How are you wired?

[unpredictablebijou]

I've been doing a great deal of reading lately on the "mindsets" of Doms and subs, and ran across an interesting set of statements, which purported to describe a number of the motivations of various sorts of submissive "types."

I'm not qualified to talk through "slave" vs. "sub" or any of those specific differentiations, but I've been finding it a very interesting list to discuss with people, both D and s, as a way of communicating how we see various goals and motivations within play.

This isn't an organized or finished list. I'm still tweaking it, and would love to hear things that should be added to it. Perhaps once the whole community has had a go at it, it could become a more formalized assessment tool for understanding the underlying motivations of different kinds of play and different styles.

One thing I found very revealing was for BOTH of us, my *new shiny subbie toy* and myself, to mark the list, with a 0 for 'this is not true for me at all' and 10 for 'this is completely true about me'. So call it a quiz still in the design phase, and maybe we can all detail it out together to make it a really good assessment tool, so that Doms and subs can understand each other better, particularly when they're just coming to know each other initially.

It might be an interesting parallel, since this list is primarily geared toward submissive desires, to make a similar list for Doms, about their motivations. Anyone who wants to try that is welcome to put that in here too.

thanks in advance for your contributions. If nothing else, I like hearing people's stories and ideas about themselves, so by all means come in and talk about where you fall on the various scales.

I'll put the actual list of statements in the next post so it can be more easily copied and pasted without my nattering in the way.

bijou


eta: For anyone interested, here is the link to the essay which gave me the start on the set of statements. I found the essay itself through the Library links here, and once again want to offer gratitude for the excellent setup of those resources.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Where do you fall on these statements?

0 = This is not true of me at all.

10 = This is completely true about me.


Note: I've changed the survey to reflect the suggestions and additions offered by various people, and particular thanks to Rida for much of this revised version.

You might also consider, as you think through some of the statements, whether they apply just within sexual contexts or if they are more a "lifestyle" idea. That is, some people love to feel helpless during sexual play but would not enjoy helplessness or lack of responsibility in other areas of life.

Thanks for playing!

***


I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you.

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit.

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals and pain.
-physically only
-mentally/emotionally only
-both

I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished.
-physically only
-mentally/emotionally only
-both

I don't want to have to take any responsibility, so I want you to control everything.

I want to be so desirable that you have to take complete control of me.

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself.

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel inhuman or worthless.

I want to prove my worth by suffering for you.
-physically only
-mentally/emotionally only
-both


I want us to blend into one person.
-physically only
-mentally/emotionally only
-both


I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things.
-physically only
-mentally/emotionally only
-both

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable.
-physically only
-mentally/emotionally only
-both


I want to serve in any possible capacity as a sexual object

I want to serve you in any possible capacity including house chores

I want to be praised and/or rewarded when I succeed in pleasing or accomplishing a task

I want to be treated as a disposable entity, whose only worth is proportionate to the ability to please/perform a task

I want to feel cherished and cared for

I want to be guided and nurtured into becoming what you want me to be

 

[BiBunny]

Where do you fall on these statements?

0 = This is not true of me at all.

10 = This is completely true about me.

***


I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you.--10

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit.--0

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals and pain.--10

I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished.--0

I don't want to have to take any responsibility, so I want you to control everything.--0

I want to be so desirable that you have to take complete control of me.--0

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself.--4

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel inhuman or worthless.--8

I want to prove my worth by suffering for you.--10

I want us to blend into one person.--2

I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things.--10

Wow, I had no idea I'd have such strong reactions to most of these. My answers are not much of a surprise to me, though. I've always known I'm not much of a "submissive," as such, but more of a masochistic service pet.

I'd be interested in the Dom/me version, too. Do we get an analysis based on our answers, Bijou?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Wow, I had no idea I'd have such strong reactions to most of these. My answers are not much of a surprise to me, though. I've always known I'm not much of a "submissive," as such, but more of a masochistic service pet.

I'd be interested in the Dom/me version, too. Do we get an analysis based on our answers, Bijou?

Heh heh. Oh I'm SO not qualified to analyze anyone. It would be like having Heironymous Bosch as a therapist.

I reacted pretty strongly as well, to some of the statements.

So, do you think there are things that should be added? Or rephrased? I can't imagine this covers every possible basic motivation.

We could indeed start generating some potential statements for dom/mes. I wonder of Homburg's Cock might have a few suggestions... *evil grin*

bj

 

[BiBunny]

Heh heh. Oh I'm SO not qualified to analyze anyone. It would be like having Heironymous Bosch as a therapist.

I reacted pretty strongly as well, to some of the statements.

So, do you think there are things that should be added? Or rephrased? I can't imagine this covers every possible basic motivation.

We could indeed start generating some potential statements for dom/mes. I wonder of Homburg's Cock might have a few suggestions... *evil grin*

bj

Haha, HC would have some very strong beliefs about that, I'm sure.

I think something like "I want to feel helpless and vulnerable" (which doesn't apply to me, but does to many others I know) could possibly be added. I've found that an affirmative answer to that statement usually indicates a much more "submissive" personality than my own. By "submissive" there, I'm referring to someone who actively wants to cede control to another, not someone like me doesn't normally give two hoots in hell most of the time.

Maybe something with a finer point on service, too. "I want to bathe Master" vs. "I want to do Master's laundry" or some such (not a good example, but the best I can do at the moment). Service subs are often lumped together into one category, but there are certainly different types of service subs and different motivations for them. For example, I'll do his laundry if he really wants me to, but I prefer personal service to him, like bathing him, rubbing his feet, brushing his hair, dressing/undressing him, etc.

I'm blabbering, I think.

 

[HarlotMinx]

Where do you fall on these
I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you. - 10

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit. - 8

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals and pain. - 10

I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished. - 0

I don't want to have to take any responsibility, so I want you to control everything. 0 (I disagree that the two are related)

I want to be so desirable that you have to take complete control of me. - 9

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself. - 8

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel inhuman or worthless. - 9 (not worthless or even completely inhuman so much as to feel owned)

I want to prove my worth by suffering for you. - 8

I want us to blend into one person. - 3

I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things. - 7

I don't know, I to some degree disagree with half of most of the questions and strong agree with the other half. Since my mind has little to no reaction to physical pain or pleasure a lot of Moon's play around me revolves around mental play, control, and possession. I crave these things not because I'm worthless or deserve to be punished but simply because I crave that control in my life. Also, I don't think that control takes away from my responsibilities in the least so much as gives her the power to set what they are and how important they should be to me, I have complete autonomy but she's still my guiding force. She sees me quite literally as a pet, not a dog or a cat or even a pony just a human pet. When she talks about setting up a group sex scene for me, she likes to discuss it as "Looking for studs to mate with my little poppet". There's something loving in the relationship for us but also the recognition that she has complete control and that sometimes pets don't know what's best for them or have to have bad habits trained out of them for there own good. I guess in our relationship I want us to be dynamically opposite yet balancing of each other, creating a more stable life for the both of us.

-poppet

 

[CutieMouse]

Haha, HC would have some very strong beliefs about that, I'm sure.

I think something like "I want to feel helpless and vulnerable" (which doesn't apply to me, but does to many others I know) could possibly be added. I've found that an affirmative answer to that statement usually indicates a much more "submissive" personality than my own. By "submissive" there, I'm referring to someone who actively wants to cede control to another, not someone like me doesn't normally give two hoots in hell most of the time.

Maybe something with a finer point on service, too. "I want to bathe Master" vs. "I want to do Master's laundry" or some such (not a good example, but the best I can do at the moment). Service subs are often lumped together into one category, but there are certainly different types of service subs and different motivations for them. For example, I'll do his laundry if he really wants me to, but I prefer personal service to him, like bathing him, rubbing his feet, brushing his hair, dressing/undressing him, etc.

I'm blabbering, I think.

Yeah, reference to service submissive traits seem lacking in the list... and I am so not answering that thing publicly.

*chuckle*

 

[unpredictablebijou]

You're not blabbering. You're helping.

I added the one statement about helplessness already; that makes a lot of sense. And I know that has a particular appeal to a lot of people. I'm not really sure how to phrase the other yet. I certainly understand the aesthetic differences between bathing someone and doing someone's laundry, though. Hmmm. Let's see. Getting to touch someone all over when they're wet and slippery and maybe accidentally seducing them in the process, or sorting through dirty grunders and sneezing over bleach bottles all afternoon?

*tapping forehead* Now which would I prefer?

It's a rough one, that's for sure. *lol*

bj

eta: HM, thanks for that feedback. Would you add or rephrase any of it?

and CM, *grin* yeah, I'm still working on being brave enough to answer it myself in here. Certainly that's not mandatory...

 

[CutieMouse]

and CM, *grin* yeah, I'm still working on being brave enough to answer it myself in here. Certainly that's not mandatory...

Anyone who's paid attention to my posts over the last few years could figure most of it out, anyway; it would be like passing around a CM cheat sheet or something.

 

[fishercat]

Where do you fall on these statements?

0 = This is not true of me at all.

10 = This is completely true about me.

***


I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you. - 6 (Even if they are pleased I'm often still not satisfied with my performance)

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit. - 3 (I don't keep much secret, LOL)

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals and pain. - 2

I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished. - 2 (got a little guilt going on, yeah)

I don't want to have to take any responsibility, so I want you to control everything. - 2

I want to be so desirable that you have to take complete control of me. - 0

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself. - 5

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel inhuman or worthless. - minus 10

I want to prove my worth by suffering for you. - 2

I want us to blend into one person. - seriously?

I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things. - 2

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable. -78

.

Okay, I'm new to real-time submissive stuff, and did come late to the party age-wise. Maybe I haven't confronted some of my inner reasons for doing this yet. But I think it's more like, they want to do stuff to me, I want them to do it to me, all is well with the universe.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Fishercat, your 78 cracked me up.

I'll go ahead and try to be brave here and take my own survey. I'm answering from the mindset I was in back when I played as a sub occasionally. I'm noodling on a series of statements for Doms/Tops, but I don't know. Maybe some Really Experienced Dommy Type should do that in a separate thread or something.

ahem.

bj

Where do you fall on these statements?

0 = This is not true of me at all.

10 = This is completely true about me.

***


I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you. 2

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit. 0

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals and pain. 8

I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished. 0

I don't want to have to take any responsibility, so I want you to control everything. 9

I want to be so desirable that you have to take complete control of me. 9

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself. 10

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel inhuman or worthless. 0

I want to prove my worth by suffering for you. 0

I want us to blend into one person. 8 (but that's from a sort of Tantric model, not a loss-of-individual Will thing.)

I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things. 0

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable. 3

.

 

[HarlotMinx]

I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you.

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit, or don't feel I could without your support.

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals or pain.

I like to feel that I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished.

I want you to control my life and direction. (if a sub/slave is being that because they don't want responsibility... somethings wrong. Though I admit it does happen a lot)

I want to be so desirable that you want to take complete control of me.

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself.

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel objectified.

I want to prove my worth by obeying you.

I want us to blend into one person.

I want us to be too opposite people working together.

I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things.

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable.

 

[chelleb]

Wow, my reactions to those questions were stronger than I had expected (I think someone else said this too, but don't remember who - sorry!).

Not sure yet if I'm brave enough to post my answers though......I tend to be shy and keep to myself, though I wish I didn't.

 

[00Syd]

Where do you fall on these statements?

0 = This is not true of me at all.

10 = This is completely true about me.

***

I want to feel successful by knowing that I've pleased you. -10

I want to be forced to do things I secretly want to do but can't admit. -7ish?

I want to feel stronger and prove myself through enduring ordeals and pain. -8ish?
I'd just like to add here that I'm assuming you mean physical ordeals and pain, but what about mental and emotional ordeals and pain? That applies more for me.

I'm worthless, and I deserve to be punished. -1

I don't want to have to take any responsibility, so I want you to control everything. -3

I want to be so desirable that you have to take complete control of me. -7

I want to be a pure object to you, a toy with which you amuse yourself. -5
I wasn't sure what to put here because sometimes all I want to be is his toy, but there are also times when I don't want that, so I put 5. It would be weird if you put 'I sometimes' in front of all of these, but I dunno, I sort of want that distinction with some of them

I want to be debased, abused, made to feel inhuman or worthless. -3

I want to prove my worth by suffering for you. -5

I want us to blend into one person. -0

I want to prove I love you by doing difficult things. -10

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable. -9

 

[midwestyankee]

Anyone who's paid attention to my posts over the last few years could figure most of it out, anyway; it would be like passing around a CM cheat sheet or something.

But we're all honorable types and would never, ever use a cheat sheet.

 

[BiBunny]

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable.--0

I guess I can answer this one since it was my own addition the the test, LOL. I think I'm in the minority as far as that one goes. I like feeling competent and proud while I'm doing stupid things for his pleasure, I suppose.

 

[midwestyankee]

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable.--0

I guess I can answer this one since it was my own addition the the test, LOL. I think I'm in the minority as far as that one goes. I like feeling competent and proud while I'm doing stupid things for his pleasure, I suppose.

Makes perfect sense to me, but then am I the best source for judging sensible things?

 

[HarlotMinx]

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable.--0

I guess I can answer this one since it was my own addition the the test, LOL. I think I'm in the minority as far as that one goes. I like feeling competent and proud while I'm doing stupid things for his pleasure, I suppose.

I guess that's all in interpretation. I mean I agree with you that that's the state of mind I enjoy as well but I also like being completely helpless and vulnerable to her physically and when it comes to whether I'd say no to her. So I guess I'd like to feel helpless to her decisions while proud and competent that I'm meeting her expectations no matter how stupid they may be.

-poppet

 

[CutieMouse]

But we're all honorable types and would never, ever use a cheat sheet.

*nods quite seriously*

Of course not...

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I'm really enjoying hearing everyone's take on this.

I'm wondering now whether these could be grouped into some vague categories.
What I'm seeing is several bottom-line (dear god what a heinous pun, sorry) motivations that people fall into. Things like:

Service
Relinquishing control/ Helplessness
Punishment/ Redemption
Sensation Play
Challenge/ Ordeal

and so on. Not that everything needs to be codified within an inch of its life, but on the other hand knowing the general aims, desires or philosophy of a playmate is always good.

bj

 

[BiBunny]

I'm really enjoying hearing everyone's take on this.

I'm wondering now whether these could be grouped into some vague categories.
What I'm seeing is several bottom-line (dear god what a heinous pun, sorry) motivations that people fall into. Things like:

Service
Relinquishing control/ Helplessness
Punishment/ Redemption
Sensation Play
Challenge/ Ordeal

and so on. Not that everything needs to be codified within an inch of its life, but on the other hand knowing the general aims, desires or philosophy of a playmate is always good.

bj

I think those are actually really good categories, each of which could be broken down further if someone really had nothing better to do. There's another one that's niggling in the back of my mind right now that I don't really know how to explain. Hell, it might actually fit into one of the ones you've already mentioned.

It's the desire for attention/positive reinforcement. (I have this one in SPADES, so nobody be getting grumpy at me for saying it, ok? ) I know almost everyone wants some, but some of us need more than others. Does that warrant its own category, or can we assume that it's an extention or variation of the Challenge/Ordeal category?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I think those are actually really good categories, each of which could be broken down further if someone really had nothing better to do. There's another one that's niggling in the back of my mind right now that I don't really know how to explain. Hell, it might actually fit into one of the ones you've already mentioned.

It's the desire for attention/positive reinforcement. (I have this one in SPADES, so nobody be getting grumpy at me for saying it, ok? ) I know almost everyone wants some, but some of us need more than others. Does that warrant its own category, or can we assume that it's an extention or variation of the Challenge/Ordeal category?

No, I think that's really in its own category. That list isn't complete by any means.

As a sub, that was certainly an emphasis of mine. Ask me to do anything, but call me sweet pet names, put pillows under my knees, treat me like a kitten, that sort of thing. That may put me in that "fetishy bottom" category, as Homburg so delightfully and derisively put it a while back.

So. Maybe Attention / Reward might be its own section or category? It doesn't assume you're also a pain slut or into ordeal (which I also am, but see it as a slightly separate thing), but it would, for example, indicate that being ignored would be a far worse punishment than, say, a binding and flogging.

Obviously, there's a lot of overlap, but again it's just a way to generate some discussion and knowledge exchange.

bj

 

[fishercat]

I want to feel completely helpless and vulnerable.--0

I guess I can answer this one since it was my own addition the the test, LOL. I think I'm in the minority as far as that one goes. I like feeling competent and proud while I'm doing stupid things for his pleasure, I suppose.

Ah, see, I interpreted this as strictly physical in nature. I discovered just last weekend that I like being restrained, held down, and physically unable to resist. It doesn't make me feel less competent, it does make me feel more trusting.

If I looked at it as helpless and vulnerable in other ways, I'd say minus 78.

 

[fishercat]

I think those are actually really good categories, each of which could be broken down further if someone really had nothing better to do. There's another one that's niggling in the back of my mind right now that I don't really know how to explain. Hell, it might actually fit into one of the ones you've already mentioned.

It's the desire for attention/positive reinforcement. (I have this one in SPADES, so nobody be getting grumpy at me for saying it, ok? ) I know almost everyone wants some, but some of us need more than others. Does that warrant its own category, or can we assume that it's an extention or variation of the Challenge/Ordeal category?

Yeah, I got that attention/positive reinforcement thing too. I'd say plus 25 on that one. what do we get for high scores?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

LOL, well clearly we have to also differentiate between psychological and physical in some areas as well. I'm thinking I have similar tastes - not so much into the mental helplessness, but wayyyyy into being physically restrained and held down and such like.

I must skate, now, just for the evening, but I hope this keeps generating some good exchange. I'm already amazed at how individualized everyone is in their responses. We are all indeed gifted with completely unique wiring.

thanks.

bj

eta:

what do we get for high scores?

Cookies, of course!
http://www.cakesetcinc.com/_images/cookies_gngrsn.jpg