D/s relationships. Long ago, a Dom told me that he wanted to go slow because he wanted to see if I was "worthy of his time." While part of me was thinking "of course I am, how dare he doubt it!", another part of me was deeply aroused.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yep, seems you have already discovered the prevalence of those who love to brag.....and maybe noticed that bragging does not necessarily speak truth or happiness. As to what makes a good / worthy sub? Simple, it is subjective to the person who has chosen to dominate them and had their domination accepted. IOW's, it is an individual thing required by individuals who like everyone have their own preferences, requirements, desires, personalities, not a cookie cutter one size fits all descriptor.

Catalina

 

[midwestyankee]

Before anything else, a submissive within a relationship is a partner in that relationship. Her "worth" in that relationship is as they two of them define it.

What a dominant focuses on when bragging about his partner says a helluva lot more about him than it does about her (genders may be reversed as required) for the most part. If a dominant can only praise his partner for her ability to suck cock or take an hour of heavy impact play, then he is giving the impression that he does not value her for anything else. It's my contention that people rarely speak accidentally; that is, that there usually is meaning in what they say and in what they leave out.

Likewise, a dominant's worth in a relationship is as the two partners define it. Some, apparently, aren't worth the piss they play with.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

In both vanilla and BDSM situations, the same issues come into play: Can this person give me what I want? Am I happy with this person? Are we compatible? Do we get along? Can we work through our differences or should we part ways?

I agree: Why was your best friend in second grade your best friend? Because you thought they were cool, they thought you were cool, and you loved playing the same games.

Oh, and maybe they had some cool toys, too.

 

[YourCaptor]

So a sub's worthiness is merely sexual?

No, the second one was a joke.

I think OSG gets it.

I'll agree with what others have said too, that significant others, and significant other subs share a lot. Primarily I think they have love in common. Love I'll define as forgiving without compensation. Character flaw, love will forgive it just because; did something stupid, love will forgive it just because, etc. Love of course to many is a great deal of worth.

A sub, I think, will not only forgive, but also accept many more of things the dom likes, when compared to the average person.

And I think that sex could seem like the only reason, simply because its a metaphor for all things else.

 

[sb2009]

I agree: Why was your best friend in second grade your best friend? Because you thought they were cool, they thought you were cool, and you loved playing the same games.

Oh, and maybe they had some cool toys, too.

this is pure genious.

 

[callinectes2]

Before anything else, a submissive within a relationship is a partner in that relationship. Her "worth" in that relationship is as they two of them define it.

Likewise, a dominant's worth in a relationship is as the two partners define it. Some, apparently, aren't worth the piss they play with.

Yep, MWY hit it on the head. A D/s or BDSM relationship is just like any other in that when you aren't having sex or playing, you have to enjoy just being with your partner. Even if we were both 100% vanilla, my PYL would still the man I want to be with.

 

[Adakgirl]

I think that we are all worthy, useful and valuable. I also think that we are all deserving of time and effort.

I believe we need to first value ourselves and believe in our own worth, or at least hold a strong believe in our own potential worth, before we can be worthwhile to any Dominant.

 

[chy_girl]

Note: My appologies in advance if this is a bit discombobulated. Every once in a while static flairs up in my brain's wiring that it makes it very difficult to get things from my head to paper, a situation that is exacerbated when it's not totally clear in my head to being with.
~

Understandably, each relationship is going to be different and the chances of having a decent relationship is slim if the parties involved don't hold some form of a positive regard for each other. That's are simply a given in any relationship - personal or professional. But there are characteristics, parts of a persons make up, that make them more apt for certain tasks in life. As an example, someone with tenancies toward mysophobia would not be a good choice for, say, mucking out the cow stalls in a barn. Or someone who has a strong desire to be around people wouldn't do well in a career with very little human interaction. It would seem that the same would also follow for Doms and subs.

Personally, there are certain personality characteristics that a man has to have for me to be willing to sub for him - certain moorings to tie my submissive boat to, so to speak. Men without those characteristics, no matter how attractive they may be as mate material and no matter how fun they might be for a play partner, they are rarely able to flip me from 'yes, Sir, thank you, Sir' to that sub puddle, anything you wish, automatically rolling over to present my proverbial tummy place.

I understand that most of the characteristics that make an effective D/s partner for me will be different form what other people need and desire, as it is with everything in life. But aren't there characteristics or tendencies that would make one person better 'sub material' than another?

 

[R_Falcoln]

The specifics vary by relationship.

In the abstract, I would simply say that the only general statement that can be made is that a sub girl has to be, well, submissive. That term can have many more specific definitions but generally speaking she has to see herself as, in a sense, lesser than her Master or Dom or Husband or Sir or Daddy or whatever it is the Dominant Male half of the relationship is called.

Not lesser as a person. But rather that her will is lesser, and her needs are lesser, that her identity is lesser, that she and her will and her identity are subordinate to His.

A Man who's worth the time of day will meet His little one's needs, will allow her some choices, and will not forcibly rob her of her identity the same way an abused will. But that doesn't mean her needs, her will, her choices, or her identity are as "important" in the relationship as are His.

This generality, however, makes little sense in the abstract. It matters only when it is applied in the context of a relationship, and every relationship is different.

-Mr. Falcoln

Note: My appologies in advance if this is a bit discombobulated. Every once in a while static flairs up in my brain's wiring that it makes it very difficult to get things from my head to paper, a situation that is exacerbated when it's not totally clear in my head to being with.
~

Understandably, each relationship is going to be different and the chances of having a decent relationship is slim if the parties involved don't hold some form of a positive regard for each other. That's are simply a given in any relationship - personal or professional. But there are characteristics, parts of a persons make up, that make them more apt for certain tasks in life. As an example, someone with tenancies toward mysophobia would not be a good choice for, say, mucking out the cow stalls in a barn. Or someone who has a strong desire to be around people wouldn't do well in a career with very little human interaction. It would seem that the same would also follow for Doms and subs.

Personally, there are certain personality characteristics that a man has to have for me to be willing to sub for him - certain moorings to tie my submissive boat to, so to speak. Men without those characteristics, no matter how attractive they may be as mate material and no matter how fun they might be for a play partner, they are rarely able to flip me from 'yes, Sir, thank you, Sir' to that sub puddle, anything you wish, automatically rolling over to present my proverbial tummy place.

I understand that most of the characteristics that make an effective D/s partner for me will be different form what other people need and desire, as it is with everything in life. But aren't there characteristics or tendencies that would make one person better 'sub material' than another?

 

[CutieMouse]

The specifics vary by relationship.

In the abstract, I would simply say that the only general statement that can be made is that a sub girl has to be, well, submissive. That term can have many more specific definitions but generally speaking she has to see herself as, in a sense, lesser than her Master or Dom or Husband or Sir or Daddy or whatever it is the Dominant Male half of the relationship is called.

*raises eyebrow*

Not lesser as a person. But rather that her will is lesser, and her needs are lesser, that her identity is lesser, that she and her will and her identity are subordinate to His.

Um... excuse me?

Simply because I am submissive, my WILL, NEEDS and IDENTITY are LESS than my Lover's? Seriously?

A Man who's worth the time of day will meet His little one's needs, will allow her some choices, and will not forcibly rob her of her identity the same way an abused will. But that doesn't mean her needs, her will, her choices, or her identity are as "important" in the relationship as are His.

This sort of attitude drives me absolutely batty.

Please expound and explain exactly why a pyl's needs, will, choices or identity aren't as important as a PYL's. (pyl = submissive type/PYL = Dominant type)

This generality, however, makes little sense in the abstract. It matters only when it is applied in the context of a relationship, and every relationship is different.

-Mr. Falcoln

 

[jenniferbaby]

I agree: Why was your best friend in second grade your best friend? Because you thought they were cool, they thought you were cool, and you loved playing the same games.

Oh, and maybe they had some cool toys, too.

I bonded with someone the second day in kindergarten over our mutual love of The Cosby Show and mutual knowledge of the current toilet paper commercials. We were good friends for a long time. If only I could make friends so easily nowadays though.

I understand that most of the characteristics that make an effective D/s partner for me will be different form what other people need and desire, as it is with everything in life. But aren't there characteristics or tendencies that would make one person better 'sub material' than another?

I get what you're saying. Analogously, I want to be a librarian and there are lots of characteristics that would make me good for that work. I love books. I love reading. I love talking to people about books. I love libraries. And being around books all day turns me on. This is why I chose to get a degree in library science instead of, say, engineering.

As for what would make me good for the work of being a sub...the ideas here are a lot less fully formed. It's a major reason I keep coming back to Lit and looking at the opinions of others because I'm not sure what I really think. There are some characteristics I can point out, though. I like servicing and pleasing others and doing what they tell me to do. I'm aroused by words like Sir and Master. BDSM stories excite me. I'm attracted to dominant men who like making decisions for me. I carry out both sexual and nonsexual tasks with enjoyment and glee. There are plenty of people who don't possess these characteristics and would not make good subs. These characteristics, along with many others that are harder to list in the concrete, make me deeply enjoy my role as submissive.

I get why you're asking this question, as I've asked it myself occasionally. I've had that debate many times--Am I really submissive? How do I know? Am I doing it the "right" way? There's just something about this sexual interest that begs discussion and analysis, at least for me.